Just after some advice regarding a Health Care Practitioner that I’ve been having some trouble with. Sorry it is so long, but this has been ongoing for some time. Here is the order of events:

2012 – Son’s behaviour at school is poor and the school advises that suspension is a real possibility in the future if it continues. They say they need some practical advice for dealing with him at school.

Jan 2013 – We visit a Paediatrician and get a referral for a Child Psychologist

Feb/March – We visit the Child Psychologist 3 times and are told that he will provide a “framework” for us and for the school to begin working with, that he will contact the school and will provide invoices for the visits to date. These invoices would enable us to make partial Medicare claims for the visits. Once this was all done, we would organise another session with him and continue with the therapy.

April – I email the Psych advising that son is suspended from school, along with behavioral updates since our last visit. I remind the Psych that we are still all awaiting his urgent response. After receiving no response I send another email asking whether he is still receiving my messages at all. Psych. replies that he has had some urgent issues to attend to and that as a gesture of goodwill, he is willing to bulk-bill any future consultations.

May – I respond that we appreciate this offer and that we continue to await the promised feedback so that we can start to move forward

June – I email that his issues must be ongoing as still no response from him. I suggest that we find another professional and that, since no professional advice had yet been given, it would be fair to refund the fees to date so that we could put them towards the replacement Phych. He responds that his wife had died suddenly and that he is very sorry. He says he understands that we may want to go elsewhere, but promises that things are back on track and that he is willing to resume his work. I respond that, since it is so soon after his wife had died (I think it was about a week afterwards), I will contact him in a few more weeks.

July – After 6 weeks I email again and am told to make another appt, which we attended in August. Most of this time was spent going through the list of what he was supposed to provide to us previously. We were promised the same stuff as previously, except with the added assurance that it would be done this time. This visit was bulk-billed.

August – More emails and phone messages and reminders with no response.

October – We returned to the Paed. and had a referral made out to another Psych. (and all going well with this new one). By now though, son has been suspended from school 3 times :(

November – message to the Psych. explaining the situation and requesting the refund again (for the first 3 visits only where an invoice had not been issued). I also stated that unless I received a response within the next few days, I would be making a complaint with the HCCC. Phych replied today (in writing by post) that appointments are “fee for service”, where payments correspond to time spent and not on treatment outcome (mind you, we had not yet got to treatment stage). He says “My understanding is that you were satisfied with my work during appointments…” and that he understands our frustration etc. and states again that his wife had died. He also outlines that he offered to bulk-bill further treatment and that we were happy with that and concludes that he does not think it appropriate to offer a refund. He again apologises but states that he is glad that we have found another professional.

Now this is the bit which gets me …

He attaches some “previous” correspondence from himself dated 12th August 2013 stating that he “contacted the school by phone. Despite leaving messages on two occassions for a return call I have not yet heard back from them. Also, I have attached the invoices as requested. He adds in this letter, that due to the death of his wife he is reducing his workload and that it would be in my son’s best interest if he sought the services of another professional and that he is happy to make recommendations. In this letter, he again apologises but thinks “it best to advise you as soon as possible so we can make alternate and stable arrangements”.

This letter has obviously been backdated. It was never received by me. I don’t understand what he was going to tell the school during his telephone calls. He had only been given email address contacts for all relevant staff there. This letter has obviously been fabricated to support his current stance.

Where does this leave me? I know I can just go to Medicare and claim now BUT this guy still has roughly $800 (of my and taxpayers’ money too) for providing no service at all. These funds are very limited and should be reallocated to the new Psych. Where do I stand here and what would be the outcome if I still pursued making a complaint against him to the HCCC?

Sorry for the long post, but the brazen-ness of this guy has really shocked me. .

if I were you I’d dispense with the psychologists and get a lawyer – you can get away with more or less anything if you have the right representation.

wookiemeister said:

if I were you I’d dispense with the psychologists and get a lawyer – you can get away with more or less anything if you have the right representation.

A lawyer would, I suggest, cost you $800 before you could blink.

