Date: 16/07/2013 18:13:21
From: Aquila
ID: 349512
Subject: Jupiter | Saturn | Neptune - Grand Trine

Tomorrow the 17th there is a grand trine between these 3 planets.
Astrologically it is called a water grand trine because the 3 planets transit the 3 water element zodiac constellations.

Jupiter 4° Cancer | Saturn 4° Scorpio | Neptune 4° Pisces

The planets being at 120° of each other to the ecliptic? I think it is..and will form a perfect triangle.
It’s apparently quite rare.

Anyway, so help from you science gurus, can someone recommend a website that shows/describes the planet/star positions in the sky that I might see from north Queensland?

I’m not sure if I can even see all three planets this time of year tomorrow night (weather permitting)
How do I find out?

Thanks!

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Date: 16/07/2013 18:15:01
From: Boris
ID: 349513
Subject: re: Jupiter | Saturn | Neptune - Grand Trine

heavens above gives you star maps. and the planets of course.

heavens above

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Date: 16/07/2013 18:35:04
From: Angus Prune
ID: 349530
Subject: re: Jupiter | Saturn | Neptune - Grand Trine

Aquila said:


Jupiter 4° Cancer | Saturn 4° Scorpio | Neptune 4° Pisces

Heavens Above puts those all in different constellations to what you quote there…

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Date: 16/07/2013 18:49:14
From: CrazyNeutrino
ID: 349542
Subject: re: Jupiter | Saturn | Neptune - Grand Trine

Angus Prune said:


Aquila said:

Jupiter 4° Cancer | Saturn 4° Scorpio | Neptune 4° Pisces

Heavens Above puts those all in different constellations to what you quote there…

Astronomy is different to astrology

much different

:)

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Date: 16/07/2013 19:21:47
From: Aquila
ID: 349567
Subject: re: Jupiter | Saturn | Neptune - Grand Trine

Ah, ok. I see what you mean.

I was just reading about the “precession of the equinoxes” where the Earth’s equator shifts backward through the zodiacal constellations by about 1° every 72 years.
It looks like these planets are transiting these constellations by about 23° earlier than is represented by the western tropical ephemeris.

thanks

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Date: 16/07/2013 19:45:14
From: sibeen
ID: 349579
Subject: re: Jupiter | Saturn | Neptune - Grand Trine

CrazyNeutrino said:


Angus Prune said:

Aquila said:

Jupiter 4° Cancer | Saturn 4° Scorpio | Neptune 4° Pisces

Heavens Above puts those all in different constellations to what you quote there…

Astronomy is different to astrology

much different

:)

I want a ruling from Cusp about this.

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Date: 16/07/2013 21:34:13
From: PM 2Ring
ID: 349708
Subject: re: Jupiter | Saturn | Neptune - Grand Trine

Aquila said:


Tomorrow the 17th there is a grand trine between these 3 planets.
Astrologically it is called a water grand trine because the 3 planets transit the 3 water element zodiac constellations.

Jupiter 4° Cancer | Saturn 4° Scorpio | Neptune 4° Pisces

The planets being at 120° of each other to the ecliptic? I think it is..and will form a perfect triangle.
It’s apparently quite rare.

There are two main geocentric coordinate systems used in astronomy. The principle system, equatorial coordinates, is basically a projection of terrestrial longitude & latitude onto the celestial sphere. The projection of the Earth’s equator is the celestial equator, the projections of the north & south pole of the Earth are the north & south celestial poles. Thus if you stand at the south pole & look up, the south celestial pole is directly overhead. The celestial equivalent of latitude is called declination, and like terrestrial latitude it’s usually measured in degrees. The celestial equivalent of longitude is called right ascension and it is traditionally measured in hours (24 hours = 1 full circle = 360°).

The other main geocentric system is ecliptic coordinates , which is based on the ecliptic plane, rather than the equatorial plane. The ecliptic plane is the plane of the Earth’s orbit (and hence the plane of the sun’s apparent orbit in Earth’s sky). The coordinates of this system are known as ecliptic longitude and latitude, and they are both measured in degrees. The 0° point of ecliptic longitude is the point on the ecliptic where where the Sun crosses the celestial equator going from the southern celestial hemisphere to the northern celestial hemisphere, which happens on the March equinox.

The major bodies of the solar system (and many of the minor bodies) orbit the Sun in roughly the same plane, so they’re always fairly close to the ecliptic. So it’s convenient to give planetary locations in terms of their ecliptic longitude (and latitude).

Western astrology gives planetary positions in terms of ecliptic longitude, dividing the ecliptic into 12 30° signs; but planetary astronomers use this traditional system as well.

So the figures given above for the positions of Jupiter, Saturn & Neptune are their ecliptic longitudes. So they probably won’t be exactly 120° apart from each other, unless they also all happen to be crossing the ecliptic as well.

Yes, this is a fairly rare event because Neptune has such a long period (around 165 years), and there isn’t a simple relationship between the periods of all 3 bodies. (FWIW, the period of Jupiter is roughly 12 years, and that of Saturn is 29 years). However, the “grand trine” configuration may be approximately repeated a few times over the coming months and years, due to retrograde motion. Remember, the position of a planet on the celestial sphere is not purely determined by the planet’s orbit, it also depends on earth’s orbit, so planets can appear to travel backwards in the sky.

Aquila said:


I’m not sure if I can even see all three planets this time of year tomorrow night (weather permitting)

Well, you can’t see all 3 bodies that are in a grand trine at the same time, unless you have very good x-ray vision, since the Earth will be in the way. :)

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Date: 17/07/2013 15:26:05
From: Aquila
ID: 350103
Subject: re: Jupiter | Saturn | Neptune - Grand Trine

Thanks PM 2Ring, that was very informative. I shall keep this for a reference to re-read as needed so I can understand it better.

