Watching Mr Fry on QI…

He said the boiling point of water reduces by 1 degree C every 1000 Feet.

Such that the boiling point of water at the top of Everest is 70 degrees C.

That’s too neat for me.

Have they got their facts arse about?

What, and why, is the correlation between Feet and Centigrade?

Mr Ironic said:

Watching Mr Fry on QI…

He said the boiling point of water reduces by 1 degree C every 1000 Feet.

Such that the boiling point of water at the top of Everest is 70 degrees C.

That’s too neat for me.

Have they got their facts arse about?

What, and why, is the correlation between Feet and Centigrade?

Just a rough and ready coincidence.

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/boiling-points-water-altitude-d_1344.html

Mr Ironic said:

What, and why, is the correlation between Feet and Centigrade?

Probably just a happy coincidence to create a rough rule of thumb.

For whatever reason altitude is still commonly quoted in feet, particularly in aviation. When the UK made the transition from imperial to metric they didn’t fully convert, there’s still a few areas they didn’t convert. If they said 1C for every 305m it would still be exactly the same rule of thumb but it just wouldn’t look as neat.

Just a rough and ready coincidence.
——————————————————-

Really?

Funny you should say that…I don’t believe in coincidence.

So there’s guage pressure & absolute pressure, yes?

So let us just say 100kpa is absolute at sea level & at that temp 100 deg C is boiling point.

Subject water to a low pressure area of 75kpa absolute, what then is the boiling point?

If they said 1C for every 305m it would still be exactly the same rule of thumb but it just wouldn’t look as neat.
————————————————-

Yeah point taken, probably more like 984 F rounded up…

BP v P

Subject water to a low pressure area of 75kpa absolute, what then is the boiling point?
——————————————————-

Ahhh Ummmm 75…

Another point, how accurate are thermometers at higher altitudes?

I wasn’t exactly correct, but you do get the point, ol’ mate.

Another point, how accurate are thermometers at higher altitudes?

what do you see as a possible problem?

Another point, how accurate are thermometers at higher altitudes?

what do you see as a possible problem?
—————————————————————————

Well if they boiling point of water changes….

Why not the expansion rate of Mercury?

thermometers are a sealed unit so only the temp is of concern.

Are you wondering if this is plottable or not ERB?

Mr Ironic said:

Another point, how accurate are thermometers at higher altitudes?

what do you see as a possible problem?
—————————————————————————

Well if they boiling point of water changes….

Why not the expansion rate of Mercury?

Mercury thermometers are in a slead vacuum tube. The outside air pressure wont make a lot of difference to that vacuum.

‘erbs not here man. but give him thyme.

sage advice

Mr Ironic said:

Just a rough and ready coincidence.
——————————————————-

Really?

Funny you should say that…I don’t believe in coincidence.

That is your perogative, but scientific fact is not based on a belief system.

I thought I recogised his wonderful style. Please accept my appolgies if you ain’t my ol’ mate.

Mr Ironic said:

Ahhh Ummmm 75…

Another point, how accurate are thermometers at higher altitudes?

For the old fashion mercury or alcohol types it shouldn’t matter because they are sealed. I think they are sealed because the gas in the upper tube is pure nitrogen, possibly even at a partial vacuum.

That is your perogative, but scientific fact is not based on a belief system.

and with all the stuff out there, there is bound to be some coincidences.

better?

;-)

thermometers are a sealed unit so only the temp is of concern.
————————————————

Yeah, should have seen that.

I had a Jonathon Creek moment…

but scientific fact is not based on a belief system.
—————————————

Calm down we will get to the blowing smoke up your arse section soon enough…

I thought I recogised his wonderful style.
————————————————————-

FMD that’s a compliment.

The only one better was when DV said ‘wrong’ Don’t no why but ‘Wrong’

:-D

It’s actually more like 1.08 degrees per 1000 feet, at sea level.

At higher altitudes, the rate decreases. e.g. at 20000 feet, the bp drops by around 0.9 degrees per 1000 ft.

Another point, how accurate are thermometers at higher altitudes?

—

Quite accurate.

Quite accurate.
—————————-

OK Third and final question…

Is the ‘real’ temperature of air at the summit the same (similar) as that at sea level?

Just scarcer as is the air?

Mr Ironic said:

Quite accurate.
—————————-

OK Third and final question…

Is the ‘real’ temperature of air at the summit the same (similar) as that at sea level?

Just scarcer as is the air?

Temperature is temperature.

morrie said:

Temperature is temperature.

where ever it is measured?

roughbarked said:

morrie said:

Temperature is temperature.

where ever it is measured?

