after the Israelis started using our passports to assassinate someone in Dubai and after just reading about this character who slipped out of the country after killing someone using someone elses passport ..and other various criminals using our passports I had a thought after waking once again.

.After receiving bail, he slipped out of Australia on a false passport and eluded police up until late last month, when he was arrested in a regional city several hours north of New Delhi..

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-12-13/mother-of-indian-hit-and-run-driver-in-australia-defends-son/5153878

something else came to mind

after having some success the queensland government is now bringing in laws to make sure that electoral fraud is harder to perpetrate

I’ve suddenly realised I could have some success it tightening up passport control with a brilliant idea.

the fact is that someone’s passport could be used to leave or enter a country falsely, of course you have protests of innocence from the “victim” of the crime (the true holder of the passport). its very hard to prove that they have willingly given their passport to be used for nefarious purposes.

now brace yourself for this radical idea – you probably won’t like it

you have a PIN that is linked with your passport – when you leave and enter any country you must use the PIN to activate the passport – no finger prints (there is an issue with registering peoples finger prints as they are not known criminals)

if someone gives you their passport and give you their PIN to use it then they are implicated with the crime – someone who gives their PIN out to another person to use it falsely receives a 50,000 dollar fine and is prosecuted mandatory gaol time 5 years no parole period, no existing gaol time taken into consideration, the prison time starts from the day you are sentenced.

the PIN idea also means that the passport can’t be used even if it is stolen – sweet eh? some ragamuffin might steal your passport but it will be of no use to them. oh yes you might well be captured and be forced to tell them your PIN – in this case you give them a similar back up PIN – this immediately alerts the authorities you have been kidnapped , the person entering is in league with them – let them pass but put a tail on them (mobile phone IDs can be captured on arrival at the airport). when you are turfed out byt he gang or killed the person using the passport is immediately gaoled and the full force of vengeance can be visited upon them and their friends.

the PIN idea would cost little if any money – the person entering the country would simply tell the passport control officer what their PIN is – just writing it down and giving it to the officer. the PIN entered and the paper ripped up infront of the customer.

this would be most effective where entering and leaving Australia – unfortunately this PIN number could not be shared by any other gov or agency by law – anyone sharing this information would receive a manadatory prison sentence of 20 years no parole and a fine of 300,000 dollars (a house). another government could call the Australian gov and tell them they had a suspicious person, the local Australian consulate could be used to question this person and ask them their PIN.

you have a PIN that is linked with your passport – when you leave and enter any country you must use the PIN to activate the passport – no finger prints (there is an issue with registering peoples finger prints as they are not known criminals)
===

that was mistake

I meant Australia

you could however have two PINS one for international travel using suspect foreign governments hell bent on spreading fear and mayhem and an Australian PIN for entering and leaving australia

the international P!N number could also have a secret code within it to alert Australian authorities only (assuming the foreign government is in on the crime), if its then used by a terrorist to enter a country and the authorities of that country are suspicious they can then again call the consulate and in turn ASIO if the number has the panic number.

this means that if the person handing their passport over has given them the true number they are in on it – no toturer would be able to break the code because the victim would know that the moment they used the alarm code the government would know they were being harmed and this was not the true person entering.

a passport code could be broken up into 2 lots of easily remembered numbers with three letters

eg

1234 5678 ABC

the alarm code could be

1234 6678 ABC (you change one number or letter)

someone leaving Australia with the alarm code would be immediately stopped at customs and the police swoop on the residence and an immediate search conducted – anyone caught leveraging codes out of people would face a mandatory life sentence. no parole or other wise. this takes the problematic “discretion” out of the hands of judges.

this could also be used to stop children being whisked out of the country

if the person leaving doesn’t know the code of their children then they can’t leave

the passport will be examined for marks of people writing the code inside – that’s a fine.

too radical?

I might remind you we use PINs everyday to collect money and buy things

using a P!N to use your passport would be NO different

why should a very important document be open for fraudulent activity

oh yes

when you use your passport as identity for various documents you might be able to use this P!N idea to verify that you are indeed the true holder of the passport – not someone else.

Why not have a multipass card that can do everything, like having all your car, boat, motorbike, truck, heavy vehicles, plane, licenses, credit and debit cards, all identification cards, access buildings cards, passport, public transport cards, medicard cards etc all in one card

sure have a general day to day pin, have another pin for your birth certificate linked to your card, track or do not track card options, parental control to allow parents to control their children’s limited access to money, phone connections, types of media access, types of media content etc

and this multipass card would also have your photo, fingerprint, blood type, medical information and DNA information in it

and Im sure an all in card could do much more

>>>and Im sure an all in card could do much more

and Im sure an all in one card could do much more

We could call it the Strayer Card.