Send a complaint to AHPRA.

http://www.ahpra.gov.au/Notifications/What-is-a-notification.aspx

Make an appointment to see your local member, state or federal depending under which jurisdiction the shrink is working, and take a print out of the op with you.
This is right up their alley.

myself and peak warming man could go and knock on his door one night for 800 bucks if you wanted

call consumers affairs he’s a shyster, if you’ve been had by this fellah get them to give you your money back

poikilotherm said:

Send a complaint to AHPRA.

http://www.ahpra.gov.au/Notifications/What-is-a-notification.aspx

Yes, I contacted them for advice before sending my last email to the Psych. They told me that complaints are forwarded to the HCCC. I can see from the link that this is only for NSW complaints.

Peak Warming Man said:

Make an appointment to see your local member, state or federal depending under which jurisdiction the shrink is working, and take a print out of the op with you.
This is right up their alley.

Okay thanks PWM. This is something I would never have considered. I will look into it.

wookiemeister said:

call consumers affairs he’s a shyster, if you’ve been had by this fellah get them to give you your money back

Indeed wookie. HCCC suggested this to me too. They said that the biggest issue for me was that a health care practitioner can choose to cease providing services to a patient. With this situation, I don’t think that it was his choice (I know that his wife DID die), but his backdated letter suggests that he did choose it in some way. His backdated “I would be happy to suggest the names of several Clinical Psychologists…” after he already knew we had already seen his replacement is particularly frustrating.

I guess my greatest concern is that a simple complaint could escalate into something that I would regret being involved with. He may have covered his back with the back-dated letter. I cannot prove that I didn’t receive it nor can the school prove that the verbal messages were not received.

Fair go mate, if he lost his wife.

Speedy said:

wookiemeister said:

call consumers affairs he’s a shyster, if you’ve been had by this fellah get them to give you your money back

Indeed wookie. HCCC suggested this to me too. They said that the biggest issue for me was that a health care practitioner can choose to cease providing services to a patient. With this situation, I don’t think that it was his choice (I know that his wife DID die), but his backdated letter suggests that he did choose it in some way. His backdated “I would be happy to suggest the names of several Clinical Psychologists…” after he already knew we had already seen his replacement is particularly frustrating.

I guess my greatest concern is that a simple complaint could escalate into something that I would regret being involved with. He may have covered his back with the back-dated letter. I cannot prove that I didn’t receive it nor can the school prove that the verbal messages were not received.

an official complaint to the dept of fair trading will create some history to this person. if someone else calls about him the history will start mounting.

transition said:

Fair go mate, if he lost his wife.

Yes, and that</I> is another issue. I know they were very close and that this is a real personal tragedy for him. There will be no winner here, but you may appreciate that emails were ongoing and contained statements from me like:

If you still believe that you can help us, please contact me so that we can arrange another consultation. If you are unable to help us due to time constraints or for other reasons, we would appreciate your honesty. Either way, we need to move on this quickly.

This particular one was dated 20th August. His backdated letter was dated 12th August. Surely, he could have simply replied stating what he now claims was his response. It took the recent threat of a complaint to HCCC to receive any response at all.

Try again

Yes, and that is another issue. I know they were very close and that this is a real personal tragedy for him. There will be no winner here, but you may appreciate that emails were ongoing and contained statements from me like:

If you still believe that you can help us, please contact me so that we can arrange another consultation. If you are unable to help us due to time constraints or for other reasons, we would appreciate your honesty. Either way, we need to move on this quickly.

This particular one was dated 20th August. His backdated letter was dated 12th August. Surely, he could have simply replied stating what he now claims was his response. It took the recent threat of a complaint to HCCC to receive any response at all.

How much personally are you out of pocket, or is it more you haven’t a result via him?

Speedy said:

poikilotherm said:

Send a complaint to AHPRA.

http://www.ahpra.gov.au/Notifications/What-is-a-notification.aspx

Yes, I contacted them for advice before sending my last email to the Psych. They told me that complaints are forwarded to the HCCC. I can see from the link that this is only for NSW complaints.

No, APHRA is national; NSW is the only one with a different scheme.

What can notifications be about?
Common types of notification

About notifications
Who can make a notification?
The notifications process
Make a notification
Notification outcomes and hearing decisions
Notification publications and FAQ

Do you have a complaint or a concern?

If your complaint is about a registered health practitioner, AHPRA and the National Boards may be able to do something to keep the public safe.

