I’ve posted this thread to answer the question of whether or not one jet crossing anothers wake turbulence can cause engine flameout. My download is used up so I can’t google very quickly but these references have some technical information on wake turbulence in general.

Wake turbulence rips aircraft apart

On June 12, 2006, while on visual approach at Kansas City International Airport in Kansas City, Mo., the pilot of a Piper Saratoga crossed below the flight path of a Boeing 737 that was landing ahead on a parallel runway. The Saratoga encountered wake turbulence so violent that it tore apart the aircraft in flight. The pilot and his passenger were killed.

Wake Turbulence — An Invisible Enemy

Riff-in-Thyme said:

I’ve posted this thread to answer the question of whether or not one jet crossing anothers wake turbulence can cause engine flameout. My download is used up so I can’t google very quickly but these references have some technical information on wake turbulence in general.

Wake turbulence rips aircraft apart

On June 12, 2006, while on visual approach at Kansas City International Airport in Kansas City, Mo., the pilot of a Piper Saratoga crossed below the flight path of a Boeing 737 that was landing ahead on a parallel runway. The Saratoga encountered wake turbulence so violent that it tore apart the aircraft in flight. The pilot and his passenger were killed.

Wake Turbulence — An Invisible Enemy

except a piper saratoga is a prop driven plane 1/90th the size of a 737…

poikilotherm said:

Riff-in-Thyme said:

I’ve posted this thread to answer the question of whether or not one jet crossing anothers wake turbulence can cause engine flameout. My download is used up so I can’t google very quickly but these references have some technical information on wake turbulence in general.

Wake turbulence rips aircraft apart

On June 12, 2006, while on visual approach at Kansas City International Airport in Kansas City, Mo., the pilot of a Piper Saratoga crossed below the flight path of a Boeing 737 that was landing ahead on a parallel runway. The Saratoga encountered wake turbulence so violent that it tore apart the aircraft in flight. The pilot and his passenger were killed.

Wake Turbulence — An Invisible Enemy

except a piper saratoga is a prop driven plane 1/90th the size of a 737…

yes. the conversation that prompted the thread was originally about general wake turbulence but the flameout question was not definitively addressed.

poikilotherm said:

Riff-in-Thyme said:

I’ve posted this thread to answer the question of whether or not one jet crossing anothers wake turbulence can cause engine flameout. My download is used up so I can’t google very quickly but these references have some technical information on wake turbulence in general.

Wake turbulence rips aircraft apart

On June 12, 2006, while on visual approach at Kansas City International Airport in Kansas City, Mo., the pilot of a Piper Saratoga crossed below the flight path of a Boeing 737 that was landing ahead on a parallel runway. The Saratoga encountered wake turbulence so violent that it tore apart the aircraft in flight. The pilot and his passenger were killed.

Wake Turbulence — An Invisible Enemy

except a piper saratoga is a prop driven plane 1/90th the size of a 737…

true as it stands.

Riff-in-Thyme said:

poikilotherm said:

Riff-in-Thyme said:

I’ve posted this thread to answer the question of whether or not one jet crossing anothers wake turbulence can cause engine flameout. My download is used up so I can’t google very quickly but these references have some technical information on wake turbulence in general.

Wake turbulence rips aircraft apart

On June 12, 2006, while on visual approach at Kansas City International Airport in Kansas City, Mo., the pilot of a Piper Saratoga crossed below the flight path of a Boeing 737 that was landing ahead on a parallel runway. The Saratoga encountered wake turbulence so violent that it tore apart the aircraft in flight. The pilot and his passenger were killed.

Wake Turbulence — An Invisible Enemy

except a piper saratoga is a prop driven plane 1/90th the size of a 737…

yes. the conversation that prompted the thread was originally about general wake turbulence but the flameout question was not definitively addressed.

you said, one jet crossing another.

roughbarked said:

Riff-in-Thyme said:

poikilotherm said:

except a piper saratoga is a prop driven plane 1/90th the size of a 737…

yes. the conversation that prompted the thread was originally about general wake turbulence but the flameout question was not definitively addressed.

you said, one jet crossing another.

Yes. I seem to recall learning that crossing a jets wake(while turning I think), could precipitate flameout. I believe the scenario required supersonic speeds and IIRC had something to do with shockwaves disrupting airflow.