CrazyNeutrino said:

Why not have a multipass card that can do everything, like having all your car, boat, motorbike, truck, heavy vehicles, plane, licenses, credit and debit cards, all identification cards, access buildings cards, passport, public transport cards, medicard cards etc all in one card

sure have a general day to day pin, have another pin for your birth certificate linked to your card, track or do not track card options, parental control to allow parents to control their children’s limited access to money, phone connections, types of media access, types of media content etc

and this multipass card would also have your photo, fingerprint, blood type, medical information and DNA information in it

and Im sure an all in card could do much more

its a possibility but you might get loaded up with P!Ns in the end

I don’t like the ID of a dedicated ID card, its too much like a nazi Germany situation – I don’t agree with ID cards as such – human rights etc.

a passport is the back bone of identity checks , just use that we don’t need another card when we already have an existing document

I shouldn’t feel I need to carry this around at all times

of course you might opt not to give anyone your P!N when entering – that could be your right, but you will be detained and they’ll see who you are and if you have outstanding fines – if everything checks out you’ll be fined anyway for not giving your number and sent on your way – that would be a perfect way of revenue raising.

blood type , DNA are unnecessary for the government to know – unless you want to give that info – assuming you even know.

Ah crap – I have just flown 40 hours and had little sleep and jetlagged and tried three times and got all three goes wrong because it has been years since I have needed to use it – now what happens?

Carmen_Sandiego said:

Ah crap – I have just flown 40 hours and had little sleep and jetlagged and tried three times and got all three goes wrong because it has been years since I have needed to use it – now what happens?

Immigration detention centre.

Carmen_Sandiego said:

Ah crap – I have just flown 40 hours and had little sleep and jetlagged and tried three times and got all three goes wrong because it has been years since I have needed to use it – now what happens?

you probably wouldn’t be able to use your bank cards either to get money out.

and anyway

who says you have three goes?

Leeloo Dallas’s Multipass Card

Villains will use the new technology to their own benefit.

I predict your PIN system will be cracked and hacked by evil doers within hours of hitting the streets.

For everything else

Teleost said:

Villains will use the new technology to their own benefit.

I predict your PIN system will be cracked and hacked by evil doers within hours of hitting the streets.

in the same way they have cracked the banking PIN system were I have never had anyone crack my PIN number and have my card?

all I am doing is simply applying the same well worn tried and tested logic that keeps most people’s money safe – you wouldn’t expect to rock up to a bank today and withdraw money without a PIN or some form of bonafide ID

you can’t use your eftpos card without a PIN

you shouldn’t be able to use your passport without a P!N it stops the wrong people leaving or entering the country

wookiemeister said:

you shouldn’t be able to use your passport without a P!N it stops the wrong people leaving or entering the country

To determine whether this costly new system would be value for money we need to know how many people enter the country on false passports. I expect it is a very low number.

Witty Rejoinder said:

wookiemeister said:

you shouldn’t be able to use your passport without a P!N it stops the wrong people leaving or entering the country

To determine whether this costly new system would be value for money we need to know how many people enter the country on false passports. I expect it is a very low number.

On false Australian passports? Just the odd Mossad agent. No cause for alarm.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_identification_number#PIN_security

wookiemeister said:

Teleost said:

Villains will use the new technology to their own benefit.

I predict your PIN system will be cracked and hacked by evil doers within hours of hitting the streets.

in the same way they have cracked the banking PIN system were I have never had anyone crack my PIN number and have my card?

all I am doing is simply applying the same well worn tried and tested logic that keeps most people’s money safe – you wouldn’t expect to rock up to a bank today and withdraw money without a PIN or some form of bonafide ID

you can’t use your eftpos card without a PIN

you shouldn’t be able to use your passport without a P!N it stops the wrong people leaving or entering the country

How do you propose your new fangled passport is going to work in remote border crossings where electrickery is uncommon let alone a computer terminal with internet? Granted that aren’t many left, but there are still some left in the world.

I’ve had numerous hotels take my passport out the back for photocopying – it’s a government requirement in some countries. What’s to stop an unscrupulous individual skimming my data while they’re at it?

The idea may have merit, but I reckon it needs work.

BTW, I can and do use my card without a PIN. Depending on the establishment and their limits (usually $50.00), all I have to do is put it in or near the EFTPOS terminal and my money’s gone. No PIN, no signature, no ID.

Tap, tap and away!

I don’t have a PIN for my credit card. I sign for everything.

Reason? I am not much good a remembering random letter/number/capital-letter combinations. I suspect the bank would like me to get a PIN, and they keep hinting, but so far I haven’t been forced to PIN it.

Michael V said:

Reason? I am not much good a remembering random letter/number/capital-letter combinations. I suspect the bank would like me to get a PIN, and they keep hinting, but so far I haven’t been forced to PIN it.

