Looking at some of my persistent cognitive problems (lack of focus, difficulty immersing myself in work that I really want to do, difficulty controlling eating etc), it’s occurred to me that Ritalin (methylphenidate) might be a useful stimulant in my situation. Whereas its effect on ADHD children is to calm them down etc, according to the writer linked below, “Instant release methylphenidate tends to have the exact opposite effect on adults; for some people it can literally turn their lives around by giving them energy, focus and motivation.” It also usually has a powerful appetite suppressant effect.

There are a few drawbacks, the most serious of which in my context would be its tendency to provoke feelings of anxiety in some users. But it seems to me it would be worth giving it a trial and see how I go. But are there any other side-effects not mentioned in the little summary linked, e.g. in relation to blood pressure etc? And is it addictive?

http://voices.yahoo.com/ritalin-methylphenidate-side-effects-adult-5684320.html?cat=5

Bubblecar said:

Looking at some of my persistent cognitive problems (lack of focus, difficulty immersing myself in work that I really want to do, difficulty controlling eating etc), it’s occurred to me that Ritalin (methylphenidate) might be a useful stimulant in my situation. Whereas its effect on ADHD children is to calm them down etc, according to the writer linked below, “Instant release methylphenidate tends to have the exact opposite effect on adults; for some people it can literally turn their lives around by giving them energy, focus and motivation.” It also usually has a powerful appetite suppressant effect.

There are a few drawbacks, the most serious of which in my context would be its tendency to provoke feelings of anxiety in some users. But it seems to me it would be worth giving it a trial and see how I go. But are there any other side-effects not mentioned in the little summary linked, e.g. in relation to blood pressure etc? And is it addictive?

http://voices.yahoo.com/ritalin-methylphenidate-side-effects-adult-5684320.html?cat=5

No.

Ta poik, it’s sounding worthwhile then. I’ll take it up with my GP.

For something more constructive you’ll have a helluva time getting it prescribed, it can be addictive as well.

Bubblecar said:

Ta poik, it’s sounding worthwhile then. I’ll take it up with my GP.

That was more a grumpy cat ‘No’, as in ‘no’ in general for adults with issues such as mentioned in OP.

mug the ruthless hanky-gang and steal theirs.

poikilotherm said:

For something more constructive you’ll have a helluva time getting it prescribed, it can be addictive as well.

Oh, I thought you were answering “no” to the questions I asked. But it seems you were saying “just no” :)

Dropbear said:

mug the ruthless hanky-gang and steal theirs.

even better – deal to them or take up meth manufacturing in the bicycle panniers.

Bubblecar Breaks Bad in Campbell Town.

>That was more a grumpy cat ‘No’, as in ‘no’ in general for adults with issues such as mentioned in OP.

I thought Ritalin was actually quite widely used by adult professionals & students wanting increased concentration on their work etc. But I’m only going by what I read on the internets.

neomyrtus_ said:

Dropbear said:

mug the ruthless hanky-gang and steal theirs.

even better – deal to them or take up meth manufacturing in the bicycle panniers.

Bubblecar Breaks Bad in Campbell Town.

I AM THE ONE WHO TRUNDLES

Noooooooooooooooootropics

Your symptoms suggest depression and you might find relief in that direction.

PermeateFree said:

Your symptoms suggest depression and you might find relief in that direction.

No, I’m not depressed.

RU OK?

Bubblecar said:

PermeateFree said:

Your symptoms suggest depression and you might find relief in that direction.

No, I’m not depressed.

You are not overactive either.

>RU OK?

Oh look, it’s vental bear from the holiday forum

You will find depression can be highly complex and does not only involve people sitting on the edge of the bed trying to summon up the will to get up and do something. Depression has many guises and what you describe is what many suffer and find relief in anti-depressants. You should have a chat with your GP.

With me, distraction, anxiety, inability to focus & concentrate etc are more of a problem than general lack of energy.

Maybe you can hire Arts to give you pep talks each day?

(Seriously – I also lack the focus to do the things I enjoy. Talk to the GP about your concerns. I know mine is depression, I probably should get drugs. In the meantime I push myself to take steps and atm I am soooo looking forward to making a paper mache bird tomorrow, that I might spend all night awake waiting for tomorrow.)

Ta kii, I will have a chat with the GP.

BTW – I am not saying it’s depression. That’s just what I deal with and it impacts my focus and concentration.

Bubblecar said:

With me, distraction, anxiety, inability to focus & concentrate etc are more of a problem than general lack of energy.

