My electric alarm clock works fine on normal power, but with power blackouts (not infrequent) its operation is taken over by a 9-volt battery (as recommended). However when battery powered, the clock time increases by something like 20 mins over 6 hours. Why does this happen?
PermeateFree said:
My electric alarm clock works fine on normal power, but with power blackouts (not infrequent) its operation is taken over by a 9-volt battery (as recommended). However when battery powered, the clock time increases by something like 20 mins over 6 hours. Why does this happen?
Cheap clock with poor timekeeping abilities without a 50hz reference signal.
Carmen_Sandiego said:
PermeateFree said:
My electric alarm clock works fine on normal power, but with power blackouts (not infrequent) its operation is taken over by a 9-volt battery (as recommended). However when battery powered, the clock time increases by something like 20 mins over 6 hours. Why does this happen?
Cheap clock with poor timekeeping abilities without a 50hz reference signal.
New, but cheap clock. Guess I’ll just have to keep adjusting it.
http://www.marriedtothesea.com/062613/power-outage-clock.gif
captain_spalding said:
http://www.marriedtothesea.com/062613/power-outage-clock.gif
At least in my case, the time shift is forward and not back, so will get up a little earlier.
Carmen_Sandiego said:
Cheap clock with poor timekeeping abilities without a 50hz reference signal.
Why is the 50hz ref signal important? What does it do?
Divine Angel said:
Carmen_Sandiego said:Cheap clock with poor timekeeping abilities without a 50hz reference signal.
Why is the 50hz ref signal important? What does it do?
It is about the difference between mains electric and battery power. I’d be taking it back to the shop and telling them it doesn’t work properly.
What is the purpose of network time protocol?
roughbarked said:
Divine Angel said:
Carmen_Sandiego said:Cheap clock with poor timekeeping abilities without a 50hz reference signal.
Why is the 50hz ref signal important? What does it do?
It is about the difference between mains electric and battery power. I’d be taking it back to the shop and telling them it doesn’t work properly.
Bought it a few months back and have lost the receipt. Probably not the retailer but cheap Chinese gear. Nevertheless I can live with it.
Divine Angel said:
Carmen_Sandiego said:Cheap clock with poor timekeeping abilities without a 50hz reference signal.
Why is the 50hz ref signal important? What does it do?
It uses the 50Hz as a reference for the clock, as a timer so to speak. The 50 Hz is quite accurate over a 24 hour period. It may not be exactly 50Hz at any period during the day, but the supply authorities try to ensure that it averages out at exactly 50 Hz over a day.
I have a cheap little battery-powered Chinese alarm clock that has performed faultlessly for over a decade now.
Bubblecar said:
I have a cheap little battery-powered Chinese alarm clock that has performed faultlessly for over a decade now.
braggart.
Bubblecar said:
I have a cheap little battery-powered Chinese alarm clock that has performed faultlessly for over a decade now.
Yep. That’s what they are designed to do. All clocks are.
roughbarked said:
Bubblecar said:
I have a cheap little battery-powered Chinese alarm clock that has performed faultlessly for over a decade now.
Yep. That’s what they are designed to do. All clocks are.
I suppose that a clock manufactured exclusively for battery use would work as required with that type of power. These later cheapies are manufactured for mains power with the battery only for backup, which seems to generate the problem.
PermeateFree said:
roughbarked said:
Bubblecar said:
I have a cheap little battery-powered Chinese alarm clock that has performed faultlessly for over a decade now.
Yep. That’s what they are designed to do. All clocks are.
I suppose that a clock manufactured exclusively for battery use would work as required with that type of power. These later cheapies are manufactured for mains power with the battery only for backup, which seems to generate the problem.
Yeah. Can you tell me the brand and model?
The battery in mine rarely needs changing. Maybe once every couple years or so. A single AAA.
Bubblecar said:
The battery in mine rarely needs changing. Maybe once every couple years or so. A single AAA.
Yes but yours is a simple quartz stepping motor(if it is analog) These use very small amounts of power.
