I am offended by car road wheels that have 5 spokes and 6 wheel nuts, or any other combination of spokes and wheel nuts where there is an odd number of one and an even number of the other, I maybe nuts, but to me this just doesn’t look right. Do other Forum members have similar quirks with other examples of product design?

(I hope there are no “trickcyclists” logged on)

Pythagoras would probably be annoyed

It must be just you cause I’ve never actually noticed that.

My mags have five spokes and five nuts.

Skeptic Pete said:

It must be just you cause I’ve never actually noticed that.

My mags have five spokes and five nuts.

Pete most have consistant nuts to spokes numbers, but not all.

The best wheels only have one nut.

Spiny Norman said:

The best wheels only have one nut.

Agreed, but there are other examples where that nut is also holding the steering wheel.

I am still pissed off that when they introduced push button door windows in cars that there is no manual override for when they fail. If you can’t get to a repairer for a few days then you almost can’t drive if the window is stuck down. (rain, theft)

tauto said:

I am still pissed off that when they introduced push button door windows in cars that there is no manual override for when they fail. If you can’t get to a repairer for a few days then you almost can’t drive if the window is stuck down. (rain, theft)

In a car review of a convertible Ferrari it was discovered that if the folding roof mechanism was interrupted on its way down it just stuck there, no provision to engage it to go back up again. The only way to get it down and fix whatever had jammed the mechanism without a software fix was to drain the hydraulics.

tauto said:

I am still pissed off that when they introduced push button door windows in cars that there is no manual override for when they fail. If you can’t get to a repairer for a few days then you almost can’t drive if the window is stuck down. (rain, theft)

then they wouldn’t be able to make money from you

ford and holden bankrupted themselves by making these kinds of vehicles

my old getz had its indicator light problem revisit the other day – I’m almost certain it was downloaded onto to it or has some built in glitch

a year or so ago my left or right indicators wouldn’t work from the control column, I checked the fuses, did a little research on the problem and came up with a fat zero in trouble shooting

putting my alternative thinking hat on I wondered if this was programming. if it was a relay that was stuck would both really be stuck at the same time?

I decided to make the indicators work another way if the control column input was being refused

I pressed the emergency flashers and the indicators came on, then the control column suddenly worked, it did it again last week whilst I was driving , I quickly stopped, pressed the emergency flashers and then all was good

they are trying to make money from you by programming faults into the car that have no known cause, holden is well known for this. I used to drive a rodeo and the workshop told me that no one knew why the car wouldn’t start sometimes. we let the car sit for a while and then the car jumped back into life. it was a company car, not mine.

wookiemeister said:

tauto said:

I am still pissed off that when they introduced push button door windows in cars that there is no manual override for when they fail. If you can’t get to a repairer for a few days then you almost can’t drive if the window is stuck down. (rain, theft)

then they wouldn’t be able to make money from you

ford and holden bankrupted themselves by making these kinds of vehicles

my old getz had its indicator light problem revisit the other day – I’m almost certain it was downloaded onto to it or has some built in glitch

a year or so ago my left or right indicators wouldn’t work from the control column, I checked the fuses, did a little research on the problem and came up with a fat zero in trouble shooting

putting my alternative thinking hat on I wondered if this was programming. if it was a relay that was stuck would both really be stuck at the same time?

I decided to make the indicators work another way if the control column input was being refused

I pressed the emergency flashers and the indicators came on, then the control column suddenly worked, it did it again last week whilst I was driving , I quickly stopped, pressed the emergency flashers and then all was good

they are trying to make money from you by programming faults into the car that have no known cause, holden is well known for this. I used to drive a rodeo and the workshop told me that no one knew why the car wouldn’t start sometimes. we let the car sit for a while and then the car jumped back into life. it was a company car, not mine.

Put a new flasher can in it.

Another car thing is keyless entry and starting. In some cars it is possible to get in and drive off with your car if the keys are close enough, like in the hall table, but when you get to your destination, you cannot lock your car or start it after it has stopped.

wookiemeister said:

Pythagoras would probably be annoyed

Why?

He was rather fond of three sided shapes (odd number of sides)

Skunkworks said:

tauto said:

I am still pissed off that when they introduced push button door windows in cars that there is no manual override for when they fail. If you can’t get to a repairer for a few days then you almost can’t drive if the window is stuck down. (rain, theft)

In a car review of a convertible Ferrari it was discovered that if the folding roof mechanism was interrupted on its way down it just stuck there, no provision to engage it to go back up again. The only way to get it down and fix whatever had jammed the mechanism without a software fix was to drain the hydraulics.

I believe there was one model of Buggatti, that if an engine valve grind was required, the mechanic had to start at the back axle, remove this, work forward to the gear box remove this, then the flywheel, drop the crankshaft, remove the pistons and conrods and access the valves from inside the cylinder bores as the engine had an integral head with the block.

Michael V said:

wookiemeister said:

tauto said:

I am still pissed off that when they introduced push button door windows in cars that there is no manual override for when they fail. If you can’t get to a repairer for a few days then you almost can’t drive if the window is stuck down. (rain, theft)

then they wouldn’t be able to make money from you

ford and holden bankrupted themselves by making these kinds of vehicles

my old getz had its indicator light problem revisit the other day – I’m almost certain it was downloaded onto to it or has some built in glitch

a year or so ago my left or right indicators wouldn’t work from the control column, I checked the fuses, did a little research on the problem and came up with a fat zero in trouble shooting

putting my alternative thinking hat on I wondered if this was programming. if it was a relay that was stuck would both really be stuck at the same time?

I decided to make the indicators work another way if the control column input was being refused

I pressed the emergency flashers and the indicators came on, then the control column suddenly worked, it did it again last week whilst I was driving , I quickly stopped, pressed the emergency flashers and then all was good

they are trying to make money from you by programming faults into the car that have no known cause, holden is well known for this. I used to drive a rodeo and the workshop told me that no one knew why the car wouldn’t start sometimes. we let the car sit for a while and then the car jumped back into life. it was a company car, not mine.

Put a new flasher can in it.

it wouldn’t explain why its a year between incidents

electromechanical stuff wouldn’t suddenly come good after being made to work. if it was a “flasher can (I’m assuming a bi metallic strip in a can) maybe the higher current draw could make it work but it would flash faster as the strip got hotter faster – it doesn’t do that with all four flashers on.

