I drove an old falcon today XD ute with column shift and got to thinking about its advantages. It was a common setup so must have some manufacturing advantage but what? Or was it merely to preserve the bench seat? Is it more complicated in linkages than a floor shift?

Skunkworks said:

I drove an old falcon today XD ute with column shift and got to thinking about its advantages. It was a common setup so must have some manufacturing advantage but what? Or was it merely to preserve the bench seat? Is it more complicated in linkages than a floor shift?

Yes, it is more complicated. A floor shift connected to the gearbox in a much more direct manner.
My 1972 truck has a column shilft. The linkages are worn out and it is a sloppy as hell.

Ii converted my white ute from column to floor shift, not for the advantage, it was just easier to rip the old motor out with the gearbox and drop a whole new motor and gearbox combo back in

stumpy_seahorse said:

Ii converted my white ute from column to floor shift, not for the advantage, it was just easier to rip the old motor out with the gearbox and drop a whole new motor and gearbox combo back in

I switched my Vauxhall over from column to floor. Only I just changed the gearbox. It only took a couple of hours. From then on I stuck with the floor shift. It just needed a hole to be cut in the floor.

I think Skunkworks has a point, though: most early cars were column shift. Presumably there was a reason for that.

A column shift also allows for a bench seat in the front.

diddly-squat said:

A column shift also allows for a bench seat in the front.

Ahhhhh bench seats.. Good times…

Dropbear said:

diddly-squat said:

A column shift also allows for a bench seat in the front.

Ahhhhh bench seats.. Good times…

totally…

;)

Dropbear said:

diddly-squat said:

A column shift also allows for a bench seat in the front.

Ahhhhh bench seats.. Good times…

Must have been the fashion way back? Back in my day all the young bucks were converting them to bucket seat with floor shifts. Plus painting the diffs red and jacking up the rear end for better handling.

Skunkworks said:

Dropbear said:

diddly-squat said:

A column shift also allows for a bench seat in the front.

Ahhhhh bench seats.. Good times…

Must have been the fashion way back? Back in my day all the young bucks were converting them to bucket seat with floor shifts. Plus painting the diffs red and jacking up the rear end for better handling.

My mate had a three on the tree and a bench front seat. No synchro on first either…

Nice car but

Obviousman said:

I think Skunkworks has a point, though: most early cars were column shift. Presumably there was a reason for that.

Maybe it was because they had bench seats, hey.

Hello Peter, how have you been?

I think bench seats has to be a major part of, if not the answer. I tried some Googling (praised be thy name) and it seemed to indicate the same thing…. although there were cars with bucket seats and a column shift.

I think bench seats has to be a major part of, if not the answer. I tried some Googling (praised be thy name) and it seemed to indicate the same thing…. although there were cars with bucket seats and a column shift.

You can have bench seats and a floor shifter, no problem.

You just need some gear linkages…

Obviousman said:

I think bench seats has to be a major part of, if not the answer. I tried some Googling (praised be thy name) and it seemed to indicate the same thing…. although there were cars with bucket seats and a column shift.

Also most car of that vintage only had three forward gears so it’s easy to package the shifter on the steering column as it’d only need four slots – 3 forward + 1 reverse.
And yes lots more room for feet, sheep, cattle, whatever you wanted to carry up front.

Obviousman said:

I think bench seats has to be a major part of, if not the answer. I tried some Googling (praised be thy name) and it seemed to indicate the same thing…. although there were cars with bucket seats and a column shift.

The Vauxhall had the option of floor or column shift, bench or twin front seat in any combination. I can’t recall the floor shift being any problem with the bench seat.

>>cattle

Terrific things.

Peak Warming Man said:

>>cattle

Terrific things.

Taste like yum.

Why the feck would anyone want to go to Turkey right now?

the landy had a bench seat and a floor shift. in fact it had three floor shifts.

Soz.

morrie said:

Obviousman said:

I think bench seats has to be a major part of, if not the answer. I tried some Googling (praised be thy name) and it seemed to indicate the same thing…. although there were cars with bucket seats and a column shift.