Bubblecar said:
I have a cheap little battery-powered Chinese alarm clock that has performed faultlessly for over a decade now.
>>However when battery powered, the clock time increases by something like 20 mins over 6 hours.
I have noticed that with a number of clocks.
Sometimes they are only jump a couple of minutes but with a battery that has been in the clock for only a month or two they leap 10 to 20 minutes forward.
It’s digital. Certainly not an attractive décor item but a reliable little alarm clock.
Bubblecar said:
The battery in mine rarely needs changing. Maybe once every couple years or so. A single AAA.
I have a pair of earphones with a cordless radio in one earpiece that works off a single AAA battery too. Quite surprising how long they keep going.
morrie said:
Bubblecar said:
I have a cheap little battery-powered Chinese alarm clock that has performed faultlessly for over a decade now.
I had one that worked faultlessly for a few years then stopped, dead, never to go again. I had to throw it out. And I have two large diameter analogue battery powered ones, neither of which keeps very good time. I often find myself having to adjust them by 10 minutes or so.
Clock movements may be cased up by anyone who wants to print their name on the dial. Doesn’t mean they always think about the extra weight of extra long hands.
Glance Fleeting said:
What is the purpose of network time protocol?
Network Time Protocol (NTP) is a networking protocol for clock synchronization between computer systems over packet-switched, variable-latency data networks..
NTP is intended to synchronize all participating computers to within a few milliseconds of Coordinated Universal Time (UTC).
says wiki
Why does Microsoft reference its system time to 1 January 1601?
roughbarked said:
PermeateFree said:
roughbarked said:Yep. That’s what they are designed to do. All clocks are.
I suppose that a clock manufactured exclusively for battery use would work as required with that type of power. These later cheapies are manufactured for mains power with the battery only for backup, which seems to generate the problem.
Yeah. Can you tell me the brand and model?
Unfortunately no, as there is no brand name on the clock and the box has been tossed out long ago. Just a cheap slimline one from Woollies with a radio, which I don’t use.
Year 1601 (MDCI) was a common year starting on Monday (link will display the full calendar) of the Gregorian calendar and a common year starting on Thursday of the 10-day slower Julian calendar. January 1 of this year (1601-01-01) is used as the base of file dates and of Active Directory Logon dates by Microsoft Windows. It is also the date from which ANSI dates are counted and were adopted by the American National Standards Institute for use with COBOL and other computer languages. This epoch is the beginning of the 400-year Gregorian leap-year cycle within which digital files first existed; the last year of any such cycle is the only leap year whose year number is divisible by 100. All versions of the Microsoft Windows operating system from Windows 95 onward count units of one hundred nanoseconds from this epoch.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1601
Bubblecar said:
It’s digital. Certainly not an attractive décor item but a reliable little alarm clock.
Why do you think I’m out in the rain and the mud and the 40 degrees dust?
because cheap electric clocks are reliably accurate enough for the average person and only need a new battery every couple of years unless you want it to leak in the clock.Ian said:
Glance Fleeting said:What is the purpose of network time protocol?
Network Time Protocol (NTP) is a networking protocol for clock synchronization between computer systems over packet-switched, variable-latency data networks..
NTP is intended to synchronize all participating computers to within a few milliseconds of Coordinated Universal Time (UTC).says wiki
Yes. What this is for is resetting your clock to the correct time after power outages.
Bubblecar said:
It’s digital. Certainly not an attractive décor item but a reliable little alarm clock.
Hang on to it long enough and it will be cool again. I cannot believe that formica tables with spindly legs have value.
Bubblecar said:
Year 1601 (MDCI) was a common year starting on Monday (link will display the full calendar) of the Gregorian calendar and a common year starting on Thursday of the 10-day slower Julian calendar. January 1 of this year (1601-01-01) is used as the base of file dates and of Active Directory Logon dates by Microsoft Windows. It is also the date from which ANSI dates are counted and were adopted by the American National Standards Institute for use with COBOL and other computer languages. This epoch is the beginning of the 400-year Gregorian leap-year cycle within which digital files first existed; the last year of any such cycle is the only leap year whose year number is divisible by 100. All versions of the Microsoft Windows operating system from Windows 95 onward count units of one hundred nanoseconds from this epoch.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1601
Aha.
