I’m looking to upgrade some PC RAM.

The motherboard takes DDR2 SDRAM. 240 pin. I’ve got two DIMM slots.

Looking at various RAM deals, I’m trying to figure out if there will be noticeable difference between RAM that is 800 MHz versus 667 versus 553. Would I notice the difference with, for example, 2 × 2GB at 667 versus 2 × 2GB at 800?

Lolz, skippy has made his appearance early.

Disregard previous.

Obviousman said:

I’m looking to upgrade some PC RAM.

The motherboard takes DDR2 SDRAM. 240 pin. I’ve got two DIMM slots.

Looking at various RAM deals, I’m trying to figure out if there will be noticeable difference between RAM that is 800 MHz versus 667 versus 553. Would I notice the difference with, for example, 2 × 2GB at 667 versus 2 × 2GB at 800?

Stolen from some internet forum:

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1073189-How-much-does-RAM-speed-matter

In most cases, ram speed difference won’t be noticeable at all. if you compare e.g. DDR3-1333 and DDR3-1600 in games, most of the time you wouldn’t be even able to measure the difference, let alone feel it.

There are however some situations, where ram speed can make a (little) difference
- Very memory heavy applications in the professional environment.
Such as Databases, Extreme (!) Excel spreadsheets, virtual machines, high-end 3D-modeling, … But even there the ram speed is of little significance, but the amount you have. And in those situations, you mostly use ECC or Buffered RAM, which seldom comes in other speeds than the standard one.
- Shared memory graphics.
Most integrated graphics (e.g. intel sandy bridge or older chipset graphics) do not really benefit from faster ram, because the integrated gpus are so slow, that they can’t fully use the available bandwidth.
The newer AMD APUs however have such a powerful gpu, that they benefit nearly linear from the ram speed (up to a certain point). Can’t exactly remember, but i think the A3850 got about 18% higher video speed from going 1333 -> 1600 MHz. After >2000MHz the speed didn’t really increase anymore, but before that it was significant!

P.S.:
The difference between DDR2-800 and DDR3-1600 isn’t that big like you would think on the first glance. To fully understand the difference you need to keep some things in mind:

1) The clock frequency specified is only an “effective” frequency, which consist of a base clock and a multiplier. Both DDR2-800 and DDR3-1600 have the same base clock of 200MHz.

2) The time a certain operation needs, is heavily dependent on the CAS latency.
Typical DDR2-800 has CL-5, which means certain operations need 2*5 / 800MHz = 12.5ns
Typical DDR3-1600 has CL-9, which translates to 2*9 / 1600MHz = 11.25ns

3) The overall bandwidth the ram can produce, which would be:
DDR2-800: 6.4 GBit/s
DDR3-1600: 12.8 GBit/s

The speed of your ram consists mainly of 2) and 3), but as far as i know, 2) is more important.

Thanks for that, Kingy – exactly what I was after.

Obviousman said:

Thanks for that, Kingy – exactly what I was after.

It had to be more helpful than my previous comments :)

I think the ram bus limits the amount of information that can flow – you can increase the ram but the overall speed might not be affected very much

I have upgraded the ram on an old PC I had years ago, it did speed the PC up a little but not by much

a motherboard is normally put together in such a way that all the components are working together in a certain way at a certain speed, as time gone by what you can really do has become I reckon.

you could always have a go at overclocking the chip and create a cooling system for the cpu, that might speed things up

i’m not an expert on this but my understanding is that very much like pimping cars, you can dress the car up or change the exhaust and bore out the engine but the engine isn’t designed for these changes

you’d be better off getting something new

the cpu , north and south chips, buses would be designed for a certain level of info flow regardless of the RAM

unless its designed to allow an upgrade of RAM I wouldn’t bother

I’m trying to utilise the systems I have and upgrade where possible at the most cost effective way.

For instance, I have a homebuilt PC with a Soltek SL-75KAV mobo. It has an Athalon 2200 CPU running at 1.9GHz and overclocked with RedStorm. It had 768MB of RAM PC133 SDRAM (1 × 512, 1 × 256). It has about a 45GB HDD.

This is hooked to my TV, with WinXP and WinAmp as the media player is my “media centre’. I have a 500GB HDD attached with all my audio and video.

For $12 I ordered 2 × 512MB sticks of RAM, allowing me to get it up to 1.5GB (the max supported by the mobo). The board won’t support a higher CPU so I am maxed out with that one.

