G’day, last November I was diagnosed with gallstones, after a second painfull episode, the doctor sent me for an ultrasound. There are about 5 floating around the gallbladder, ranging in size from 4-8mm approx.

So, apart from some painfull attacks that have been self managed with prescribed painkillers I’ve had 7 trips to ER at the local since last year. Where it seemed only morphine could do anything for the pain.
Last Sunday I had a really bad attack (3rd in five days) which ended with a 3 day stop over in hospital, the doctor believes I may have passed a stone which was temporarily obstructing the biliary tract.
Horrendous pain!!!..seriously…. vomiting. I also went a little jaundice.

Finally I have an appointment with the surgeon in September to chart a course of action.

What I would appreciate is if anyone here has had direct experience with this and had their gallbladder removed, or a close family member with this issue, if you could offer your thoughts and experience…thanks.

*I don’t fit the ‘standard’ criteria for gallstones, other than age, just unlucky apparently.

My brother came back from his gap-year bright orange. Went from airport straight to hosp, he had it out the next day. Since then, nil abdo pain and can eat normally without unpleasant side effects…

Had what out … a stone or the bladder?

dv said:

Had what out … a stone or the bladder?

Whole gallbladder. Had a bunch of stones in it. He’d been pretty crook during the year and had lots of adhesions even though it was his first abdo surgery evah.

OCDC said:

My brother came back from his gap-year bright orange. Went from airport straight to hosp, he had it out the next day. Since then, nil abdo pain and can eat normally without unpleasant side effects…

Thanks, OCDC.
The public system is slow. I guess. I’ve had this issue since last November and I finally get an appointment with the surgeon this September, then another 4-6 weeks before actual surgeory.
He also said this week that they don’t like to remove the gallbladder just after an episode like this
Did your brother have private health cover?

Aquila said:

OCDC said:

My brother came back from his gap-year bright orange. Went from airport straight to hosp, he had it out the next day. Since then, nil abdo pain and can eat normally without unpleasant side effects…

Thanks, OCDC.
The public system is slow. I guess. I’ve had this issue since last November and I finally get an appointment with the surgeon this September, then another 4-6 weeks before actual surgeory.
He also said this week that they don’t like to remove the gallbladder just after an episode like this
Did your brother have private health cover?

He does. However, public or private, you either need to remove it within the first few days of the start of an acute episode, or wait at least a month after it’s completely resolved. (Otherwise there’s a risk of it rupturing intra-operatively, and a much higher risk of post-op complications.)

It’s nice to know your brother is pain free and go go back to a normal healthy diet.
I’m a bit nervous about it at the moment.

/

Do you know if he had Laparoscopic cholecystectomy or open surgery?

Surgeon/Doc requested I have an MRI while in hospital also, so he could look for any complications.?
Geez, those MRI’s are horrible.

They must pump a crap load of current through those coils to generate such a strong magnetic field.

He had a lap chole, but it was a tricky one. Because it was during an episode there was a lot of gunk and he ended up needing a drain for a few days.

I havent seen an elective chole need a drain for more than 24 hours.

Waiting for it that morning, he was googling away, finding complications and horror stories and wasn’t far from leaving. Afterwards he thanked mum for convincing him to stay…

OCDC said:

Waiting for it that morning, he was googling away, finding complications and horror stories and wasn’t far from leaving. Afterwards he thanked mum for convincing him to stay…

Nods.

Cheers OCDC.
Do you work in the medical field, sounds like you have some specific knowledge?

Aquila said:

OCDC said:

Waiting for it that morning, he was googling away, finding complications and horror stories and wasn’t far from leaving. Afterwards he thanked mum for convincing him to stay…

Nods.

Cheers OCDC.
Do you work in the medical field, sounds like you have some specific knowledge?

I’m a doktar. Pacifically, medical registrar.

Aquila said:

OCDC said:

Waiting for it that morning, he was googling away, finding complications and horror stories and wasn’t far from leaving. Afterwards he thanked mum for convincing him to stay…

Nods.

Cheers OCDC.
Do you work in the medical field, sounds like you have some specific knowledge?

Bwahahahaha… No

You may know me as Alex (Everything).

OCDC said:

You may know me as Alex (Everything).