Yes.

Temperature is temperature.
——————————————————

Well yes when you are cheating by using a vacuumed flask…

So if you compressed the air at the summit back to sea level pressure…

It would be warm…

Mr Ironic said:

Temperature is temperature.
——————————————————

Well yes when you are cheating by using a vacuumed flask…

So if you compressed the air at the summit back to sea level pressure…

It would be warm…

If you heated it up with a candle it would be warm too.

Mr Ironic said:

Temperature is temperature.
——————————————————

Well yes when you are cheating by using a vacuumed flask…

So if you compressed the air at the summit back to sea level pressure…

It would be warm…

But that would be the heat of the pressure.

morrie said:

Mr Ironic said:

Temperature is temperature.
——————————————————

Well yes when you are cheating by using a vacuumed flask…

So if you compressed the air at the summit back to sea level pressure…

It would be warm…

If you heated it up with a candle it would be warm too.

The bit above the candle would be.

Temperature is a state function.

roughbarked said:

morrie said:

Temperature is temperature.

where ever it is measured?

except in Bridgetown, which is quite close to Donnybrook, where temperature is always colder than everywhere else.

morrie said:

roughbarked said:

morrie said:

Temperature is temperature.

where ever it is measured?

except in Bridgetown, which is quite close to Donnybrook, where temperature is always colder than everywhere else.

and the reasoning is?

If you heated it up with a candle it would be warm too.
——————————————-

So I’m right…ish.

The air is warmish but the more space around the air the more the temp is dispersed ergo and it reads cold.

Mr Ironic said:

If you heated it up with a candle it would be warm too.
——————————————-

So I’m right…ish.

ROFL

Mr Ironic said:

If you heated it up with a candle it would be warm too.
——————————————-

So I’m right…ish.

The air is warmish but the more space around the air the more the temp is dispersed ergo and it reads cold.

The temperature inside a cylinder of compressed air is the same at the temperature outside it.

roughbarked said:

morrie said:

roughbarked said:

where ever it is measured?

except in Bridgetown, which is quite close to Donnybrook, where temperature is always colder than everywhere else.

and the reasoning is?

In the Blackwood River valley.

morrie said:

Mr Ironic said:

If you heated it up with a candle it would be warm too.
——————————————-

So I’m right…ish.

The air is warmish but the more space around the air the more the temp is dispersed ergo and it reads cold.

The temperature inside a cylinder of compressed air is the same at the temperature outside it.

After the heat of compressing is given off ?

jjjust moi said:

roughbarked said:

morrie said:

except in Bridgetown, which is quite close to Donnybrook, where temperature is always colder than everywhere else.

and the reasoning is?

In the Blackwood River valley.

Thought as much. Fog Hollow.

boiling point is just where the liquid starts forming bubbles and escaping the liquid rapidly

something doesn’t need to feel warm to be boiling look at liquid nitrogen for example or dry ice

roughbarked said:

morrie said:

Mr Ironic said:

If you heated it up with a candle it would be warm too.
——————————————-

So I’m right…ish.

The air is warmish but the more space around the air the more the temp is dispersed ergo and it reads cold.

The temperature inside a cylinder of compressed air is the same at the temperature outside it.

After the heat of compressing is given off ?

yes

when you compress air you are giving energy to the air molecules, by compressing it you are also concentrating whatever heat there was into a smaller space (by my reckoning).

The temperature inside a cylinder of compressed air is the same at the temperature outside it.
——————————————————————

Well after settling for awhile, maybe…

Are you saying ‘Temp’ cannot be gained by pressure?

Adiabatic temperature gradient is a good starting point for a search on all this.

Nest time you are flying, you can try plotting temperature as a function of altitude, using the external instrumentation displayed on the video system.

temperature itself is really just how vigorously molecules / elements are moving around

the faster they move the higher the temperature

at absolute zero nothing moves

Adiabatic temperature gradient is a good starting point for a search on all this.
——————————————-

Ok, I’ll have a look, thanks for your patience.

wookiemeister said:

temperature itself is really just how vigorously molecules / elements are moving around

the faster they move the higher the temperature

at absolute zero nothing moves

Once the air is compressed into a container. the pressure stops the movement until someone opens the valve?