Riff-in-Thyme said:

roughbarked said:

Riff-in-Thyme said:

yes. the conversation that prompted the thread was originally about general wake turbulence but the flameout question was not definitively addressed.

you said, one jet crossing another.

Yes. I seem to recall learning that crossing a jets wake(while turning I think), could precipitate flameout. I believe the scenario required supersonic speeds and IIRC had something to do with shockwaves disrupting airflow.

What’s a Piper Saratoga doing anywhere near a supersonic jet?

Piper Saratoga:

roughbarked said:

Riff-in-Thyme said:

roughbarked said:

you said, one jet crossing another.

Yes. I seem to recall learning that crossing a jets wake(while turning I think), could precipitate flameout. I believe the scenario required supersonic speeds and IIRC had something to do with shockwaves disrupting airflow.

What’s a Piper Saratoga doing anywhere near a supersonic jet?

are you trying to be difficult?

Riff-in-Thyme said:

roughbarked said:

Riff-in-Thyme said:

Yes. I seem to recall learning that crossing a jets wake(while turning I think), could precipitate flameout. I believe the scenario required supersonic speeds and IIRC had something to do with shockwaves disrupting airflow.

What’s a Piper Saratoga doing anywhere near a supersonic jet?

are you trying to be difficult?

A quick search of my history will prove that I’ve long ago admitted that the only degree I have is one of difficulty.

For some reason the letters and numbers on that plane looked back-to-front when I first glanced at them.

roughbarked said:

What’s a Piper Saratoga doing anywhere near a supersonic jet?

The question that started the original discussion was, “can wake turbulence make an aircraft lose control?” The link was provided for substance.

roughbarked said:

Riff-in-Thyme said:

roughbarked said:

What’s a Piper Saratoga doing anywhere near a supersonic jet?

are you trying to be difficult?

A quick search of my history will prove that I’ve long ago admitted that the only degree I have is one of difficulty.

so there is no effort in it for you?

Bubblecar said:

For some reason the letters and numbers on that plane looked back-to-front when I first glanced at them.

A comes before N

Riff-in-Thyme said:

roughbarked said:

Riff-in-Thyme said:

are you trying to be difficult?

A quick search of my history will prove that I’ve long ago admitted that the only degree I have is one of difficulty.

so there is no effort in it for you?

not at all. It is my nature.

Bubblecar said:

For some reason the letters and numbers on that plane looked back-to-front when I first glanced at them.

Yes, come to think of it – the “shadow” of the letters/numbers (I don’t know the proper artistic term) is painted on the wrong side.

party_pants said:

Bubblecar said:

For some reason the letters and numbers on that plane looked back-to-front when I first glanced at them.

Yes, come to think of it – the “shadow” of the letters/numbers (I don’t know the proper artistic term) is painted on the wrong side.

I could say that it looks dyslexic because you expect the icons to line up on the left side of the screen but that would allow you to suggest that I am an apple fanboi..

roughbarked said:

party_pants said:

Bubblecar said:

For some reason the letters and numbers on that plane looked back-to-front when I first glanced at them.

Yes, come to think of it – the “shadow” of the letters/numbers (I don’t know the proper artistic term) is painted on the wrong side.

I could say that it looks dyslexic because you expect the icons to line up on the left side of the screen but that would allow you to suggest that I am an apple fanboi..

you aren’t a fan of apples?

Riff-in-Thyme said:

roughbarked said:

party_pants said:

Yes, come to think of it – the “shadow” of the letters/numbers (I don’t know the proper artistic term) is painted on the wrong side.

I could say that it looks dyslexic because you expect the icons to line up on the left side of the screen but that would allow you to suggest that I am an apple fanboi..

you aren’t a fan of apples?

Granny Smiths are the best..

roughbarked said:

Riff-in-Thyme said:

roughbarked said:

I could say that it looks dyslexic because you expect the icons to line up on the left side of the screen but that would allow you to suggest that I am an apple fanboi..

you aren’t a fan of apples?

Granny Smiths are the best..

for cooking maybe

it is called “drop shadow” p_p. and is normally on the other side.

Riff-in-Thyme said:

roughbarked said:

Riff-in-Thyme said:

you aren’t a fan of apples?