Bunnings sell wing nuts in packets of 3. I had a little job for which I needed 4.

Bastards.

On my old ride on mower the drain plug was at the base of the engine but above the tread plate, so you spilled oil everywhere when draining it.

Skunkworks said:

On my old ride on mower the drain plug was at the base of the engine but above the tread plate, so you spilled oil everywhere when draining it.

—-

Yes, mechanics must often shake their heads at designs of engineers.

>On my old ride on mower the drain plug was at the base of the engine but above the tread plate, so you spilled oil everywhere when draining it”

Oh jeeez mate I love that, these days I don’t even wash it off and let the dirt stick to it, looks real industrial :). Don’t want a panzy mower.

Offensive design examples
————————————————-
Walls.

Outside to inside, paint attached to wood attached to wood attached to glue attached to plaster board attached to paint.

And the whole sorry un-insulated mess ‘tided up’ with some crap cornice that also requires painting, apparently in a different colour… because it’s special, unique, a feature… not a lame excuse for doing a crap joining job.

tauto said:

Skunkworks said:

On my old ride on mower the drain plug was at the base of the engine but above the tread plate, so you spilled oil everywhere when draining it.

—-

Yes, mechanics must often shake their heads at designs of engineers.

It’s the thing that annoys me most about cars, and put me off being a mechanic.

Due to the way they are made, some American trucks need to have the body removed from the chassis to do any work. A reversal of building it. Not a big deal in America where they are equipped and have know how, it is just undoing some bolts and disconnecting lines and wires but a big deal in Australia if it is a non specialist garage.

But then again when separated very easy to work on, so not sure if it is a plus or a minus.

Oh, and the fuel cap on K7 Hondas which dumped water into the tank if you undid it after rain or washing the bike.

Skunkworks said:

Due to the way they are made, some American trucks need to have the body removed from the chassis to do any work. A reversal of building it. Not a big deal in America where they are equipped and have know how, it is just undoing some bolts and disconnecting lines and wires but a big deal in Australia if it is a non specialist garage.

But then again when separated very easy to work on, so not sure if it is a plus or a minus.

I understand the old Ford Taurus models were like this too. The gearbox couldn’t be removed from below or something, any major job on the gearbox required it and engine be pulled out from above. 19 hour book time on certain jobs where normal cars were only a few hours. Or so said my ex-housemate who was a Ford mechanic.

Free market economics when oligopolies replace competition…

tauto said:

Free market economics when oligopolies replace competition…

Botched privatisation.

Politicians who use the word literally when they mean metaphorically.

party_pants said:

19 hour book time on certain jobs where normal cars were only a few hours. Or so said my ex-housemate who was a Ford mechanic.

I recall the Suzuki Katanas racing in the six hour. To change the rear tyre by the book time was a couple of hours and meant the mufflers had to be removed. In the race mechanics took out the two top shock bolts and dropped the wheel, tyre could be changed in minutes.

http://www.news.com.au/technology/design/qatar-accidentally-builds-vagina-stadium-for-world-cup/story-fnjwucti-1226763150869

Stealth said:

http://www.news.com.au/technology/design/qatar-accidentally-builds-vagina-stadium-for-world-cup/story-fnjwucti-1226763150869

Lol.

What a joke awarding the World Cup to Qatar in the first place. It’s far to hot and sweaty for playing soccer, and the place is full of sand. I hope they don’t get any sand in their stadium.

party_pants said:

I hope they don’t get any sand in their stadium.

ha.

I guess they could make it more offensive by redesigning it to be ‘female circumcised”

I wonder what the new WA stadium will look like – Colin’s arse?

party_pants said:

I wonder what the new WA stadium will look like – Colin’s arse?

They are building it on a rubbish dump, so it is sure to emit methane.

Skeptic Pete said:

It must be just you cause I’ve never actually noticed that.

My mags have five spokes and five nuts.

Lots of smaller cars have four nuts, but five or six spokes.

Benz with lots of spokes

bugatti veyron

eight spokes on the veyron?

aesthetic choices are irrelevant on anything other than a Bugatti. Technically, if it has more than one wheel nut it is sub-standard anyway.

aesthetic choices are irrelevant on anything other than a Bugatti. Technically, if it has more than one wheel nut it is sub-standard anyway.

maybe in the future car tyres will be heat shrunk onto the wheel

the old tyre might just be cut off

wookiemeister said:

maybe in the future car tyres will be heat shrunk onto the wheel

the old tyre might just be cut off

isn’t that essentially vulcanisation?

Riff-in-Thyme said:

wookiemeister said:

maybe in the future car tyres will be heat shrunk onto the wheel

the old tyre might just be cut off

isn’t that essentially vulcanisation?

I’m thinking that the tyres won’t need some fancy gear to attach them to the steel

I’m thinking that if most roads were of some superior finish the tyres themselves might have a flatter cross section

there are tyres around for the military that don’t use air pressure

wookiemeister said:

I’m thinking that the tyres won’t need some fancy gear to attach them to the steel

I’m thinking that if most roads were of some superior finish the tyres themselves might have a flatter cross section

there are tyres around for the military that don’t use air pressure

Yeah but… they’re developments at opposite ends. The military haven’t developed them for use on roads with superior finish.

Sticking with cars; The last 3 sedans I’ve owned have had the boot lid designed in such a way that when it rains it fills up with water, which then pours over you and into the boot compartment the next time you open the boot.

Rather frustrating.

Again with cars; my Suzuki has a spare wheel fitted to the rear door that leaves a gap that fills with leaves and dirt that cannot be removed even using a high pressure water jet.

morrie said:

Again with cars; my Suzuki has a spare wheel fitted to the rear door that leaves a gap that fills with leaves and dirt that cannot be removed even using a high pressure water jet.

The bonnet vents on a mitsubishi starion direct rain directly onto the electronics in the engine bay (a mate of mine had one and always had to have a can of WD40 under the passenger seat for rainy days)

>>Another car thing is keyless entry and starting. In some cars it is possible to get in and drive off with your car if the keys are close enough, like in the hall table, but when you get to your destination, you cannot lock your car or start it after it has stopped.<<

This one.

buffy said:

>>Another car thing is keyless entry and starting. In some cars it is possible to get in and drive off with your car if the keys are close enough, like in the hall table, but when you get to your destination, you cannot lock your car or start it after it has stopped.<<

This one.