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

temperature itself is really just how vigorously molecules / elements are moving around

the faster they move the higher the temperature

at absolute zero nothing moves

Once the air is compressed into a container. the pressure stops the movement until someone opens the valve?

when you compress a gas the temp will go up BUT that temp of the compressed gas will fall back to ambient temp very quickly through heat loss through the walls of the container.

something doesn’t intrinsically have a high temp because it is under pressure

wookiemeister said:

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

temperature itself is really just how vigorously molecules / elements are moving around

the faster they move the higher the temperature

at absolute zero nothing moves

Once the air is compressed into a container. the pressure stops the movement until someone opens the valve?

when you compress a gas the temp will go up BUT that temp of the compressed gas will fall back to ambient temp very quickly through heat loss through the walls of the container.

something doesn’t intrinsically have a high temp because it is under pressure

Yes, this has been discussed.

In this case, we are not talking about a container of gas that has just undergone compression. Rather, we have a thermometer containing fluids at about 101 kPa, which has over some period being raised and is now surrounded by gas at some lower pressure.

The gas inside will be the same as the gas outside, unless the container itself is being heated by the sun’s rays, for instance.

I remember John Caley had trouble getting his head around this, reasoning that mercury must be at a higher temperature than its surroundings because it is molten metal.

I have had some victories over the last few days

i was kneeling down in the dirt with a motor clamped between my knees, very gingerly removing and putting back a circlip on a shaft with a screwdriver (no proper tool) , i managed to get this drive head on the shaft using my braisn and some basic hand tools too.

once i changed the motor over the thing worked perfectly

as a service tech i learnt years ago that when in doubt – change it out

you see this horrible situation where people soldier along scratching their head as to why something won’t work – staring at some crappy piece of equipment that’s installed on it.

if you are wrong it can always be put on something else – moreover it fixes the problem.

>as a service tech i learnt years ago that when in doubt – change it out

Whatever happened to ‘if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it’ ?

wookiemeister said:

if you are wrong it can always be put on something else – moreover it fixes the problem.

Only if it is the problem.

morrie said:

>as a service tech i learnt years ago that when in doubt – change it out

Whatever happened to ‘if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it’ ?

it takes too long and if it doesn’t fix the problem they’ll blame you

when i was fixing washing machines i’d always change the pump if i saw it was rusty – faulty pumps were the number one killer of F and P washing machines, the brains of the WM was the fuse.

you just go in, look for damaged parts and change them out

as a service tech you are being assessed on results and getting the job done quickly, using sometimes a few more parts is necessary collateral

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

if you are wrong it can always be put on something else – moreover it fixes the problem.

Only if it is the problem.

ah but by a process of elimination….

wookiemeister said:

morrie said:

>as a service tech i learnt years ago that when in doubt – change it out

Whatever happened to ‘if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it’ ?

it takes too long and if it doesn’t fix the problem they’ll blame you

when i was fixing washing machines i’d always change the pump if i saw it was rusty – faulty pumps were the number one killer of F and P washing machines, the brains of the WM was the fuse.

you just go in, look for damaged parts and change them out

as a service tech you are being assessed on results and getting the job done quickly, using sometimes a few more parts is necessary collateral

Faulty pumps are common on all brands of washing machine.. A lot of the time it is wear on the shaft.

wookiemeister said:

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

if you are wrong it can always be put on something else – moreover it fixes the problem.

Only if it is the problem.

ah but by a process of elimination….

Why change the whole thing when it may only be a bearing or a seal?

most machines have known faults

you start work with this in mind

i always start with “whats it doing, whats it not doing”

i don’t need to necessarily know what the machine does, the person who uses it will often give me enough information for me to go down a path of logical deduction for me to know what the problem is

yesterday i went into this installation to find a group of people that had been trying to work out why a device wasn’t working

i asked them this question, they couldn’t answer me – first clue

i then listened to what they were saying and watched what was going on

“hang on “ i said leaning in, you said that was 5 volts positive, why are you connecting it into a connection saying negative?

this is a polarity issue

there was a little resistance, the tech officer showed me the manual, i quickly pointed out the manual was showing open switch that was marked normally closed

i went back to my assertion that this was a polarity issue – this piqued the tech officers fancy and i sat back and watched the thing be fixed – the polarity was out of kilter with the operation of the device, 8 wires or so had to moved around and things started working

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

morrie said:

>as a service tech i learnt years ago that when in doubt – change it out

Whatever happened to ‘if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it’ ?

it takes too long and if it doesn’t fix the problem they’ll blame you

when i was fixing washing machines i’d always change the pump if i saw it was rusty – faulty pumps were the number one killer of F and P washing machines, the brains of the WM was the fuse.

you just go in, look for damaged parts and change them out

as a service tech you are being assessed on results and getting the job done quickly, using sometimes a few more parts is necessary collateral

Faulty pumps are common on all brands of washing machine.. A lot of the time it is wear on the shaft.

no idea

all i look for is rust or noisy, this is good enough, these kinds of pumps are throwaways

NEVER install a second hand pump on a working machine

morrie said:

Nest time you are flying, you can try plotting temperature as a function of altitude, using the external instrumentation displayed on the video system.

