Date: 3/11/2013 08:16:06
From: Riff-in-Thyme
ID: 424183
Subject: Could Sparkling Glow-in-the-Dark Pavement Replace Street Lights?

“ “Ooooooh, preeetty- Stoner

Created by Pro-Teq, Starpath is a sprayable coating of light-absorbing particles that harvests ultra-violet rays from the sun during the day and dramatically lights up like a starry sky at night. The veneer is non-reflective, anti-slip and waterproof, and can be applied to cement, wood, tarmac or other solid surfaces.

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Date: 3/11/2013 08:38:55
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 424185
Subject: re: Could Sparkling Glow-in-the-Dark Pavement Replace Street Lights?

Very nice, every car should be painted with this.

I have glow-in-the-dark items all around my house (even glued to the ceiling) and these things glow extremely feebly at best and lose their glow almost completely in about 45 minutes.

I want to see a return to radium (or other radioactive eg. americium) powered night lighting.

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Date: 3/11/2013 09:00:28
From: Riff-in-Thyme
ID: 424188
Subject: re: Could Sparkling Glow-in-the-Dark Pavement Replace Street Lights?

mollwollfumble said:

I want to see a return to radium (or other radioactive eg. americium) powered night lighting.

There aren’t issues with providing public access to these materials en-masse?

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Date: 3/11/2013 09:01:47
From: Divine Angel
ID: 424189
Subject: re: Could Sparkling Glow-in-the-Dark Pavement Replace Street Lights?

Why have you got glow in the dark stuff glued to the ceiling?

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Date: 3/11/2013 09:02:14
From: Riff-in-Thyme
ID: 424190
Subject: re: Could Sparkling Glow-in-the-Dark Pavement Replace Street Lights?

Divine Angel said:


Why have you got glow in the dark stuff glued to the ceiling?

cause its AWESOME!!!!

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Date: 3/11/2013 09:02:40
From: Riff-in-Thyme
ID: 424191
Subject: re: Could Sparkling Glow-in-the-Dark Pavement Replace Street Lights?

:P

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Date: 3/11/2013 09:36:11
From: stumpy_seahorse
ID: 424196
Subject: re: Could Sparkling Glow-in-the-Dark Pavement Replace Street Lights?

Riff-in-Thyme said:


Divine Angel said:

Why have you got glow in the dark stuff glued to the ceiling?

cause its AWESOME!!!!

+1

:)

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Date: 3/11/2013 10:46:18
From: Bubblecar
ID: 424215
Subject: re: Could Sparkling Glow-in-the-Dark Pavement Replace Street Lights?

>Could Sparkling Glow-in-the-Dark Pavement Replace Street Lights?

No. It would probably be bright enough to show you where the path is, but wouldn’t illuminate much else.

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Date: 3/11/2013 10:54:33
From: Bubblecar
ID: 424216
Subject: re: Could Sparkling Glow-in-the-Dark Pavement Replace Street Lights?

I can see this stuff being of most appeal as a new material for graffitists to make a mess with.

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Date: 3/11/2013 10:59:12
From: Skunkworks
ID: 424217
Subject: re: Could Sparkling Glow-in-the-Dark Pavement Replace Street Lights?

I have seen that sort of stuff before and asked some questions about it. Was going to get some for the cactus garden.

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Date: 3/11/2013 11:01:41
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 424219
Subject: re: Could Sparkling Glow-in-the-Dark Pavement Replace Street Lights?

I got over glow in the dark stuff fifty years ago.

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Date: 3/11/2013 11:41:29
From: Riff-in-Thyme
ID: 424227
Subject: re: Could Sparkling Glow-in-the-Dark Pavement Replace Street Lights?

Peak Warming Man said:


I got over glow in the dark stuff fifty years ago.

very bad sign of being over-ripe human

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Date: 3/11/2013 14:46:21
From: wookiemeister
ID: 424313
Subject: re: Could Sparkling Glow-in-the-Dark Pavement Replace Street Lights?

Tritium

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Date: 3/11/2013 18:53:35
From: PM 2Ring
ID: 424494
Subject: re: Could Sparkling Glow-in-the-Dark Pavement Replace Street Lights?

mollwollfumble said:


Very nice, every car should be painted with this.

I have glow-in-the-dark items all around my house (even glued to the ceiling) and these things glow extremely feebly at best and lose their glow almost completely in about 45 minutes.

I want to see a return to radium (or other radioactive eg. americium) powered night lighting.

I hate to agree with Wookie, but I think tritium’s a better option.

Beta emitters (like tritium) are preferred for radioluminescence: it’s easier to trigger phosphors with beta particles than alpha particles, and alpha emitters have a tendency to also emit gamma, which degrades the phosphor. There are plenty of old clocks around that used to glow in the dark, but no longer do so, even though their radium-based paint is still more than active enough to set off a Geiger counter.

I have a tritium powered glow-in-the-dark key ring which is about 10 years old, so it’s lost almost half of its “glow power” (the half-life of tritium is 12.32 years), but it’s still easy to see at night.

The energy of the beta particles emitted by tritium averages around 5.7keV, making them much less energetic than the electrons fired at the screen of an old CRT TV or computer monitor (which used acceleration voltages typically around 20 kV, IIRC). However, as with CRT electrons there is some braking radiation production (which can include X-ray) when beta particles decelerate.

