Vandals attack historic trees at Melbourne’s Royal Botanic Gardens
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-21/vandals-attack-historic-trees-at-melbourne-botanic-gardens/4833430
can they repair these trees?
do we need cameras in the gardens?
Complete bastards.
That’s quite a lot of effort to ring-bark a tree that big. I wouldn’t go around expending that sort of effort just for the fun of it. One can only assume it’s a person with a real grudge to bear against the Botanic gardens mob. Can’t imagine someone doing it just because they bored.
party_pants said:
That’s quite a lot of effort to ring-bark a tree that big. I wouldn’t go around expending that sort of effort just for the fun of it. One can only assume it’s a person with a real grudge to bear against the Botanic gardens mob. Can’t imagine someone doing it just because they bored.
more than one person?
Was it interrupting a neighbour’s view?
CrazyNeutrino said:
party_pants said:
That’s quite a lot of effort to ring-bark a tree that big. I wouldn’t go around expending that sort of effort just for the fun of it. One can only assume it’s a person with a real grudge to bear against the Botanic gardens mob. Can’t imagine someone doing it just because they bored.
more than one person?
Could two people have a grudge against such an august body as the Royal Botanical Society?
party_pants said:
Could two people have a grudge against such an august body as the Royal Botanical Society?
Is such an august body actually existed.
If
easy target
background” known to the police, shoplifting, loitering, graffiti, possible assault, complaints of threatening behaviour.
out of curiosity
how easy would it be to say, create an artificial skin or bark for a tree, that has been damaged?
has it been done before?
CrazyNeutrino said:
out of curiosity
how easy would it be to say, create an artificial skin or bark for a tree, that has been damaged?
has it been done before?
Not easy at all. Google vascular cambium (http://dendro.cnre.vt.edu/forsite/tait2.htm). Thisparticular tree (a tree of historical significance to Euopean colonies and the local aborginal groups) had been attacked in 2010, and they have managed to save it because of incomplete ringbarking, the use of a hessian collar and using orthe redgum grafts. A recent Gardening Australia story covered the recovery. I think the vandals went further this time to finally kill the tree.
RBGM has been hit recently and over the years.
http://www.abc.net.au/gardening/stories/s3752752.htm
Fact Sheet: Fighting for Survival
Angus visits a historic tree to find out how it’s recovering after it was ringbarked
In Melbourne’s Royal Botanic Gardens stands a 300 year old River Red Gum, known as the Separation Tree.
It was planted as a symbol of the authorised separation of the Colony of Victoria in 1850.
But in 2010 the tree was attacked and ringbarked.
As ABC News reported at the time, “Victorian police are investigating an attack on one of Australia’s most significant trees – the Separation Tree in Melbourne’s Royal Botanic Gardens. Police believe vandals used an axe to ringbark a 40cm strip around the trunk.”
Since the ringbarking, the staff at the Royal Botanic Gardens have been trying to save it. Jim Shugg is the arborist in charge.
“Now, how common are River Red Gums (Eucalyptus camaldulensis) of this age around Melbourne now?” Angus asked him.
“Well, they’re pretty rare,” replied Jim. “We’ve got a couple – two or three here in the gardens and there’s a few around inner Melbourne as well.” River Red Gums normally live for many centuries,” said Jim, “Up to 1000 years or more. It’s amazing.
Asked Angus, “What does ringbarking do to the functioning of the tree?”
“What it can do is interrupt the trees vascular system. This tree is trying to pump up water and nutrients from the ground up into the canopy and it’s also trying to shift sugars from the canopy down into the root system and when you do this to a tree – as soon as you take that bark off and sever that vascular system, you’re interfering with that transmission or translocation,” said Jim.
“So, fortunately, whoever ringbarked it, didn’t quite get through all of it. You’ve still got this narrow strip,” noted Angus.
more on link
so any form of an artificial skin would need to include that vascular system
neomyrtus_ said:
Angus visits a historic tree to find out how it’s recovering after it was ringbarked
In Melbourne’s Royal Botanic Gardens stands a 300 year old River Red Gum, known as the Separation Tree.It was planted as a symbol of the authorised separation of the Colony of Victoria in 1850.
But in 2010 the tree was attacked and ringbarked.
How can a 300 year old tree have been planted 160 years ago?