Don’t trust those video display systems. Just bash your shoe through the window and stick a wet finger outside…

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

roughbarked said:

Only if it is the problem.

ah but by a process of elimination….

Why change the whole thing when it may only be a bearing or a seal?

you’ll see leakage or hear noise with seals

i’m talking about things that can’t always be seen by the eye

electronic / electrical stuff can’t alaways be diagnosed by eye

if you aren’t in a workshop you have to go through some deductive process rather than waste time testing and evaluating

if you can ring someone even better

wookiemeister said:

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

it takes too long and if it doesn’t fix the problem they’ll blame you

when i was fixing washing machines i’d always change the pump if i saw it was rusty – faulty pumps were the number one killer of F and P washing machines, the brains of the WM was the fuse.

you just go in, look for damaged parts and change them out

as a service tech you are being assessed on results and getting the job done quickly, using sometimes a few more parts is necessary collateral

Faulty pumps are common on all brands of washing machine.. A lot of the time it is wear on the shaft.

no idea

all i look for is rust or noisy, this is good enough, these kinds of pumps are throwaways

NEVER install a second hand pump on a working machine

I’ve rebuilt the shaft on a water pump of a washing machine we had when we had a lot of nappies to wash. We didn’t have the money to throw away the pump.

wookiemeister said:

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

ah but by a process of elimination….

Why change the whole thing when it may only be a bearing or a seal?

you’ll see leakage or hear noise with seals

i’m talking about things that can’t always be seen by the eye

electronic / electrical stuff can’t alaways be diagnosed by eye

if you aren’t in a workshop you have to go through some deductive process rather than waste time testing and evaluating

if you can ring someone even better

But pumps are only part electrical.

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

roughbarked said:

Faulty pumps are common on all brands of washing machine.. A lot of the time it is wear on the shaft.

no idea

all i look for is rust or noisy, this is good enough, these kinds of pumps are throwaways

NEVER install a second hand pump on a working machine

I’ve rebuilt the shaft on a water pump of a washing machine we had when we had a lot of nappies to wash. We didn’t have the money to throw away the pump.

all i know was that on this machine the pump was the number killer

by changing the pump you keep the thing alive longer

the only time i ever went back to something i suspect the brains of the thing had bene scrambled OR the customer was doing something to make us replace it with a new one fr free

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

roughbarked said:

Why change the whole thing when it may only be a bearing or a seal?

you’ll see leakage or hear noise with seals

i’m talking about things that can’t always be seen by the eye

electronic / electrical stuff can’t alaways be diagnosed by eye

if you aren’t in a workshop you have to go through some deductive process rather than waste time testing and evaluating

if you can ring someone even better

But pumps are only part electrical.

true but in that case i couldn’t spend all day on it OR have to go back to it

i have to make sure its reliable

other people can be unlucky all day, i only have to be unlucky once for it to become a problem for me.

I’ve gone out with other people and given them a nudge in the right direction then they have ignored that nudge again and again

WTF are you thinking!!!! just change that fucking part you idiot!! i have to keep this inside my head

wookiemeister said:

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

no idea

all i look for is rust or noisy, this is good enough, these kinds of pumps are throwaways

NEVER install a second hand pump on a working machine

I’ve rebuilt the shaft on a water pump of a washing machine we had when we had a lot of nappies to wash. We didn’t have the money to throw away the pump.

all i know was that on this machine the pump was the number killer

by changing the pump you keep the thing alive longer

the only time i ever went back to something i suspect the brains of the thing had bene scrambled OR the customer was doing something to make us replace it with a new one fr free

Fisher and paykel pumps swap out easily but they aren’t an easy to throw away at $75 each.

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

roughbarked said:

I’ve rebuilt the shaft on a water pump of a washing machine we had when we had a lot of nappies to wash. We didn’t have the money to throw away the pump.

all i know was that on this machine the pump was the number killer

by changing the pump you keep the thing alive longer

the only time i ever went back to something i suspect the brains of the thing had bene scrambled OR the customer was doing something to make us replace it with a new one fr free

Fisher and paykel pumps swap out easily but they aren’t an easy to throw away at $75 each.

they are designed to fail

wookiemeister said:

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

you’ll see leakage or hear noise with seals

i’m talking about things that can’t always be seen by the eye

electronic / electrical stuff can’t alaways be diagnosed by eye

if you aren’t in a workshop you have to go through some deductive process rather than waste time testing and evaluating

if you can ring someone even better

But pumps are only part electrical.

true but in that case i couldn’t spend all day on it OR have to go back to it

i have to make sure its reliable

other people can be unlucky all day, i only have to be unlucky once for it to become a problem for me.

