Tony Abbott’s Closed book approach really reflects the conservative closed mind approach doesn’t it?

Tony Abbott happy to be ‘closed book’ on border operations as Labor demands details on asylum boat turn-backs

No… and there’s a chat thread, use it.

Dropbear said:

No… and there’s a chat thread, use it.

How would the sum total of human contentment be increased if this thread had been posted in chat?

The Rev Dodgson said:

Dropbear said:

No… and there’s a chat thread, use it.

How would the sum total of human contentment be increased if this thread had been posted in chat?

I wouldnt have to look at it any more than once..

Nauru media visa fee hike to ‘cover up harsh conditions at Australian tax-payer funded detention centre’
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-01-09/nauru-visa-fee-increase-censorship/5191108

But being in its own thread, you now know to avoid it. Unless you’re Abbott lover ;)

Dropbear said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Dropbear said:

No… and there’s a chat thread, use it.

How would the sum total of human contentment be increased if this thread had been posted in chat?

I wouldnt have to look at it any more than once..

Surely the opposite is true though. If it’s in chat you have to read every post on the subject, if you want to keep up with chat. If it’s in a clearly labelled thread you don’t even have to read it once, in fact I can’t see why you did read it, let alone reply to it.

Dropbear said:

No… and there’s a chat thread, use it.

why no?

I would like the conversation to be in this thread not in chat, so I can see the comments here

The Rev Dodgson said:

Dropbear said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

How would the sum total of human contentment be increased if this thread had been posted in chat?

I wouldnt have to look at it any more than once..

Surely the opposite is true though.

No.

Fuck the open book thing, it’s a con. I don’t get why everything has to be so fucking explicitly presented anyway, like nobody has any imagination at all.

Dropbear said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Dropbear said:

I wouldnt have to look at it any more than once..

Surely the opposite is true though.

No.

You really think you are so superior that you shouldn’t even have to look at the headings for a few posts that don’t interest you?

I dont trust closed minds

and I dont trust the closed book approach

“Labor yesterday accused the Government of running a “Stalinist” and “North Korean”-style media blackout after refusing to comment on reports Australia will buy 16 lifeboats to ferry asylum seekers back to Indonesia”

Send’em back I reckon, let Tony do it, Labor (and the media previous) just want every little thing they can put out there and scrap over to carve out their little bit of influence.

Tony’s got the top job presently, so we’ll see how he goes.

we have this democracy museum here in Ballarat

wonder if I should go there and inquire if a bill of rights is more democratic than hiding a few rights in a fragmented constitution

transition said:

“Labor yesterday accused the Government of running a “Stalinist” and “North Korean”-style media blackout after refusing to comment on reports Australia will buy 16 lifeboats to ferry asylum seekers back to Indonesia”

Send’em back I reckon, let Tony do it, Labor (and the media previous) just want every little thing they can put out there and scrap over to carve out their little bit of influence.

Tony’s got the top job presently, so we’ll see how he goes.

His not going to well I think

at this rate they will lose the next election

>I dont trust closed minds
and I dont trust the closed book approach

Not even close to the same thing I’m sure you appreciate.

I wouldn’t be too taken in by the transparency overkill.

What puzzles me. is why the smugglers don’t load up the lifeboat with new boat people and send it back to Australia, which with a more reliable boat is more likely to succeed? One way of getting your boat back I suppose.

“they cannot comment on operational matters”

BS

Its not a war

and those detention camps, where ever the government wants to put them, are still NAZI camps

and $8000 to get a visa, financing discrimination!

I want to throw the Lib Government into those NAZI camps, thats where Tony and NAZI thugs belong

I’m not happy

Tony Abbott is from Sydney.

CrazyNeutrino said:

I want to throw the Government stooges into those NAZI camps, thats where those thugs belong

Fixed.
ALP/LNP/Greens …. all the same crap under a different name.
We deserve better.

Spiny Norman said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

I want to throw the Government stooges into those NAZI camps, thats where those thugs belong

Fixed.
ALP/LNP/Greens …. all the same crap under a different name.
We deserve better.

Where would we find this better class of person?

Spiny Norman said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

I want to throw the Government stooges into those NAZI camps, thats where those thugs belong

Fixed.
ALP/LNP/Greens …. all the same crap under a different name.
We deserve better.

. Yeah, but can we afford the Nazis?

Spiny Norman said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

I want to throw the Government stooges into those NAZI camps, thats where those thugs belong

Fixed.
ALP/LNP/Greens …. all the same crap under a different name.
We deserve better.

We’ve always got KAP.

