What does it cost per year for an Australian public hospital to keep a braindead patient alive, roughly?

It’s probably not much cheaper than keeping them alive, gently.

Possibly less than keeping the walking talking briandead alive, though in terms of productivity I suppose most walking braindead may come near break-even or better given the right sort of employment etc.

dv said:

What does it cost per year for an Australian public hospital to keep a braindead patient alive, roughly?

I reckon it would be a minimum of a 1000 dollars a day, working on that minimal care patients are charged at about 350 bucks a days How those costs are derived I do not know, I don’t imagine that would be a full cost. At full cost recovery you could double it.

Ariel Sharon is still lingering I believe.

Here’s a quote from US (Washington Post). Don’t know if Oz would be any cheaper:

Keeping a patient on life support in an intensive care unit bed costs, at a minimum, $2,000-$4,000 per day and can run much higher depending on the patient’s condition, into hundreds of thousands a year.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/jahi-mcmath-could-be-removed-from-life-support-despite-familys-wishes/2013/12/30/41f122f4-7191-11e3-8def-a33011492df2_story.html

Hooly Dooly.

>Keeping a patient on life support in an intensive care unit bed costs, at a minimum, $2,000-$4,000 per day and can run much higher depending on the patient’s condition, into hundreds of thousands a year.

Dead people are fucken inconvenient when not properly dead, aren’t they car.

How does it compare to keeping long term prisoners in jail?

>Keeping a patient on life support in an intensive care unit bed costs, at a minimum, $2,000-$4,000 per day and can run much higher depending on the patient’s condition, into hundreds of thousands a year.

That sentence sounds a bit odd given that 4000 a day is already 1,460,000 a year.

dv said:

What does it cost per year for an Australian public hospital to keep a braindead patient alive, roughly?

you mean the ones that show up at EDs on friday nights?

dv said:

Hooly Dooly.

From what I’ve heard about USA hospital prices I expect Oz would be about half of that.

dv said:

What does it cost per year for an Australian public hospital to keep a braindead patient alive, roughly?

What if you want to keep them in comfort, instead of roughly?

oops i seen that’s already been done..

curse you fibre to the stomach!

sibeen said:

dv said:

Hooly Dooly.

From what I’ve heard about USA hospital prices I expect Oz would be about half of that.

Note that I am asking about the actual costs to the hospital, not the billing.

dv said:

Note that I am asking about the actual costs to the hospital, not the billing.

Which is why I said I don’t think the costs reflect full cost recovery.

Skunkworks said:

dv said:

What does it cost per year for an Australian public hospital to keep a braindead patient alive, roughly?

I reckon it would be a minimum of a 1000 dollars a day, working on that minimal care patients are charged at about 350 bucks a days How those costs are derived I do not know, I don’t imagine that would be a full cost. At full cost recovery you could double it.

Ariel Sharon is still lingering I believe.

they are probably trying to keep him going until they can come up with a way of reviving him

what will be funny is if he wakes up and has changed his mind about everything that he once stood for.

wookiemeister said:

Skunkworks said:

dv said:

What does it cost per year for an Australian public hospital to keep a braindead patient alive, roughly?

I reckon it would be a minimum of a 1000 dollars a day, working on that minimal care patients are charged at about 350 bucks a days How those costs are derived I do not know, I don’t imagine that would be a full cost. At full cost recovery you could double it.

Ariel Sharon is still lingering I believe.

they are probably trying to keep him going until they can come up with a way of reviving him

what will be funny is if he wakes up and has changed his mind about everything that he once stood for.

Prolly paid his health insurance until 2014 & wants to get his money’s worth.

Tamb said:

How does it compare to keeping long term prisoners in jail?

its why they normally let them out even after committing horrific crimes – its too darned expensive keeping them inside, if they kill again it doesn’t matter to the government.

I wonder how long they would keep someone inside if they had a penchant for killing judges, lawyers etc

wookiemeister said:

what will be funny is if he wakes up and has changed his mind about everything that he once stood for.

He had changed politically a bit in the years before his coma. More accommodating of the Palestinians etc.

Tamb said:

wookiemeister said:

Skunkworks said:

I reckon it would be a minimum of a 1000 dollars a day, working on that minimal care patients are charged at about 350 bucks a days How those costs are derived I do not know, I don’t imagine that would be a full cost. At full cost recovery you could double it.

Ariel Sharon is still lingering I believe.

they are probably trying to keep him going until they can come up with a way of reviving him

what will be funny is if he wakes up and has changed his mind about everything that he once stood for.

Prolly paid his health insurance until 2014 & wants to get his money’s worth.

its a political statement

they might have a go injecting him with stem cells or something, maybe he’ll wake up as a cyborg in a few years time and Israel won’t exist. after the collapse of Israel the government loaded him into an ark and took him via a submarine to a former underground nazi base at the south pole. waking up he discovers the unthinkable.

