The equation I was given by those I worked for as far as providing a quote for painting was to estimate the hours and material costs, multiply that by 3 and then double that. This equation was supported as the only method to guarantee that a profit is maintained. How accurately calculable is that as a quoting philosophy?
>The equation I was given by those I worked for as far as providing a quote for painting was to estimate the hours and material costs, multiply that by 3 and then double that. This equation was supported as the only method to guarantee that a profit is maintained. How accurately calculable is that as a quoting philosophy?
How much difficult stuff is there, how fussy are they, and how much prep, and are they using similar colours?
And can most of it be done with one coat?
transition said:
>The equation I was given by those I worked for as far as providing a quote for painting was to estimate the hours and material costs, multiply that by 3 and then double that. This equation was supported as the only method to guarantee that a profit is maintained. How accurately calculable is that as a quoting philosophy?How much difficult stuff is there, how fussy are they, and how much prep, and are they using similar colours?
I mean to ask whether that equation is broadly applicable as a quoting method. It is a fairly accurate rule of thum in painting because of the areas that might get missed in adding things up and where it might give you a big profit on one job that is probably only making up for the other job you messed the quote up on. I was basically wondering if this is a fairly standard approach to quoting or if this is the painters method.
Why not just multiply by 6…? It’s not rocket arithmetic…
OCDC said:
Why not just multiply by 6…? It’s not rocket arithmetic…
you don’t get contracts that way……
Riff-in-Thyme said:
OCDC said:
Why not just multiply by 6…? It’s not rocket arithmetic…
you don’t get contracts that way……
> was basically wondering if this is a fairly standard approach to quoting or if this is the painters method.
No, it’d be something short of being universal, riff.
transition said:
> was basically wondering if this is a fairly standard approach to quoting or if this is the painters method.No, it’d be something short of being universal, riff.
Yeah I realise, I was just wondering if a more universal calculation could be made. Probably not……
OCDC said:
Riff-in-Thyme said:
OCDC said:
Why not just multiply by 6…? It’s not rocket arithmetic…
you don’t get contracts that way……
Sorry, I wasn’t aware you’re already telling them your’re multiplying by 3 then doubling…
meh, not the worst misunderstanding I’ve run into….. ;)
If you’re a good painter, organized, quickish, don’t have disasters, do consistent coats, cut in neat, and the added bonus of the paint actually sticks to the surface for quite a long time, you’re worth $30+/hour. Guessing.
Riff-in-Thyme said:
OCDC said:
Riff-in-Thyme said:you don’t get contracts that way……
Sorry, I wasn’t aware you’re already telling them your’re multiplying by 3 then doubling…
meh, not the worst misunderstanding I’ve run into….. ;)
transition said:
If you’re a good painter, organized, quickish, don’t have disasters, do consistent coats, cut in neat, and the added bonus of the paint actually sticks to the surface for quite a long time, you’re worth $30+/hour. Guessing.
Painting is a nice part time job. I’m going into a more primary production area………
OCDC said:
Riff-in-Thyme said:
OCDC said:Sorry, I wasn’t aware you’re already telling them your’re multiplying by 3 then doubling…
meh, not the worst misunderstanding I’ve run into….. ;)
Please explain the difference between multiplying by 6, and multiplying by 3 then doubling.
err, not sure. I didn’t realise that was your direction. It is just how it was presented by those I asked. I don’t know where the reasoning for structuring it that way came from……
>err, not sure. I didn’t realise that was your direction. It is just how it was presented by those I asked
It’s just a bit of a joke, riff. People do it, you know, put in a quote for that government job, plucked a figure out of my arse, doubled it then some, and was the lowest quote.
Riff-in-Thyme said:
The equation I was given by those I worked for as far as providing a quote for painting was to estimate the hours and material costs, multiply that by 3 and then double that. This equation was supported as the only method to guarantee that a profit is maintained. How accurately calculable is that as a quoting philosophy?
I quote of time and materials jobs all the time…
to assist with transparency in the quoting process and to help people compare apples with apples I do the following
itemise the job as best you can and estimate the hours (including a slight contingency) to paint each bit as well as the amount of materials required (again itemised – paint, brushes, rollers, drop cloths etc…)
then multiply the hours by a standard chargout rate. This is where you can build in the margin. The chargeout rate should probably be the annual base wage plus on costs, divided by the number of chargable hours in a year. See the calculation below as en example
52 weeks per year (calendar time)
-4 weeks annual leave (non resourced time)
48 weeks per year (resourced time)
80% utilisation
38.4 weeks per year
40 hours per week
1,536 hours per year (chargeable)
$80,000 per year (required annual salary)
$52/hr (base charge out rate)
then add a multiplier to suit your situation. In my role I generally apply a 2.0 to a 2.5 time multiplier on the base rate to get the chargeout rate.