I’ve gone out with other people and given them a nudge in the right direction then they have ignored that nudge again and again

WTF are you thinking!!!! just change that fucking part you idiot!! i have to keep this inside my head

The thing you aren’t getting is that you are a washing machine repairer. Most people are happy to change the pump and get it working when the alternative is a new washing machine.
Watchmakers have to be able to return a three hundred year old clock back to working order. There are no replacement parts. They have to be hand made.

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

roughbarked said:

But pumps are only part electrical.

true but in that case i couldn’t spend all day on it OR have to go back to it

i have to make sure its reliable

other people can be unlucky all day, i only have to be unlucky once for it to become a problem for me.

I’ve gone out with other people and given them a nudge in the right direction then they have ignored that nudge again and again

WTF are you thinking!!!! just change that fucking part you idiot!! i have to keep this inside my head

The thing you aren’t getting is that you are a washing machine repairer. Most people are happy to change the pump and get it working when the alternative is a new washing machine.
Watchmakers have to be able to return a three hundred year old clock back to working order. There are no replacement parts. They have to be hand made.

i did it for a while – I’ve done all kinds of things

clocks , never touched

i took one apart when i was a kid and put it back together – didn’t fix it though!

you should look into 3d printing to make parts, you can make metal parts now

wookiemeister said:

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

all i know was that on this machine the pump was the number killer

by changing the pump you keep the thing alive longer

the only time i ever went back to something i suspect the brains of the thing had bene scrambled OR the customer was doing something to make us replace it with a new one fr free

Fisher and paykel pumps swap out easily but they aren’t an easy to throw away at $75 each.

they are designed to fail

So was the main drive shaft. But they didn’t replace it for free. I pulled it to bits and diagnosed the problem All the local man had to do was buy the parts and fit them to the drum I took in. The new shaft was a completely different design and the fault was removed in the new design but they still wanted me to pay for the shaft and bearings. They didn’t believe that I could put it back together. It is still running perfectly.

wookiemeister said:

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

true but in that case i couldn’t spend all day on it OR have to go back to it

i have to make sure its reliable

other people can be unlucky all day, i only have to be unlucky once for it to become a problem for me.

I’ve gone out with other people and given them a nudge in the right direction then they have ignored that nudge again and again

WTF are you thinking!!!! just change that fucking part you idiot!! i have to keep this inside my head

The thing you aren’t getting is that you are a washing machine repairer. Most people are happy to change the pump and get it working when the alternative is a new washing machine.
Watchmakers have to be able to return a three hundred year old clock back to working order. There are no replacement parts. They have to be hand made.

i did it for a while – I’ve done all kinds of things

clocks , never touched

i took one apart when i was a kid and put it back together – didn’t fix it though!

you should look into 3d printing to make parts, you can make metal parts now

I’ll be interested to see if it could print a mainspring.

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

roughbarked said:

Fisher and paykel pumps swap out easily but they aren’t an easy to throw away at $75 each.

they are designed to fail

So was the main drive shaft. But they didn’t replace it for free. I pulled it to bits and diagnosed the problem All the local man had to do was buy the parts and fit them to the drum I took in. The new shaft was a completely different design and the fault was removed in the new design but they still wanted me to pay for the shaft and bearings. They didn’t believe that I could put it back together. It is still running perfectly.

i only ever touched the drive shaft once, he didn’t have the right tool for doing it.

another policy i have is – don’t touch it unless you really have to or you start introducing problems that never existed

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

roughbarked said:

The thing you aren’t getting is that you are a washing machine repairer. Most people are happy to change the pump and get it working when the alternative is a new washing machine.
Watchmakers have to be able to return a three hundred year old clock back to working order. There are no replacement parts. They have to be hand made.

i did it for a while – I’ve done all kinds of things

clocks , never touched

i took one apart when i was a kid and put it back together – didn’t fix it though!

you should look into 3d printing to make parts, you can make metal parts now

I’ll be interested to see if it could print a mainspring.

now ? no

later? maybe

wookiemeister said:

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

they are designed to fail

So was the main drive shaft. But they didn’t replace it for free. I pulled it to bits and diagnosed the problem All the local man had to do was buy the parts and fit them to the drum I took in. The new shaft was a completely different design and the fault was removed in the new design but they still wanted me to pay for the shaft and bearings. They didn’t believe that I could put it back together. It is still running perfectly.