I haven’t spent enough time in Melbourne to get to the Botanic gardens. Therefore I don;t know the tree or its site. It is hard to imagine what motivates people to ringbark such old trees. It is no mean feat swinging an axe on that angle all the way around that circumference. The likelyhood of the axe bouncing into a shinbone is quite high. Events like this make me more suspicious of conspiracy than the missiles at airliners things. Mainly because there is a history of people killing trees in cities because they want the view or because they believe the property value will increase if they get rid of that bloody big tree in the way. Some people hate trees of significance like say the tree of knowledge. I’ve seen kids hack away at trees to build cubby houses and the like but to seriously and deliberately ringbark big trees like these redgums in Melbourne seems a bit beyond your average teen vandal act.
Such a thing is a long way off. It is more than just a twin layer of plastic foam. There’s a lot more to grafting than that.
They could probably cut it off above the ring barking , paint it with cutting mix and pop it into some potting mix. Probably need a crane though.
Skunkworks said:
They could probably cut it off above the ring barking , paint it with cutting mix and pop it into some potting mix. Probably need a crane though.
Waste of time and money.
roughbarked said:
Skunkworks said:
They could probably cut it off above the ring barking , paint it with cutting mix and pop it into some potting mix. Probably need a crane though.Waste of time and money.
I didnt think I needed to add a TIC but it seems I do.
neomyrtus_ said:
http://www.abc.net.au/gardening/stories/s3752752.htmFact Sheet: Fighting for Survival
Angus visits a historic tree to find out how it’s recovering after it was ringbarked
In Melbourne’s Royal Botanic Gardens stands a 300 year old River Red Gum, known as the Separation Tree.It was planted as a symbol of the authorised separation of the Colony of Victoria in 1850.
But in 2010 the tree was attacked and ringbarked.As ABC News reported at the time, “Victorian police are investigating an attack on one of Australia’s most significant trees – the Separation Tree in Melbourne’s Royal Botanic Gardens. Police believe vandals used an axe to ringbark a 40cm strip around the trunk.”
Since the ringbarking, the staff at the Royal Botanic Gardens have been trying to save it. Jim Shugg is the arborist in charge.
“Now, how common are River Red Gums (Eucalyptus camaldulensis) of this age around Melbourne now?” Angus asked him.
“Well, they’re pretty rare,” replied Jim. “We’ve got a couple – two or three here in the gardens and there’s a few around inner Melbourne as well.” River Red Gums normally live for many centuries,” said Jim, “Up to 1000 years or more. It’s amazing.
Asked Angus, “What does ringbarking do to the functioning of the tree?”
“What it can do is interrupt the trees vascular system. This tree is trying to pump up water and nutrients from the ground up into the canopy and it’s also trying to shift sugars from the canopy down into the root system and when you do this to a tree – as soon as you take that bark off and sever that vascular system, you’re interfering with that transmission or translocation,” said Jim.“So, fortunately, whoever ringbarked it, didn’t quite get through all of it. You’ve still got this narrow strip,” noted Angus.
more on link
Witty Rejoinder said:
neomyrtus_ said:Angus visits a historic tree to find out how it’s recovering after it was ringbarked
In Melbourne’s Royal Botanic Gardens stands a 300 year old River Red Gum, known as the Separation Tree.It was planted as a symbol of the authorised separation of the Colony of Victoria in 1850.
But in 2010 the tree was attacked and ringbarked.How can a 300 year old tree have been planted 160 years ago?
Because it wasn’t planted 160 yars ago.
from wiki: the prominent Separation Tree, a 300-year-old River Red Gum, under which Victoria was declared a separate colony.Skunkworks said:
roughbarked said:
Skunkworks said:
They could probably cut it off above the ring barking , paint it with cutting mix and pop it into some potting mix. Probably need a crane though.Waste of time and money.
I didnt think I needed to add a TIC but it seems I do.