Witty Rejoinder said:

wookiemeister said:

what will be funny is if he wakes up and has changed his mind about everything that he once stood for.

He had changed politically a bit in the years before his coma. More accommodating of the Palestinians etc.

anyone who goes against the torah is to be killed

rabin found that one out

People on death row are the ones who kill cops, judges and innocent children.

FWIW it costs a lot to have people on death row, but those costs come from the appeals processes rather than the cost of keeping them.

IIRC it’s about USD $1 mil/yr to keep a death row person in prison.

Got to remember to wookielock my threads

Witty Rejoinder said:

wookiemeister said:

what will be funny is if he wakes up and has changed his mind about everything that he once stood for.

He had changed politically a bit in the years before his coma. More accommodating of the Palestinians etc.

What if he woke up and had the answer

Divine Angel said:

FWIW it costs a lot to have people on death row, but those costs come from the appeals processes rather than the cost of keeping them.

Victoria’s longest serving prisoner was jailed in the late 60s for the murders of a young woman & a child. AFAIK he is still inside.

Tamb said:

Divine Angel said:

FWIW it costs a lot to have people on death row, but those costs come from the appeals processes rather than the cost of keeping them.

Victoria’s longest serving prisoner was jailed in the late 60s for the murders of a young woman & a child. AFAIK he is still inside.

Brain dead too

Who’s had the longest imprisonment in Australia?

Tamb said:

Victoria’s longest serving prisoner was jailed in the late 60s for the murders of a young woman & a child. AFAIK he is still inside.

He died earlier this year.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-24/child-killer-derek-percy-dies—in-hospital/4839604

CrazyNeutrino said:

Tamb said:

Divine Angel said:

FWIW it costs a lot to have people on death row, but those costs come from the appeals processes rather than the cost of keeping them.

Victoria’s longest serving prisoner was jailed in the late 60s for the murders of a young woman & a child. AFAIK he is still inside.

Brain dead too

By now I expect so. Sadly he was quite smart & a talented artist but wild & crazy.

Witty Rejoinder said:

Tamb said:

Victoria’s longest serving prisoner was jailed in the late 60s for the murders of a young woman & a child. AFAIK he is still inside.

He died earlier this year.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-24/child-killer-derek-percy-dies—in-hospital/4839604

Different bloke. The one I was referring to is Keith Ryrie.

A quick search says the cost of keeping a non-death row inmate imprisoned is from USD $22k-$35k

CrazyNeutrino said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

wookiemeister said:

what will be funny is if he wakes up and has changed his mind about everything that he once stood for.

He had changed politically a bit in the years before his coma. More accommodating of the Palestinians etc.

What if he woke up and had the answer

err didn’t jesus have the same answer? look what happened to him

dv said:

What does it cost per year for an Australian public hospital to keep a braindead patient alive, roughly?

Well it is the cost of their Parliamentary Superannuation that’s the big expense.

Would it be cheaper to send them to India to be kept alive there?

Soso said:

Would it be cheaper to send them to India to be kept alive there?

Probably wouldn’t survive long.

I had a conversation with an Indian chap today. It was to do with my Optus email, having a few problems so rang their support.
He said he’d ring back at 3pm, he’s an hour and a half late.
And you know what? I don’t think he’s going to ring.

Soso said:

Would it be cheaper to send them to India to be kept alive there?

we could even swap those needing the treatment with indians

Wow, tough :(
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-12-31/brain-dead-girl-ordered-to-be-kept-on-ventilator/5180286

Bubblecar said:

Here’s a quote from US (Washington Post). Don’t know if Oz would be any cheaper:

Keeping a patient on life support in an intensive care unit bed costs, at a minimum, $2,000-$4,000 per day and can run much higher depending on the patient’s condition, into hundreds of thousands a year.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/jahi-mcmath-could-be-removed-from-life-support-despite-familys-wishes/2013/12/30/41f122f4-7191-11e3-8def-a33011492df2_story.html

How much would it cost on a DIY basis, outside of a hospital? What would be required?

mollwollfumble said:

Bubblecar said:

Here’s a quote from US (Washington Post). Don’t know if Oz would be any cheaper:

Keeping a patient on life support in an intensive care unit bed costs, at a minimum, $2,000-$4,000 per day and can run much higher depending on the patient’s condition, into hundreds of thousands a year.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/jahi-mcmath-could-be-removed-from-life-support-despite-familys-wishes/2013/12/30/41f122f4-7191-11e3-8def-a33011492df2_story.html

How much would it cost on a DIY basis, outside of a hospital? What would be required?

Apart from the technical issues, it can be a problem to have a single carer looking after someone who might die. But, allowing just a single carer per shift, you could figure on perhaps $250k pa

mollwollfumble said:

Bubblecar said:

Here’s a quote from US (Washington Post). Don’t know if Oz would be any cheaper:

Keeping a patient on life support in an intensive care unit bed costs, at a minimum, $2,000-$4,000 per day and can run much higher depending on the patient’s condition, into hundreds of thousands a year.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/jahi-mcmath-could-be-removed-from-life-support-despite-familys-wishes/2013/12/30/41f122f4-7191-11e3-8def-a33011492df2_story.html

How much would it cost on a DIY basis, outside of a hospital? What would be required?