The Vauxhall had the option of floor or column shift, bench or twin front seat in any combination. I can’t recall the floor shift being any problem with the bench seat.

Yeah but they had those long bent floor shift, the Vauxhall Viva I had had bucket seats with the spiffing little stubby gear shift.

Peak Warming Man said:

Yeah but they had those long bent floor shift, the Vauxhall Viva I had had bucket seats with the spiffing little stubby gear shift.

My old HQ tonner had a floor shift like that, half a meter of bent metal.

couple things.

With someone sitting in the middle, say bench seat and floor shifter, you got their legs there, which presents numerous possible problems. They can knock the shifter, and depending where their legs are you got to shift it between their legs. Also in case of seat belt only being around waist in case of crash the face can down directly on the shifter.

Noise comes up through the rubber around floorshifter, and through the shifter itself, transmission noise etc (and heat) Also it is an avenue for carbon monoxide fumes etc.

Dashboards etc use to be a bit different in the old days, related maybe to firewalls and adjoining floorpan being somewhat different. Bonnets etc maybe lower now. Seats maybe now sit down lower, so a floor shift is closer lending itself to better ergonomics.

couple things.
————————
Yes I agree.

>Seats maybe now sit down lower, so a floor shift is closer lending itself to better ergonomics.

Yes. My recollection of the floor shift was quite a long rod, with a slight bend in it. These days they seem to be quite short.

morrie said:

>Seats maybe now sit down lower, so a floor shift is closer lending itself to better ergonomics.

Yes. My recollection of the floor shift was quite a long rod, with a slight bend in it. These days they seem to be quite short.

The lever had to travel a fair distance because it was mounted well forward of todays mountings and then there was the fact that there was no console.

I thought that the column shift was just to make driving easier, nowadays we would call it more ergonomic. I don’t think there was any mechanical advantage.

What about push button autos, Chrysler style. Why did they flop?

Skunkworks said:

What about push button autos, Chrysler style. Why did they flop?

My second car was an “R” Model Valiant.

Pushbutton Auto.

It was a pretty weird way to drive when you come to think about it.

I , many years ago had a Valiant with push button auto.
Seems a sensible as a stick shift auto only different.

Skeptic Pete said:

Skunkworks said:

What about push button autos, Chrysler style. Why did they flop?

My second car was an “R” Model Valiant.

Pushbutton Auto.

It was a pretty weird way to drive when you come to think about it.

would push buttons be faster?

Skeptic Pete said:

Skunkworks said:

What about push button autos, Chrysler style. Why did they flop?

My second car was an “R” Model Valiant.

Pushbutton Auto.

It was a pretty weird way to drive when you come to think about it.

Bet you wish you still have that.

How is it automatic if you have to push buttons?

“would push buttons be faster?”

Who cares? You push the “D” button and put the foot down.

Bubblecar said:

How is it automatic if you have to push buttons?

Still need to choose forward, backward, or stay still?

>Still need to choose forward, backward, or stay still?

Surely a good automatic car can just sense these things by your body language.

;)

Bubblecar said:

How is it automatic if you have to push buttons?

Same as having to move a lever from neutral to drive to park,/reverse etc except uses buttons.

It sort of makes sense, doesn’t take up much space, driver starts car, hits a button and is away. Wants to reverse, halts hits R, but it never took off so must be reasons. Unreliable?

Thinking about it, my Mum always drove automatics and I remember her having to shift a lever every now and then.

what do racing cars use now?

Skunkworks said:

It sort of makes sense, doesn’t take up much space, driver starts car, hits a button and is away. Wants to reverse, halts hits R, but it never took off so must be reasons. Unreliable?

People kept mistaking it for the radio?

• It sort of makes sense, doesn’t take up much space, driver starts car, hits a button and is away. Wants to reverse, halts hits R, but it never took off so must be reasons. Unreliable?

