Sea ice decline and the greening of Arctic tundra

As sea ice extent declined over the past years, Arctic tundra has received an increased amount of summer warmth and has gotten greener. Arctic tundra (Figure 4) is a maritime biome, most of which can be found within 100 kilometers (62 miles) of seasonally ice-covered seas. This proximity to sea ice limits the tundra’s exposure to available warmth and vegetation growth. Over 30 years of remote sensing data show that the decline in sea ice extent corresponds to land surface warming (Figure 5, left panel) and increased vegetation cover (Figure 5, right panel, Maximum Normalized Difference Vegetation Index, or MaxNDVI). When sea ice extent is below average in coastal seas, land surfaces warm, and satellites see a stronger signal of vegetation.

However, the same data offer a few puzzles. While land surface warming and vegetation cover have steadily increased in the vicinity of Greenland over the last thirty years, warming and vegetation have actually decreased in some parts of Eurasia over the last decade.

—-more in link

The flowers are nice.

At the same time when all this greening is going on, the permafrost as it thaws releases vast amounts of co2 and methane that will increase the speed of global warming, resulting in an increase of these pleasant green lands of the Arctic tundra, but at the expense of the green lands in other parts of the world. Good swap?

The Clathrate gun is looking dangerous.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clathrate_gun_hypothesis

Kingy said:

The Clathrate gun is looking dangerous.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clathrate_gun_hypothesis

From which link:

Most deposits of methane clathrate are in sediments too deep to respond rapidly, and modelling by Archer (2007) suggests the methane forcing should remain a minor component of the overall greenhouse effect.

morrie said:

Kingy said:

The Clathrate gun is looking dangerous.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clathrate_gun_hypothesis

From which link:

Most deposits of methane clathrate are in sediments too deep to respond rapidly, and modelling by Archer (2007) suggests the methane forcing should remain a minor component of the overall greenhouse effect.

it’s reference to Arctic waters is less optimistic

Another kind of exception is in clathrates associated with the Arctic ocean, where clathrates can exist in shallower water stabilized by lower temperatures rather than higher pressures; these may potentially be marginally stable much closer to the surface of the sea-bed, stabilized by a frozen ‘lid’ of permafrost preventing methane escape

Is it a channel one cockup. Advertised F1 qualifying and I’m getting MotoGP?

jjjust moi said:

Is it a channel one cockup. Advertised F1 qualifying and I’m getting MotoGP?

Yeah, it’s a far cup. Got the same here.

that was probably supposed to go in chat …

party_pants said:

that was probably supposed to go in chat …

sssshhh. Archer is on.

party_pants said:

that was probably supposed to go in chat …

My bad.

morrie said:

Kingy said:

The Clathrate gun is looking dangerous.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clathrate_gun_hypothesis

From which link:

Most deposits of methane clathrate are in sediments too deep to respond rapidly, and modelling by Archer (2007) suggests the methane forcing should remain a minor component of the overall greenhouse effect.

I have read recently that some scientists have found a 1km2 area in the ocean north of Siberia that is bubbling methane.

PermeateFree said:

At the same time when all this greening is going on, the permafrost as it thaws releases vast amounts of co2 and methane that will increase the speed of global warming, resulting in an increase of these pleasant green lands of the Arctic tundra, but at the expense of the green lands in other parts of the world. Good swap?

Sure, why should the tropics and temperate zones hog all the green?

dv said:

PermeateFree said:

At the same time when all this greening is going on, the permafrost as it thaws releases vast amounts of co2 and methane that will increase the speed of global warming, resulting in an increase of these pleasant green lands of the Arctic tundra, but at the expense of the green lands in other parts of the world. Good swap?

Sure, why should the tropics and temperate zones hog all the green?

Possibly because we live there.

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

PermeateFree said:

At the same time when all this greening is going on, the permafrost as it thaws releases vast amounts of co2 and methane that will increase the speed of global warming, resulting in an increase of these pleasant green lands of the Arctic tundra, but at the expense of the green lands in other parts of the world. Good swap?

Sure, why should the tropics and temperate zones hog all the green?

Possibly because we live there.

Oh and it’s all about you isn’t it.

dv said:

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

Sure, why should the tropics and temperate zones hog all the green?

Possibly because we live there.

Oh and it’s all about you isn’t it.

Not just weird, but dumb too.

at the expense of the green lands in other parts of the world. Good swap?
————————————-

Yes, I agree.