My main office PC is running an Athalon II X2 245 CPU at 2.9GHz with 2GB of DDR2 RAM (1 stick). Since I use that one for the occasional video and audio editing, I want to upgrade the RAM. The doco says it has been tested up to 16GB (2 × 8GB). This RAM isn’t cheap though, so it will cost anywhere from $50-$150 (if I want 2 × 4GB).

I have two spare PCs in the garage, both Dell systems: a Dimension 2400 and an Optiplex 210L. Both run Pentium P4 2.8GHz CPUs, both with 75GB HDDs. One has 512MB of RAM, the other has 1GB DDR2.

I thought about replacing my media centre with one of those but because they are Dell they don’t really support upgrades. I could get one up to 1.5GB RAM and with a higher CPU speed and larger HDD would seem to make it a candidate… but the existing one (Soltek) has a far better video card. The video card is AGP, though, so I can’t move it to one of the Dells.

I also would like to use one as a media centre for the patio, either out in the open but under the patio, or in the garage with a long (10M) audio lead from the PC to the stereo.

So…. I’m planning to upgrade the office PC RAM (to a minimum of 4GB, preferably 8 or 16GB); I don’t think I can upgrade the CPU.

The Soltek will remain as it is (1.9GHz CPU, 1.5GB RAM) and the 1GB Dell will become the outside media centre.

oh – I also have two laptops. Once I get some software installed on the newer one, the older one will become surplus. I could make that one the outside media centre, simply taking it outside as required.

That means I’ll have the P4 PCs spare. I’m wondering how I could use them?

Obviousman said:

oh – I also have two laptops. Once I get some software installed on the newer one, the older one will become surplus. I could make that one the outside media centre, simply taking it outside as required.

That means I’ll have the P4 PCs spare. I’m wondering how I could use them?

Fancy fish tanks.

I also would like to use one as a media centre for the patio, either out in the open but under the patio, or in the garage with a long (10M) audio lead from the PC to the stereo.
—-
I indicated earlier in the thread that I transmit to my stereo, using one of those in-car MP3 player-to-radio FM transmitters. Works well. So, wireless from storage to computer and wireless from computer to stereo. It’s around 10 metres, through walls etc.

Have you considered using a Linux-based solution? There are several Linux distros that are very lightweight in terms of RAM & HD requirements that can run well on older computers, and because they are lightweight can be much more efficient than WinXP.

My favourite lightweight distro is Puppy Linux, which was originally developed by an Australian, Barry Kauler. It’s so small (~ 128 MB) that the entire OS can load into RAM on bootup, so applications load at lightning speed. And Puppy was designed to be easy for users to customise – if you want to make a super-lightweight specialised version of Puppy you can just delete unwanted apps and then use a simple main menu wizard to create a new Puppy installation disk.

See http://puppylinux.org/main/Overview%20and%20Getting%20Started.htm
Here’s a little demo of Boxee Media Center running on Puppy Linux 5.1

Also, there are several Linux distros (both lightweight & more full-featured) that are specifically aimed at being used as media centres; I hear that Mythbuntu (a Ubuntu variant) is quite popular. See here for a quick overview:
http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/5-great-linux-media-cente-distributions-transform-tv/

Also see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10-foot_user_interface
and
http://www.mythtv.org/

Michael V said:

I also would like to use one as a media centre for the patio, either out in the open but under the patio, or in the garage with a long (10M) audio lead from the PC to the stereo.
—-
I indicated earlier in the thread that I transmit to my stereo, using one of those in-car MP3 player-to-radio FM transmitters. Works well. So, wireless from storage to computer and wireless from computer to stereo. It’s around 10 metres, through walls etc.

I’ll look at that. I’m still going to look at using the older laptop as the media centre but running one of the P4s from the garage is certainly an option.

Is there a link for the device you used?

PM 2Ring said:

Have you considered using a Linux-based solution? There are several Linux distros that are very lightweight in terms of RAM & HD requirements that can run well on older computers, and because they are lightweight can be much more efficient than WinXP.

My favourite lightweight distro is Puppy Linux, which was originally developed by an Australian, Barry Kauler. It’s so small (~ 128 MB) that the entire OS can load into RAM on bootup, so applications load at lightning speed. And Puppy was designed to be easy for users to customise – if you want to make a super-lightweight specialised version of Puppy you can just delete unwanted apps and then use a simple main menu wizard to create a new Puppy installation disk.