It can also be an imbalance of chemicals in the brain.

Pretty sure I’m not depressed :)

Bubblecar said:

Pretty sure I’m not depressed :)

Most depressed people don’t either.

>It can also be an imbalance of chemicals in the brain.

It’s undoubtedly a chemical thing, which is why I’m considering chemical intervention, and was thinking Ritalin sounds as though it might fit the bill (apart from the anxiety side-effect).

Bubblecar said:

>It can also be an imbalance of chemicals in the brain.

It’s undoubtedly a chemical thing, which is why I’m considering chemical intervention, and was thinking Ritalin sounds as though it might fit the bill (apart from the anxiety side-effect).

Anti-depressants alter the chemical imbalances in the brain. They are not tonics or general pick-me-ups.

Try the link

poikilotherm said:

Try the link

Mild anxiety on that one. I need to get properly into relaxation techniques, but medication that helps me actually concentrate & do things that I resolve to do would be a help with that, too :)

Hmmm…moderate for me :/

How would you see yourself (the problems you mentioned) if you reconstrued your view from the idea that ‘reluctance’ about life is normal. Serious question. A thought experiment.

transition said:

How would you see yourself (the problems you mentioned) if you reconstrued your view from the idea that ‘reluctance’ about life is normal. Serious question. A thought experiment.

I’d say I’m probably reluctant to allow myself immersion in my artistic work etc because getting distracted from it provides me with ways to occupy my anxieties, whereas the work itself requires enthusiastic and unfettered engagement. But then my apparent inability to take control and live the way I want to live contributes more anxiety :)

Don’t think self-analysis will get me far though. Chemical intervention of the right kind would probably be more helpful.

I think taking pills for everything is the way to go, it gives you control over your own body man, the authorities don’t want you to have the GOOD DRUGS MAN BECAUSE THEY WANT TO CONTROLL YOU, THAT’S THE WAY IT IS MAN.

>I’d say I’m probably reluctant to allow myself immersion in my artistic work etc because getting distracted from it provides me with ways to occupy my anxieties, whereas the work itself requires enthusiastic and unfettered engagement. But then my apparent inability to take control and live the way I want to live contributes more anxiety :)
Don’t think self-analysis will get me far though. Chemical intervention of the right kind would probably be more helpful.

I’d expect some significant portion of many apparent ‘difficulties’ (speaking in generalities, not of you – more to the chap that mentioned ‘depression’) are a social, cultural, even medical artifice, tending toward anything less that enthusiastic acceptance, participation and compliance having the subject see themselves as other-than-good-company (miserable). That the brush is so wide today it lends itself to ideology, quite a range of societal behaviour controls.

Reluctance and reticence are maybe less acceptable today. It’s as if frustration were mediated into normal reluctance, ‘understanding’ it in reverse to be a miserable lack of enthusiasm, towarding depressed mood description and chemical imbalance. But I wonder where description become prescription, venturing proscribed reluctance.

I mention it because the government campaign via TV to do with mental illness I believe is coming close to being for the purposes of ideological control.

Peak Warming Man said:

I think taking pills for everything is the way to go, it gives you control over your own body man, the authorities don’t want you to have the GOOD DRUGS MAN BECAUSE THEY WANT TO CONTROLL YOU, THAT’S THE WAY IT IS MAN.

Then there are other mental ailments that are beyond the help of medical science.

transition said:

>I’d say I’m probably reluctant to allow myself immersion in my artistic work etc because getting distracted from it provides me with ways to occupy my anxieties, whereas the work itself requires enthusiastic and unfettered engagement. But then my apparent inability to take control and live the way I want to live contributes more anxiety :)
Don’t think self-analysis will get me far though. Chemical intervention of the right kind would probably be more helpful.

I’d expect some significant portion of many apparent ‘difficulties’ (speaking in generalities, not of you – more to the chap that mentioned ‘depression’) are a social, cultural, even medical artifice, tending toward anything less that enthusiastic acceptance, participation and compliance having the subject see themselves as other-than-good-company (miserable). That the brush is so wide today it lends itself to ideology, quite a range of societal behaviour controls.

Reluctance and reticence are maybe less acceptable today. It’s as if frustration were mediated into normal reluctance, ‘understanding’ it in reverse to be a miserable lack of enthusiasm, towarding depressed mood description and chemical imbalance. But I wonder where description become prescription, venturing proscribed reluctance.