Probably won’t be long before iCar where you just say “Car, Forward”, “Car, Reverse”, and… well that’s probably it really. I’d still want to manually control the go faster and slow down pedals…

• what do racing cars use now?

Probably depends upon the kind of racing car…

Bubblecar said:

Skunkworks said:

It sort of makes sense, doesn’t take up much space, driver starts car, hits a button and is away. Wants to reverse, halts hits R, but it never took off so must be reasons. Unreliable?

People kept mistaking it for the radio?

I doubt it but even back then autos didn’t allow something that destroyed the gearbox or engine.

Skunkworks said:

Bubblecar said:

Skunkworks said:

It sort of makes sense, doesn’t take up much space, driver starts car, hits a button and is away. Wants to reverse, halts hits R, but it never took off so must be reasons. Unreliable?

People kept mistaking it for the radio?

I doubt it but even back then autos didn’t allow something that destroyed the gearbox or engine.

Valiant buttons were in a vertical line on right hand side of steering coloum. Clearely marked D,R,N,P etc
If you were stupid enough to mistake them for the radio you shouldn’t be driving.

Chrysler Corporation automobiles introduced pushbutton automatic transmission controls for their PowerFlite and Torqueflite transmissions for the 1956 model year. Instead of the traditional placement of a gear selector on the column, Chrysler’s system mounted the gear buttons in dashboard pods to the left of the steering wheel, becoming the first U.S. carmaker to offer such a system. This system was mechanical. Packard also introduced a steering-column-mounted electro-mechanical pushbutton transmission control pod in its “Touch Button Ultramatic” in 1956, placed off to the right of the column about 6 in (15 cm). Using technology that it purchased from a Packard supplier, Auto-Lite, this push-button system proved problematic as the electric motor was insufficient to move the car out of Park on a steep hill, and would pop the circuit breaker; electrical contact problems, wiring problems and other issues were prevalent even when new; and the problems worsened with age.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teletouch

…later they say:

Eventually, all push-button transmission selectors became a safety issue due to lack of industry-wide standardization.

http://www.google.com.au/imgres?start=163&hl=en&biw=1680&bih=907&tbm=isch&tbnid=kbVdYZubBXFTPM:&imgrefurl=http://www.shannons.com.au/auctions/lot/BD3853PCDAAKEBX7/&docid=cjweh4qpTiCpMM&imgurl=http://www.shannons.com.au/library/images/auctions/FDJAD9E033Z8792D/medium/1963-chrysler-valiant-ap5-safari-station-wagon.jpg&w=375&h=250&ei=je4mUs38KYSVkwWjkoGYAQ&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,r:80,s:100,i:244&iact=rc&page=6&tbnh=181&tbnw=269&ndsp=36&tx=158&ty=111

Did this work?

furious said:

• It sort of makes sense, doesn’t take up much space, driver starts car, hits a button and is away. Wants to reverse, halts hits R, but it never took off so must be reasons. Unreliable?

Probably won’t be long before iCar where you just say “Car, Forward”, “Car, Reverse”, and… well that’s probably it really. I’d still want to manually control the go faster and slow down pedals…

Was thinking about that a few months ago when google was spruiking the driverless car. Will be interesting what happens with legislation with those. “Yes, officer, I’m as pissed as a newt, but the car is driving, not me. Breath test it”.

furious said:

• It sort of makes sense, doesn’t take up much space, driver starts car, hits a button and is away. Wants to reverse, halts hits R, but it never took off so must be reasons. Unreliable?

Probably won’t be long before iCar where you just say “Car, Forward”, “Car, Reverse”, and… well that’s probably it really. I’d still want to manually control the go faster and slow down pedals…

mind control would be even faster

thats coming, few years away though

gaghalfrunt said:

http://www.google.com.au/imgres?start=163&hl=en&biw=1680&bih=907&tbm=isch&tbnid=kbVdYZubBXFTPM:&imgrefurl=http://www.shannons.com.au/auctions/lot/BD3853PCDAAKEBX7/&docid=cjweh4qpTiCpMM&imgurl=http://www.shannons.com.au/library/images/auctions/FDJAD9E033Z8792D/medium/1963-chrysler-valiant-ap5-safari-station-wagon.jpg&w=375&h=250&ei=je4mUs38KYSVkwWjkoGYAQ&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,r:80,s:100,i:244&iact=rc&page=6&tbnh=181&tbnw=269&ndsp=36&tx=158&ty=111

Did this work?