CrazyNeutrino said:

“they cannot comment on operational matters”

BS

Its not a war

and those detention camps, where ever the government wants to put them, are still NAZI camps

and $8000 to get a visa, financing discrimination!

I want to throw the Lib Government into those NAZI camps, thats where Tony and NAZI thugs belong

Lets see, Mandatory Detention is a Labor policy legislated by Keating, excising the mainland was Labor, no more English language or vocational training is Labor policy, not allowed to work anymore, is Labor policy, no dole, or in exceptional cases a reduced dole only, is Labor, no advantage policy is Labor, and resettlement in PNG is Labor policy.

Witty Rejoinder said:

Spiny Norman said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

I want to throw the Government stooges into those NAZI camps, thats where those thugs belong

Fixed.
ALP/LNP/Greens …. all the same crap under a different name.
We deserve better.

Where would we find this better class of person?

Nowhere near a capital city.

Witty Rejoinder said:

Spiny Norman said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

I want to throw the Government stooges into those NAZI camps, thats where those thugs belong

Fixed.
ALP/LNP/Greens …. all the same crap under a different name.
We deserve better.

Where would we find this better class of person?

I’m not sure but the best thing to do for now is really support the true independents to take power from the main parties.
Have a read of the book, “Give us back our country”, it’s a frightening read as to how crappy things have become in the last couple of decades. I’m extremely worried how the country will be in years to come if this insanity continues.

Nazi. Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi. Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi. Nazi.

furious said:

Nazi. Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi. Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi. Nazi.

Wasn’t there a word for the process where topics would eventually revert to posting Nazi?

• Wasn’t there a word for the process where topics would eventually revert to posting Nazi?

Godwinned…

Tamb said:

furious said:

Nazi. Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi. Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi. Nazi.

Wasn’t there a word for the process where topics would eventually revert to posting Nazi?

Nazification.

furious said:

• Wasn’t there a word for the process where topics would eventually revert to posting Nazi?

Godwinned…

Thanks mate Godwinned.

North Korea

Tamb said:

furious said:

Nazi. Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi. Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi. Nazi.

Wasn’t there a word for the process where topics would eventually revert to posting Nazi?

yes, the Nazi’s they were a god winded lot

glad they blew away

• North Korea

WPK. WPK WPK WPK WPK. WPK WPK WPK WPK. WPK.

but

if Australian politician’s abuse peoples rights, they become abusers

abusers are criminals

I wonder who Kim will Kill next?

someone should create an android app

CrazyNeutrino said:

I wonder who Kim will Kill next?

someone should create an android app

another uncle

maybe an ex girlfriend

someone else

• I wonder who Tony will Kill next?

…fixed…

CrazyNeutrino said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

I wonder who Kim will Kill next?

someone should create an android app

another uncle

maybe an ex girlfriend
Who cares. It’s one Korean less.
someone else

another android app

What will Tony do next

a Nothing
b Nothing
c Nothing

CrazyNeutrino said:

another android app

What will Tony do next

a Nothing
b Nothing
c Nothing

What will Tony say NO to next?

• What will Tony do next

Nothing? That’s not very evil… unless there is a sinking boat of same sex couples and he does nothing…

furious said:

• I wonder who Tony will Kill next?

…fixed…

A refugee

Really Fixed

CrazyNeutrino said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

another android app

What will Tony do next

a Nothing
b Nothing
c Nothing

.
Puts up hand, please sir, nothing?
What will Tony say NO to next?

Spiny Norman said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

I want to throw the Government stooges into those NAZI camps, thats where those thugs belong

Fixed.
ALP/LNP/Greens …. all the same crap under a different name.
We deserve better.

unfortunately, you can only piss with the cock that you got

Spiny Norman said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Spiny Norman said:

Fixed.
ALP/LNP/Greens …. all the same crap under a different name.
We deserve better.

Where would we find this better class of person?

I’m not sure but the best thing to do for now is really support the true independents to take power from the main parties.
Have a read of the book, “Give us back our country”, it’s a frightening read as to how crappy things have become in the last couple of decades. I’m extremely worried how the country will be in years to come if this insanity continues.

I’m not sure that having the balance of power held by a handful of individuals is necessarily in the best interests of our country. Independents tend to either have a very specific agenda or are primarily concerned with getting the best interests of their direct constituents.

The best thing people can do to influence policy is to join one of the major political parties and lobby for reform from the inside.

The simple fact is that at a federal level (just like in here in Queensland) we now have the government (or moreover the set of governing politicians) we deserve.

diddly-squat said:

Spiny Norman said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Where would we find this better class of person?