You didn’t. I knew you couldn’t have been serious but I didn’t at the joke to extend beyond a couple of posts.
roughbarked said:
I haven’t spent enough time in Melbourne to get to the Botanic gardens. Therefore I don;t know the tree or its site. It is hard to imagine what motivates people to ringbark such old trees. It is no mean feat swinging an axe on that angle all the way around that circumference. The likelyhood of the axe bouncing into a shinbone is quite high. Events like this make me more suspicious of conspiracy than the missiles at airliners things. Mainly because there is a history of people killing trees in cities because they want the view or because they believe the property value will increase if they get rid of that bloody big tree in the way. Some people hate trees of significance like say the tree of knowledge. I’ve seen kids hack away at trees to build cubby houses and the like but to seriously and deliberately ringbark big trees like these redgums in Melbourne seems a bit beyond your average teen vandal act.
We could look at Google street view, to determine if views are being obscured, but hard to pinpoin,t if it takes in multiple houses, high apartments etc
An eye for an eye.
Once the perp is revealed, he/she should be tied to a post and axes handed out to the spectators.
In the past I have seen packing and skirting put around ringbarked trees to save the trees.
monkey skipper said:
In the past I have seen packing and skirting put around ringbarked trees to save the trees.
They still need sap flow and that isn’t going to happen for years so the only answer is bridging grafts if you want to save the top. This is the most difficult method of grafting successfully..
In some instances the tree may regenerate from the roots but in general unless the shoots are there assistance needs to come from elsewhere. ie: planting seedlings around base and grafting these to the doomed top. This method is a last ditch measure as the young seedlings really need to have been planted at least three years beforehand to be able to do the job.
neomyrtus_ said:
CrazyNeutrino said:out of curiosity
how easy would it be to say, create an artificial skin or bark for a tree, that has been damaged?
has it been done before?
Not easy at all. Google vascular cambium (http://dendro.cnre.vt.edu/forsite/tait2.htm). Thisparticular tree (a tree of historical significance to Euopean colonies and the local aborginal groups) had been attacked in 2010, and they have managed to save it because of incomplete ringbarking, the use of a hessian collar and using orthe redgum grafts. A recent Gardening Australia story covered the recovery. I think the vandals went further this time to finally kill the tree.
RBGM has been hit recently and over the years.
Those grafts are interesting. I asked here a couple of months ago about a few giant Sydney Blue Gums in Wollemi NP which had had similar damage inflicted. I reported the damage to the NPWS, but they said they were too busy doing burn-offs to do anything about it for a while. Obviously, the sooner this surgery is completed the better, but how long is too long?
Speedy said:
Those grafts are interesting. I asked here a couple of months ago about a few giant Sydney Blue Gums in Wollemi NP which had had similar damage inflicted. I reported the damage to the NPWS, but they said they were too busy doing burn-offs to do anything about it for a while. Obviously, the sooner this surgery is completed the better, but how long is too long?
Pretty much immediately. In one day a large tree can use thousands of litres of water. Can also lose thousands of litres if disconnected from root system. Dessication is the enemy.
morrie said:
neomyrtus_ said:
CrazyNeutrino said:out of curiosity
how easy would it be to say, create an artificial skin or bark for a tree, that has been damaged?
has it been done before?
Not easy at all. Google vascular cambium (http://dendro.cnre.vt.edu/forsite/tait2.htm). Thisparticular tree (a tree of historical significance to Euopean colonies and the local aborginal groups) had been attacked in 2010, and they have managed to save it because of incomplete ringbarking, the use of a hessian collar and using orthe redgum grafts. A recent Gardening Australia story covered the recovery. I think the vandals went further this time to finally kill the tree.
RBGM has been hit recently and over the years.
Here is a picture of such an attempt. This is reported to have worked. The tree was a Davidsonia. In this case the ringbarking also induced suckers.
morrie said:
morrie said:
neomyrtus_ said:Not easy at all. Google vascular cambium (http://dendro.cnre.vt.edu/forsite/tait2.htm). Thisparticular tree (a tree of historical significance to Euopean colonies and the local aborginal groups) had been attacked in 2010, and they have managed to save it because of incomplete ringbarking, the use of a hessian collar and using orthe redgum grafts. A recent Gardening Australia story covered the recovery. I think the vandals went further this time to finally kill the tree.
RBGM has been hit recently and over the years.
Here is a picture of such an attempt. This is reported to have worked. The tree was a Davidsonia. In this case the ringbarking also induced suckers.
I stand corrected. Apparently, the grafts didn’t work in the long run. The trees did re-sprout and sucker however.