Granny Smiths are the best..

for cooking maybe

Such limited education/experience needs some exploration/expansion.

Boris said:

it is called “drop shadow” p_p. and is normally on the other side.

Thanks Boris.

That’s what I love about this forum, there is always someone that does know.

Boris said:

it is called “drop shadow” p_p. and is normally on the other side.

Depends from which side you are looking and how fast it is going past.

Boris said:

it is called “drop shadow” p_p. and is normally on the other side.

and would be correctly positioned on the left hand side of the plane

party_pants said:

Boris said:

it is called “drop shadow” p_p. and is normally on the other side.

Thanks Boris.

That’s what I love about this forum, there is always someone that does know.

I know.. ;)

Riff-in-Thyme said:

Boris said:

it is called “drop shadow” p_p. and is normally on the other side.

and would be correctly positioned on the left hand side of the plane

someone’s thinking..

roughbarked said:

Riff-in-Thyme said:

roughbarked said:

Granny Smiths are the best..

for cooking maybe

Such limited education/experience needs some exploration/expansion.

Look. You can have your sour Granny’s. I prefer a sweet juicy Pink Lady any day. ;)

roughbarked said:

Riff-in-Thyme said:

Boris said:

it is called “drop shadow” p_p. and is normally on the other side.

and would be correctly positioned on the left hand side of the plane

someone’s thinking..

Na,,, that ones memorised.

Riff-in-Thyme said:

roughbarked said:

Riff-in-Thyme said:

for cooking maybe

Such limited education/experience needs some exploration/expansion.

Look. You can have your sour Granny’s. I prefer a sweet juicy Pink Lady any day. ;)

sure.. straight out of a coolroom.

Look. have the experience.. find a good granny smith orchard.. wait until the leaves are falling and ask the owner could you go and find an apple.. He’ll laugh and say, go for it. Do that.

roughbarked said:

Riff-in-Thyme said:

roughbarked said:

Such limited education/experience needs some exploration/expansion.

Look. You can have your sour Granny’s. I prefer a sweet juicy Pink Lady any day. ;)

sure.. straight out of a coolroom.

Look. have the experience.. find a good granny smith orchard.. wait until the leaves are falling and ask the owner could you go and find an apple.. He’ll laugh and say, go for it. Do that.

Ok. But I’m still taking my pink lady with me

Riff-in-Thyme said:

roughbarked said:

Riff-in-Thyme said:

Look. You can have your sour Granny’s. I prefer a sweet juicy Pink Lady any day. ;)

sure.. straight out of a coolroom.

Look. have the experience.. find a good granny smith orchard.. wait until the leaves are falling and ask the owner could you go and find an apple.. He’ll laugh and say, go for it. Do that.

Ok. But I’m still taking my pink lady with me

No.. you need to allow that to ripen on the tree as well.
I’m not disputing that the pink lady isn’t one of or the finest apples one can buy off the shelf.. it was bred for that purpose. You’d need to be sure tha what you were getting, was actually a pink lady but that’s another story.. What you need to know is the untapped secret of the granny smith that has had a few frosts on it.

> On June 12, 2006, while on visual approach at Kansas City International Airport in Kansas City, Mo., the pilot of a Piper Saratoga crossed below the flight path of a Boeing 737 that was landing ahead on a parallel runway. The Saratoga encountered wake turbulence so violent that it tore apart the aircraft in flight.

If you’ve seen the Mythbusters successful SECOND attempt at blowing a car over in the wake of a jet Mythbusters 2 , you’ll have no trouble believing the above. They flipped both a taxi and a bus. The Mythbusters FIRST attempt wasn’t so successful, it only set the car on fire.

roughbarked said:

Riff-in-Thyme said:

roughbarked said:

sure.. straight out of a coolroom.

Look. have the experience.. find a good granny smith orchard.. wait until the leaves are falling and ask the owner could you go and find an apple.. He’ll laugh and say, go for it. Do that.

Ok. But I’m still taking my pink lady with me

No.. you need to allow that to ripen on the tree as well.
I’m not disputing that the pink lady isn’t one of or the finest apples one can buy off the shelf.. it was bred for that purpose. You’d need to be sure tha what you were getting, was actually a pink lady but that’s another story.. What you need to know is the untapped secret of the granny smith that has had a few frosts on it.