I mention it because the government campaign via TV to do with mental illness I believe is coming close to being for the purposes of ideological control.

I don’t think anti-depressants or the promotion of anti-depressants have any control over a person at all. They just make you feel better and able gain better control over your life. To think otherwise is fantasy.

I’d like to talk to you today about gherkins if I may, we haven’t talked about them for a long time.
What I noticed while shopping today was that they were all imported, or bottled in Australia from imported gherkins, so I didn’t buy any.

>I don’t think anti-depressants or the promotion of anti-depressants have any control over a person at all. They just make you feel better and able gain better control over your life. To think otherwise is fantasy.

I am not sure I am that given to idealizations, or worse.

We do tend to live in a culture that elevates, perhaps even glorifies the chemical fix. And these neuro-chem helpers or ‘fixes’ are provided by industries, legal and otherwise.

transition said:

>I don’t think anti-depressants or the promotion of anti-depressants have any control over a person at all. They just make you feel better and able gain better control over your life. To think otherwise is fantasy.

I am not sure I am that given to idealizations, or worse.

We do tend to live in a culture that elevates, perhaps even glorifies the chemical fix. And these neuro-chem helpers or ‘fixes’ are provided by industries, legal and otherwise.

But you don’t get high on anti-depressants, plus they take many days or even weeks to become effective. So I really don’t see how you can say they are a driving influence on our lives. They are not compulsory, you only take them if you think they are doing you some good. Being depressed and lacking motivation are not pleasant, unless you are suggesting that the government and big business are responsible for the chemical imbalance in the first place.

>But you don’t get high on anti-depressants, plus they take many days or even weeks to become effective. So I really don’t see how you can say they are a driving influence on our lives.

Consider the initial thought experiment I put to the Car.

The proposition was that there maybe healthy amounts of ‘reluctance’ about this and that to do with life, and that abnormalizing that may tend people to be more miserable that what they otherwise may be.

transition said:

>But you don’t get high on anti-depressants, plus they take many days or even weeks to become effective. So I really don’t see how you can say they are a driving influence on our lives.

Consider the initial thought experiment I put to the Car.

The proposition was that there maybe healthy amounts of ‘reluctance’ about this and that to do with life, and that abnormalizing that may tend people to be more miserable that what they otherwise may be.

Depression is not about having a miserable day or two and you need to get a quick fix. It is simply not like that. It happens over a period of time when life begins to lack substance and you lose interest in things you once found engaging. Life becomes a drag, which does not mean you become suicidal, but it becomes less interesting, even dull with no improvement over time.

>Depression is not about having a miserable day or two and you need to get a quick fix. It is simply not like that. It happens over a period of time when life begins to lack substance and you lose interest in things you once found engaging. Life becomes a drag, which does not mean you become suicidal, but it becomes less interesting, even dull with no improvement over time.

Yeah.

I am getting at why, for some people, the chemical reward pump bottoms out, down-regulated, and the question of why. I don’t accept that everyone that is ‘depressed’ is naturally predisposed by something biological, be it brought on ny something environmental or whatever.

Some of it must be cultural, or induced by.

transition said:

>Depression is not about having a miserable day or two and you need to get a quick fix. It is simply not like that. It happens over a period of time when life begins to lack substance and you lose interest in things you once found engaging. Life becomes a drag, which does not mean you become suicidal, but it becomes less interesting, even dull with no improvement over time.

Yeah.

I am getting at why, for some people, the chemical reward pump bottoms out, down-regulated, and the question of why. I don’t accept that everyone that is ‘depressed’ is naturally predisposed by something biological, be it brought on ny something environmental or whatever.

Some of it must be cultural, or induced by.

It is certainly influenced by adverse life experiences, but I don’t think you can manufacture the symptoms of depression simply to comply with social pressure or what others think. Depression still has stigma attached to it with many very reluctant to admit they have it, or associate with people that do. It is not an advantage in today’s society to have depression.

>It is certainly influenced by adverse life experiences, but I don’t think you can manufacture the symptoms of depression simply to comply with social pressure or what others think”

Society certainly comes with ‘expectations’. Ambition is substantially tied to achievement, success, that sort of thing.

Tell me there’s not one person in your home country that hasn’t burnt out from overwork and or sleep deprivation.

Conversely , tell me there’s not a single non-working mother in your home country who is less able to enjoy a ‘homemaker lifestyle’ because its value has been culturally altered.

Tell me no depression is caused by the morgage treadmill, or climbing the hill, so to speak.

GDP and pie growth are no insignificant force.