Thanks for saving me the footwork. I was going to do it but Flickr makes doing anything a nightmare. Yes. Kathy told me ages past that the grafts failed because I did ask. Yes. the tree survived by throwing suckers.
roughbarked said:
morrie said:
morrie said:Here is a picture of such an attempt. This is reported to have worked. The tree was a Davidsonia. In this case the ringbarking also induced suckers.
I stand corrected. Apparently, the grafts didn’t work in the long run. The trees did re-sprout and sucker however.Thanks for saving me the footwork. I was going to do it but Flickr makes doing anything a nightmare. Yes. Kathy told me ages past that the grafts failed because I did ask. Yes. the tree survived by throwing suckers.
Now.. If you want me to explain why they failed, I can have a go because this is the sort of thing I’ve been doing for 40 years. In the photo you can see that the grafts have been executed with old growth wood.
roughbarked said:
roughbarked said:
morrie said:I stand corrected. Apparently, the grafts didn’t work in the long run. The trees did re-sprout and sucker however.
Thanks for saving me the footwork. I was going to do it but Flickr makes doing anything a nightmare. Yes. Kathy told me ages past that the grafts failed because I did ask. Yes. the tree survived by throwing suckers.
Now.. If you want me to explain why they failed, I can have a go because this is the sort of thing I’ve been doing for 40 years. In the photo you can see that the grafts have been executed with old growth wood.
The main issue was the length of time between when it was cut and when it was discovered, then the length of time getting someone to come and graft the tree. Kathy did try as best as could be in the situations but this demonstrates what I mean when I say that dessication is the enemy. It is a race against time.
Any graft will take up to a week, in spring, to actually connect enough to allow any sap flow. The whole process of healing will take up to six weeks. The top of the tree will be long dead by then. For bridging bark grafts to have a chance of success, the conditions need to be sauch:
roughbarked said:
roughbarked said:
roughbarked said:Thanks for saving me the footwork. I was going to do it but Flickr makes doing anything a nightmare. Yes. Kathy told me ages past that the grafts failed because I did ask. Yes. the tree survived by throwing suckers.
Now.. If you want me to explain why they failed, I can have a go because this is the sort of thing I’ve been doing for 40 years. In the photo you can see that the grafts have been executed with old growth wood.
The main issue was the length of time between when it was cut and when it was discovered, then the length of time getting someone to come and graft the tree. Kathy did try as best as could be in the situations but this demonstrates what I mean when I say that dessication is the enemy. It is a race against time.
Any graft will take up to a week, in spring, to actually connect enough to allow any sap flow. The whole process of healing will take up to six weeks. The top of the tree will be long dead by then. For bridging bark grafts to have a chance of success, the conditions need to be sauch:
- As soon as possible after damage
- Best not to consider it unless there is still some part of the cambium intact.
- Best to use this season’s growth as that is where all the auxins are.
morrie said:
roughbarked said:
roughbarked said:Now.. If you want me to explain why they failed, I can have a go because this is the sort of thing I’ve been doing for 40 years. In the photo you can see that the grafts have been executed with old growth wood.
The main issue was the length of time between when it was cut and when it was discovered, then the length of time getting someone to come and graft the tree. Kathy did try as best as could be in the situations but this demonstrates what I mean when I say that dessication is the enemy. It is a race against time.
Any graft will take up to a week, in spring, to actually connect enough to allow any sap flow. The whole process of healing will take up to six weeks. The top of the tree will be long dead by then. For bridging bark grafts to have a chance of success, the conditions need to be sauch:
- As soon as possible after damage
- Best not to consider it unless there is still some part of the cambium intact.
- Best to use this season’s growth as that is where all the auxins are.
Thanks rb
There is also that if there are suckers or shoots below the damage then the tree is likely to survive. All that needs to be done is to supply those shoots with the requirements to grow and return the health to the pumps that are the root system. The first aspect if this is the case, is to actually remove the ringbarked top to provide light for active growth, to provide mulch to stop the soil drying in the new light, to keep the water supply at optimum levels and to provide some nutrition to bolster the growth.
CrazyNeutrino said:
We could look at Google street view, to determine if views are being obscured, but hard to pinpoin,t if it takes in multiple houses, high apartments etc
I saw the result of civil vandalism in Wollongong where a large tree on public property was poisoned, which “improved” the view of several properties/units. The council erected a large sign (big enough to obstruct the view of the units) to replace the tree, informing park goers that there used to be a tree there.