i only ever touched the drive shaft once, he didn’t have the right tool for doing it.

another policy i have is – don’t touch it unless you really have to or you start introducing problems that never existed

I didn’t have the right tool for replacing the shaft and bearings. I could have made the tool if the local Ficher and Paykel agent would supply me with the shaft and bearing. The local agent didn’t want me touching the machine at all and were reluctant to give me any advice at all.

someone made the ultimate gaff at work recently

they had the apprentice working on a major piece of equipment unsupervised (couldn’t see what he was doing)

he’s been hurried along taking nuts / bolts off connection and has dropped a bolt down into the guts of the equipment

they should have filled that hole with rags to stop that shit happening – that’s a basic mistake

wookiemeister said:

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

i did it for a while – I’ve done all kinds of things

clocks , never touched

i took one apart when i was a kid and put it back together – didn’t fix it though!

you should look into 3d printing to make parts, you can make metal parts now

I’ll be interested to see if it could print a mainspring.

now ? no

later? maybe

and how will the metal be tempered during printing?

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

roughbarked said:

So was the main drive shaft. But they didn’t replace it for free. I pulled it to bits and diagnosed the problem All the local man had to do was buy the parts and fit them to the drum I took in. The new shaft was a completely different design and the fault was removed in the new design but they still wanted me to pay for the shaft and bearings. They didn’t believe that I could put it back together. It is still running perfectly.

i only ever touched the drive shaft once, he didn’t have the right tool for doing it.

another policy i have is – don’t touch it unless you really have to or you start introducing problems that never existed

I didn’t have the right tool for replacing the shaft and bearings. I could have made the tool if the local Ficher and Paykel agent would supply me with the shaft and bearing. The local agent didn’t want me touching the machine at all and were reluctant to give me any advice at all.

they want to make money from you

if you were able to get the bearing off and put the new one on – all power to you

wookiemeister said:

someone made the ultimate gaff at work recently

they had the apprentice working on a major piece of equipment unsupervised (couldn’t see what he was doing)

he’s been hurried along taking nuts / bolts off connection and has dropped a bolt down into the guts of the equipment

they should have filled that hole with rags to stop that shit happening – that’s a basic mistake

oh yes

its still lost

and they can’t turn it on

clocks as we know them were the product of a competition to allow the navy know where it was on the high seas

wookiemeister said:

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

i only ever touched the drive shaft once, he didn’t have the right tool for doing it.

another policy i have is – don’t touch it unless you really have to or you start introducing problems that never existed

I didn’t have the right tool for replacing the shaft and bearings. I could have made the tool if the local Ficher and Paykel agent would supply me with the shaft and bearing. The local agent didn’t want me touching the machine at all and were reluctant to give me any advice at all.

they want to make money from you

if you were able to get the bearing off and put the new one on – all power to you

Yes, it was the bearing they wouldn’t sell me separately. I’d already removed the shaft. The bearing wouldn’t have been buggered if it hadn’t been a Fisher and Paykel problem. The shaft was buggered by the bearing. The new parts were redesigned. Both shaft and bearing.

wookiemeister said:

wookiemeister said:

someone made the ultimate gaff at work recently

they had the apprentice working on a major piece of equipment unsupervised (couldn’t see what he was doing)

he’s been hurried along taking nuts / bolts off connection and has dropped a bolt down into the guts of the equipment

they should have filled that hole with rags to stop that shit happening – that’s a basic mistake

oh yes

its still lost

and they can’t turn it on

Well they shouldn’t have tried to turn it on with bits floating around in it. It won’t last one minute if they do.

wookiemeister said:

clocks as we know them were the product of a competition to allow the navy know where it was on the high seas

Not exactly on the money by quite a long shot.

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

wookiemeister said:

someone made the ultimate gaff at work recently

they had the apprentice working on a major piece of equipment unsupervised (couldn’t see what he was doing)

he’s been hurried along taking nuts / bolts off connection and has dropped a bolt down into the guts of the equipment

they should have filled that hole with rags to stop that shit happening – that’s a basic mistake

oh yes

its still lost

and they can’t turn it on

Well they shouldn’t have tried to turn it on with bits floating around in it. It won’t last one minute if they do.

oh no

there was another problem , that’s why they were taking off nuts and bolts

they then introduced a totally new problem then

John Harrison (24 March 1693 – 24 March 1776) was a self-educated English carpenter and later a clockmaker. He invented the marine chronometer, a long-sought device in solving the problem of establishing the East-West position or longitude of a ship at sea, thus revolutionising and extending the possibility of safe long distance sea travel in the Age of Sail. The problem was considered so intractable that the British Parliament offered a prize of £20,000 (comparable to £2.66 million/$4.25 million US in modern currency) for the solution.