I’m not sure but the best thing to do for now is really support the true independents to take power from the main parties.
Have a read of the book, “Give us back our country”, it’s a frightening read as to how crappy things have become in the last couple of decades. I’m extremely worried how the country will be in years to come if this insanity continues.

I’m not sure that having the balance of power held by a handful of individuals is necessarily in the best interests of our country. Independents tend to either have a very specific agenda or are primarily concerned with getting the best interests of their direct constituents.

Not so! Decisions are made by all the independents who represent the people. This is called democracy.

diddly-squat said:

The best thing people can do to influence policy is to join one of the major political parties and lobby for reform from the inside.

The simple fact is that at a federal level (just like in here in Queensland) we now have the government (or moreover the set of governing politicians) we deserve.

Strange that most who become politicians say they have absolutely no power, as they are directed from above.

PermeateFree said:

diddly-squat said:

The best thing people can do to influence policy is to join one of the major political parties and lobby for reform from the inside.

The simple fact is that at a federal level (just like in here in Queensland) we now have the government (or moreover the set of governing politicians) we deserve.

Strange that most who become politicians say they have absolutely no power, as they are directed from above.

. And in Abbotts case this means God, via the Roman Catholic Church.

bob(from black rock) said:

PermeateFree said:

diddly-squat said:

The best thing people can do to influence policy is to join one of the major political parties and lobby for reform from the inside.

The simple fact is that at a federal level (just like in here in Queensland) we now have the government (or moreover the set of governing politicians) we deserve.

Strange that most who become politicians say they have absolutely no power, as they are directed from above.

. And in Abbotts case this means God, via the Roman Catholic Church.

imagine that, imaginary power

CrazyNeutrino said:

bob(from black rock) said:

PermeateFree said:

Strange that most who become politicians say they have absolutely no power, as they are directed from above.

. And in Abbotts case this means God, via the Roman Catholic Church.

imagine that, imaginary power

Careful, or you’ll be struck by lightning.

why is discussing refugees a sport?

i think if you came into a discussion without such provocative and preconceived agenda then the thread would probably progress better. you set the tone so don’t be surprised at the result.

JudgeMental said:

i think if you came into a discussion without such provocative and preconceived agenda then the thread would probably progress better. you set the tone so don’t be surprised at the result.

is truth provocative?

well if some others could disciple their emotions, Im open to discussion, others, not you
/tic

I need to disciple my emotions too I think

Im not sure I have a preconceived agenda other than I dont like Tony & co

Im not backing down on the Nazi camps though

truth is provocative sometimes.

it is when you let emotion cloud your argument. you have to channel that emotion into forming the argument rather than ruling it.

CrazyNeutrino said:

Im not sure I have a preconceived agenda other than I dont like Tony & co

Im not backing down on the Nazi camps though

Skunkworks provided evidence that it is not only the coalition that is hard on asylum seekers who arrive by boat.

JudgeMental said:

truth is provocative sometimes.

it is when you let emotion cloud your argument. you have to channel that emotion into forming the argument rather than ruling it.

yes emotions can cloud arguments

forming the argument is the better option

Witty Rejoinder said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

Im not sure I have a preconceived agenda other than I dont like Tony & co

Im not backing down on the Nazi camps though

Skunkworks provided evidence that it is not only the coalition that is hard on asylum seekers who arrive by boat.

they’re hard on refugees who arrived by plane as well?

CrazyNeutrino said:

they’re hard on refugees who arrived by plane as well?

I don’t know the specifics for those who arrive by plane.

they’re hard on refugees who arrived by plane as well?

be a bit harder to get on a plane and out the other end without the proper documents. otherwise all the refugees in indonesia would just get on a plane and fly here rather than pay smugglers.

CrazyNeutrino said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

Im not sure I have a preconceived agenda other than I dont like Tony & co

Im not backing down on the Nazi camps though

Skunkworks provided evidence that it is not only the coalition that is hard on asylum seekers who arrive by boat.

they’re hard on refugees who arrived by plane as well?

Refugees don’t arrive by plane on behalf of not having entry visa.

To be honest, the closed book approach makes life easier for the ADF. With skewed media reports every other day and ministerial demands resulting from them – the large majority saying “this didn’t happen / the article is wrong” – it means that ADF personnel can get on with their jobs instead of writing ministerials.

JudgeMental said:

they’re hard on refugees who arrived by plane as well?

be a bit harder to get on a plane and out the other end without the proper documents. otherwise all the refugees in indonesia would just get on a plane and fly here rather than pay smugglers.

That’s correct. A lot easier to enter Australia on a visa and disappear rather than take a very dangerous boat ride with an uncertain outcome.