I was told the council also placed a caveat on the sale of the properties that benefited from the tree’s removal, where a large sum of money was to be paid to the council upon sale of the property, pending the successful arrest of the person responsible.
roughbarked said:
morrie said:
roughbarked said:The main issue was the length of time between when it was cut and when it was discovered, then the length of time getting someone to come and graft the tree. Kathy did try as best as could be in the situations but this demonstrates what I mean when I say that dessication is the enemy. It is a race against time.
Any graft will take up to a week, in spring, to actually connect enough to allow any sap flow. The whole process of healing will take up to six weeks. The top of the tree will be long dead by then. For bridging bark grafts to have a chance of success, the conditions need to be sauch:
- As soon as possible after damage
- Best not to consider it unless there is still some part of the cambium intact.
- Best to use this season’s growth as that is where all the auxins are.
Thanks rbThere is also that if there are suckers or shoots below the damage then the tree is likely to survive. All that needs to be done is to supply those shoots with the requirements to grow and return the health to the pumps that are the root system. The first aspect if this is the case, is to actually remove the ringbarked top to provide light for active growth, to provide mulch to stop the soil drying in the new light, to keep the water supply at optimum levels and to provide some nutrition to bolster the growth.
It is a mistake to apply rapid release fertilizers such as are used for growth as these will impair the callus growth. Phosphorous and Nitrogen are required for growth but will interfere with callusing. Best that none of such fertilisers are applied within 2 weeks before and two weeks after a graft is performed. Natural slow release fertilisers are not such of a problem.
Carmen_Sandiego said:
CrazyNeutrino said:We could look at Google street view, to determine if views are being obscured, but hard to pinpoin,t if it takes in multiple houses, high apartments etc
I saw the result of civil vandalism in Wollongong where a large tree on public property was poisoned, which “improved” the view of several properties/units. The council erected a large sign (big enough to obstruct the view of the units) to replace the tree, informing park goers that there used to be a tree there.
I was told the council also placed a caveat on the sale of the properties that benefited from the tree’s removal, where a large sum of money was to be paid to the council upon sale of the property, pending the successful arrest of the person responsible.
All that was shown on ABC TV for anyone who was interested.
Anyway. I have pointed out that ringbarking such large trees is the job for an experienced professional. It cannot be an anarchistic vandal attack. It is a pre-planned event done by peiople who either were paid to do the work or by people braving all ots to triple the property value by adding a view.. the term; a view, is something that needs to be interpreted since to many the view that is desirable, could be the tree itself. To others an uninterrupted expanse of nothing, is a view.
roughbarked said:
Anyway. I have pointed out that ringbarking such large trees is the job for an experienced professional. It cannot be an anarchistic vandal attack. It is a pre-planned event done by peiople who either were paid to do the work or by people braving all ots to triple the property value by adding a view.. the term; a view, is something that needs to be interpreted since to many the view that is desirable, could be the tree itself. To others an uninterrupted expanse of nothing, is a view.
Typos abound.. grr.. need a new keyboard cover so I can see the keys.
roughbarked said:
Anyway. I have pointed out that ringbarking such large trees is the job for an experienced professional. It cannot be an anarchistic vandal attack. It is a pre-planned event done by peiople who either were paid to do the work or by people braving all ots to triple the property value by adding a view.. the term; a view, is something that needs to be interpreted since to many the view that is desirable, could be the tree itself. To others an uninterrupted expanse of nothing, is a view.
Indeed. A friend bought a house for its lovely views at Dalmey NSW back in the ’70’s. Those views have slowly been spoiled with the ring-barking of the large spotted gum trees along the edge of the lake. Now, by comparison, it is featureless and uninteresting. Better views were to be had between the gums’ foliage, he says. Worse still, the local council has seen it fit to erect a road improvements-type advertising sign directly in his line of view, spoiling it further. It is a shame when the wrong properties are targeted, but I can see why this is necessary in saving the few remaining trees.
Speedy said:
roughbarked said:
Anyway. I have pointed out that ringbarking such large trees is the job for an experienced professional. It cannot be an anarchistic vandal attack. It is a pre-planned event done by peiople who either were paid to do the work or by people braving all ots to triple the property value by adding a view.. the term; a view, is something that needs to be interpreted since to many the view that is desirable, could be the tree itself. To others an uninterrupted expanse of nothing, is a view.