Keyless entry range is typically very small. So this is not a genuine issue

And I still like wind down windows on my car. Which is why my Mazda2 will be kept going as long as it possibly can be made to keep going.

Mr buffy says the electronics won’t go wrong, and I am just stuck in my ways and should accept electric windows.

buffy said:

Mr buffy says the electronics won’t go wrong, and I am just stuck in my ways and should accept electric windows.

Tell Mr buffy he is dead wrong.

buffy said:

Mr buffy says the electronics won’t go wrong, and I am just stuck in my ways and should accept electric windows.

electrics never fail

I might go a make a batch of sausage rolls

But then I have refused to drive his new car because it wants to drive for you. I suppose at some stage I should at least find out how to start it. I might need to move it one day. When I drive, it is me who drives, not some electronic thing in the car.

And as I’ve mentioned before, I don’t understand why he can’t set all the things he wants and profile it for him. Everytime you get in all the gizmos are go. So if you don’t routinely want the beepy thingy that says you have strayed near the white line (or the bit of water on the road that it thinks might be a white line) you have to turn it off when you get in the car and start it. And if someone passes you it beeps to tell you they are in front of you…..this is insanely irritating. I have eyes. And I don’t like it turning itself off when you stop at the lights.

I should stop now.

buffy said:

But then I have refused to drive his new car because it wants to drive for you. I suppose at some stage I should at least find out how to start it. I might need to move it one day. When I drive, it is me who drives, not some electronic thing in the car.

And as I’ve mentioned before, I don’t understand why he can’t set all the things he wants and profile it for him. Everytime you get in all the gizmos are go. So if you don’t routinely want the beepy thingy that says you have strayed near the white line (or the bit of water on the road that it thinks might be a white line) you have to turn it off when you get in the car and start it. And if someone passes you it beeps to tell you they are in front of you…..this is insanely irritating. I have eyes. And I don’t like it turning itself off when you stop at the lights.

I should stop now.

Yes you should.

New cars are orders of magnitude safer than even cars of a decade ago..

Ridiculous nostalgia for ‘simple’ things is idiotic compared to ABS, stability control, traction control, better body construction, full curtain airbags etc etc

Dropbear said:

buffy said:

>>Another car thing is keyless entry and starting. In some cars it is possible to get in and drive off with your car if the keys are close enough, like in the hall table, but when you get to your destination, you cannot lock your car or start it after it has stopped.<<

This one.

Keyless entry range is typically very small. So this is not a genuine issue

Cockburn of Wheels did the test at this years Car of The Year. He got to 200 meters for some, albeit that was outside without walls and stuff.

In the Brisbane floods a few years ago, an old gentlemans car got washed into a river and he nearly drowned when the doors were wedged shut and he couldn’t wind down the electric windows to escape.

I find following one of these offensive.

fsm said:

In the Brisbane floods a few years ago, an old gentlemans car got washed into a river and he nearly drowned when the doors were wedged shut and he couldn’t wind down the electric windows to escape.

The Mythbuster recommend carrying a glass breaking hammer in the glovebox.

new military tire, but, it has more than one nut

New honeycomb tire is ‘bulletproof’

party_pants said:

fsm said:

In the Brisbane floods a few years ago, an old gentlemans car got washed into a river and he nearly drowned when the doors were wedged shut and he couldn’t wind down the electric windows to escape.

The Mythbuster recommend carrying a glass breaking hammer in the glovebox.

Maybe they should have a power fail automatic opening system like sliding doors have.

Pajeros have the radio antenna on the passenger’s side above the wheel arch, so that the thing will be broken by any street tree the overhangs the road when you attempt to park. My most recent one was broken by a dead branch that was jutting out into the roadway. I have lost count of the replacements I have paid for. When I get around to it I am going to mount a flexible one on the roo bar.

Dropbear said:

buffy said:

But then I have refused to drive his new car because it wants to drive for you. I suppose at some stage I should at least find out how to start it. I might need to move it one day. When I drive, it is me who drives, not some electronic thing in the car.

And as I’ve mentioned before, I don’t understand why he can’t set all the things he wants and profile it for him. Everytime you get in all the gizmos are go. So if you don’t routinely want the beepy thingy that says you have strayed near the white line (or the bit of water on the road that it thinks might be a white line) you have to turn it off when you get in the car and start it. And if someone passes you it beeps to tell you they are in front of you…..this is insanely irritating. I have eyes. And I don’t like it turning itself off when you stop at the lights.

I should stop now.

Yes you should.

New cars are orders of magnitude safer than even cars of a decade ago..

Ridiculous nostalgia for ‘simple’ things is idiotic compared to ABS, stability control, traction control, better body construction, full curtain airbags etc etc

GSEOH

I’m not sure I said all innovation was bad. But somethings are just for the sake of showing off. Personally I don’t think airbags were such a necessity here as we have Thou Shalt Wear Thine Seatbelt laws. The only reason we got compulsory airbags really was the American’s right to chose and refusal to buckle up. But they outnumber us, so we can’t do a lot about that. The newer braking systems are, indeed good. I learnt to pump the brakes. And I learnt to drive out of a corner. But that would only be because Mr buffy had done advanced driving of amberlances and said I had to at least know some of the basic stuff.

But a lot of the technology is giving the driver a sense that they do not actually have to pay attention themselves. Similar to what I was reading in Scientific American last night about how Google is giving people the sense that they don’t actually have to learn any facts any more because you can always Google.

Hello solar flares……

And sometimes I think the most basic of electronic information rules is forgotten….back up, back up and back up again. Preferably in different media.

I’m not sure about the auto switch off system.
It requires a fairly large battery input to restart. Would the restart cost more energy/fuel than slow idle?

> they don’t actually have to learn any facts any more because you can always Google.

But surely by Googling, they learn more facts than they used to.

Well, since this is actually “Annoying design examples”, here’s my example of the most annoying design from the masters of form over function, Apple.

The ipod shuffle.

It is an MP3 player. You put music on it, and play it back. So difficult to fuck it up, but they managed to do it. How does it annoy me? Let me count the ways.