I think most would accept that societal expectations can play a role in mood disorders but regardless, it is easier to medicate one person than expect society to change to a warm and forgiving place overnight

transition said:

>It is certainly influenced by adverse life experiences, but I don’t think you can manufacture the symptoms of depression simply to comply with social pressure or what others think”

Society certainly comes with ‘expectations’. Ambition is substantially tied to achievement, success, that sort of thing.

Tell me there’s not one person in your home country that hasn’t burnt out from overwork and or sleep deprivation.

Conversely , tell me there’s not a single non-working mother in your home country who is less able to enjoy a ‘homemaker lifestyle’ because its value has been culturally altered.

Tell me no depression is caused by the morgage treadmill, or climbing the hill, so to speak.

GDP and pie growth are no insignificant force.

From what you mention, I don’t think any of those cause depression. Depression is not about overcoming periodic events in life, but more what happens when you don’t or more importantly can’t overcome them. It is more about the difference between hope and hopelessness.

>From what you mention, I don’t think any of those cause depression. Depression is not about overcoming periodic events in life, but more what happens when you don’t or more importantly can’t overcome them. It is more about the difference between hope and hopelessness”

I don’t have any fixed ideas re the matter, just been chucking arround the idea for a while that the apparatus may tend to cast the net wide for other or additional purposes.

transition said:

>From what you mention, I don’t think any of those cause depression. Depression is not about overcoming periodic events in life, but more what happens when you don’t or more importantly can’t overcome them. It is more about the difference between hope and hopelessness”

I don’t have any fixed ideas re the matter, just been chucking arround the idea for a while that the apparatus may tend to cast the net wide for other or additional purposes.

Depression covers a large range of mental conditions, with the concept of suicidal people being very much at one extreme, although one can travel there if there is no relief. There are other mental conditions that are not exactly brought about by depression, but can also be helped with anti-depressant medication. Dealing with the mind is far from easy and being readily identified, as we are all individuals with individual life experiences and discovering causes, unless dramatic, impossible. If only dealing with the mind were like mending a broken leg, life would be so much easier.

Get the impression the car has an idea of where to find the bubbles in his own wetware, should he miserably fail I have couple electrodes, with three-pin plug attached, to place across his head. Liven the fella up a bit, have him promising never to be unfocussed again.

:)

“Depression has many guises and what you describe is what many suffer and find relief in anti-depressants”

are there different anti – depressants for the different guises of depression?

>“Depression has many guises and what you describe is what many suffer and find relief in anti-depressants”

I’m really not depressed, though :) Those with depression might be faced with similar problems, but their medications might be inappropriate for me.

The symptoms I described are probably mostly related to inflated levels of background anxiety causing distraction and difficulty focusing on enjoying life the way I want. Some degree of background stress is associated with my schizoid personality (which I rarely mention ‘cos I’m a “secret schizoid” – look it up :)) but possibly inflated by chemical changes associated with “male menopause”, combined with interacting too much on the internet. Some sort of medication in conjunction with relaxation techniques might be all I need, but it’s got to be the right kind of medication.

Arts said:

“Depression has many guises and what you describe is what many suffer and find relief in anti-depressants”

are there different anti – depressants for the different guises of depression?

There are different formulations, so presumably some would be more effective for some ailments. A lot is simply trial and error until you find the best for you, although the professionals can usually come close first time. However some medications can become less effective over time and different meds are sort to tackle the problem from a slightly different direction.

If you think it might help you Bubblecar, there is no harm in talking to your doctor about it- probably better than talking to us. :)

If you want a Dr to prescribe speed you will have to convince him you are suicidal about your weight.

If you want to concentrate better give up TV and spend less time on the computer, most of us are overloaded will useless information to the point of distraction.

You may think you are mindlessly watching TV or reading all the dribble in “chat” but it’s not at all mindless, your brain is taking it all in and processing it all, the chances are good that this is interfering with your ability to concentrate on things that are important to you.

>…..it is easier to medicate one person than expect society to change…”

https://www.mja.com.au/journal/2004/181/7/making-new-choices-about-antidepressants-australia-long-view-1975-2002

“..We have previously reported on a sharp increase in antidepressant prescriptions dispensed in the community that occurred in the 1990s in Australia (from 5.1 million in 1990 to 8.2 million in 1998) with the introduction of the selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors and other new antidepressants…”

“..Overall trends in antidepressant prescribing
From 1975 to 1990, the market was extremely stable (only a 19% overall increase) at about 10 DDDs/1000/day, with an average growth rate of 1.1% per year (range, − 5.7% to 9.1%) (Box 1).