Unfortunately, the Americans aren’t happy with tritium being used commercially, since it can be used in thermonuclear devices.

A while ago, I saw a website advertising a new type of tritium glow paint. The tritium and phosphor is encapsulated in tiny beads, so the radiation hazard from it is minimal. But I can’t seem to find it today…

For more info, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tritium_illumination

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Date: 3/11/2013 18:55:55
From: Riff-in-Thyme
ID: 424497
Subject: re: Could Sparkling Glow-in-the-Dark Pavement Replace Street Lights?

this seems apt here

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Date: 3/11/2013 18:56:42
From: Divine Angel
ID: 424498
Subject: re: Could Sparkling Glow-in-the-Dark Pavement Replace Street Lights?

Riff-in-Thyme said:


this seems apt here

Do souls glow in the dark?

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Date: 3/11/2013 19:01:06
From: Riff-in-Thyme
ID: 424506
Subject: re: Could Sparkling Glow-in-the-Dark Pavement Replace Street Lights?

Divine Angel said:


Riff-in-Thyme said:

this seems apt here

Do souls glow in the dark?

if you expose them properly

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Date: 3/11/2013 20:24:24
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 424576
Subject: re: Could Sparkling Glow-in-the-Dark Pavement Replace Street Lights?

PM 2Ring said:


mollwollfumble said:

Very nice, every car should be painted with this.

I have glow-in-the-dark items all around my house (even glued to the ceiling) and these things glow extremely feebly at best and lose their glow almost completely in about 45 minutes.

I want to see a return to radium (or other radioactive eg. americium) powered night lighting.

> I hate to agree with Wookie, but I think tritium’s a better option. Beta emitters (like tritium) are preferred for radioluminescence: it’s easier to trigger phosphors with beta particles than alpha particles, and alpha emitters have a tendency to also emit gamma, which degrades the phosphor.

Yes, but beta rays are harder to block than alpha rays, which is one of the reasons that smoke alarms use Americium, which is obtained from high level nuclear waste. Where does the tritium come from, dismantled thermonuclear weapons?

> There are plenty of old clocks around that used to glow in the dark, but no longer do so, even though their radium-based paint is still more than active enough to set off a Geiger counter. The energy of the beta particles emitted by tritium averages around 5.7keV, making them much less energetic than the electrons fired at the screen of an old CRT

Noted. I didn’t know that.

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Date: 3/11/2013 20:45:11
From: PM 2Ring
ID: 424591
Subject: re: Could Sparkling Glow-in-the-Dark Pavement Replace Street Lights?

PM 2Ring said:

I hate to agree with Wookie, but I think tritium’s a better option. Beta emitters (like tritium) are preferred for radioluminescence: it’s easier to trigger phosphors with beta particles than alpha particles, and alpha emitters have a tendency to also emit gamma, which degrades the phosphor.

mollwollfumble said:

Yes, but beta rays are harder to block than alpha rays, which is one of the reasons that smoke alarms use Americium, which is obtained from high level nuclear waste.

True, beta is harder to block, all else being equal, but low energy beta isn’t that hard to block, and it’s not very dangerous. OTOH, alpha does have another advantage over beta: alpha emission energies tend to fall into a fairly narrow range, whereas beta are emitted over a wide energy range, since the emission energy gets shared between the electron and the antineutrino, and the angle between those two is a random variable.

mollwollfumble said:

Where does the tritium come from, dismantled thermonuclear weapons?

That does appear to be a major source. It’s not hard to make – just irradiate some lithium with neutrons by putting it into a fission reactor, eg as a replacement control rod. Preferably Li-6, although you can also make tritium from Li-7, if you have fast neutrons.

However, as I said earlier, the Americans tend to discourage people from making it these days.

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Date: 3/11/2013 21:22:27
From: wookiemeister
ID: 424621
Subject: re: Could Sparkling Glow-in-the-Dark Pavement Replace Street Lights?

PM 2Ring said:


PM 2Ring said:
I hate to agree with Wookie, but I think tritium’s a better option. Beta emitters (like tritium) are preferred for radioluminescence: it’s easier to trigger phosphors with beta particles than alpha particles, and alpha emitters have a tendency to also emit gamma, which degrades the phosphor.

mollwollfumble said:

Yes, but beta rays are harder to block than alpha rays, which is one of the reasons that smoke alarms use Americium, which is obtained from high level nuclear waste.

True, beta is harder to block, all else being equal, but low energy beta isn’t that hard to block, and it’s not very dangerous. OTOH, alpha does have another advantage over beta: alpha emission energies tend to fall into a fairly narrow range, whereas beta are emitted over a wide energy range, since the emission energy gets shared between the electron and the antineutrino, and the angle between those two is a random variable.

mollwollfumble said:

Where does the tritium come from, dismantled thermonuclear weapons?

That does appear to be a major source. It’s not hard to make – just irradiate some lithium with neutrons by putting it into a fission reactor, eg as a replacement control rod. Preferably Li-6, although you can also make tritium from Li-7, if you have fast neutrons.

However, as I said earlier, the Americans tend to discourage people from making it these days.


you can make neutrons by exposing polonium 210 to beryllium

my take on nuclear power for spacecraft would be using betavoltaics to extract power from decaying tritium or by converting having a tritium light source to a phosphor plate (tritium lighting)

this would be solid state, reliable power for interplanetary spacecraft anything else is whistling in the wind

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