1. You need to install itunes to copy music to it. None of the itunes clones worked. I will not go into all the issues with itunes here.
2. It has no buttons. The buttons are on the headphone lead, meaning you had to use the supplied earbuds, or none at all.
3. There was no way to fast-forward through a track. If you wanted to listen to the end of a 60 minute podcast, you’re shit out of luck.
4. The headphone socket doubles as the USB socket, so you cannot charge it while listening to it.
5. Has a specialised cable, so you have to carry around yet another cable.
6. The cable is 50mm long, so the player always swung in the breeze while charging. This put strain on the cable and so it fails, forcing you to buy another one. (or a new non-apple player, in my case)

>>But surely by Googling, they learn more facts than they used to.<<

Apparently as there is no incentive to recall them, people just don’t.

Bubblecar said:

> they don’t actually have to learn any facts any more because you can always Google.

But surely by Googling, they learn more facts than they used to.

Not if they use wikipedia.

Tamb said:

I’m not sure about the auto switch off system.
It requires a fairly large battery input to restart. Would the restart cost more energy/fuel than slow idle?

The hybrids are designed by smarter people than you or I, and they have determined the most efficient way to do things.

Bubblecar said:

> they don’t actually have to learn any facts any more because you can always Google.

But surely by Googling, they learn more facts than they used to.

It’s a new world out there, rote learning of facts is a bad way to teach.

This is a great article:

http://www.wired.com/business/2013/10/free-thinkers/

Mr buffy says the battery is made bigger..so yes, there is a cost. He thinks he will have to replace his battery sooner than I will in my Mazda. I have just turned over 205,000km on the original battery.

Carmen_Sandiego said:

Tamb said:

I’m not sure about the auto switch off system.
It requires a fairly large battery input to restart. Would the restart cost more energy/fuel than slow idle?

The hybrids are designed by smarter people than you or I, and they have determined the most efficient way to do things.

Possibly not. They design to comply with legislation.
I had a Mazda 626 which had a blower in the exhaust. The law called for a maximum of X mg of CO2 per litre. The cheap way to get this was to blow air into the exhaust to dilute the CO2. Thus the car actually used more fuel with it fitted.

buffy said:

Mr buffy says the battery is made bigger..so yes, there is a cost. He thinks he will have to replace his battery sooner than I will in my Mazda. I have just turned over 205,000km on the original battery.

Is his a hybrid?

Carmen_Sandiego said:

Well, since this is actually “Annoying design examples”, here’s my example of the most annoying design from the masters of form over function, Apple.

The ipod shuffle.
!http://images.apple.com/support/ipod/five_rs/images/welcome_shuffle3gen.jpg

It is an MP3 player. You put music on it, and play it back. So difficult to fuck it up, but they managed to do it. How does it annoy me? Let me count the ways.

1. You need to install itunes to copy music to it. None of the itunes clones worked. I will not go into all the issues with itunes here.
2. It has no buttons. The buttons are on the headphone lead, meaning you had to use the supplied earbuds, or none at all.
3. There was no way to fast-forward through a track. If you wanted to listen to the end of a 60 minute podcast, you’re shit out of luck.
4. The headphone socket doubles as the USB socket, so you cannot charge it while listening to it.
5. Has a specialised cable, so you have to carry around yet another cable.
6. The cable is 50mm long, so the player always swung in the breeze while charging. This put strain on the cable and so it fails, forcing you to buy another one. (or a new non-apple player, in my case)

I believe that the shuffle was never intended to be sold. That’s why they spend almost no time on it. The company produces products that seems cheap.. are cheap and work terribly to prompt you to buy the product they really want you to buy.

>> I have just turned over 205,000km on the original

Blimey.

I wouldn’t say I’m offended, but I’m highly annoyed at the design of toilet paper when the layers don’t line up properly and you tear off some sheets and one layer is longer than the other.

Divine Angel said:

I wouldn’t say I’m offended, but I’m highly annoyed at the design of toilet paper when the layers don’t line up properly and you tear off some sheets and one layer is longer than the other.

Or a toilet paper roll which needs to be mangled to get it started.

Speedy said:

Divine Angel said:

I wouldn’t say I’m offended, but I’m highly annoyed at the design of toilet paper when the layers don’t line up properly and you tear off some sheets and one layer is longer than the other.

Or a toilet paper roll which needs to be mangled to get it started.

A clever marketing ploy. You throw away some of the outer layers to get the roll started.

Speedy said:

Divine Angel said:

I wouldn’t say I’m offended, but I’m highly annoyed at the design of toilet paper when the layers don’t line up properly and you tear off some sheets and one layer is longer than the other.

Or a toilet paper roll which needs to be mangled to get it started.

Don’t even get me started.

Or those ones where they used too much glue and it keeps getting stuck at the same point when you unroll it.

I think the use of the word ‘offended’ is extreme

Arts said:

I think the use of the word ‘offended’ is extreme

Yes, “outraged” would have sufficed.

Bubblecar said:

Arts said:

I think the use of the word ‘offended’ is extreme

Yes, “outraged” would have sufficed.

Or peevish.

>>Is his a hybrid?<<

No, last year’s Forester.

>>You throw away some of the outer layers to get the roll started.<<

You do? I just use them as I would any other bit of the roll.

Oh, and when the layers are out of synch, it’s usually just necessary to unroll the top layer about 3/4 of a turn to get the layers lined up again.

Why do I know so much about toilet rolls?

I have just turned over 205,000km on the original

that tells us nothing. you could do that in a year. how old is the battery, make etc will tell us more.

buffy said:

Oh, and when the layers are out of synch, it’s usually just necessary to unroll the top layer about 3/4 of a turn to get the layers lined up again.

Yes. It’s usually on a 2-ply roll where instead of using layer 1 and 2, you’re using 2 and 1.

The car is a Mazda2 bought in January 2006, built in Dec 2005.

(Mr buffy just changed the oil and for some unknown reason read the dates on the plate while he was mucking about…)

buffy said:

>>You throw away some of the outer layers to get the roll started.<<

You do? I just use them as I would any other bit of the roll.

Oh, and when the layers are out of synch, it’s usually just necessary to unroll the top layer about 3/4 of a turn to get the layers lined up again.

Why do I know so much about toilet rolls?

LOL

More information, that 30000km per year is pretty much all country driving. Start car, drive out driveway, turn onto highway, run 30km at 100km/hr, slow down without brakes, do about 2km in town driving, park at work. In the evening, reverse the trip. It has done some trips to Melbourne over the years. It’s a manual.

buffy said:

>>Is his a hybrid?<<

No, last year’s Forester.

Interesting. I just looked it up, and a review claims the best thing about the “auto-off” feature is that it can be turned off. :)

I just asked Mr buffy and he says he does turn it off in the city as it’s a “pain in the arse”.