Obviousman said:

JudgeMental said:

they’re hard on refugees who arrived by plane as well?

be a bit harder to get on a plane and out the other end without the proper documents. otherwise all the refugees in indonesia would just get on a plane and fly here rather than pay smugglers.

That’s correct. A lot easier to enter Australia on a visa and disappear rather than take a very dangerous boat ride with an uncertain outcome.

No,overstay your visitor visa and you’ll just be deported

Dropbear said:

Obviousman said:

JudgeMental said:

they’re hard on refugees who arrived by plane as well?

be a bit harder to get on a plane and out the other end without the proper documents. otherwise all the refugees in indonesia would just get on a plane and fly here rather than pay smugglers.

That’s correct. A lot easier to enter Australia on a visa and disappear rather than take a very dangerous boat ride with an uncertain outcome.

No,overstay your visitor visa and you’ll just be deported

When, and if they find you, and if you don’t then claim asylum.

One of the cleaners at work overstayed his visa by 12 months before they found him. And he was only found out because he’d submitted a tax return during the time he’d overstayed…

Dropbear said:

Obviousman said:

JudgeMental said:

they’re hard on refugees who arrived by plane as well?

be a bit harder to get on a plane and out the other end without the proper documents. otherwise all the refugees in indonesia would just get on a plane and fly here rather than pay smugglers.

That’s correct. A lot easier to enter Australia on a visa and disappear rather than take a very dangerous boat ride with an uncertain outcome.

They have to catch you first……

You can also apply for a protection visa at the time you are found I would think (no idea really).

No,overstay your visitor visa and you’ll just be deported

Dropbear said:

Obviousman said:

JudgeMental said:

they’re hard on refugees who arrived by plane as well?

be a bit harder to get on a plane and out the other end without the proper documents. otherwise all the refugees in indonesia would just get on a plane and fly here rather than pay smugglers.

That’s correct. A lot easier to enter Australia on a visa and disappear rather than take a very dangerous boat ride with an uncertain outcome.

No,overstay your visitor visa and you’ll just be deported

If it’s that simple to just deport someone we’d just deport all the boat arrivals as well, wouldn’t we?

It’d likely be more humane to deport people straight away instead of letting them rot in detention centres.

Divine Angel said:

It’d likely be more humane to deport people straight away instead of letting them rot in detention centres.

I’m off for the night but I disagree. The detention centres in NSW, etc, were good. They no longer had to fear being killed by people, they had three good meals, comfortable quarters, TV, internet, etc. Far better conditions than where they came from. And they were safe (which addressed the primary reason they were refugees).

But malcontents rioted and now we have to process them off-shore. Don’t blame the government for that.

I don’t disagree about the conditions, but the refugees are staying in those detention centres for a really long time, hence the “rot” remark.

Divine Angel said:

I don’t disagree about the conditions, but the refugees are staying in those detention centres for a really long time, hence the “rot” remark.

yes, and now that the refugees are offshore and Visa’s costing $8000, not many journalists will report the conditions there

so, do other countries keep refugees in detention centers for similar very long periods of time?

all it costed was 5 – 6 billion dollars of taxpayers money

maybe we could spend 100 billion on solving all the worlds problems by bringing people here?

its not feasible trying to bring the worlds problems here

if some people felt strongly enough they could be given a tax rate slightly higher than everyone else to perpetually pay for the problem (with a percentage increase every year)

wookiemeister said:

all it costed was 5 – 6 billion dollars of taxpayers money

maybe we could spend 100 billion on solving all the worlds problems by bringing people here?

its not feasible trying to bring the worlds problems here

if some people felt strongly enough they could be given a tax rate slightly higher than everyone else to perpetually pay for the problem (with a percentage increase every year)

maybe we could pay the Abbott government to go away, would that work?

CrazyNeutrino said:

wookiemeister said:

all it costed was 5 – 6 billion dollars of taxpayers money

maybe we could spend 100 billion on solving all the worlds problems by bringing people here?

its not feasible trying to bring the worlds problems here

if some people felt strongly enough they could be given a tax rate slightly higher than everyone else to perpetually pay for the problem (with a percentage increase every year)

maybe we could pay the Abbott government to go away, would that work?

either way we can’t keep bringing in millions of people from war torn countries or every hell hole

we can’t keep giving billions of dollars to feed, clothe, teach people in countries that can’t be arsed to look after their own people.

give privately by all means but stop using the public treasury to grow more problems – india added 180 million extra people in ten years – are you ready to pay for it and more every year?