See http://puppylinux.org/main/Overview%20and%20Getting%20Started.htm
Here’s a little demo of Boxee Media Center running on Puppy Linux 5.1

Also, there are several Linux distros (both lightweight & more full-featured) that are specifically aimed at being used as media centres; I hear that Mythbuntu (a Ubuntu variant) is quite popular. See here for a quick overview:
http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/5-great-linux-media-cente-distributions-transform-tv/

Also see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10-foot_user_interface
and
http://www.mythtv.org/

I’ve been thinking about that; I’ve never used Linux so it would be good to become familiar with it. The only down side is I’d still like to have the ability to run various apps from the computer: Orbiter, Flight Sim, etc. I’m prepared to lose that ability, though. The only thing I do need is browser access – I streams some podcasts. As I type, however, I am downloading XBMC media centre software; gets a good report. If I like it I may then convert to PC to Linux and still can run the XBMC software.

I got a cheap one from Hardly Normal. Brand: Cygnett. ~$50

If you use ebay, they can be gotten from China for under $10.

I’ll look for a link.

I have one of those too but screwed if I can remember where I got it from or for how much.

http://www.harveynorman.com.au/cygnett-groovetrip-ii-mini-fm-transmitter-for-mp-players-ipod-iphone.html

So you plug it into your media centre, it transmits an FM signal and you pick it up on your FM receiver?

Yes.

Obviousman said:

PM 2Ring said:

Have you considered using a Linux-based solution? There are several Linux distros that are very lightweight in terms of RAM & HD requirements that can run well on older computers, and because they are lightweight can be much more efficient than WinXP.

I’ve been thinking about that; I’ve never used Linux so it would be good to become familiar with it. The only down side is I’d still like to have the ability to run various apps from the computer: Orbiter, Flight Sim, etc. I’m prepared to lose that ability, though. The only thing I do need is browser access – I streams some podcasts. As I type, however, I am downloading XBMC media centre software; gets a good report. If I like it I may then convert to PC to Linux and still can run the XBMC software.

Most Linux distros these days go out of their way to make Windows users comfortable. Full-fledged distros like Ubuntu (and its variants) are probably a bit more newbie-friendly than Puppy, since it may be necessary to play with the command-line in Puppy if you want to tinker with settings for unusual hardware drivers, etc. OTOH, the Puppy community is pretty helpful & enthusiastic, and it’s fairly easy to find solutions or get help on the Puppy forums. And because Puppy is so small, it’s easier to learn and there’s less to go wrong. :)

…

Software for Linux distros is generally made available through software repositories (aka “repos”). These work a bit like Windows Updates, except that they’re for all your software, not just the OS stuff. Your computer interacts with the repos through an application called a package manager. The different Linux distro families use different packaging systems, although it’s not too hard to import “alien” packages from other repos if you really want to.

The package manager can automatically alert you when upgrades are available, and you can use it at any time to get a quick overview of what software you have installed and what other packages are available. The package manager ensures that whatever software you install is compatible with your system, and will ask your permission if it’s necessary to upgrade libraries for software you intend to upgrade or install.

Puppy Linux has its own specialised package system, but it can also access the wider range of software available in the Ubuntu repos.

…

As you guessed, running Windows software (like games) on a Linux system is not possible, unless you want to run a Windows emulator (which kinda negates the whole “running Linux as a lightweifght alternative to Windows” thingy :) ). On the upside, it means that Windows viruses won’t run on it either, and Linux viruses are virtually unknown, and almost impossible to install without user co-operation. Of course, malware that targets browsers is still a possibility (but I’ve never personally experienced such a thing in over 8 years of Linux use).

…

Net access from *nix systems should not be a problem. After all, the Internet was originally designed around the Unix operating system. So Net-aware applications on *nix can often be more compact (and easier to write hence less likely to be bug-prone) than Windows applications.

However, if you have an obscure Wireless adapter that was designed specifically for Windows, it _can _ be a little tricky getting it to run on *nix. OTOH, a lot of work has been put into resolving that issue, and most Linux installers these days come with a wide range of drivers for popular hardware; if worse comes to worse, it’s even possible to use Windows drivers for Wireless modems under Linux, although it can be slightly fiddly to set up.

Obviousman said:

So you plug it into your media centre, it transmits an FM signal and you pick it up on your FM receiver?

Yes. Plugged into earphone jack of computer. Transmits FM. Received by FM receiver at the stereo.