So you have done 205k and still on the original battery doing 30k per year.
The battery is nearly 7 years old, brilliant, what make is it?

Arts said:

I think the use of the word ‘offended’ is extreme

Yes, and probably not really appropriate for most of the examples listed. To be offended you take personal offense to a design. Most times if we do not like a design we will not purchase it for our own use, so we have no right to be offended by it, as we have lost nothing. However, sometimes a design is so hideous that the use by another stirs a reaction.

Anyhow, after giving this a bit of thought, I think the designs which justify us feeling offense, are those where a beautiful part of nature is replaced by a hideous design. It could be a butt-ugly house built in the bush or on a beach, or simply an ugly piece of furniture built from hardwood sourced in the forests of Borneo or Tasmania.

I still find it incomprehensible that you can’t program the car as you want it and then leave it that way. This programming (turning off the stuff you don’t want) every time you turn the thing on is stupid.

buffy said:

More information, that 30000km per year is pretty much all country driving. Start car, drive out driveway, turn onto highway, run 30km at 100km/hr, slow down without brakes, do about 2km in town driving, park at work. In the evening, reverse the trip. It has done some trips to Melbourne over the years. It’s a manual.

Motor car battery life is (loosely and complexly) related to the number of starts per kilometre driven, and size of battery vs current drawn by the starter. A car that does short trips only will have a shorter battery life than one that does long trips only. The car that draw lots of cranking amps out of a small battery will have a shorter battery life than the car that draws little from a large battery.

Can’t really help you with the brand PWM…the label seems to be in Japanese. There are some numbers and letter on it…55D23L MF. No idea if that helps or not.

Michael V said:

buffy said:

More information, that 30000km per year is pretty much all country driving. Start car, drive out driveway, turn onto highway, run 30km at 100km/hr, slow down without brakes, do about 2km in town driving, park at work. In the evening, reverse the trip. It has done some trips to Melbourne over the years. It’s a manual.

Motor car battery life is (loosely and complexly) related to the number of starts per kilometre driven, and size of battery vs current drawn by the starter. A car that does short trips only will have a shorter battery life than one that does long trips only. The car that draw lots of cranking amps out of a small battery will have a shorter battery life than the car that draws little from a large battery.

This is another reason to be anti auto switch off.

my neighbours subaru remembers different drivers. i don’t know how deep it goes but seat, climate control, music and some other stuff can be programmed.

Carmen_Sandiego said:

Well, since this is actually “Annoying design examples”, here’s my example of the most annoying design from the masters of form over function, Apple.

The ipod shuffle.
http://images.apple.com/support/ipod/five_rs/images/welcome_shuffle3gen.jpg

It is an MP3 player. You put music on it, and play it back. So difficult to fuck it up, but they managed to do it. How does it annoy me? Let me count the ways.

This is completely off-topic (almost; I looked at what was available and decided none of them met my standards,) but I built my own MP3 player. The features of which I’m most proud are that a) it doesn’t need a battery. There’s a plug for an external power supply if you need one, but it scavenges power from radio waves; and b) it can play almost any format (with MP3, Ogg-Vorbis, FLAC, wav, aiff, and au the most common.)

And it’s got a fast-forward button :) And fast reverse.

Wocky said:

Carmen_Sandiego said:

Well, since this is actually “Annoying design examples”, here’s my example of the most annoying design from the masters of form over function, Apple.

The ipod shuffle.
http://images.apple.com/support/ipod/five_rs/images/welcome_shuffle3gen.jpg

It is an MP3 player. You put music on it, and play it back. So difficult to fuck it up, but they managed to do it. How does it annoy me? Let me count the ways.

This is completely off-topic (almost; I looked at what was available and decided none of them met my standards,) but I built my own MP3 player. The features of which I’m most proud are that a) it doesn’t need a battery. There’s a plug for an external power supply if you need one, but it scavenges power from radio waves; and b) it can play almost any format (with MP3, Ogg-Vorbis, FLAC, wav, aiff, and au the most common.)

And it’s got a fast-forward button :) And fast reverse.

Excellent stuff! The antithesis of offensive design.

Michael V said:

Wocky said:

Carmen_Sandiego said:

Well, since this is actually “Annoying design examples”, here’s my example of the most annoying design from the masters of form over function, Apple.

The ipod shuffle.
http://images.apple.com/support/ipod/five_rs/images/welcome_shuffle3gen.jpg

It is an MP3 player. You put music on it, and play it back. So difficult to fuck it up, but they managed to do it. How does it annoy me? Let me count the ways.

This is completely off-topic (almost; I looked at what was available and decided none of them met my standards,) but I built my own MP3 player. The features of which I’m most proud are that a) it doesn’t need a battery. There’s a plug for an external power supply if you need one, but it scavenges power from radio waves; and b) it can play almost any format (with MP3, Ogg-Vorbis, FLAC, wav, aiff, and au the most common.)

And it’s got a fast-forward button :) And fast reverse.

Excellent stuff! The antithesis of offensive design.

how big a speaker can be powered from scavenged radio waves?

how big a speaker can be powered from scavenged radio waves?

just little ones that you fit in your ear.

Riff-in-Thyme said:

how big a speaker can be powered from scavenged radio waves?

Earphones only, but it can be plugged into an external amplifier.

JudgeMental said:

how big a speaker can be powered from scavenged radio waves?

just little ones that you fit in your ear.

would the dynamo in one of those wind up torches be enough to power a transmitter?

would the dynamo in one of those wind up torches be enough to power a transmitter?

would imagine so. not a very powerful one though. though mobile phones seem to do alright with the little battery they have.

buffy said:

I still find it incomprehensible that you can’t program the car as you want it and then leave it that way. This programming (turning off the stuff you don’t want) every time you turn the thing on is stupid.

Batman used to have the same problem with the Batmobile – every time he started up, it was “Atomic batteries to power….turbines to speed…”

You know what I find offensive?

Designing the keyboard witH THE CAPS LOCK KEY DIRECTLY ABOVE THE SHift key.

Neophyte said:

buffy said:

I still find it incomprehensible that you can’t program the car as you want it and then leave it that way. This programming (turning off the stuff you don’t want) every time you turn the thing on is stupid.