Harrison came 39th in the BBC’s 2002 public poll of the 100 Greatest Britons.

wookiemeister said:

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

oh yes

its still lost

and they can’t turn it on

Well they shouldn’t have tried to turn it on with bits floating around in it. It won’t last one minute if they do.

oh no

there was another problem , that’s why they were taking off nuts and bolts

they then introduced a totally new problem then

They, being those who hadn’t instructed the apprentice properly.

You do know that when they build these things, they don’t stuff rags in them.

wookiemeister said:

John Harrison (24 March 1693 – 24 March 1776) was a self-educated English carpenter and later a clockmaker. He invented the marine chronometer, a long-sought device in solving the problem of establishing the East-West position or longitude of a ship at sea, thus revolutionising and extending the possibility of safe long distance sea travel in the Age of Sail. The problem was considered so intractable that the British Parliament offered a prize of £20,000 (comparable to £2.66 million/$4.25 million US in modern currency) for the solution.

Harrison came 39th in the BBC’s 2002 public poll of the 100 Greatest Britons.

There’s still a lot more to that story than you have copied. Anyway it was Harrison’s chronometer that worked. But there was still a lot more to that part of the story too.
Though it all comes under the word, longitude.

wookiemeister said:

John Harrison (24 March 1693 – 24 March 1776) was a self-educated English carpenter and later a clockmaker. He invented the marine chronometer, a long-sought device in solving the problem of establishing the East-West position or longitude of a ship at sea, thus revolutionising and extending the possibility of safe long distance sea travel in the Age of Sail. The problem was considered so intractable that the British Parliament offered a prize of £20,000 (comparable to £2.66 million/$4.25 million US in modern currency) for the solution.

Harrison came 39th in the BBC’s 2002 public poll of the 100 Greatest Britons.

If I recall correctly, they refused to pay up the prize money.

Kingy said:

wookiemeister said:

John Harrison (24 March 1693 – 24 March 1776) was a self-educated English carpenter and later a clockmaker. He invented the marine chronometer, a long-sought device in solving the problem of establishing the East-West position or longitude of a ship at sea, thus revolutionising and extending the possibility of safe long distance sea travel in the Age of Sail. The problem was considered so intractable that the British Parliament offered a prize of £20,000 (comparable to £2.66 million/$4.25 million US in modern currency) for the solution.

Harrison came 39th in the BBC’s 2002 public poll of the 100 Greatest Britons.

If I recall correctly, they refused to pay up the prize money.

That’s part of the story.

Harrison was a carpenter. He decided to have a go at building a clock that didn’t suffer from the many problems that having a clock at sea presented. One way was to build them of wood. He became aware of the problems as he started working and is well known for his escapements.
You see one of the problems is that a ship rocks and rolls and a pendulum clock(which was what he started on) has to stay level.

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

roughbarked said:

Well they shouldn’t have tried to turn it on with bits floating around in it. It won’t last one minute if they do.

oh no

there was another problem , that’s why they were taking off nuts and bolts

they then introduced a totally new problem then

They, being those who hadn’t instructed the apprentice properly.

You do know that when they build these things, they don’t stuff rags in them.

ah ha!!

that’s right, i asked him why they didn’t stuff the hole with rags and he said that they didn’t think it necessary (he didn’t know either)

after telling him to do this , he has started using this method

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

John Harrison (24 March 1693 – 24 March 1776) was a self-educated English carpenter and later a clockmaker. He invented the marine chronometer, a long-sought device in solving the problem of establishing the East-West position or longitude of a ship at sea, thus revolutionising and extending the possibility of safe long distance sea travel in the Age of Sail. The problem was considered so intractable that the British Parliament offered a prize of £20,000 (comparable to £2.66 million/$4.25 million US in modern currency) for the solution.

Harrison came 39th in the BBC’s 2002 public poll of the 100 Greatest Britons.

There’s still a lot more to that story than you have copied. Anyway it was Harrison’s chronometer that worked. But there was still a lot more to that part of the story too.
Though it all comes under the word, longitude.

yes its a massive story but clocks as we know started having accuracy at that point

wookiemeister said:

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

John Harrison (24 March 1693 – 24 March 1776) was a self-educated English carpenter and later a clockmaker. He invented the marine chronometer, a long-sought device in solving the problem of establishing the East-West position or longitude of a ship at sea, thus revolutionising and extending the possibility of safe long distance sea travel in the Age of Sail. The problem was considered so intractable that the British Parliament offered a prize of £20,000 (comparable to £2.66 million/$4.25 million US in modern currency) for the solution.