Thats the one I had!
Buttons on right hand side. Radio in middle of dash. Not rocket surgery to operate.

sibeen said:

furious said:

• It sort of makes sense, doesn’t take up much space, driver starts car, hits a button and is away. Wants to reverse, halts hits R, but it never took off so must be reasons. Unreliable?

Probably won’t be long before iCar where you just say “Car, Forward”, “Car, Reverse”, and… well that’s probably it really. I’d still want to manually control the go faster and slow down pedals…

Was thinking about that a few months ago when google was spruiking the driverless car. Will be interesting what happens with legislation with those. “Yes, officer, I’m as pissed as a newt, but the car is driving, not me. Breath test it”.

will people be able to be driven home by a driverless car if they are drunk?

cause car makers do have them now

Bubblecar said:

Chrysler Corporation automobiles introduced pushbutton automatic transmission controls for their PowerFlite and Torqueflite transmissions for the 1956 model year. Instead of the traditional placement of a gear selector on the column, Chrysler’s system mounted the gear buttons in dashboard pods to the left of the steering wheel, becoming the first U.S. carmaker to offer such a system. This system was mechanical. Packard also introduced a steering-column-mounted electro-mechanical pushbutton transmission control pod in its “Touch Button Ultramatic” in 1956, placed off to the right of the column about 6 in (15 cm). Using technology that it purchased from a Packard supplier, Auto-Lite, this push-button system proved problematic as the electric motor was insufficient to move the car out of Park on a steep hill, and would pop the circuit breaker; electrical contact problems, wiring problems and other issues were prevalent even when new; and the problems worsened with age.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teletouch

Cheers, so killed by reliability issues.

Skunkworks said:

Bubblecar said:

Chrysler Corporation automobiles introduced pushbutton automatic transmission controls for their PowerFlite and Torqueflite transmissions for the 1956 model year. Instead of the traditional placement of a gear selector on the column, Chrysler’s system mounted the gear buttons in dashboard pods to the left of the steering wheel, becoming the first U.S. carmaker to offer such a system. This system was mechanical. Packard also introduced a steering-column-mounted electro-mechanical pushbutton transmission control pod in its “Touch Button Ultramatic” in 1956, placed off to the right of the column about 6 in (15 cm). Using technology that it purchased from a Packard supplier, Auto-Lite, this push-button system proved problematic as the electric motor was insufficient to move the car out of Park on a steep hill, and would pop the circuit breaker; electrical contact problems, wiring problems and other issues were prevalent even when new; and the problems worsened with age.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teletouch

Cheers, so killed by reliability issues.

the didn’t test it very well it seems

Skunkworks said:

Bubblecar said:

Chrysler Corporation automobiles introduced pushbutton automatic transmission controls for their PowerFlite and Torqueflite transmissions for the 1956 model year. Instead of the traditional placement of a gear selector on the column, Chrysler’s system mounted the gear buttons in dashboard pods to the left of the steering wheel, becoming the first U.S. carmaker to offer such a system. This system was mechanical. Packard also introduced a steering-column-mounted electro-mechanical pushbutton transmission control pod in its “Touch Button Ultramatic” in 1956, placed off to the right of the column about 6 in (15 cm). Using technology that it purchased from a Packard supplier, Auto-Lite, this push-button system proved problematic as the electric motor was insufficient to move the car out of Park on a steep hill, and would pop the circuit breaker; electrical contact problems, wiring problems and other issues were prevalent even when new; and the problems worsened with age.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teletouch

Cheers, so killed by reliability issues.

I will admit it did select whatever gear it felt like at the time so took a few random button pushes to get it to go in the right direction.