Batman used to have the same problem with the Batmobile – every time he started up, it was “Atomic batteries to power….turbines to speed…”

they had less problem assigning personalised “biff” “kapow” “wap’s”

Divine Angel said:

buffy said:

>>You throw away some of the outer layers to get the roll started.<<

You do? I just use them as I would any other bit of the roll.

Oh, and when the layers are out of synch, it’s usually just necessary to unroll the top layer about 3/4 of a turn to get the layers lined up again.

Why do I know so much about toilet rolls?

LOL

you left out one important offensive design feature

toilet rolls that can be placed in the toilet roll holder the wrong way

it should be designed so that the toilet roll paper unwinds closest to you, not the other
way where the toilet paper unwinds close to the wall

like this, and all toilet roll holders should have an ipod dock

Toilet seats that have no heating

All toilet seats must be heated

using wocky’s radio wave energy generator

or solar power

and all toilets must have solar powered exhaust fans

CrazyNeutrino said:

Toilet seats that have no heating

All toilet seats must be heated

using wocky’s radio wave energy generator

or solar power

and all toilets must have solar powered exhaust fans

you’d have nuclear powered toilet seats for warming

wookiemeister said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

Toilet seats that have no heating

All toilet seats must be heated

using wocky’s radio wave energy generator

or solar power

and all toilets must have solar powered exhaust fans

you’d have nuclear powered toilet seats for warming

You probably could have a toilet seat made from decaying uranium or something, and if it was shielded should be safe? Though it would probably cost a bomb and Iran would have toilet seats added to its embargoed imports.

>cost a bomb

polite clap

iTunes problem number 1

when you rip your cd collection to your ipod along with your itunes purchased music

when you go to restore your music collection from your ipod to the computer

it transfers your itunes purchased music but leaves your ripped cd music on the ipod

?

iTunes problem number 2

it also leaves your playlists on the ipod when you try to restore your collection

?

iTunes problem number 3

why do we have to manually create a playlist for each album

itunes should have a feature to have an automatic album playlist creation when you either download an album from itunes or rip a cd

?

iTunes problem number 4

in iTunes why do we have to drag a playlist up to the ipod icon

why cant we just select the playlist in iTunes and choose SEND PLAYLIST TO IPOD

?

iTunes problem number 5

why do Americans have cheaper music and movies

we pay nearly twice as much

?

it should be designed so that the toilet roll paper unwinds closest to you, not the other
way where the toilet paper unwinds close to the wall
——-
Why?

I prefer it the other way.

no heated toilet seats for the Iranians then

and the North Koreans, none for them either

one thing I have never understood about the race for nuclear weapons

why bother??

a precisely guided conventional warhead in the right place at the right time can do more lasting damage than a nuclear warhead

in fact the end of civilisation as we know it could happen just using conventional warheads and not too many of them either

the nuclear warhead race was really a mad fascination of the cold war – the threat of annihilation – the cold war was about having the option to exterminate entire countries

the more frightening option for any country facing the threat of nuclear weapons, make plans to protect your people and then make an all out assault on the enemy country and resettle your population in their country now they have blown your country to smithereens.

try holding back millions of people. the romans were boned in this way in the end

the only real use for nuclear power are subs or spaceships.

Michael V said:

it should be designed so that the toilet roll paper unwinds closest to you, not the other
way where the toilet paper unwinds close to the wall
——-
Why?

I prefer it the other way.

why?

you have to reach further for it

>>>the only real use for nuclear power are subs or spaceships.

and heating toilet seats

CrazyNeutrino said:

Michael V said:

it should be designed so that the toilet roll paper unwinds closest to you, not the other
way where the toilet paper unwinds close to the wall
——-
Why?

I prefer it the other way.

why?

you have to reach further for it

Well I’ll be. Reaching an extra 10 cm (max) is not a deal breaker, IMHO.

I buy some music online and buy some locally

I don’t believe in iTunes – I prefer having tangible music storage in the form of a CD

if I were pushed for space then not having a CD collection would be preferable

I bought “live it out” by metric recently for 15 bucks including postage it took 5 weeks to arrive.

Michael V said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

Michael V said:

it should be designed so that the toilet roll paper unwinds closest to you, not the other
way where the toilet paper unwinds close to the wall
——-
Why?

I prefer it the other way.

why?

you have to reach further for it

Well I’ll be. Reaching an extra 10 cm (max) is not a deal breaker, IMHO.

now calculate that extra 10cm over your whole life span

nuclear weapons are too destructive – the purpose of war is to gain something

the Iranians should save their money and work out how to make energy using solar instead of building nuclear powerstations – they are a waste of time and money like all heat engines. only solid state energy devices have the longevity and reliability needed for modern powersystems.

wookiemeister said:

nuclear weapons are too destructive – the purpose of war is to gain something

the Iranians should save their money and work out how to make energy using solar instead of building nuclear powerstations – they are a waste of time and money like all heat engines. only solid state energy devices have the longevity and reliability needed for modern powersystems.

yes, but we are not selling them any heated toilet seats

that’s been decided

CrazyNeutrino said:

Michael V said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

why?

you have to reach further for it

Well I’ll be. Reaching an extra 10 cm (max) is not a deal breaker, IMHO.

now calculate that extra 10cm over your whole life span

Think of the extra exercise. No pain, no gain, so they say.

Also, think of the times a breeze has caught the end flap of the toilet roll and unwound much of the roll. Interestingly, that happens far less frequently if the flap is against the wall, its movement damped by a bit of extra friction.

wookiemeister said:

nuclear weapons are too destructive – the purpose of war is to gain something

the Iranians should save their money and work out how to make energy using solar instead of building nuclear powerstations – they are a waste of time and money like all heat engines. only solid state energy devices have the longevity and reliability needed for modern powersystems.

They are moving that way. With Iraq no longer a threat, Syria a mess, keen for dollars and with a more moderate leadership they will move to agreeing to proposals to modify nuclear research in return for removal of sanctions.

Michael V said:

Also, think of the times a breeze has caught the end flap of the toilet roll and unwound much of the roll.

Does that ever happen?

The only time I have seen a roll unravel was when some puppies got to it and had a great time ripping it up.

Skunkworks said:

Michael V said:

Also, think of the times a breeze has caught the end flap of the toilet roll and unwound much of the roll.

Does that ever happen?

It used to.

wookiemeister said:

I buy some music online and buy some locally

I don’t believe in iTunes – I prefer having tangible music storage in the form of a CD

if I were pushed for space then not having a CD collection would be preferable

I bought “live it out” by metric recently for 15 bucks including postage it took 5 weeks to arrive.