I think within 20 years all countries will be taking a very hard line on people trying to enter their county without being invited. The world population will have increased by a billion people, climate change will be creating all sorts of problems making habitation in some parts of the globe virtually impossible. There will be more wars especially for food and water resources and more refugees. Already people in countries that have taken the brunt of refugees are saying enough is enough and their governments should bar entry, and who could blame them.

It is one thing to sit in a comfortable air-conditioned house and say let them in, but where are you going to put them. In Australia the vast majority of people live around the coastal fringe, and do so for a very good reason. They can produce food and get water there, plus it is much cooler and more habitable and therefore attract all the production and service industries. Housing will become so expensive to buy or rent that many will be forced to live in slum conditions, plus many things in life that make living worth while will disappear, simply because of overpopulation.

For those who say let them come, let them also say where and how we are to look after them. The feel-good factor needs to be earnt and not granted for simply saying yes.

people in the hell holes of the world live in hell holes because they make them hell holes

clean up all of your shit – burn it if need be

stop throwing all your shit everywhere – and clean after up after yourself

stop driving your native wildlife into extinction it by hunting it and destroying its habitat

organise yourself and give a fuck about yourself and the people around you

stop having more babies than you can feed, clothe and care for

human societies around the world became hell holes because they couldn’t get on with each other or organise themselves and were just too stupid to even see how fucked up their societies are

a common thread of the middle east is rubbish

most of the world is boned – leave problems in their own home countries

It is one thing to sit in a comfortable air-conditioned house and say let them in,

no air-con, old house falling to pieces, living on a pension so i guess i have a right to say be more humane in their treatment and let the genuine refugees come here.

JudgeMental said:

It is one thing to sit in a comfortable air-conditioned house and say let them in,

no air-con, old house falling to pieces, living on a pension so i guess i have a right to say be more humane in their treatment and let the genuine refugees come here.

but are you paying for them?

its a question of knowing when to say NO

JudgeMental said:

It is one thing to sit in a comfortable air-conditioned house and say let them in,

no air-con, old house falling to pieces, living on a pension so i guess i have a right to say be more humane in their treatment and let the genuine refugees come here.

You still need to explain where we are going to keep them? To support an increased population you need just about everything, from houses to roads, sewage, schools, etc, etc, etc. You might not care, but the country will and it will be the country that suffers first, then its people.

then taxes explode

we’ll just have to do things smarter then. be a good incentive.

but are you paying for them?

you mean do i pay tax?

JudgeMental said:

we’ll just have to do things smarter then. be a good incentive.

Well perhaps you might like to tell us how? You will then have earned the right to that “feel-good” feeling.

Is there no length to which creationists won’t go to try and pretend they are doing real science?

An Initial Estimate toward Identifying and Numbering the Ark Turtle and Crocodile Kinds

Biosystematics is in great flux today because of the plethora of genetic research continually shedding light on organism relationships. Despite the large amount of data being published, the challenge is having enough knowledge about genetics to draw conclusions regarding the biological history of organisms and their taxonomy. Based on the analyses of molecular data, hybridization capability, and statistical baraminology it is estimated that 11 extant turtle kinds and three extant crocodile kinds were brought on the Ark.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/arj/v7/n1/turtle-crocodile-kinds

JudgeMental said:

It is one thing to sit in a comfortable air-conditioned house and say let them in,

no air-con, old house falling to pieces, living on a pension so i guess i have a right to say be more humane in their treatment and let the genuine refugees come here.

The trouble with that is the definition of genuine refugee.. I’d like to see hundreds of thousands of GENUINE ones allowed, but I imagine my definite of refugee doesn’t match that which the loonie left seem to support

which other countries keep refugees locked up as long as we do?

where does America keep refugees? Guantanamo Bay detention camp? or somewhere else?

CrazyNeutrino said:

which other countries keep refugees locked up as long as we do?

where does America keep refugees? Guantanamo Bay detention camp? or somewhere else?

We don’t keep any refugees locked up. Not one

JudgeMental said:

but are you paying for them?

you mean do i pay tax?

they should ask the people who want more refugees if they would like to pay more tax to pay for them

I don’t want to pay for them

the other option to just take as many as you can and laugh as the cities go up in flames

Dropbear said:

The trouble with that is the definition of genuine refugee.. I’d like to see hundreds of thousands of GENUINE ones allowed, but I imagine my definite of refugee doesn’t match that which the loonie left seem to support

I thought there was widespread consensus about what a real refugee entails. We just don’t want them arriving by boat.

the thing is we wont know who are “genuine”, whatever that means, if they never get to tell their story. as it is none are being allowed in so even if they are “genuine” then they are being unfairly treated.