No you need to let me slip my innapropriate sexual innuendo in without all this fuss. I get the point about tree ripened. I did grow up in India eating their mangoes and bananas and guava etc..

mollwollfumble said:

> On June 12, 2006, while on visual approach at Kansas City International Airport in Kansas City, Mo., the pilot of a Piper Saratoga crossed below the flight path of a Boeing 737 that was landing ahead on a parallel runway. The Saratoga encountered wake turbulence so violent that it tore apart the aircraft in flight.

If you’ve seen the Mythbusters successful SECOND attempt at blowing a car over in the wake of a jet Mythbusters 2 , you’ll have no trouble believing the above. They flipped both a taxi and a bus. The Mythbusters FIRST attempt wasn’t so successful, it only set the car on fire.

700 feet? is within the flight zone of a jet?

mollwollfumble said:

> On June 12, 2006, while on visual approach at Kansas City International Airport in Kansas City, Mo., the pilot of a Piper Saratoga crossed below the flight path of a Boeing 737 that was landing ahead on a parallel runway. The Saratoga encountered wake turbulence so violent that it tore apart the aircraft in flight.

If you’ve seen the Mythbusters successful SECOND attempt at blowing a car over in the wake of a jet Mythbusters 2 , you’ll have no trouble believing the above. They flipped both a taxi and a bus. The Mythbusters FIRST attempt wasn’t so successful, it only set the car on fire.

The British TV show Brainiac did the same experiment too and managed to roll the car. More of a childrens/teenages show, but they did manage a few good experiments.

Riff-in-Thyme said:

roughbarked said:

Riff-in-Thyme said:

Ok. But I’m still taking my pink lady with me

No.. you need to allow that to ripen on the tree as well.
I’m not disputing that the pink lady isn’t one of or the finest apples one can buy off the shelf.. it was bred for that purpose. You’d need to be sure tha what you were getting, was actually a pink lady but that’s another story.. What you need to know is the untapped secret of the granny smith that has had a few frosts on it.

No you need to let me slip my innapropriate sexual innuendo in without all this fuss. I get the point about tree ripened. I did grow up in India eating their mangoes and bananas and guava etc..

However, it is clear that you think all granny smiths are green.

roughbarked said:

Riff-in-Thyme said:

roughbarked said:

No.. you need to allow that to ripen on the tree as well.
I’m not disputing that the pink lady isn’t one of or the finest apples one can buy off the shelf.. it was bred for that purpose. You’d need to be sure tha what you were getting, was actually a pink lady but that’s another story.. What you need to know is the untapped secret of the granny smith that has had a few frosts on it.

No you need to let me slip my innapropriate sexual innuendo in without all this fuss. I get the point about tree ripened. I did grow up in India eating their mangoes and bananas and guava etc..

However, it is clear that you think all granny smiths are green.

No. I just don’t readily admit to being into Grannies.

Riff-in-Thyme said:

roughbarked said:

Riff-in-Thyme said:

No you need to let me slip my innapropriate sexual innuendo in without all this fuss. I get the point about tree ripened. I did grow up in India eating their mangoes and bananas and guava etc..

However, it is clear that you think all granny smiths are green.

No. I just don’t readily admit to being into Grannies.

You haven’t heard the tale about the Italian lad then?

got to be remembered that a car is a slightly different aerodynamic shape from a plane. so i would think a plane would be easier to upset.

Boris said:

got to be remembered that a car is a slightly different aerodynamic shape from a plane. so i would think a plane would be easier to upset.

undoubtedly.. more like a caravan, than a car.

roughbarked said:

Riff-in-Thyme said:

roughbarked said:

However, it is clear that you think all granny smiths are green.

No. I just don’t readily admit to being into Grannies.

You haven’t heard the tale about the Italian lad then?

No. I only know that Greeks invented sex and Italians invented sex with women………….. apparently.

Riff-in-Thyme said:

No. I only know that Greeks invented sex and Italians invented sex with women………….. apparently.

Jaysus, you don’t work for Ladd Electric do you, Riff.

I was told that by one of their estimators this afternoon.

Riff-in-Thyme said:

roughbarked said:

Riff-in-Thyme said:

No. I just don’t readily admit to being into Grannies.