As you have alluded to there…Yes we have more and richer land masses to the North.

Mr Ironic said:

at the expense of the green lands in other parts of the world. Good swap?
————————————-

Yes, I agree.

As you have alluded to there…Yes we have more and richer land masses to the North.

How do you reach that conclusion?

How do you reach that conclusion?
———————————————————

Well the greater land masses tend to be high in the North.

Russia then Canada being the largestests…ss.

Mr Ironic said:

How do you reach that conclusion?
———————————————————

Well the greater land masses tend to be high in the North.

Russia then Canada being the largestests…ss.

And?

but at the expense of the green lands in other parts of the world. Good swap?
—————————————————-

Well that was your question….

So Yes. It’s a good swap… from small arid land to cool wet and warming large pastures.

Hope that helps.

You might be interested in the following and advise how you are going to grow food there?

>>In physical geography, a tundra is a biome where the tree growth is hindered by low temperatures and short growing seasons. The term tundra comes through Russian тундра from the Kildin Sami word tūndâr “uplands”, “treeless mountain tract”. There are three types of tundra: arctic tundra, alpine tundra, and antarctic tundra. In a tundra, the vegetation is composed of dwarf shrubs, sedges and grasses, mosses, and lichens. Scattered trees grow in some tundras. The ecotone (or ecological boundary region) between the tundra and the forest is known as the tree line or timberline.<<

A severe threat to the tundras, specifically to the permafrost, is global warming. The melting of the permafrost in a given area on human time scales (decades or centuries) could radically change which species can survive there.

Another concern is that about one third of the world’s soil-bound carbon is in taiga and tundra areas. When the permafrost melts, it releases carbon in the form of carbon dioxide and methane, both of which are greenhouse gases. The effect has been observed in Alaska. In the 1970s the tundra was a carbon sink, but today, it is a carbon source. Methane is produced when vegetation decays in lakes and wetlands.

The amount of greenhouse gases which will be released under projected scenarios for global warming have not been reliably quantified by scientific studies, although a few studies were reported to be underway in 2011. It is uncertain whether the impact of increased greenhouse gases from this source will be minimal or massive.

In locations where dead vegetation and peat has accumulated there is a risk of wildfire such as the 1,039 square kilometres (401 sq mi) of tundra which burned in 2007 on the north slope of the Brooks Range in Alaska. Such events may both result from and contribute to global warming.<<

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tundra

Mr Ironic said:

but at the expense of the green lands in other parts of the world. Good swap?
—————————————————-

Well that was your question….

So Yes. It’s a good swap… from small arid land to cool wet and warming large pastures.

Hope that helps.

The swap is not between small arid land, but land where we grow our food, now subjected to climate extremes including drought.

You might be interested in the following and advise how you are going to grow food there?
————————————————-

Well besides the warning ‘Will Robinson”…

The same as everywhere else, is’ts called agriculture.

You know, we grow no tomatoes but potatoes are plentiful.

Now subjected to climate extremes including drought.
—————————————————————-

Well no need to worry then…

Russia and Canada don’t suffer from drought.

Considering that not much is being done by humans in response to global warming, then we must look at the benefits to farmers in areas where there is melt.

tauto said:

Considering that not much is being done by humans in response to global warming, then we must look at the benefits to farmers in areas where there is melt.

There is not much farming done on moors, it is generally very boggy ground with few micro-organisms necessary for growing most crops. You also have the short growing season, which means that it is out of the growing range of crops, but if you think there is a big market in yak butter and caribou steaks, you might have a point.

PermeateFree said:

tauto said:

Considering that not much is being done by humans in response to global warming, then we must look at the benefits to farmers in areas where there is melt.

There is not much farming done on moors, it is generally very boggy ground with few micro-organisms necessary for growing most crops. You also have the short growing season, which means that it is out of the growing range of crops, but if you think there is a big market in yak butter and caribou steaks, you might have a point.

—

Pfft, Greenland Farmers will have more ground open every year

tauto said:

PermeateFree said:

tauto said:

Considering that not much is being done by humans in response to global warming, then we must look at the benefits to farmers in areas where there is melt.

There is not much farming done on moors, it is generally very boggy ground with few micro-organisms necessary for growing most crops. You also have the short growing season, which means that it is out of the growing range of crops, but if you think there is a big market in yak butter and caribou steaks, you might have a point.