Ah. ok.

)

I know that pain.. I’ve had three experiences – all when I was 30= weeks pregnant.. I’ll take labour ‘pain’ over the gall bladder one any day.

I just radically changed my diet.. cut out all fats I could for the next ten weeks (because an -ectomy wasn’t an option, obviously) and have pretty much kept that diet since (child is now almost 6)…
no problems since..

• 30+

Arts said:

I know that pain.. I’ve had three experiences – all when I was 30= weeks pregnant.. I’ll take labour ‘pain’ over the gall bladder one any day.

I just radically changed my diet.. cut out all fats I could for the next ten weeks (because an -ectomy wasn’t an option, obviously) and have pretty much kept that diet since (child is now almost 6)…
no problems since..

Damn. Glad all went well with your pregnancy.
Thanks for some validation regarding pain level, Arts. I have wondered if some people believed me when I tried to describe the level of pain involved.

Although, there are some fats in my diet, I have always been a healthy eater. My liver is healthy and I don’t drink much alcohol and I have a lean body mass.
I’m keeping a log of episodes and they can occur regardless of meals type, have even occured on an empty stomach. (there is no specific trigger or time of day)

The attacks seems to occur in cycles between 10 to 15 days, often in pairs, with two occuring within a couple of days of each other.
24 attacks over 248 days.

(

Aquila, I was admitted to the Royal Melbourne Hospital (a public hospital) at the end of May – through the ED – with pancreatitis caused by a gallstone blocking the pancreatic duct. I know about the pain – at one point the nurse asked my rate the pain out of 10, and I said, in all seriousness, 20. It settled down after about 4 days, during which time they’d done sonographs, NMRs, CT scans, and one or two other things. My gall bladder was full of small stones (up to about 5mm diameter), but the one blocking the pancreatic duct was gone. After it all settled down they took my gall bladder out (laparoscopically). I asked my dietitian what changes I’d need to make to my diet, but she said it’s extremely rare for anyone to need to change at all, and I wouldn’t need to change.

Since then, everything’s been fine. None of the pain, and no digestion problems at all.

Aquila said:

Arts said:

I know that pain.. I’ve had three experiences – all when I was 30= weeks pregnant.. I’ll take labour ‘pain’ over the gall bladder one any day.

I just radically changed my diet.. cut out all fats I could for the next ten weeks (because an -ectomy wasn’t an option, obviously) and have pretty much kept that diet since (child is now almost 6)…
no problems since..

Damn. Glad all went well with your pregnancy.
Thanks for some validation regarding pain level, Arts. I have wondered if some people believed me when I tried to describe the level of pain involved.

Although, there are some fats in my diet, I have always been a healthy eater. My liver is healthy and I don’t drink much alcohol and I have a lean body mass.
I’m keeping a log of episodes and they can occur regardless of meals type, have even occured on an empty stomach. (there is no specific trigger or time of day)

The attacks seems to occur in cycles between 10 to 15 days, often in pairs, with two occuring within a couple of days of each other.
24 attacks over 248 days.

(

I only know that the gall bladder product helps to break down the fats in the foods you eat… and it deposits amounts into the stomach… I had supposed.. ‘as needed’ but it may be a ‘build up’ thing… sorry to hear of you pain… on one occasion, despite the pregnancy, they gave me morphine… it was the only thing that actually worked… I hope you find a solution soon.

Wocky said:

Aquila, I was admitted to the Royal Melbourne Hospital (a public hospital) at the end of May – through the ED – with pancreatitis caused by a gallstone blocking the pancreatic duct. I know about the pain – at one point the nurse asked my rate the pain out of 10, and I said, in all seriousness, 20. It settled down after about 4 days, during which time they’d done sonographs, NMRs, CT scans, and one or two other things. My gall bladder was full of small stones (up to about 5mm diameter), but the one blocking the pancreatic duct was gone. After it all settled down they took my gall bladder out (laparoscopically). I asked my dietitian what changes I’d need to make to my diet, but she said it’s extremely rare for anyone to need to change at all, and I wouldn’t need to change.

Since then, everything’s been fine. None of the pain, and no digestion problems at all.

To my knowledge(which is clearly limited), the gall bladder hasn’t really been a necessity since the last ice age.