In the National Scheme, we call a complaint about a registered health practitioner a ‘notification’. They are called notifications in the law because we are ‘notified’ about concerns or complaints, which AHPRA and the National Boards then manage.
•Anyone can make a complaint about a registered health
practitioner’s health, performance or conduct
•AHPRA receives complaints on behalf of the National Boards and manages the notifications process, and
•You can raise a concern about a registered health practitioner – by calling 1300 419 495
- by filling in the notifications form and submitting it by post; or
- in person at an AHPRA office.

The National Boards and AHPRA take every notification they receive seriously, as they are responsible for making sure that only practitioners who have the skills and qualifications to provide safe care are registered to practise.

transition said:

How much personally are you out of pocket, or is it more you haven’t a result via him?

Hi transition. At the moment I am out of pocket $600. Out of this I can claim some rebates from Medicare, which will leave me out of pocket by about $250.

The problem I have though is that the replacement Psych. charges even more and that there is a limit (number of psych. visits) that can be claimed. Once this limit is reached, I will be out of pocket for 100% of the cost. Why should I claim for these old consultations if no service was provided?

>Why should I claim for these old consultations if no service was provided?

Cut your losses mate, I wouldn’t trouble over it too much. Bit unfortunate, but life’s like that.

A few months into a close ones death is no time at all for some, the guy could be incapable of dealing with other peoples’ troubles, or people at all.

Spin it around, imagine you’re going to see the shrink because your kid has gone, suddenly, and you’ve forgotten to fill out some paperwork, get back to someone, don’t know what day it is half the time.

Nightio.

This man has no principles, Speedy, dead wife or no dead wife. He wasted your time and charged you a lot of money for it. Contact your local MP.

transition said:

>Why should I claim for these old consultations if no service was provided?

Cut your losses mate, I wouldn’t trouble over it too much. Bit unfortunate, but life’s like that.

A few months into a close ones death is no time at all for some, the guy could be incapable of dealing with other peoples’ troubles, or people at all.

Spin it around, imagine you’re going to see the shrink because your kid has gone, suddenly, and you’ve forgotten to fill out some paperwork, get back to someone, don’t know what day it is half the time.

Nightio.

Yes, I get what you’re saying. I really do. I just don’t get how this guy continues to book himself out for 3 individual private consultations 3 nights per week (this is in addition to his psych work elsewhere ). He has an on-line booking system so I can easily check his schedule. Surely, if you are not providing a service to those who are truly desperate for your professional advice, why take new appointments? This guy could have easily scratched one of those $200 time-slots just to keep us happy.

Bubblecar said:

This man has no principles, Speedy, dead wife or no dead wife. He wasted your time and charged you a lot of money for it. Contact your local MP.

Yes Bubblecar. As PWM suggested too, I will do this. How do I find out whether it’s State or Federal?

Speedy said:

Bubblecar said:

This man has no principles, Speedy, dead wife or no dead wife. He wasted your time and charged you a lot of money for it. Contact your local MP.

Yes Bubblecar. As PWM suggested too, I will do this. How do I find out whether it’s State or Federal?

OCDC should know.

How do I find out whether it’s State or Federal?
———————————————————————

Contact your local MP…

Speedy said:

Bubblecar said:

This man has no principles, Speedy, dead wife or no dead wife. He wasted your time and charged you a lot of money for it. Contact your local MP.

Yes Bubblecar. As PWM suggested too, I will do this. How do I find out whether it’s State or Federal?

Google is your friend.

Bubblecar said:

Speedy said:

Bubblecar said:

This man has no principles, Speedy, dead wife or no dead wife. He wasted your time and charged you a lot of money for it. Contact your local MP.

Yes Bubblecar. As PWM suggested too, I will do this. How do I find out whether it’s State or Federal?

OCDC should know.

Just go to both…

OCDC said:

Bubblecar said:

Speedy said:

Yes Bubblecar. As PWM suggested too, I will do this. How do I find out whether it’s State or Federal?

OCDC should know.

Just go to both…

Okay will do.

Thanks for all your replies so far.

I might add that “wookiecare – because we care” is available here on this forum as part of the wookimeister lite package

For what it’s worth, my advice is to claim what you can from Medicare and walk away. Put your efforts into supporting your son.

Rule 303 said:

For what it’s worth, my advice is to claim what you can from Medicare and walk away. Put your efforts into supporting your son.