Michael V said:

Obviousman said:

So you plug it into your media centre, it transmits an FM signal and you pick it up on your FM receiver?

Yes. Plugged into earphone jack of computer. Transmits FM. Received by FM receiver at the stereo.

Now all you need is some way of sending control signals back to the computer…

PM 2Ring said:

Michael V said:

Obviousman said:

So you plug it into your media centre, it transmits an FM signal and you pick it up on your FM receiver?

Yes. Plugged into earphone jack of computer. Transmits FM. Received by FM receiver at the stereo.

Now all you need is some way of sending control signals back to the computer…

Sorry, I don’t get it.

PM 2Ring said:

Michael V said:

Obviousman said:

So you plug it into your media centre, it transmits an FM signal and you pick it up on your FM receiver?

Yes. Plugged into earphone jack of computer. Transmits FM. Received by FM receiver at the stereo.

Now all you need is some way of sending control signals back to the computer…

I have an infrared remote with a usb receiver that would be ideal for that. It was cheap, so you should be able to find one online.

Michael V said:

PM 2Ring said:

Michael V said:

Yes. Plugged into earphone jack of computer. Transmits FM. Received by FM receiver at the stereo.

Now all you need is some way of sending control signals back to the computer…

Sorry, I don’t get it.

So you can choose songs without having to physically go to the computer.

PM 2Ring said:

Michael V said:

PM 2Ring said:

Now all you need is some way of sending control signals back to the computer…

Sorry, I don’t get it.

So you can choose songs without having to physically go to the computer.

Ah. I see. I just have playlists and tell it to play random music. Works well, and keeps me amused. In any case, I am often at the computer…

Forget about wasting money on more RAM. Put your funds toward a SSD as a system drive. Then the machine will fly. An SSD is the best upgrade that you can make. Keep your old hard drive in the machine as a storage drive.

fsm said:

Forget about wasting money on more RAM. Put your funds toward a SSD as a system drive. Then the machine will fly. An SSD is the best upgrade that you can make. Keep your old hard drive in the machine as a storage drive.

Why is that? And would that work for my netbook?

Michael V said:

fsm said:

Forget about wasting money on more RAM. Put your funds toward a SSD as a system drive. Then the machine will fly. An SSD is the best upgrade that you can make. Keep your old hard drive in the machine as a storage drive.

Why is that? And would that work for my netbook?

A lot of netbooks came with an SSD MV.

Michael V said:

Why is that? And would that work for my netbook?

An SSD is fast, not just fast, but insanely fast. An SSD will make your computer work the way that you first imagined that computers should. SSDs use less power, they run cool, you can drop them on concrete or run them over in your car and they will still work – SSDs are rugged. Check out this article in PCMag…SSD vs HDD: What’s the Difference?

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2404258,00.asp

HDDs are still cheaper and so they make good storage drives, but put your system on an SSD and you will smile.

poikilotherm said:

Michael V said:

fsm said:

Forget about wasting money on more RAM. Put your funds toward a SSD as a system drive. Then the machine will fly. An SSD is the best upgrade that you can make. Keep your old hard drive in the machine as a storage drive.

Why is that? And would that work for my netbook?

A lot of netbooks came with an SSD MV.

The previous model to mine did, but mine has a normal drive.

fsm said:

Michael V said:

Why is that? And would that work for my netbook?

An SSD is fast, not just fast, but insanely fast. An SSD will make your computer work the way that you first imagined that computers should. SSDs use less power, they run cool, you can drop them on concrete or run them over in your car and they will still work – SSDs are rugged. Check out this article in PCMag…SSD vs HDD: What’s the Difference?

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2404258,00.asp

HDDs are still cheaper and so they make good storage drives, but put your system on an SSD and you will smile.

Thanks.

If I replaced the HDD with a SSD, how difficult is it to put the operating system etc on the new drive and make it all run fast?

(It’s an XP netbook and has become terribly slow for many tasks. That said, I installed MapInfo on it recently – I hadn’t before, because I thought it would never run that difficult program, as it doesn’t have a dedicated graphics chip – but MapInfo runs really well – fast and cleanly. I recently had about 50 layers running, including some huge jpgs, and it ran really, really well.)

(Oh, and the netbook didn’t come with disks – the original XP is on a partition that I don’t know how to get to.)

Michael V said:

If I replaced the HDD with a SSD, how difficult is it to put the operating system etc on the new drive and make it all run fast?