Harrison came 39th in the BBC’s 2002 public poll of the 100 Greatest Britons.

There’s still a lot more to that story than you have copied. Anyway it was Harrison’s chronometer that worked. But there was still a lot more to that part of the story too.
Though it all comes under the word, longitude.

yes its a massive story but clocks as we know started having accuracy at that point

They started using the term chronometer applied to those that were accurate within certain parameters, yes.

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

roughbarked said:

There’s still a lot more to that story than you have copied. Anyway it was Harrison’s chronometer that worked. But there was still a lot more to that part of the story too.
Though it all comes under the word, longitude.

yes its a massive story but clocks as we know started having accuracy at that point

They started using the term chronometer applied to those that were accurate within certain parameters, yes.

in the case of what is now known as a marine chronometer. Jeremy Thacker tried and failed but also caused the problem that gave no money to Harrison.
(from wiki)The first true chronometer was the life work of one man, John Harrison, 31 years of persistent experimentation and testing that revolutionized naval (and later aerial) navigation and enabling the Age of Discovery and Colonialism to accelerate. (from wiki) Along the way he invented many aspects which are still used in mechanical watches and clocks today(though refined further for wristwatches).
Accuracy while portable and in variations of gravity were the main problems Harrison had after he’d resolved many other problems in clock manufacture. It was Christiaan Huygens who invented the chronometer that employed a balance wheel and a spiral spring for regulation, instead of a pendulum. He couldn’t get it to be accurate at sea.
Harrison then put his mind to making the oscillating balance and hairspring work accurately within the variable parameters that such a timepiece required. He actually made four clocks along the way. It was the fourth that included a bimetal balance. He also made caged roller bearings.

Some of Harrison’s early work can still be seen in action around the world.

The grasshopper escapement was invented by John Harrison who used it in his regulator clocks, and also in the first three of his marine timekeepers, H1 – H3. Determining longitudinal position was a major problem in marine navigation; Newton argued that astronomical positioning could be used, but an easier theoretical possibility was to use accurate knowledge of the time at a specific, base, location. The difference in time between local time, which was easy to measure, and the time at base gives the difference in longitude between the base and the ship, since 24 hours of time is equivalent to 360 degrees of longitude. A large prize was offered for a solution to the problem and Harrison devoted his life to devising and building highly accurate timekeepers. Precision and friction were the main problems. Two advantages of the grasshopper escapement are the repeatability of its operation and its freedom from the need for lubrication. The repeatability of its operation is inherent in its design. One pallet is released only by the engagement of the other; the impulse given to the pendulum is thus completely regular in its timing. The lubricants available to Harrison were poor, messy and short-lived. This meant that conventional clocks had to be stopped frequently for cleaning and oiling. Using his clean and absolutely stable grasshopper escapement Harrison began a series of long-term investigations into the performance of clocks, leading to his invention of the gridiron pendulum which nullified the effects of changing temperatures. The performance of his improved clocks in turn gave him an accurate, convenient standard against which to test his marine timekeepers.

The bimetal balance was about temperature.. which is what this thread started out about.

roughbarked said:

The bimetal balance was about temperature.. which is what this thread started out about.

(from wiki) The earliest surviving bimetallic strip was made by the eighteenth-century clockmaker John Harrison who is generally credited with its invention. He made it for his third marine chronometer (H3) of 1759 to compensate for temperature-induced changes in the balance spring. It should not be confused with his bimetallic mechanism for correcting for thermal expansion in the gridiron pendulum. His earliest examples had two individual metal strips joined by rivets but he also invented the later technique of directly fusing molten brass onto a steel substrate. A strip of this type was fitted to his last timekeeper, H5.

How’s it look using kelvin and metres

transition said:

How’s it look using kelvin and metres

The same as using celcius and metres.

>The same as using celcius and metres.

oh, well that’s not very interesting is it.

as you were.

Seeing as this seems to be a fairly wide ranging thread, with coincidences somehow involved.

How come the acceleration due to gravity is so close to 10 m/s^2?
How come air pressure at sea level is so close to 100 kPa?

Coincidence?

Surely not!

It helps aeroplanes get off the ground.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Seeing as this seems to be a fairly wide ranging thread, with coincidences somehow involved.

How come the acceleration due to gravity is so close to 10 m/s^2?
How come air pressure at sea level is so close to 100 kPa?

Coincidence?

Surely not!

I would have thought it a combination of factors such as Planck scale quanta and Pauli exclusion principal creating mandelbrot sets.