Thanks Rule. This seems a very good choice and it is still likely that I will go this way. After wasting most of this year getting nowhere, I don’t want to waste any more time on it. This thread was posted to try to get some advice on possible next steps and, seeing I am once again awake at this time of night thinking about our predicament, letting go of this is probably the best choice for now.

This is not just about the money. It would be wrong to allow him to get away with this type of dishonesty. How many other children are now suffering due to his lack of communication? How many other families has he put on the back foot recently by pulling out the dead wife card? The backdated letter should have been a form letter sent out to any affected clients so that they can continue with their lives.

I will take this up again but not now. Thanks again.

2 can play @ that game;

Yes, the poor poor doctor has a dead wife..
..on the other hand..
you have a son that has gone without the required treatment
…FOR NEARLY A YEAR!

Aside from the money already taken under false pretenses
..how much in lost time from school and other hardships
including potentially long-term psychological damage
by being stigmatized in the educational system etc.

While I feel for the doctor’s bereavement..
..Exactly WHY Should Your SON
Be MADE TO SUFFER?

Short Answer:

Had he been an Honest Broker,
he’d have passed you onto another doctor
straight away as soon as he knew he could be too involved
in his own personal family affairs to properly handle patients in his care.

Ogmog said:

2 can play @ that game;

Yes, the poor poor doctor has a dead wife..
..on the other hand..
you have a son that has gone without the required treatment
…FOR NEARLY A YEAR!

Aside from the money already taken under false pretenses
..how much in lost time from school and other hardships
including potentially long-term psychological damage
by being stigmatized in the educational system etc.

While I feel for the doctor’s bereavement..
..Exactly WHY Should Your SON
Be MADE TO SUFFER?

Easy, if you weren’t getting anywhere, why did you wait a year to get another referral? …

poikilotherm said:

Ogmog said:

2 can play @ that game;

Yes, the poor poor doctor has a dead wife..
..on the other hand..
you have a son that has gone without the required treatment
…FOR NEARLY A YEAR!

Aside from the money already taken under false pretenses
..how much in lost time from school and other hardships
including potentially long-term psychological damage
by being stigmatized in the educational system etc.

While I feel for the doctor’s bereavement..
..Exactly WHY Should Your SON
Be MADE TO SUFFER?

Easy, if you weren’t getting anywhere, why did you wait a year to get another referral? …

That is a good question. In hindsight it is easy to see that this process took a year. When, however, you are losing a few weeks at a time with the added reassurances from the psych. that all will be back on track soon, it is easy for a year to pass. Added to that the already established rapport between him and my son, the “interview” progress already made and the additional expense of getting to the same stage with another professional, you may understand how this happens. A child visiting a psych. is not the same as me visiting a foot specialist with an x-ray in an envelope.

Speedy said:

poikilotherm said:

Easy, if you weren’t getting anywhere, why did you wait a year to get another referral? …

That is a good question. In hindsight it is easy to see that this process took a year. When, however, you are losing a few weeks at a time with the added reassurances from the psych. that all will be back on track soon, it is easy for a year to pass. Added to that the already established rapport between him and my son, the “interview” progress already made and the additional expense of getting to the same stage with another professional, you may understand how this happens. A child visiting a psych. is not the same as me visiting a foot specialist with an x-ray in an envelope.

I totally understand this, not that I experienced the delays etc, just the whole process to get your child help, the tentative bond they form with the healthcare professional….the day-to-day life and associated stuff also gets in the way of the process.

All fair points.

I do find it odd that you also chose to communicate via email. Yea, in this day and age it should be ok but, phone calls may have got you noticed sooner…it’s easy to ignore an email, much harder to deal with an angry patient on the phone.

I was curious about the email thing too. OK, I don’t run a practice with email contact. So all patient contacts are by phone. And with a person, not an answering machine. If we are not here, the answering machine does not take messages. I would rather people waited and spoke to a person than leave a message. I know it’s old fashioned….but I am the practice in town that is booked out 3 months ahead and the all bells and whistles one down the road has to have Catching Customers Extravaganzas. So I can’t be doing too much wrong. It’s a personal service. I think psychology is a personal service too. It’s not like selling widgets.

But if there was no response to email, why not phone?

poikilotherm said:

All fair points.

I do find it odd that you also chose to communicate via email. Yea, in this day and age it should be ok but, phone calls may have got you noticed sooner…it’s easy to ignore an email, much harder to deal with an angry patient on the phone.