S’pose its useful for time-travelers too.
Skunkworks said:
Bubblecar said:
It’s digital. Certainly not an attractive décor item but a reliable little alarm clock.
Hang on to it long enough and it will be cool again. I cannot believe that formica tables with spindly legs have value.
morrie said:
Skunkworks said:
Bubblecar said:
It’s digital. Certainly not an attractive décor item but a reliable little alarm clock.
Hang on to it long enough and it will be cool again. I cannot believe that formica tables with spindly legs have value.
If you have one I will swap you 4 pieces of rusty corrugated iron for it.
Nahhh, I got rusty corrugated iron already. Serial, the roof from the old chook shed is in the shed waiting for a use and a happy home to spiders.
Ian said:
Why does Microsoft reference its system time to 1 January 1601?
Y2K syndrome.
Skunkworks said:
Bubblecar said:
It’s digital. Certainly not an attractive décor item but a reliable little alarm clock.
Hang on to it long enough and it will be cool again. I cannot believe that formica tables with spindly legs have value.
In non rodent proofed houses, people put all their food on such tables because rodents cannot climb the legs. Serious, all the cupboards are empty of anything rodents may eat.
Ian said:
>>However when battery powered, the clock time increases by something like 20 mins over 6 hours.I have noticed that with a number of clocks.
Sometimes they are only jump a couple of minutes but with a battery that has been in the clock for only a month or two they leap 10 to 20 minutes forward.
Are you referring to clocks solely driven by batteries or clocks that only use the battery for backup?
roughbarked said:
Bubblecar said:
It’s digital. Certainly not an attractive décor item but a reliable little alarm clock.
Why do you think I’m out in the rain and the mud and the 40 degrees dust?
because cheap electric clocks are reliably accurate enough for the average person and only need a new battery every couple of years unless you want it to leak in the clock.
www.clocksdirect.com.au/
Buy Electric Alarm Clocks From $6! With Guarantee & Customer Support
Skunkworks said:
Nahhh, I got rusty corrugated iron already. Serial, the roof from the old chook shed is in the shed waiting for a use and a happy home to spiders.
I’ve got a heap like that one.. its 3rd (possible 4th) hand.. came off the old house..
And the red-backs luurve it.
roughbarked said:
roughbarked said:
Bubblecar said:
It’s digital. Certainly not an attractive décor item but a reliable little alarm clock.
Why do you think I’m out in the rain and the mud and the 40 degrees dust?
because cheap electric clocks are reliably accurate enough for the average person and only need a new battery every couple of years unless you want it to leak in the clock.www.clocksdirect.com.au/
Buy Electric Alarm Clocks From $6! With Guarantee & Customer Support
Except for the fact that the customer support is provided by a pimply faced youth that has minimal training in either.
roughbarked said:
Ian said:
>>However when battery powered, the clock time increases by something like 20 mins over 6 hours.I have noticed that with a number of clocks.
Sometimes they are only jump a couple of minutes but with a battery that has been in the clock for only a month or two they leap 10 to 20 minutes forward.
Are you referring to clocks solely driven by batteries or clocks that only use the battery for backup?
backup
Ian said:
roughbarked said:
Ian said:
>>However when battery powered, the clock time increases by something like 20 mins over 6 hours.I have noticed that with a number of clocks.
Sometimes they are only jump a couple of minutes but with a battery that has been in the clock for only a month or two they leap 10 to 20 minutes forward.