I would like to buy a usb stick with a music collection on it for listening to while we are working. Nothing too over the top – just a collection of easy listening stuff. Can’t see anything on offer. A couple of friends have collections that would suit, but they don’t seem to be transferable.

I was searching for Beethoven

found this gem, funny or offensive?

umm slightly nsfw

Twerking to Beethoven

Skeptic Pete said:

It must be just you cause I’ve never actually noticed that.

My mags have five spokes and five nuts.

I’m offended by incorrect terminology.

Mag is short for magnesium, and wheels aren’t made of magnesium ( any more).

uswed to work at CAC and they made mag wheels there. every now and then it was as if a thousand suns had come down to earth over in that section.

JudgeMental said:

uswed to work at CAC and they made mag wheels there. every now and then it was as if a thousand suns had come down to earth over in that section.

:)

A bit of a fire hazard weren’t they?

especially when you have heaps of swarf.

JudgeMental said:

especially when you have heaps of swarf.

I remember that being a bit of fun in the chem lab at school. Magnesium ribbon was the product out ( 9 fingered) chem teacher used to get out for a little pyro fun.

I’ll tell you what offended me…………………. and it’s taken me a while to even be able to talk about it.
and………………………………and…………………………I still don’t think I’m ready.

pommiejohn said:

Skeptic Pete said:

It must be just you cause I’ve never actually noticed that.

My mags have five spokes and five nuts.

I’m offended by incorrect terminology.

Mag is short for magnesium, and wheels aren’t made of magnesium ( any more).

good point

Peak Warming Man said:

I’ll tell you what offended me…………………. and it’s taken me a while to even be able to talk about it.
and………………………………and…………………………I still don’t think I’m ready.

Um … you drive a Camry wagon with 5 spoked, 4 nutted wheels, love your iPod and don’t know how to put toilet paper in the holder properly?

Speedy said:

Peak Warming Man said:

I’ll tell you what offended me…………………. and it’s taken me a while to even be able to talk about it.
and………………………………and…………………………I still don’t think I’m ready.

Um … you drive a Camry wagon with 5 spoked, 4 nutted wheels, love your iPod and don’t know how to put toilet paper in the holder properly?

No No, it’s nothing like that.
I may as well just blurt it out before I breakdown again………..gulp

It was the Curiosity landing………………..it was live……………………….and…………………….and they had the velocity in miles per second and the altitude in kilometres…………………phew

That wasn’t so bad.

Sour-flavoured sweets. The should be sold in plain packaging with warning labels so you don’t buy them by mistake.

Peak Warming Man said:

Speedy said:

Peak Warming Man said:

I’ll tell you what offended me…………………. and it’s taken me a while to even be able to talk about it.
and………………………………and…………………………I still don’t think I’m ready.

Um … you drive a Camry wagon with 5 spoked, 4 nutted wheels, love your iPod and don’t know how to put toilet paper in the holder properly?

No No, it’s nothing like that.
I may as well just blurt it out before I breakdown again………..gulp

It was the Curiosity landing………………..it was live……………………….and…………………….and they had the velocity in miles per second and the altitude in kilometres…………………phew

That wasn’t so bad.

well, NASA is changing………….slowly……..

party_pants said:

Sour-flavoured sweets. The should be sold in plain packaging with warning labels so you don’t buy them by mistake.

They are all labelled sour.

Peak Warming Man said:

It was the Curiosity landing………………..it was live……………………….and…………………….and they had the velocity in miles per second and the altitude in kilometres…………………phew

That wasn’t so bad.

Due to conventions it can be very annoying reading books that describe planes flying at x km of hour capable of dropping x thousands of pounds of bombs. Happens a lot in military history books.

And an aside.

Secrets of War

11.30pm – 12.30am
7TWO

Investigate stories that were not told on the nightly news about the Allied air campaign during Operation Desert Storm.

Skunkworks said:

Peak Warming Man said:

It was the Curiosity landing………………..it was live……………………….and…………………….and they had the velocity in miles per second and the altitude in kilometres…………………phew

That wasn’t so bad.

Due to conventions it can be very annoying reading books that describe planes flying at x km of hour capable of dropping x thousands of pounds of bombs. Happens a lot in military history books.

And an aside.

Secrets of War

11.30pm – 12.30am
7TWO

Investigate stories that were not told on the nightly news about the Allied air campaign during Operation Desert Storm.

can you tell me what those stories were, I’m not staying up that late tonight

did they find those weapons of mass destruction after all?

wookiemeister said:

can you tell me what those stories were, I’m not staying up that late tonight

did they find those weapons of mass destruction after all?

Not seen the program.

its a shame that Australia doesn’t have any credible defence systems, it would mean we could have stayed out of the religious wars in the middle east meant to fulfil the prophecy of Abraham. now we are tied with a rope round our neck for every foolhardy, unwinnable war since ww2 that America has a mind to get involved with, as such Australia’s last military victory was Malaysia some 60 years ago. even the kiwis have to yanked out using a nose ring to fight doomed campaigns against young boys with no shoes carrying AK47s.

I wonder what doomed campaign America has in mind next?

the Collins class was sabotaged so that a credible naval defence didn’t exist. if you don’t have any navy to speak of you have to rely on the carriers of the americans. the gremlins threw the spanner into the works and now you’ve got a lot of “explanations” about why things didn’t work.

Australia has no home grown SAM system/ anti tank weapon. in the event of an invasion these kinds are so very useful to stymie and resist an attack. if someone decides to shut your SAM system by providing a code to the enemy to disable the missile then you are stuffed.

no home grown night vision systems as far as I’m aware

all of the things you’d expect a modern defence force to have doesn’t exist here

even the rifle isn’t home grown its made under licence – anyone designing an owen gun here now would be thrown into gaol.

classic case of sun Tzu’s fifth column – don’t go to war just undermine the governing bureaucracy.

wookiemeister said:

its a shame that Australia doesn’t have any credible defence systems, it would mean we could have stayed out of the religious wars in the middle east meant to fulfil the prophecy of Abraham. now we are tied with a rope round our neck for every foolhardy, unwinnable war since ww2 that America has a mind to get involved with, as such Australia’s last military victory was Malaysia some 60 years ago. even the kiwis have to yanked out using a nose ring to fight doomed campaigns against young boys with no shoes carrying AK47s.