Yes. He had initially told me that email was his preferred mode of communication. After a while I did also call his mobile (which I assume is his “work” mobile (always diverted to voicemail)) and leave messages requesting a return call or urgent response to email just sent. The only prompt responses received were a) when he finally had the opportunity to put me on the back foot by stating that his wife had died and b) the one in response to the possibility of complaint to HCCC. This last message about the HCCC I sent via SMS to his mobile.

Did the psychologist have an office?

poikilotherm said:

Did the psychologist have an office?

Yes and no. He apparently also does the lecturing circuit and works in a hospital. I once phoned this hospital to check whether he was away and the staff told me that he had been working there. This contradicted one of his later claims that he had been overseas at the time.

He does 3 private consultations 3 nights per week starting at 5:30pm in rooms where other psychs also work. There is no receptionist and he has no secretary, hence the on-line booking system which, as I stated earlier, I was also able to check. It is an enormous workload but I must admit, he was very good with my son when he gave us the time, even during the consultation after his wife’s death. He stated in his backdated letter that he now only does 2 nights per week and on checking this just now, it is true.

My diagnoses, of the shrink, is that he’s busy + bereavement :)
Is that where we’re at, diagnosing the shrink?

I blame christmas.

Just got an email from the psych now. It states:

I had another thought about what else I could do and wondered if I could pass on my notes and draft treatment plan to the new therapist

I guess that besides the refund which he refuses to provide, the only thing he can offer is this. I don’t see much point at this stage, and with me being cynical now, perhaps he is simply curious to know who we are now seeing.

Speedy said:

Just got an email from the psych now. It states:

I had another thought about what else I could do and wondered if I could pass on my notes and draft treatment plan to the new therapist

I guess that besides the refund which he refuses to provide, the only thing he can offer is this. I don’t see much point at this stage, and with me being cynical now, perhaps he is simply curious to know who we are now seeing.

I am wondering why you haven’t referred all this on to the relevant regulating authority.

roughbarked said:

I am wondering why you haven’t referred all this on to the relevant regulating authority.

One of the first things I did was contact the HCCC for advice. It was my intention at that stage to make a complaint if we were unable to resolve the matter quickly. After receiving the letter yesterday, I can see that this psych is already attempting to cover his tracks as best as possible by fabricating a backdated letter. Can you see that this complicates things a little? He is a man of good standing in the community who has a perfect record with HCCC now and his wife has just died. He’s almost won already. Although I think it the right thing to do, I really don’t need to be dragged through the wringer if things turn nasty. Based on his brazen approach already, I can’t do it right now.

Just contacted Phillip Ruddock’s office. After lengthy discussion with them, it was explained to me that I have no grounds on which to claim a refund. I could, however, place a complaint for malpractice with the HCCC, but this would likely result in a situation even “stickier” than the one I am already in and would only lead to even more waste of my time and further infuriation.

On a brighter note, after explaining that my son was very technically minded, and that his 3 suspensions would likely result in his choice of high school being limited, I was told to stay in touch with their office. They have strong ties with the local schools and could help us on this matter in the future, provided that his therapy is successful in treating his behavioural issues beforehand :)

Well that’s something at least.

Divine Angel said:

Well that’s something at least.

can never ask for better.. in reality.

Speedy said:

Just contacted Phillip Ruddock’s office. After lengthy discussion with them, it was explained to me that I have no grounds on which to claim a refund. I could, however, place a complaint for malpractice with the HCCC, but this would likely result in a situation even “stickier” than the one I am already in and would only lead to even more waste of my time and further infuriation.

On a brighter note, after explaining that my son was very technically minded, and that his 3 suspensions would likely result in his choice of high school being limited, I was told to stay in touch with their office. They have strong ties with the local schools and could help us on this matter in the future, provided that his therapy is successful in treating his behavioural issues beforehand :)

Oh, that’s good.

> A lawyer would, I suggest, cost you $800 before you could blink.

I agree. My last lawyer cost nearly $2,000 and all I got out of it was that he posted one letter, and got no useful reply.

mollwollfumble said:

> A lawyer would, I suggest, cost you $800 before you could blink.

I agree. My last lawyer cost nearly $2,000 and all I got out of it was that he posted one letter, and got no useful reply.

Bloody rip-off merchants they are.

I’d be happy to provide that service for $1,000.