From 1990 to 2002, antidepressant use increased by 352%, to reach 51.5 DDDs/1000/day. Over this period the average annual growth rate was 13.4% (range, − 2.6% in the first year of selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor sales to 29% in 1995). After 1995, the annual rate of growth declined to 6.6% in 2002…”

“..Antidepressant use was stable from 1975 to 1990, a pattern that is typical of a mature market. From 1991 to 2002, the data show an early period of substantial growth in the market, coinciding with the entry of a major new class of compounds, namely the SSRIs, and later the serotonin–noradrenaline reuptake inhibitors and other new antidepressants. Prescribers quickly favoured the newer agents over the older ones. This preference may have reflected the importance that GPs place on the better tolerability of the newer antidepressants. 10 A major advantage of the newer antidepressants is the lack of anticholinergic, cardiovascular and other adverse effects, which were a major limitation of the TCAs…”

“..Nevertheless, it is evident that the availability of and the subsidised access to these new pharmacological agents encouraged more doctors to diagnose and treat depression over the period. 2 The rapid uptake of newer antidepressants during the early 1990s was accompanied by a decrease of only 35% in the use of the TCAs. This supports the view that the major users of the newer antidepressants were patients previously untreated with any antidepressant rather than those changing from the older drugs. However, these data cannot inform us as to whether the appropriate patients are being treated with antidepressants…”

It appears around 11% of Americans over age 12 take antidepressants.

transition said:

It appears around 11% of Americans over age 12 take antidepressants.

Are you really surprised? I would have thought most would have been due to the way they run the place.

>Are you really surprised? I would have thought most would have been due to the way they run the place”

Not much surprises me, though just rarely I have a spontaneous erection, not today or this week as it goes.

Apart from the original post. I have not yet read through the thread.

but…

Often the aim of amphetamines in some children is to attempt to reduce the impact of lifelong experienced symptons of ADD, ADHD and perhaps Dyspraxia.

There is a group of young people where medically prescribed amphetamines like dexamphetamine and ritalin where drug exposure in utero may have been the cause of the symptons that match a diagnosis of ADD, ADHD and perhaps Dyspraxia.

So already there is a separation of treatment options.

In children who have a developing brain and the term “plastine” is used may benefit from having the “switches” in their brains turned on and kept turned on via the “support” drug therapy usage of prescribed “controlled” dosages of dex or ritalin (often) .

As the child develops the connections in the brain remain connected and may aid the overall development of the brain cognitively and socially as the brain has a support to make the neurons connect and remain connected. That is the biggest hurdle for a person with the symptons as the chemical bonds ( my choice of descriptive words) needs assistance there is a chemical that drops out daily within the bonds of connection (synapsis) which is why the person continues to have symptons of a younger impulsive person the brain has a hurdle to mature chemically based,

As the child ages the needs for meds may be reduced and the need may lessen more so as that person reaches 25 years as a guide. Often depends on the severity of the symptons.

I have met with one adult older than I am bubblecar who was diagnosed late in life and was deemed to be within the parameters of stimulant drug therapy support to aid to enhance their daily capacity to function. May I say I would be hesitant to see them not medicated and he definitely displayed the symptons of impulsivity as did his children (which is common to have the genetic aspect present).

However, Ritalin and dexamphetamine are both controlled substances within Australia and the medication must be registered by your treating doctor to the point each time you present a script to your chemist the frequency is strictly monitored!

So if you feel you need this support and that perhaps a diagnosis has been missed. I suggest you speak with your GP and then you will be referred for assessment most likely. If there is a diagnosis they may discuss options with you. Most adults are not prescribed the amphetamine drug therapy as the brain is not thought to be plastine enough to benefit as is the known benefits earlier in life.

But….. as I indicated above some people have the “need” and “need” the dug therapy support throughout adult life to engage in daily activities like work etc etc

More than 50 years research has been done into the effectiveness of amphetamines to reduce impulsivity symptons in children and the potential to enhance opportunities to learn and retain newly presented information to aid that person’s education.

There is a group of young people where medically prescribed amphetamines like dexamphetamine and ritalin where drug exposure in utero may have been the cause of the symptons that match a diagnosis of ADD, ADHD and perhaps Dyspraxia.

I should add that amphetamines are not likely to assist in this scenario.

So already there is a separation of treatment options.