Might be hard for the brain dead to do it themselves

In Australia, in 2005 a normal ward bed cost ~$0.012 s ^-1 and ICU an average of $0.036. That didn’t differentiate between ventilated and non-ventilated, so I’d say probably $0.042-0.048 for the former. 8 years ago.

I don’t know the SI units for money…

> How much would it cost on a DIY basis, outside of a hospital? What would be required?

>Single carer.
That’s included in the DIY. Round-the-clock observations would not be required. Care would only require handling occasional rare alarms at all hours, and changing of saline bags, sheets etc. at pre-defined times.

> Might be hard for the brain dead to do it themselves
It might even be possible to set it up so that the braindead could survive for a week without any human intervention. OK, I don’t really mean that, human intervention is easier than automatic thermal control and cheaper than automatic bed-turning.

> What would be required?

Naso-gastric tube – with automatic food supply
Ventilator and facemask, possibly tracheal tube
Pacemaker or external heart, possibly ECMO
Non-invasive monitoring of blood oxygen and body temperature
Electroencephalograph and oscilloscope
Catheter for medication and fluids, automatic control
Heater and cooler for body temperature control
Catheter and pump for dialysis
Waterbed (or similar) for relieving pressure
Enemas

All that would cost a lot to hire and even more to buy, but what if much of the equipment was made DIY? Ventilator, monitoring of blood oxygen and body temperature, electroencephalograph and oscilloscope, heater and cooler for body temperature control, waterbed and enemas could all be made DIY. Automatic medication, fluid and food dispensing units could be made DIY. Food and fluids could be made DIY.

After up-front costs for pacemaker, catheters, dialysis, costs would be minimal. Care would only involve changing sheets, emptying waste receptacles, checking for and treating bedsores, supplying food, fluids and medication, answering alarms – again DIY. That only leaves electricity, food and medication as ongoing costs. Food costs are less than for the average person, electricity costs can be made small. Medication may include propofol, which costs $7/day.

So really, keeping a braindead patient alive using DIY equipment and care (and discounting the capital cost of dialysis and other sterile equipment) should only cost about $150/week.

Rather than “braindead” my list above more correctly applies to “comatose”. If I understand correctly, a braindead person would have no peristaltic action in the intestine so a nasogastic tube and an enema would be useless. Feeding would be by intravenous drip.

OCDC said:

In Australia, in 2005 a normal ward bed cost ~$0.012 s ^-1 and ICU an average of $0.036. That didn’t differentiate between ventilated and non-ventilated, so I’d say probably $0.042-0.048 for the former. 8 years ago.

I don’t know the SI units for money…

For contrast, what is the median cost of living for the well?

For contrast, what is the median cost of living for the well?

I’d say the age pension which is about $800/fortnight as a minimum.

>For contrast, what is the median cost of living for the well?

Minus productive output, or inclusive of. I guess the point of the thread is that the braindead don’t earn their way.

A more interesting topic IMO is at what point does a apparently braindead human become no longer an ‘entity’ as the state would define it.

transition said:

>For contrast, what is the median cost of living for the well?

Minus productive output, or inclusive of. I guess the point of the thread is that the braindead don’t earn their way.

A more interesting topic IMO is at what point does a apparently braindead human become no longer an ‘entity’ as the state would define it.

In the case of Jahi, the hospital (according to state laws) already defines her as deceased.

transition said:

>For contrast, what is the median cost of living for the well?

Minus productive output, or inclusive of. I guess the point of the thread is that the braindead don’t earn their way.

A more interesting topic IMO is at what point does a apparently braindead human become no longer an ‘entity’ as the state would define it.

Why would you want to keep a zombie ?alive?

Dr. Dell
Fell down the well
And broke his collar bone
Doctors should attend the sick
And leave the well alone.

a hospital bed in a Tassie hospital costs $1000 whether you’re brain dead or have a broken arm…

stumpy_seahorse said:

a hospital bed in a Tassie hospital costs $1000 whether you’re brain dead or have a broken arm…

That’s per day.

> a hospital bed in a Tassie hospital costs $1000 whether you’re brain dead or have a broken arm…

A mattress on the floor costs less.

mollwollfumble said:

> a hospital bed in a Tassie hospital costs $1000 whether you’re brain dead or have a broken arm…

A mattress on the floor costs less.

OH&S problems with bending and kneeling for nurses.

IIRC it’s about USD $1 mil/yr to keep a death row person in prison.
—————————————————————————-

Fortunately with the improvements in DNA evidence over the years they have saved a shit load…

By letting some of the the innocent free.