(It’s an XP netbook and has become terribly slow for many tasks. That said, I installed MapInfo on it recently – I hadn’t before, because I thought it would never run that difficult program, as it doesn’t have a dedicated graphics chip – but MapInfo runs really well – fast and cleanly. I recently had about 50 layers running, including some huge jpgs, and it ran really, really well.)

(Oh, and the netbook didn’t come with disks – the original XP is on a partition that I don’t know how to get to.)

Replacing the main drive (the one with the OS on it) can be a little tricky – the recommended methods involve using software that lets you create a disk image (basically the whole disk stuffed into one giant file) but I’ll let someone who knows about Windows discuss the fine details.

If your netbook has become slow you probably need to give it a good clean-up. Computers (generally) don’t slow down because the hardware’s getting old, they slow down because there’s vast amounts of useless files cluttering up the place. Do you use CCleaner regularly?

PM 2Ring said:

Michael V said:

If I replaced the HDD with a SSD, how difficult is it to put the operating system etc on the new drive and make it all run fast?

(It’s an XP netbook and has become terribly slow for many tasks. That said, I installed MapInfo on it recently – I hadn’t before, because I thought it would never run that difficult program, as it doesn’t have a dedicated graphics chip – but MapInfo runs really well – fast and cleanly. I recently had about 50 layers running, including some huge jpgs, and it ran really, really well.)

(Oh, and the netbook didn’t come with disks – the original XP is on a partition that I don’t know how to get to.)

Replacing the main drive (the one with the OS on it) can be a little tricky – the recommended methods involve using software that lets you create a disk image (basically the whole disk stuffed into one giant file) but I’ll let someone who knows about Windows discuss the fine details.

If your netbook has become slow you probably need to give it a good clean-up. Computers (generally) don’t slow down because the hardware’s getting old, they slow down because there’s vast amounts of useless files cluttering up the place. Do you use CCleaner regularly?

No, I don’t. That sort of stuff, I need to be led through. I don’t have the computer confidence to be a power user…

(I have used it, but only under instruction.)

Michael V said:

fsm said:

Michael V said:

Why is that? And would that work for my netbook?

An SSD is fast, not just fast, but insanely fast. An SSD will make your computer work the way that you first imagined that computers should. SSDs use less power, they run cool, you can drop them on concrete or run them over in your car and they will still work – SSDs are rugged. Check out this article in PCMag…SSD vs HDD: What’s the Difference?

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2404258,00.asp

HDDs are still cheaper and so they make good storage drives, but put your system on an SSD and you will smile.

Thanks.

If I replaced the HDD with a SSD, how difficult is it to put the operating system etc on the new drive and make it all run fast?

(It’s an XP netbook and has become terribly slow for many tasks. That said, I installed MapInfo on it recently – I hadn’t before, because I thought it would never run that difficult program, as it doesn’t have a dedicated graphics chip – but MapInfo runs really well – fast and cleanly. I recently had about 50 layers running, including some huge jpgs, and it ran really, really well.)

(Oh, and the netbook didn’t come with disks – the original XP is on a partition that I don’t know how to get to.)

Your best option would probably be to take it to a computer shop and tell them whack in a SSD and transfer your stuff across. Any half-arsed computer shop should be able to do it quite easily.

fsm said:

Michael V said:

fsm said:

An SSD is fast, not just fast, but insanely fast. An SSD will make your computer work the way that you first imagined that computers should. SSDs use less power, they run cool, you can drop them on concrete or run them over in your car and they will still work – SSDs are rugged. Check out this article in PCMag…SSD vs HDD: What’s the Difference?

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2404258,00.asp

HDDs are still cheaper and so they make good storage drives, but put your system on an SSD and you will smile.

Thanks.

If I replaced the HDD with a SSD, how difficult is it to put the operating system etc on the new drive and make it all run fast?

(It’s an XP netbook and has become terribly slow for many tasks. That said, I installed MapInfo on it recently – I hadn’t before, because I thought it would never run that difficult program, as it doesn’t have a dedicated graphics chip – but MapInfo runs really well – fast and cleanly. I recently had about 50 layers running, including some huge jpgs, and it ran really, really well.)

(Oh, and the netbook didn’t come with disks – the original XP is on a partition that I don’t know how to get to.)

Your best option would probably be to take it to a computer shop and tell them whack in a SSD and transfer your stuff across. Any half-arsed computer shop should be able to do it quite easily.

Thanks. :)