Liver makes bile to emulsify fat. It sits in the gallbladder until you eat something fatty, then it gets released. Without a gallbladder it goes directly into the gut as it’s made. For most people it doesn’t affect their tolerance of fatty meals.

OCDC said:

Liver makes bile to emulsify fat. It sits in the gallbladder until you eat something fatty, then it gets released. Without a gallbladder it goes directly into the gut as it’s made. For most people it doesn’t affect their tolerance of fatty meals.

Which is mainly because we don’t consume as much mammoth fat as we used to do.

OCDC said:

Liver makes bile to emulsify fat. It sits in the gallbladder until you eat something fatty, then it gets released. Without a gallbladder it goes directly into the gut as it’s made. For most people it doesn’t affect their tolerance of fatty meals.

well, there you go.

my sister said that she has trouble after eating excessively fatty foods… shrug… she does like to wine though

roughbarked said:

OCDC said:

Liver makes bile to emulsify fat. It sits in the gallbladder until you eat something fatty, then it gets released. Without a gallbladder it goes directly into the gut as it’s made. For most people it doesn’t affect their tolerance of fatty meals.

Which is mainly because we don’t consume as much mammoth fat as we used to do.

hmmmm… yet obesity is at an all time high

Arts said:

roughbarked said:

OCDC said:

Liver makes bile to emulsify fat. It sits in the gallbladder until you eat something fatty, then it gets released. Without a gallbladder it goes directly into the gut as it’s made. For most people it doesn’t affect their tolerance of fatty meals.

Which is mainly because we don’t consume as much mammoth fat as we used to do.

hmmmm… yet obesity is at an all time high

It’s not hard to tackle a McD’s queue…sometimes, you don’t even need to get up.

Arts said:

OCDC said:

Liver makes bile to emulsify fat. It sits in the gallbladder until you eat something fatty, then it gets released. Without a gallbladder it goes directly into the gut as it’s made. For most people it doesn’t affect their tolerance of fatty meals.

well, there you go.

my sister said that she has trouble after eating excessively fatty foods… shrug… she does like to wine though

wine drinkers are always whiners.

Arts said:

roughbarked said:

OCDC said:

Liver makes bile to emulsify fat. It sits in the gallbladder until you eat something fatty, then it gets released. Without a gallbladder it goes directly into the gut as it’s made. For most people it doesn’t affect their tolerance of fatty meals.

Which is mainly because we don’t consume as much mammoth fat as we used to do.

hmmmm… yet obesity is at an all time high

Different fats.

Wocky said:

Aquila, I was admitted to the Royal Melbourne Hospital (a public hospital) at the end of May – through the ED – with pancreatitis caused by a gallstone blocking the pancreatic duct. I know about the pain – at one point the nurse asked my rate the pain out of 10, and I said, in all seriousness, 20. It settled down after about 4 days, during which time they’d done sonographs, NMRs, CT scans, and one or two other things. My gall bladder was full of small stones (up to about 5mm diameter), but the one blocking the pancreatic duct was gone. After it all settled down they took my gall bladder out (laparoscopically). I asked my dietitian what changes I’d need to make to my diet, but she said it’s extremely rare for anyone to need to change at all, and I wouldn’t need to change.

Since then, everything’s been fine. None of the pain, and no digestion problems at all.

Thanks for sharing your experience, Wocky.
i’m glad all is well, now.

)

Arts said:

OCDC said:

Liver makes bile to emulsify fat. It sits in the gallbladder until you eat something fatty, then it gets released. Without a gallbladder it goes directly into the gut as it’s made. For most people it doesn’t affect their tolerance of fatty meals.

well, there you go.

my sister said that she has trouble after eating excessively fatty foods… shrug… she does like to wine though

Other things cause problems after fatty meals too.

Gastro-colic reflex is when food esp fatty food in the stomach stimulates the colon. This is why toilet training can be easier if you chuck them on the potty after a meal.

Malabsorption can mean you don’t absorb fat from the gut so it all comes out the other end, often causing diarrhoea.

roughbarked said:

Arts said:

roughbarked said:

Which is mainly because we don’t consume as much mammoth fat as we used to do.

hmmmm… yet obesity is at an all time high

Different fats.