Are you referring to clocks solely driven by batteries or clocks that only use the battery for backup?
backup
The problem has been explained. This is why the internet protocol or radio clocks are used to correct the time after power outages.
roughbarked said:
roughbarked said:
roughbarked said:Why do you think I’m out in the rain and the mud and the 40 degrees dust?
because cheap electric clocks are reliably accurate enough for the average person and only need a new battery every couple of years unless you want it to leak in the clock.www.clocksdirect.com.au/
Buy Electric Alarm Clocks From $6! With Guarantee & Customer Support
Except for the fact that the customer support is provided by a pimply faced youth that has minimal training in either.
more profit over product practice. well all I can say is that I bought bugsy’s chrissy presents from fisher price……
3SwordBunny said:
roughbarked said:
roughbarked said:www.clocksdirect.com.au/
Buy Electric Alarm Clocks From $6! With Guarantee & Customer Support
Except for the fact that the customer support is provided by a pimply faced youth that has minimal training in either.
more profit over product practice. well all I can say is that I bought bugsy’s chrissy presents from fisher price……
Ask any watchmaker if they enjoy having to reset digital clocks. It boggles the mind that digital is so popular when analog is so much more easily reset. I do have one watch that can reset the digits in both directions but the mechanism is so finicky that it is a nightmare to adjust correctly.
>>radio clocks are used to correct the time after power outages.
When you hear a time call and make the adjustment?roughbarked said:
3SwordBunny said:
roughbarked said:Except for the fact that the customer support is provided by a pimply faced youth that has minimal training in either.
more profit over product practice. well all I can say is that I bought bugsy’s chrissy presents from fisher price……
Ask any watchmaker if they enjoy having to reset digital clocks. It boggles the mind that digital is so popular when analog is so much more easily reset. I do have one watch that can reset the digits in both directions but the mechanism is so finicky that it is a nightmare to adjust correctly.
customers want a product of complexity that doesn’t challenge them. if watchmakers only customers were other watchmakers we would all be very happy with the result. ;)
roughbarked said:
3SwordBunny said:
roughbarked said:Except for the fact that the customer support is provided by a pimply faced youth that has minimal training in either.
more profit over product practice. well all I can say is that I bought bugsy’s chrissy presents from fisher price……
Ask any watchmaker if they enjoy having to reset digital clocks. It boggles the mind that digital is so popular when analog is so much more easily reset. I do have one watch that can reset the digits in both directions but the mechanism is so finicky that it is a nightmare to adjust correctly.
I prefer digital because I cannot hear the ticking, which with analogue I seem to tune into it and it drives me nuts until I remove it from the room. Must have got used to the sound before digital or accepted it as an unavoidable by-product of getting up on time.
Ian said:
>>radio clocks are used to correct the time after power outages. When you hear a time call and make the adjustment?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_clock
PermeateFree said:
roughbarked said:
3SwordBunny said:more profit over product practice. well all I can say is that I bought bugsy’s chrissy presents from fisher price……
Ask any watchmaker if they enjoy having to reset digital clocks. It boggles the mind that digital is so popular when analog is so much more easily reset. I do have one watch that can reset the digits in both directions but the mechanism is so finicky that it is a nightmare to adjust correctly.
I prefer digital because I cannot hear the ticking, which with analogue I seem to tune into it and it drives me nuts until I remove it from the room. Must have got used to the sound before digital or accepted it as an unavoidable by-product of getting up on time.
There’s a huge difference between a dripping tap and a finely tuned escapement. this is also the difference between a quartz stepping motor and an oscillating balance.
It used to be called Chinese water torture while a ticking mechanical clock can resemble a heartbeat.
I have a fondness for those early electric clocks where the painted half-digit panels would flop over.
Ian said:
I have a fondness for those early electric clocks where the painted half-digit panels would flop over.
I’ve got a few laying about. Their problem was that the electric motor hums. This gets worse with age.
roughbarked said:
Ian said:
I have a fondness for those early electric clocks where the painted half-digit panels would flop over.
I’ve got a few laying about. Their problem was that the electric motor hums. This gets worse with age.
hhmmmmmmm
:)
Ian said:
roughbarked said:
Ian said:
I have a fondness for those early electric clocks where the painted half-digit panels would flop over.
I’ve got a few laying about. Their problem was that the electric motor hums. This gets worse with age.
hhmmmmmmm
:)
If you have the right punches and anvils, you can make washers from the plastic packaging that abounds, in order to work around bearing wear. However electronic components can also set up a discordant humm and the bloody buzzing alarm was a real brain boiler.
roughbarked said:
Ian said:
I have a fondness for those early electric clocks where the painted half-digit panels would flop over.