Indeed. A friend bought a house for its lovely views at Dalmey NSW back in the ’70’s. Those views have slowly been spoiled with the ring-barking of the large spotted gum trees along the edge of the lake. Now, by comparison, it is featureless and uninteresting. Better views were to be had between the gums’ foliage, he says. Worse still, the local council has seen it fit to erect a road improvements-type advertising sign directly in his line of view, spoiling it further. It is a shame when the wrong properties are targeted, but I can see why this is necessary in saving the few remaining trees.
Most people at some level of their consciousness innately know that trees are an integral part of their actual survival. Without the tree there would be no shade, no habitat, nothing.
roughbarked said:
Speedy said:
roughbarked said:
Anyway. I have pointed out that ringbarking such large trees is the job for an experienced professional. It cannot be an anarchistic vandal attack. It is a pre-planned event done by peiople who either were paid to do the work or by people braving all ots to triple the property value by adding a view.. the term; a view, is something that needs to be interpreted since to many the view that is desirable, could be the tree itself. To others an uninterrupted expanse of nothing, is a view.
Indeed. A friend bought a house for its lovely views at Dalmey NSW back in the ’70’s. Those views have slowly been spoiled with the ring-barking of the large spotted gum trees along the edge of the lake. Now, by comparison, it is featureless and uninteresting. Better views were to be had between the gums’ foliage, he says. Worse still, the local council has seen it fit to erect a road improvements-type advertising sign directly in his line of view, spoiling it further. It is a shame when the wrong properties are targeted, but I can see why this is necessary in saving the few remaining trees.
Most people at some level of their consciousness innately know that trees are an integral part of their actual survival. Without the tree there would be no shade, no habitat, nothing.
usually they move the one big tree so they can see all the other trees in the distance…
Arts said:
roughbarked said:
Speedy said:Indeed. A friend bought a house for its lovely views at Dalmey NSW back in the ’70’s. Those views have slowly been spoiled with the ring-barking of the large spotted gum trees along the edge of the lake. Now, by comparison, it is featureless and uninteresting. Better views were to be had between the gums’ foliage, he says. Worse still, the local council has seen it fit to erect a road improvements-type advertising sign directly in his line of view, spoiling it further. It is a shame when the wrong properties are targeted, but I can see why this is necessary in saving the few remaining trees.
Most people at some level of their consciousness innately know that trees are an integral part of their actual survival. Without the tree there would be no shade, no habitat, nothing.
usually they move the one big tree so they can see all the other trees in the distance…
A tree too faraway.
I have a house in a beach-side suburb, with a tree-filled park between it and the beach. I quite like the view – downstairs you get the view of the water between the trunks, upstairs you get the view of the pines.
I am surprised at the number of visitors who display sympathy that the trees “spoil the view”, not realising that the trees are the view. They also greatly reduce the ocean winds.
Carmen_Sandiego said:
I have a house in a beach-side suburb, with a tree-filled park between it and the beach. I quite like the view – downstairs you get the view of the water between the trunks, upstairs you get the view of the pines.
I am surprised at the number of visitors who display sympathy that the trees “spoil the view”, not realising that the trees are the view. They also greatly reduce the ocean winds.
they are great at wind breaks and yes, more people should realize trees are a view
also the average color of trees and shrubs can relax people, a lot of people living in cities don’t know that, which is a pity
CrazyNeutrino said:
Carmen_Sandiego said:I have a house in a beach-side suburb, with a tree-filled park between it and the beach. I quite like the view – downstairs you get the view of the water between the trunks, upstairs you get the view of the pines.
I am surprised at the number of visitors who display sympathy that the trees “spoil the view”, not realising that the trees are the view. They also greatly reduce the ocean winds.
they are great at wind breaks and yes, more people should realize trees are a view
also the average color of trees and shrubs can relax people, a lot of people living in cities don’t know that, which is a pity
of course it is even more than all that. Not only are trees the view and relax people to look at, they also relax people to be with. Not only are the subtle stirrings of sounds of breezes and the scuttlings and flappings of the many visitors without whom life would be rather dull. but it is also true that trees clean the air nearby then perfume it with the emnations of the process.