Riff-in-Thyme said:
The equation I was given by those I worked for as far as providing a quote for painting was to estimate the hours and material costs, multiply that by 3 and then double that. This equation was supported as the only method to guarantee that a profit is maintained. How accurately calculable is that as a quoting philosophy?
It sounds ridiculously simplistic. Obviously covering a lot more overheads than just paint and labour.
If you wanted to something more precise, you would need to take the time to do up a big spreadsheet of all your expenses averaged out over a year, and then match it up to the amount of hours invoiced and work out your overhead costs per hour. But that’s a lot of work and most people simply wouldn’t be arsed.
also I should mention that I think that the idea of estimating a time then doubling it then multiplying the answer by three is silly… the estimate needs to be transparent so people can clearly understand what it is they are getting them selves into and exactly where your costs lie. Your clients don’t want you to go bust either so the multiplier at the end is a good way of controlling that margin.
If I were you I’d be looking to cover my costs and make a 10% or 15% margin on the top. I think that’s fair in what is a very competitive market.
Riff-in-Thyme said:
I was basically wondering if this is a fairly standard approach to quoting or if this is the painters method.
No it’s not.
In commercial construction quotes are generally issued based on cost + 12%-20% mark-up.
Mark up is higher for industrial construction, but still no where near 600% or whatever it is that your painters are doing.
My guess is that the painters have either there labour costs or material costs vastly undervalued if they have to add that much on to their cost to make a profit.
Just for fun, I know one guy who does most of his quotations by weighing the construction drawings and multiplying by some number he has come up with to give him a dollar value. It’s not very accurate, but it sure is fast.
esselte said:
My guess is that the painters have either there labour costs or material costs vastly undervalued if they have to add that much on to their cost to make a profit.
On second thoughts, it’s probably their overheads that they are not factoring in correctly; rental of premises, upkeep of vehicles etc.
OCDC said:
Why not just multiply by 6…? It’s not rocket arithmetic…
Perhaps ironically, for the 3D printing I do I normally charge about six times the cost of the plastic. It sounds like a big mark-up but if I do a big job and have the machine running for most of the week I don’t make a lot at the end of it. Considering my time, etc.
The equation I was given by those I worked for as far as providing a quote for painting was to estimate the hours and material costs, multiply that by 3 and then double that.
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lol
That is redick… rediculas… just stupid.
What they are saying is they estimate your estimations to be out by 300% and they want a 50% profit margin.
I quote in a similar manner to diddly.
Make sure you are VERY specific about what is covered by the quote. Estimate the number of hours + cost of equipment (I throw that in at “cost price”, some people add ~10% to everything they buy or hire). An over-estimate in the time is better than an under-estimate! You can always invoice them for less.
Any extra work at $x/hr plus costs. Do a good job and they might ask you to do a bit more.
If you don’t know how long a job will take you can ask them for an hourly rate. If they trust you to work hard that can work out good for everyone :)
My advice: provide a detailed written quote, with date and how long it is valid for (4 months?). Ask for a signed service agreement or a purchase order number if it is a company if they want to proceed. Consider asking them to pay a deposit up front (to cover the paint or other out-of-pocket costs). Consider invoicing fortnightly or monthly if it is a big job. Google service agreements to find something that suits.
Good luck!
I give an quote, an honest one, after discussing clients need which range from minimal prep and one coat to max prep and 3 sometimes even 4 coats, but in the quote I include my hourly (and daily) rate , and a clause along the lines of ‘if it comes in less they win with a cost reduction, if it goes over I win with a top up’.
I do add the retail margin(what they would pay walking in off the street) on top of materials which I get at wholesale.
My hourly rate is $42.70. (350 a day).
>I give an quote, an honest one, after discussing clients need which range from minimal prep and one coat to max prep and 3 sometimes even 4 coats, but in the quote I include my hourly (and daily) rate , and a clause along the lines of ‘if it comes in less they win with a cost reduction, if it goes over I win with a top up’.
I do add the retail margin(what they would pay walking in off the street) on top of materials which I get at wholesale.
My hourly rate is $42.70. (350 a day).”
Gold star for most sensible a practical answer.