I’m familiar with retrograde motion, Pluto, Neptune, Saturn & Mercury are all currently in retrograde motion, with Mercury going direct around the 21st July

So, the Earth rotates on its axis by 15° / hr?
(360° divided by 24hrs)

Is the precession of the equinoxes related to the slowing of Earth’s rotation over time?

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Date: 17/07/2013 15:39:57
From: Aquila
ID: 350104
Subject: re: Jupiter | Saturn | Neptune - Grand Trine

Hmm, I can probably scratch that last question, just looked it up, more commonly referred to as the Earth’s “axial wobble”

I’m still struggling to understand why the planetary transits (including the Sun/Moon), from the perspective of Earth, relative to the background of fixed stars, ie: specific constellations, are different between current actual verifiable positions and say the swiss ephemris planetary positions.

ie: the actual planet transits through the background of star constellations are about 23° earlier than what the swiss ephemeris represents (for year 2013).

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Date: 17/07/2013 17:40:27
From: PM 2Ring
ID: 350151
Subject: re: Jupiter | Saturn | Neptune - Grand Trine

Aquila said:

Thanks PM 2Ring, that was very informative. I shall keep this for a reference to re-read as needed so I can understand it better.

No worries, Aquila.

Aquila said:

So, the Earth rotates on its axis by 15° / hr?
(360° divided by 24hrs)

Pretty much. To be more precise, you have to specify a reference frame. On average, it takes 24 hours for the Earth to rotate once on its axis, with respect to the Sun. The rotation period with respect to the stars is slightly shorter, by almost 4 minutes.

The rotation rate of the Earth is fairly constant (although it is gradually slowing down, primarily due to tidal interaction with the Moon). So the Earth’s sidereal rotation period is fairly constant. Its solar rotation period is not, because Earth’s orbit around the Sun is slightly elliptical, and it moves faster when it’s closer to the Sun, so the apparent daily motion of the Sun is not constant. In other words, the time from one high noon to the next is not exactly 24 hours.

For more details, please see the Wikipedia articles on Sidereal Time and the Equation of Time

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Date: 17/07/2013 17:55:30
From: PM 2Ring
ID: 350153
Subject: re: Jupiter | Saturn | Neptune - Grand Trine

Aquila said:


Hmm, I can probably scratch that last question, just looked it up, more commonly referred to as the Earth’s “axial wobble”

Yes.

Aquila said:


I’m still struggling to understand why the planetary transits (including the Sun/Moon), from the perspective of Earth, relative to the background of fixed stars, ie: specific constellations, are different between current actual verifiable positions and say the swiss ephemris planetary positions.

ie: the actual planet transits through the background of star constellations are about 23° earlier than what the swiss ephemeris represents (for year 2013).

Because of the precession of the equinoxes, the zero point of ecliptic longitude (where the ecliptic crosses the celestial equator) slowly moves backwards with respect to the constellations, taking around 22,400 years to complete a full cycle.

Thousands of years ago, this point was in the constellation of Aries, but now it is near the start of the constellation of Pisces, soon to enter the constellation of Aquarius in a few more decades. But we still call this point the first point of Aries and so the signs of the Zodiac measured from this point are no longer in sync with the constellations.

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Date: 17/07/2013 18:43:42
From: sibeen
ID: 350179
Subject: re: Jupiter | Saturn | Neptune - Grand Trine

PM 2Ring said:


Aquila said:

Hmm, I can probably scratch that last question, just looked it up, more commonly referred to as the Earth’s “axial wobble”

Yes.

Aquila said:


I’m still struggling to understand why the planetary transits (including the Sun/Moon), from the perspective of Earth, relative to the background of fixed stars, ie: specific constellations, are different between current actual verifiable positions and say the swiss ephemris planetary positions.

ie: the actual planet transits through the background of star constellations are about 23° earlier than what the swiss ephemeris represents (for year 2013).

Because of the precession of the equinoxes, the zero point of ecliptic longitude (where the ecliptic crosses the celestial equator) slowly moves backwards with respect to the constellations, taking around 22,400 years to complete a full cycle.

Thousands of years ago, this point was in the constellation of Aries, but now it is near the start of the constellation of Pisces, soon to enter the constellation of Aquarius in a few more decades. But we still call this point the first point of Aries and so the signs of the Zodiac measured from this point are no longer in sync with the constellations.

Hold on, are you telling me that the Fifth Dimension were lying to us all those years ago?

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Date: 17/07/2013 18:51:27
From: PM 2Ring
ID: 350191
Subject: re: Jupiter | Saturn | Neptune - Grand Trine

sibeen said:


PM 2Ring said:

Because of the precession of the equinoxes, the zero point of ecliptic longitude (where the ecliptic crosses the celestial equator) slowly moves backwards with respect to the constellations, taking around 22,400 years to complete a full cycle.

Thousands of years ago, this point was in the constellation of Aries, but now it is near the start of the constellation of Pisces, soon to enter the constellation of Aquarius in a few more decades. But we still call this point the first point of Aries and so the signs of the Zodiac measured from this point are no longer in sync with the constellations.

Hold on, are you telling me that the Fifth Dimension were lying to us all those years ago?

Well, they did say “dawning”… and since these “Ages” last almost 2000 years I guess we can allow a century of overlap.

:)

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Date: 18/07/2013 12:11:49
From: Aquila
ID: 350543
Subject: re: Jupiter | Saturn | Neptune - Grand Trine

Awesome stuff, PM 2Ring

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Date: 18/07/2013 12:13:19
From: roughbarked
ID: 350545
Subject: re: Jupiter | Saturn | Neptune - Grand Trine

Aquila said:


Awesome stuff, PM 2Ring

I have to say, always read PM’s posts. ;)

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