I don’t want to pay for them

well, unfortunately the tax distribution doesn’t allow individuals to determine where their tax goes.

oooops sorry.

I

JudgeMental said:

the thing is we wont know who are “genuine”, whatever that means, if they never get to tell their story. as it is none are being allowed in so even if they are “genuine” then they are being unfairly treated.

Maybe they might consider seeking refugee status in any of the dozens of countries between their country of origin and Australia, if they don’t like our system.

The problem is not the number of refugees trying to reach Australia today, it is about the huge number of refugees that will be around within the next twenty years and of which will just get worse. We must start looking ahead and see what the future is likely to bring.

tax system

unfortunately we are party to international agreements. we just don’t fulfill them. anyway aren’t you an economic refugee from SA. didn’t you go to qld to get work?

;-)

JudgeMental said:

unfortunately we are party to international agreements. we just don’t fulfill them. anyway aren’t you an economic refugee from SA. didn’t you go to qld to get work?

;-)

I’m there purely on a cultural exchange program…

But yes, if they don’t like our system they a) don’t need to pick Australia as a destination and b) they can leave anytime … International agreements or not

it is about the huge number of refugees that will be around within the next twenty years and of which will just get worse. We must start looking ahead and see what the future is likely to bring.

if it comes to that then i doubt we’ll have the capabilities to stop them.

JudgeMental said:

unfortunately we are party to international agreements. we just don’t fulfill them. anyway aren’t you an economic refugee from SA. didn’t you go to qld to get work?

;-)

Yes but he didn’t go by boat. He jumped a freight train.

Witty Rejoinder said:

Dropbear said:

The trouble with that is the definition of genuine refugee.. I’d like to see hundreds of thousands of GENUINE ones allowed, but I imagine my definite of refugee doesn’t match that which the loonie left seem to support

I thought there was widespread consensus about what a real refugee entails. We just don’t want them arriving by boat.

What if they came by car?

or by motorbike?

i find it funny that some aussies go on about how good we are and at the same time denigrate all the wops, wogs, ragheads etc yet from what i see on the news the seem to be far more compassionate to the refugees coming across their borders, not all of course and i’m sure people will find exceptions. the barbeque squattocracy as some call it.

Dropbear said:

JudgeMental said:

the thing is we wont know who are “genuine”, whatever that means, if they never get to tell their story. as it is none are being allowed in so even if they are “genuine” then they are being unfairly treated.

Maybe they might consider seeking refugee status in any of the dozens of countries between their country of origin and Australia, if they don’t like our system.

Millions of them are in countries adjacent to where they came from. But lots of countries will persecute them just as bad as what they’re running from.

The real question that’s being missed in all of this is: “Is the arrival of assylum seekers by boat some kind of threat or national emergency for Australia?” that would warrant it being treated as a military operation?

to me the arrival of boats is more an irritation than an emergency, we’d prefer they didn’t turn up so we don’t have to deal with them. But are they a threat to the country? No. The government’s policy is silly and therefore Tony Abbott is from Sydney.

i’ll vote for you p_p.

I’ve never understood why the issue raises such passions.

Bubblecar said:

I’ve never understood why the issue raises such passions.

Because they are Muslims.

Bubblecar said:

I’ve never understood why the issue raises such passions.

Well there’s two main reasons why people don’t like immigrants. One is that immigrants are lazy moochers out to live off our welfare. The other is that immigrants work all hours of the day and night and take our jobs. Damn lazy people, working too hard all the time…

</tic>

party_pants said:

The real question that’s being missed in all of this is: “Is the arrival of assylum seekers by boat some kind of threat or national emergency for Australia?” that would warrant it being treated as a military operation?

to me the arrival of boats is more an irritation than an emergency, we’d prefer they didn’t turn up so we don’t have to deal with them. But are they a threat to the country? No. The government’s policy is silly and therefore Tony Abbott is from Sydney.

I think refugees does not warrant a military operation to be carries out in secret (sounds like old school to me)

which other countries treat refugees as military prisoners?

or which other countries use the military to process refugees?

party_pants said:

Bubblecar said:

I’ve never understood why the issue raises such passions.

Because they are Muslims.

I doubt that is the case.

Angus Prune said:

Bubblecar said:

I’ve never understood why the issue raises such passions.

Well there’s two main reasons why people don’t like immigrants. One is that immigrants are lazy moochers out to live off our welfare. The other is that immigrants work all hours of the day and night and take our jobs. Damn lazy people, working too hard all the time…

</tic>

well if there locked up, they cannot do much can they?

i think most countries would have a military presence as a first contact. the military doesn’t do our processing. that is done by a private company.