You haven’t heard the tale about the Italian lad then?

No. I only know that Greeks invented sex and Italians invented sex with women………….. apparently.

It isn’t a joke I would be proud of the re-telling.

sibeen said:

Riff-in-Thyme said:

No. I only know that Greeks invented sex and Italians invented sex with women………….. apparently.

Jaysus, you don’t work for Ladd Electric do you, Riff.

I was told that by one of their estimators this afternoon.

No. Is the only italian joke I know

roughbarked said:

Riff-in-Thyme said:

roughbarked said:

You haven’t heard the tale about the Italian lad then?

No. I only know that Greeks invented sex and Italians invented sex with women………….. apparently.

It isn’t a joke I would be proud of the re-telling.

It all happened a long time ago so why would there be hard feelings?

Riff-in-Thyme said:

sibeen said:

Riff-in-Thyme said:

No. I only know that Greeks invented sex and Italians invented sex with women………….. apparently.

Jaysus, you don’t work for Ladd Electric do you, Riff.

I was told that by one of their estimators this afternoon.

No. Is the only italian joke I know

OK.. that does it.. if you want a stream of barely intelligible translations of Italian jokes.. I could start…

Riff-in-Thyme said:

roughbarked said:

Riff-in-Thyme said:

No. I only know that Greeks invented sex and Italians invented sex with women………….. apparently.

It isn’t a joke I would be proud of the re-telling.

It all happened a long time ago so why would there be hard feelings?

This is the interbetz and it is for here and.. for as long as the backups last.

And, consider me surprised, they have LDS associated companies advertising in the breaks…

roughbarked said:

Riff-in-Thyme said:

roughbarked said:

It isn’t a joke I would be proud of the re-telling.

It all happened a long time ago so why would there be hard feelings?

This is the interbetz and it is for here and.. for as long as the backups last.

yes, but the events that provoked the joke are long past so,,,,,,,,,,

Never mind…

Wrong thread…

Riff-in-Thyme said:

roughbarked said:

Riff-in-Thyme said:

It all happened a long time ago so why would there be hard feelings?

This is the interbetz and it is for here and.. for as long as the backups last.

yes, but the events that provoked the joke are long past so,,,,,,,,,,

I’m still not repeating it in public ;) Most Italian jokes are very lame.

furious said:

Never mind…

Wrong thread…

Wred Fong

He’s a regular

roughbarked said:

Riff-in-Thyme said:

roughbarked said:

This is the interbetz and it is for here and.. for as long as the backups last.

yes, but the events that provoked the joke are long past so,,,,,,,,,,

I’m still not repeating it in public ;) Most Italian jokes are very lame.

well its actually a greek joke but ok

Riff-in-Thyme said:

roughbarked said:

Riff-in-Thyme said:

yes, but the events that provoked the joke are long past so,,,,,,,,,,

I’m still not repeating it in public ;) Most Italian jokes are very lame.

well its actually a greek joke but ok

yours was.

roughbarked said:

Riff-in-Thyme said:

roughbarked said:

I’m still not repeating it in public ;) Most Italian jokes are very lame.

well its actually a greek joke but ok

yours was.

so I didn’t find out about the Italian boy did? Is it worth it?

• Is it worth it?

Two dollars and fifteen cents…

Riff-in-Thyme said:

roughbarked said:

Riff-in-Thyme said:

well its actually a greek joke but ok

yours was.

so I didn’t find out about the Italian boy did? Is it worth it?

Depends on our depth of sensauma.. or your lame filter.

furious said:

• Is it worth it?

Two dollars and fifteen cents…

Actually, it was 100,000 lira

roughbarked said:

Riff-in-Thyme said:

roughbarked said:

yours was.

so I didn’t find out about the Italian boy did? Is it worth it?

Depends on our depth of sensauma.. or your lame filter.

Well I laid the groundwork for about as low as you can go withoutmentioning priests and bellboys so fire away if you feel like

Riff-in-Thyme said:

roughbarked said:

Riff-in-Thyme said:

so I didn’t find out about the Italian boy did? Is it worth it?

Depends on our depth of sensauma.. or your lame filter.