They are very keen to get everyone using a PIN so i think your days are numbered. Surely you can choose something like a famous year to remember. Hard to forget what year something prominent happened.

i’m going to put a pin on my kid so his mum can’t take him back….

Riff-in-Thyme said:

i’m going to put a pin on my kid so his mum can’t take him back….

How do you do, voodoo?

Witty Rejoinder said:

Michael V said:

Reason? I am not much good a remembering random letter/number/capital-letter combinations. I suspect the bank would like me to get a PIN, and they keep hinting, but so far I haven’t been forced to PIN it.

They are very keen to get everyone using a PIN so i think your days are numbered. Surely you can choose something like a famous year to remember. Hard to forget what year something prominent happened.

Yeah, at some stage. (sigh)

Witty Rejoinder said:

Michael V said:

Reason? I am not much good a remembering random letter/number/capital-letter combinations. I suspect the bank would like me to get a PIN, and they keep hinting, but so far I haven’t been forced to PIN it.

They are very keen to get everyone using a PIN so i think your days are numbered. Surely you can choose something like a famous year to remember. Hard to forget what year something prominent happened.

My bank decides the PIN for you, and you just have to live with it. More secure that way, stops people all choosing “0000” or “1234” or the extremely devious “4321”. I tend to end up memorizing the pattern it makes on the keypad rather than the numbes themselves.

Angus Prune said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Michael V said:

Reason? I am not much good a remembering random letter/number/capital-letter combinations. I suspect the bank would like me to get a PIN, and they keep hinting, but so far I haven’t been forced to PIN it.

They are very keen to get everyone using a PIN so i think your days are numbered. Surely you can choose something like a famous year to remember. Hard to forget what year something prominent happened.

My bank decides the PIN for you, and you just have to live with it. More secure that way, stops people all choosing “0000” or “1234” or the extremely devious “4321”. I tend to end up memorizing the pattern it makes on the keypad rather than the numbes themselves.

My bank allows a 6 digit PIN. So I use 654321.

Initially the P!N would be used to check Australian travellers coming in under Australian passports. A P!N would link the passport to a known individual , like the people in Israel , you couldn’t claim you had no idea someone was using your passport – the P!N is the only thing that can activate the passport. The Australian P!N would be safeguarded in Australia by Australian services, it can’t be given to any other “agency”. It’s primary aim is to check the credentials of passport holders in and out of the country . An international PIN number could be given to the passport holder if need be. At any rate any country suspicious if the passport holder can call the local embassy and a rep contacted.

Banks brought in pins to stop fraud, passports the grand daddy of ID verification needs to have a pin to use the passport.

wookiemeister said:

An international PIN number could be given to the passport holder if need be. At any rate any country suspicious if the passport holder can call the local embassy and a rep contacted.

Banks brought in pins to stop fraud, passports the grand daddy of ID verification needs to have a pin to use the passport.

International if need be? Good god man it is passport, no need be about it. And why is a numpty putting in a PIN any better that a photo ID, an eyeball by an immigration clerk and the passport numbers and bona fides scrutinised on a secure immigration database?

I am not interested in spending a few extra sqillion dollars on preventing Israeli agents using Oz passports when anyone with some nouse can do the same 100 point check even without the resources of a state behind them, do you really think the bank clerk check that the electricity bills are genuine? They are easily faked or with some lead time easily obtained legitimately.

And that is not even going into the hall of mirrors where the Israeli government might have been given the passports.

Why don’t they just have a database of which passports are in the country? If someone tries to leave on a fake passport, or an undeclared passport it won’t be in the database.

There could be an system in place where nations could validate their issued passports over the internet to foreign passport control. If passports were created with readable digital data including the holder’s details and image, foreign passport control can first check if they match the printed details and image, then they send the digital data back to the issuing country to be confirmed against the original details and face supplied when the passport was issued. This would mean a country could only create fake passports for their own country.

Malaysian investigators are checking the identity of four passengers on a missing Malaysia Airlines flight, but have not yet determined if the plane was downed by an attack, the country’s transport minister has said.

Six Australian passengers were among the 239 people on board Malaysia Airlines flight MH370, which disappeared en route to Beijing from Kuala Lumpur on Saturday morning (AEDT).

European officials said it appeared two people on board were using stolen passports and Malaysian transport minister Hishammuddin Hussein said authorities were also checking the identities of two other passengers

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-09/malaysia-looking-at-possible-terror-link-in-plane-disappearance/5308688

if passports required a PIN number for them to be used stolen passports couldn’t be used (or would be much less likely to be used) by terrorists to blow up aircraft.

a terrorist would have to be provided the PIN number by the government or the holder of the passport before they could use it

in the future passports will require the user to know their PIN so they could use it at passport control