JudgeMental said:

I don’t want to pay for them

well, unfortunately the tax distribution doesn’t allow individuals to determine where their tax goes.

well that’s right, some Australian soldiers shot some afghan prisoner in the head whilst being interrogated,

I had to pay for that as well along with Australian soldiers mutilating the dead of the battlefield by chopping body parts of the corpses

refugees, war crimes, potplants, doomed helicopter and submarine programmes, the dead of the house insulation scheme I’ve had to pay for it all.

I don’t really care now , its only going to get worse so I figure I might as well get used to it.

they want to expand GST now to pay for all this guff

Angus Prune said:

Bubblecar said:

I’ve never understood why the issue raises such passions.

Well there’s two main reasons why people don’t like immigrants. One is that immigrants are lazy moochers out to live off our welfare. The other is that immigrants work all hours of the day and night and take our jobs. Damn lazy people, working too hard all the time…

</tic>

it lowers the working wage

wookiemeister said:

Angus Prune said:

Bubblecar said:

I’ve never understood why the issue raises such passions.

Well there’s two main reasons why people don’t like immigrants. One is that immigrants are lazy moochers out to live off our welfare. The other is that immigrants work all hours of the day and night and take our jobs. Damn lazy people, working too hard all the time…

</tic>

it lowers the working wage

one word: legislated minimum wage.

party_pants said:

wookiemeister said:

Angus Prune said:

Well there’s two main reasons why people don’t like immigrants. One is that immigrants are lazy moochers out to live off our welfare. The other is that immigrants work all hours of the day and night and take our jobs. Damn lazy people, working too hard all the time…

</tic>

it lowers the working wage

one word: legislated minimum wage.

hmmm yeah right

work choices

wookiemeister said:

Angus Prune said:

Bubblecar said:

I’ve never understood why the issue raises such passions.

Well there’s two main reasons why people don’t like immigrants. One is that immigrants are lazy moochers out to live off our welfare. The other is that immigrants work all hours of the day and night and take our jobs. Damn lazy people, working too hard all the time…

</tic>

it lowers the working wage

No, you’re thinking of the Liberal Party.

its a race to the bottom

Angus Prune said:

wookiemeister said:

Angus Prune said:

Well there’s two main reasons why people don’t like immigrants. One is that immigrants are lazy moochers out to live off our welfare. The other is that immigrants work all hours of the day and night and take our jobs. Damn lazy people, working too hard all the time…

</tic>

it lowers the working wage

No, you’re thinking of the Liberal Party.

they both do it

they want to expand GST now to pay for all this guff<.font>

gst goes to the states, all this guff is federal.

wookiemeister said:

JudgeMental said:

I don’t want to pay for them

well, unfortunately the tax distribution doesn’t allow individuals to determine where their tax goes.

well that’s right, some Australian soldiers shot some afghan prisoner in the head whilst being interrogated,

I had to pay for that as well along with Australian soldiers mutilating the dead of the battlefield by chopping body parts of the corpses

refugees, war crimes, potplants, doomed helicopter and submarine programmes, the dead of the house insulation scheme I’ve had to pay for it all.

I don’t really care now , its only going to get worse so I figure I might as well get used to it.

they want to expand GST now to pay for all this guff

dont forget they want a $6 medicare hike

wookiemeister said:

hmmm yeah right

work choices

I’m sick of these damn refugees joining the Liberal party, getting themselves elected to parliament, and then passing all kinds of crazy laws. Shits me to tears.

its a race to the bottom

you’ll have some company then.

JudgeMental said:

they want to expand GST now to pay for all this guff<.font>

gst goes to the states, all this guff is federal.

that’s why the states are screaming for more slice of the GST pie

>Well there’s two main reasons why people don’t like immigrants. One is that immigrants are lazy moochers out to live off our welfare. The other is that immigrants work all hours of the day and night and take our jobs. Damn lazy people, working too hard all the time…”

:)

You’re a bit evil, car.

they want to expand GST now to pay for all this guff

gst goes to the states, all this guff is federal.

angus sorry.

that’s why the states are screaming for more slice of the GST pie

no, what they want is a bigger slice of the pie thus taking it from other states.

JudgeMental said:

its a race to the bottom

you’ll have some company then.

i can only hope your pithy replies will be saved for the tax man then when he comes knocking on your door one day

any way I’m done with this

say what you want – either way its getting worse and you’ll be paying more for it.