—

Pfft, Greenland Farmers will have more ground open every year

Meanwhile, good farming land in other areas are reducing production, possibly for years as more severe droughts take hold.

aren’t those types of land pretty acidic as well? dunno how those go for turning into farmland. or even if it is possible on that scale.

PermeateFree said:

tauto said:

PermeateFree said:

There is not much farming done on moors, it is generally very boggy ground with few micro-organisms necessary for growing most crops. You also have the short growing season, which means that it is out of the growing range of crops, but if you think there is a big market in yak butter and caribou steaks, you might have a point.

—

Pfft, Greenland Farmers will have more ground open every year

Meanwhile, good farming land in other areas are reducing production, possibly for years as more severe droughts take hold.

http://www.theland.com.au/news/agriculture/cropping/grains/bumper-wheat-crop-forecast/2672851.aspx

ChrispenEvan said:

aren’t those types of land pretty acidic as well? dunno how those go for turning into farmland. or even if it is possible on that scale.

They certainly are, just another problem trying to farm in tundra environments.

ChrispenEvan said:

aren’t those types of land pretty acidic as well? dunno how those go for turning into farmland. or even if it is possible on that scale.

—-

Always plenty of lime for acidic soils.

morrie said:

PermeateFree said:

tauto said:

—

Pfft, Greenland Farmers will have more ground open every year

Meanwhile, good farming land in other areas are reducing production, possibly for years as more severe droughts take hold.

http://www.theland.com.au/news/agriculture/cropping/grains/bumper-wheat-crop-forecast/2672851.aspx

That the best you can do morrie – confusing weather conditions with climate change? Thought you were more on top if it than that!

tauto said:

ChrispenEvan said:

aren’t those types of land pretty acidic as well? dunno how those go for turning into farmland. or even if it is possible on that scale.

—-

Always plenty of lime for acidic soils.

OMG! Wash your mouth out. That will produce carbon dioxide.

tauto said:

ChrispenEvan said:

aren’t those types of land pretty acidic as well? dunno how those go for turning into farmland. or even if it is possible on that scale.

—-

Always plenty of lime for acidic soils.

You are talking lands greater than Australia. Good luck with that, but you still forget the land will not be suitable for farming for hundreds if not thousands of years, plus you are still involved with sub- Arctic conditions.

PermeateFree said:

tauto said:

ChrispenEvan said:

aren’t those types of land pretty acidic as well? dunno how those go for turning into farmland. or even if it is possible on that scale.

—-

Always plenty of lime for acidic soils.

You are talking lands greater than Australia. Good luck with that, but you still forget the land will not be suitable for farming for hundreds if not thousands of years, plus you are still involved with sub- Arctic conditions.

Fortunately perhaps we will all be gone by then, and your most fervent dream, the extinction of humankind, may become a reality. We will never know.

PermeateFree said:

morrie said:

PermeateFree said:

Meanwhile, good farming land in other areas are reducing production, possibly for years as more severe droughts take hold.

http://www.theland.com.au/news/agriculture/cropping/grains/bumper-wheat-crop-forecast/2672851.aspx

That the best you can do morrie – confusing weather conditions with climate change? Thought you were more on top if it than that!

Oh, yes, the bushfires. I forgot about that.

but you still forget the land will not be suitable for farming for hundreds if not thousands of years
————————————————————

And the effects thereof… of of… change to the climate

Whats the point.

morrie said:

PermeateFree said:

tauto said:

—-

Always plenty of lime for acidic soils.

You are talking lands greater than Australia. Good luck with that, but you still forget the land will not be suitable for farming for hundreds if not thousands of years, plus you are still involved with sub- Arctic conditions.

Fortunately perhaps we will all be gone by then, and your most fervent dream, the extinction of humankind, may become a reality. We will never know.

Good to see you are being realistic at last morrie. Not a dream, just the situation that many pretend does not exist and will not affect them.

morrie said:

PermeateFree said:

morrie said:

http://www.theland.com.au/news/agriculture/cropping/grains/bumper-wheat-crop-forecast/2672851.aspx

That the best you can do morrie – confusing weather conditions with climate change? Thought you were more on top if it than that!

Oh, yes, the bushfires. I forgot about that.

Think you did.

Anyway dinner time, later maybe.

Mr Ironic said:

but you still forget the land will not be suitable for farming for hundreds if not thousands of years
————————————————————

And the effects thereof… of of… change to the climate

Whats the point.

A very strange response.