Um…

Aquila said:

Thanks for sharing your experience, Wocky.
i’m glad all is well, now.

)

ditto

OCDC said:

roughbarked said:

Arts said:

hmmmm… yet obesity is at an all time high

Different fats.

Um…

I’m no doktar but we aren’t chewing blubber.

obesity isn’t necessarily about eating the meat in the hamburger.

OCDC said:

Liver makes bile to emulsify fat. It sits in the gallbladder until you eat something fatty, then it gets released. Without a gallbladder it goes directly into the gut as it’s made. For most people it doesn’t affect their tolerance of fatty meals.

Is there some kind of chemical feedback for the liver to produce bile or does the liver essentially just have an automatic cycle that it goes through, with any excess bile diverting directly to the intestines when the gallbladder is full?

Is there likely an adjustment phase for liver fuction/bile production after gallbladder removal?

There goes ‘fair, fat, forty, fertile and female’. Can’t think of anyone less 5f than Aquila.

morrie said:

There goes ‘fair, fat, forty, fertile and female’. Can’t think of anyone less 5f than Aquila.

*chuckle
I have no idea what you mean, morrie. *scratches head :)

Aquila said:

morrie said:

There goes ‘fair, fat, forty, fertile and female’. Can’t think of anyone less 5f than Aquila.

*chuckle
I have no idea what you mean, morrie. *scratches head :)

Ex gf who was a GP used to talk of that.
http://www.drhoffman.com/page.cfm/140

Hi Aquila, Sanquar here.

Mate, I had my gall bladder removed about 18 months ago up in Cairns just before I moved to Melb. I know the pain you were going through. The biggest stone I had was about 30mm and plenty of smaller ones.

Pain was excruciating and like you only maxing out on morphine would give me any relief at all. I remember the Dr at Cairns Base telling me that I’d maxed out the pain medicine amount and I was begging him to knock me out… I’m such a woos.

I went private at Cairns private and had the lap. It was a bit messy for me and I needed a drain afterwards. I was last to be operated on that day and by the early hours in the morning I got up and started moving very gingerly.

Drain stayed in for a while till it ran clean but was a very difficult to get out. It didn’t want to budge.

Was good after a week but I’ve noticed I really need to eat regularly now or there better be a toilet nearby. Almost as bad as my time in India – it comes on that quick. But if I eat regularly, it’s all good.

Just on the surgeon I had, he saw me coming and took me for a ride on price, the prick. Employer wouldn’t let me go back to work and I was stupid enough to let him know. I think after private and medicare cover, I had $7000 out of pocket to the doctor and then more to the anesthetist. He did a good job, though.

In hindsight I should have got a referral to a surgeon in Brisbane, booked into the Soffitel for a week to recover and still would have had a couple of grand in my pocket.
I think he was in Martyn St. Was working out of a downstairs old white renovated Qlder.

All the best with it, buddy..

G’day Stan, good to hear from you man.
Glad all is going well and you recovered from your op.
So you left the “city in a garden” to live in the “garden city”.

)

Can you define for me what your meaning for ‘eat regularly” is, exactly.
Do you skip meals?
Did you need to modify your diet?

Cheers

Touche’ on the move :)

Mate, by eating regularly I mean eating little and often. You know how Alex explained that the liver is constantly making bile and that the gall bladder stores that bile until it’s needed? Well without a gallbladder the bile is now constantly draining into the gut and if there isn’t any food in there to bind with, I get symptoms similar to IBS or what I image IBS would be.

If I drink any alcohol I make sure it is on a full stomach. Even if I had dinner at say 7pm and then had a few beers starting at 10 pm, the next morning would probably mean diarrhea. Which is not a bad thing. My alcohol consumption has dropped due to it.

However, on the whole, it has been a very positive thing for me and the small scars give me a great story for people when I’m scuba diving. They line up just like the bite marks from a 2-3m shark would. Not that I’m one to ever tell tall stories now ;)

By the time I had my op, my pancreas was very inflamed or infected or something, probably best you don’t let it get that far. Let us know how you get on and here’s to cute nurses on your ward!

Cheers Stan.
Sounds like you’ve had/have some minor complications which effect some people.

My liver and pancreas are in fine, healthy shape according to my doc.