I wonder what doomed campaign America has in mind next?

the Collins class was sabotaged so that a credible naval defence didn’t exist. if you don’t have any navy to speak of you have to rely on the carriers of the americans. the gremlins threw the spanner into the works and now you’ve got a lot of “explanations” about why things didn’t work.

Australia has no home grown SAM system/ anti tank weapon. in the event of an invasion these kinds are so very useful to stymie and resist an attack. if someone decides to shut your SAM system by providing a code to the enemy to disable the missile then you are stuffed.

no home grown night vision systems as far as I’m aware

all of the things you’d expect a modern defence force to have doesn’t exist here

even the rifle isn’t home grown its made under licence – anyone designing an owen gun here now would be thrown into gaol.

classic case of sun Tzu’s fifth column – don’t go to war just undermine the governing bureaucracy.

which, summarised is?

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

its a shame that Australia doesn’t have any credible defence systems, it would mean we could have stayed out of the religious wars in the middle east meant to fulfil the prophecy of Abraham. now we are tied with a rope round our neck for every foolhardy, unwinnable war since ww2 that America has a mind to get involved with, as such Australia’s last military victory was Malaysia some 60 years ago. even the kiwis have to yanked out using a nose ring to fight doomed campaigns against young boys with no shoes carrying AK47s.

I wonder what doomed campaign America has in mind next?

the Collins class was sabotaged so that a credible naval defence didn’t exist. if you don’t have any navy to speak of you have to rely on the carriers of the americans. the gremlins threw the spanner into the works and now you’ve got a lot of “explanations” about why things didn’t work.

Australia has no home grown SAM system/ anti tank weapon. in the event of an invasion these kinds are so very useful to stymie and resist an attack. if someone decides to shut your SAM system by providing a code to the enemy to disable the missile then you are stuffed.

no home grown night vision systems as far as I’m aware

all of the things you’d expect a modern defence force to have doesn’t exist here

even the rifle isn’t home grown its made under licence – anyone designing an owen gun here now would be thrown into gaol.

classic case of sun Tzu’s fifth column – don’t go to war just undermine the governing bureaucracy.

which, summarised is?

just summarised

its the last chapter of the Samuel griffin translation of the art of war – “the fifth column”

wookiemeister said:

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

its a shame that Australia doesn’t have any credible defence systems, it would mean we could have stayed out of the religious wars in the middle east meant to fulfil the prophecy of Abraham. now we are tied with a rope round our neck for every foolhardy, unwinnable war since ww2 that America has a mind to get involved with, as such Australia’s last military victory was Malaysia some 60 years ago. even the kiwis have to yanked out using a nose ring to fight doomed campaigns against young boys with no shoes carrying AK47s.

I wonder what doomed campaign America has in mind next?

the Collins class was sabotaged so that a credible naval defence didn’t exist. if you don’t have any navy to speak of you have to rely on the carriers of the americans. the gremlins threw the spanner into the works and now you’ve got a lot of “explanations” about why things didn’t work.

Australia has no home grown SAM system/ anti tank weapon. in the event of an invasion these kinds are so very useful to stymie and resist an attack. if someone decides to shut your SAM system by providing a code to the enemy to disable the missile then you are stuffed.

no home grown night vision systems as far as I’m aware

all of the things you’d expect a modern defence force to have doesn’t exist here

even the rifle isn’t home grown its made under licence – anyone designing an owen gun here now would be thrown into gaol.

classic case of sun Tzu’s fifth column – don’t go to war just undermine the governing bureaucracy.

which, summarised is?

just summarised

its the last chapter of the Samuel griffin translation of the art of war – “the fifth column”

yeah. Which is why it wasn’t worth reading in the first place.

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

roughbarked said:

which, summarised is?

just summarised

its the last chapter of the Samuel griffin translation of the art of war – “the fifth column”

yeah. Which is why it wasn’t worth reading in the first place.

have you read it?

wookiemeister said:

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

just summarised

its the last chapter of the Samuel griffin translation of the art of war – “the fifth column”

yeah. Which is why it wasn’t worth reading in the first place.

have you read it?

I have no need to study war any more than I have.

it isn’t something I’d describe as art.

wookiemeister said:

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

just summarised

its the last chapter of the Samuel griffin translation of the art of war – “the fifth column”

yeah. Which is why it wasn’t worth reading in the first place.

have you read it?

That isn’t the SSSF way.

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

roughbarked said:

yeah. Which is why it wasn’t worth reading in the first place.

have you read it?

I have no need to study war any more than I have.

it isn’t something I’d describe as art.

its not studying war per se

its more a study of how things can go wrong with people who don’t know what they are doing in control

if you read between the lines its actually an anti war book – most people never picked up on it. most of the book mentions disasters, victory it self is few and far between – given that most people who run wars don’t know what they are doing . given that the same idiots rule the roost on each side its a war of attrition rather than strategy itself. its why we lost Iraq and Afghanistan and Vietnam.

wookiemeister said:

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

have you read it?

I have no need to study war any more than I have.

it isn’t something I’d describe as art.

its not studying war per se

its more a study of how things can go wrong with people who don’t know what they are doing in control

if you read between the lines its actually an anti war book – most people never picked up on it. most of the book mentions disasters, victory it self is few and far between – given that most people who run wars don’t know what they are doing . given that the same idiots rule the roost on each side its a war of attrition rather than strategy itself. its why we lost Iraq and Afghanistan and Vietnam.

Yes but this is life as we know it.. who wants to read the book?

roughbarked said:

Yes but this is life as we know it.. who wants to read the book?

So not read it then but being critical? The SSSF way.

Skunkworks said:

roughbarked said:

Yes but this is life as we know it.. who wants to read the book?

So not read it then but being critical? The SSSF way.

I’m unable to buy it.. so you’ll have to wait until I manage to borrow all the tomes from the library.

roughbarked said:

Skunkworks said:

roughbarked said:

Yes but this is life as we know it.. who wants to read the book?

So not read it then but being critical? The SSSF way.

I’m unable to buy it.. so you’ll have to wait until I manage to borrow all the tomes from the library.

get the Samuel B griffin translation

its readable

I looked at a chinese translation of it by some chinese general in a book store and laughed my head off, it was barely readable – exactly what you’d do If you didn’t want anyone to understand the book and discourage people to know the real story! you flood the market with translations that are unreadable to make it harder to find the real translation.