Well I laid the groundwork for about as low as you can go withoutmentioning priests and bellboys so fire away if you feel like

This has little to do with priests and their choice of altar boys.

roughbarked said:

Riff-in-Thyme said:

roughbarked said:

Depends on our depth of sensauma.. or your lame filter.

Well I laid the groundwork for about as low as you can go withoutmentioning priests and bellboys so fire away if you feel like

This has little to do with priests and their choice of altar boys.

Though wake turbulence seems as good a stream as any.

roughbarked said:

Riff-in-Thyme said:

roughbarked said:

Depends on our depth of sensauma.. or your lame filter.

Well I laid the groundwork for about as low as you can go withoutmentioning priests and bellboys so fire away if you feel like

This has little to do with priests and their choice of altar boys.

Might have to leave it for another night rb. I’m going turn the world off for the night

roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

Riff-in-Thyme said:

Well I laid the groundwork for about as low as you can go withoutmentioning priests and bellboys so fire away if you feel like

This has little to do with priests and their choice of altar boys.

Though wake turbulence seems as good a stream as any.

Doesn’t have something to do with specific Captaincy skills does it?

Riff-in-Thyme said:

roughbarked said:

Riff-in-Thyme said:

Well I laid the groundwork for about as low as you can go withoutmentioning priests and bellboys so fire away if you feel like

This has little to do with priests and their choice of altar boys.

Might have to leave it for another night rb. I’m going turn the world off for the night

:) phew..

Riff-in-Thyme said:

roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

This has little to do with priests and their choice of altar boys.

Though wake turbulence seems as good a stream as any.

Doesn’t have something to do with specific Captaincy skills does it?

in a fashion.

roughbarked said:

Riff-in-Thyme said:

roughbarked said:

Though wake turbulence seems as good a stream as any.

Doesn’t have something to do with specific Captaincy skills does it?

in a fashion.

well post it in the Mad Monday thread

• Though wake turbulence seems as good a stream as any.

The coldest stream guards of them all
Sang God Save The Queen
Bloodsport For All

Riff-in-Thyme said:

roughbarked said:

Riff-in-Thyme said:

Doesn’t have something to do with specific Captaincy skills does it?

in a fashion.

well post it in the Mad Monday thread

It certainly isn’t a Friday Funny.

furious said:

• Though wake turbulence seems as good a stream as any.

The coldest stream guards of them all
Sang God Save The Queen
Bloodsport For All

you really want me to tell the joke/folk tare.. here?

• you really want me to tell the joke/folk tare.. here?

No…

furious said:

• you really want me to tell the joke/folk tare.. here?

No…

good

party_pants said:

mollwollfumble said:

> On June 12, 2006, while on visual approach at Kansas City International Airport in Kansas City, Mo., the pilot of a Piper Saratoga crossed below the flight path of a Boeing 737 that was landing ahead on a parallel runway. The Saratoga encountered wake turbulence so violent that it tore apart the aircraft in flight.

If you’ve seen the Mythbusters successful SECOND attempt at blowing a car over in the wake of a jet Mythbusters 2 , you’ll have no trouble believing the above. They flipped both a taxi and a bus. The Mythbusters FIRST attempt wasn’t so successful, it only set the car on fire.

The British TV show Brainiac did the same experiment too and managed to roll the car. More of a childrens/teenages show, but they did manage a few good experiments.

All though I have no doubt a light plane flying through a heavy jet wash would be in all sorts of trouble, it can’t be directly compared to the Mythbusters experiment. A) the MB experiment had a stationary jet so the full jet exhaust speed was put into the car, but a real jet has forward motion which reduces that. B) the MB experiment had no aircraft wake, which was a ointment made in the previous discussion that this is more troublesome than exhaust wash. C) none of this thread supports the flame out statement that was put into question in the previous thread.

Ointment = point

Stealth said:

Ointment = point

we got it

Stealth said:

Ointment = point

That is one hell of a typo.

Skunkworks said:

Stealth said:

Ointment = point

That is one hell of a typo.

iOS is one hell of a PITA

Wake turbulence is very real; that’s why they have wake turbulence seperation standards. Could it flame-out a jet engine? I doubt it.

As someone pointed out, BTW, the thread has been talking about two different things: wake turbulence and jet blast. Both are very real and very dangerous… but in different situations.