I’ve got a few laying about. Their problem was that the electric motor hums. This gets worse with age.
As an aside, I am looking for a large illuminated digital or smooth analogue display to put in the frame for some high speed (200 fps) video. It would need to display units of 0.01 second. I have looked but can’t find anything suitable yet. Any suggestions would be welcome.
morrie said:
And the digits make a noise when they flip over. Real Chinese water torture stuff. I am a fan of silent digital clocks for the bedroom.
Then your clock was really silent if you could hear the digits flip and to boot, you were listening to the clock rather than releasing your mind.
roughbarked said:
morrie said:And the digits make a noise when they flip over. Real Chinese water torture stuff. I am a fan of silent digital clocks for the bedroom.
Then your clock was really silent if you could hear the digits flip and to boot, you were listening to the clock rather than releasing your mind.
morrie said:
roughbarked said:
morrie said:And the digits make a noise when they flip over. Real Chinese water torture stuff. I am a fan of silent digital clocks for the bedroom.
Then your clock was really silent if you could hear the digits flip and to boot, you were listening to the clock rather than releasing your mind.
says the man who never sleeps ;)
:) you have me there.
cheap clocks use the mains 50HZ as reference then divide/multiply to get 60HZ, whereas more expensive units (with battery backup) use crystal or resonator or something as the timebase and divide/multiply from that gets you 60HZ.
the meal descriptions here tend to stimulate some envy from me. It is rb’s clear open skies that actually up that envy to resentment. not of rb. mostly of not being able to fly so I can visit the more desolate places in the world whenever I need some real peace and quiet….
PermeateFree said:
Carmen_Sandiego said:
PermeateFree said:
My electric alarm clock works fine on normal power, but with power blackouts (not infrequent) its operation is taken over by a 9-volt battery (as recommended). However when battery powered, the clock time increases by something like 20 mins over 6 hours. Why does this happen?
Cheap clock with poor timekeeping abilities without a 50hz reference signal.
New, but cheap clock. Guess I’ll just have to keep adjusting it.
Or, you know, splash out and buy one that is not shit.
dv said:
PermeateFree said:
Carmen_Sandiego said:Cheap clock with poor timekeeping abilities without a 50hz reference signal.
New, but cheap clock. Guess I’ll just have to keep adjusting it.
Or, you know, splash out and buy one that is not shit.
All made in China these days and most are cheap unless you pay for a fancy case. Plus what I have already said “I can live with it.’
I’ve never heard of a timepiece that bad since the invention of crystal timing. I would not expect a one-dollar watch to lose more than a minute in a year. What you have is just plain faulty.
dv said:
I’ve never heard of a timepiece that bad since the invention of crystal timing. I would not expect a one-dollar watch to lose more than a minute in a year. What you have is just plain faulty.
Suggest you read the thread, you will undoubtedly learn something.
PermeateFree said:
dv said:
I’ve never heard of a timepiece that bad since the invention of crystal timing. I would not expect a one-dollar watch to lose more than a minute in a year. What you have is just plain faulty.
Suggest you read the thread, you will undoubtedly learn something.
Not only this thread. Though it is a shame that much of what has been said on the topic has been lost, there have been many threads over the various offshoot forums that have discussed the timekeeping capacities of the various timekeepers. In the instance of this thread it is no different to the ability to compensate for the supply of power from a mainspring. That is solely what this thread is about. stability of power supply. It isn’t actually about how that power supply is regulated into timekeeping.
Something about quartz resonators.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quartz_clock. Though.. this part, can be found under electric clocks
• Inexpensive quartz movements are often specified to keep time within 30 seconds per month (1 second per day, 6 minutes per year). Lower error can be achieved by individual calibration if adjustment is possible, subject to the stability of the oscillator, particularly with change in temperature. Higher accuracy is possible at higher cost.
If one didn’t read the electric clocks link above then here is an extract.