Well I’m going to open a cold beer. Wookie’s taxes probably paid for it somewhere along the line. Cheers Wook!

party_pants said:

Well I’m going to open a cold beer. Wookie’s taxes probably paid for it somewhere along the line. Cheers Wook!

if you were having a business lunchtime meeting with a client – most likely.

wookiemeister said:

party_pants said:

Well I’m going to open a cold beer. Wookie’s taxes probably paid for it somewhere along the line. Cheers Wook!

if you were having a business lunchtime meeting with a client – most likely.

Nah, you can’t claim back the GST on that.

Australia has a expansionist middle class (so to speak), a lot of upwardly mobile working class in that, so you know having poor ‘underclass’ people coming in presents all sorts of extra ‘work’ that way.

Uncontrolled immigration has costs (economic, social and political) to the ‘trajectory’.

party_pants said:

wookiemeister said:

party_pants said:

Well I’m going to open a cold beer. Wookie’s taxes probably paid for it somewhere along the line. Cheers Wook!

if you were having a business lunchtime meeting with a client – most likely.

Nah, you can’t claim back the GST on that.

its an “expense” which means it comes off gross income of a company/ individual

Meh, I’m a boat person.

And you will all agree Australia is better off because of it…

Why we should think we are immune from nature and what we are programmed to be, but these days this is just what we do. We are a smart animal that is on top of the food chain, in other words an apex predator. Now predators must be fewer in number to that of their prey, but we have exploited just about every edible creature in the world so their numbers have fallen dramatically when compared to earlier populations.

We on the other hand have continued to proper and have kept on reproducing well in excess of what this planet can comfortably supply. However we shall continue to increase and do so for at least another 40 years, although recent research has suggested that we might keep on going for longer.

Climate change is becoming more obvious each year, it will increase the height of sealevels to affect most of our cities, and it will place enormous pressures on our food production and water supply and at a time when we have a rapidly increasing population.

Humans have regularly gone to war over more minor things than others interfering in their means to survive, so the likelihood of global disruption is very high. This in turn will produce enormous numbers of refugees, many that will not be able to be accommodated and huge numbers will likely die.

So I say in light of much harder times in the foreseeable future, why would we place ourselves in a less viable position? Evolution is not only about adaptation, it is about luck, luck that you are in the right place at the right time and can continue to survive, hopefully that you may adapt to the environment. However, there will be some environments within the next hundred years that will not be survivable, including some regions in Australia.

Morality and common decency do not count for much if you are trying to survive and this world will become a very different place in the not too distant future. By accepting large numbers of refugees is not the way to go and will reduce our capacity to adapt. Just be grateful that you are living in Australia and not in Pakistan, Africa or other countries. We have been given this chance, please don’t blow it.

A few years back, wasn’t the now-reigning party extolling the virtues of expanding the population? You’d think immigration would be a faster and more efficient way of doing that than paying locals to have an extra sprog.

I came here on a boat (the Fairstar in fact :))

>A few years back, wasn’t the now-reigning party extolling the virtues of expanding the population?

Costello sort of indirectly sired a few, as I recall.

>We are a smart animal that is on top of the food chain.

If you mean dumber than dogs in ways, then I agree.

sitmar line, i was on the castel felice. a rust bucket of the sitmar line.

I came here on a boat (the Fairstar in fact :))
———————————

A mere toy…

I arrived on The Canberra.

Cost me 2 bucks…

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2014/01/social_darwinism_and_class_essentialism_the_rich_think_they_are_superior.html?wpsrc

JudgeMental said:

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2014/01/social_darwinism_and_class_essentialism_the_rich_think_they_are_superior.html?wpsrc

If that was directed at me JM, you could not be more wrong.

wasn’t directed at anyone. don’t be so paranoid. it isn’t all about you. it was sort of a allusion to the comment i made earlier about the bbq squattocracy.

JudgeMental said:

wasn’t directed at anyone. don’t be so paranoid. it isn’t all about you. it was sort of a allusion to the comment i made earlier about the bbq squattocracy.

I don’t think it unreasonable that I should think that it may be directed at me. I brought up Darwinism and my post was the last for some time. I am not paranoid, but probably a little pissed off by your attitude.

loading the thread and doing a search for darwinism brings up my post as the only one mentioning it. please ref your post.

JudgeMental said:

loading the thread and doing a search for darwinism brings up my post as the only one mentioning it. please ref your post.

So I say in light of much harder times in the foreseeable future, why would we place ourselves in a less viable position? Evolution is not only about adaptation, it is about luck, luck that you are in the right place at the right time and can continue to survive, hopefully that you may adapt to the environment. However, there will be some environments within the next hundred years that will not be survivable, including some regions in Australia.

hardly in the same context as social darwinism.

JudgeMental said:

hardly in the same context as social darwinism.

shrugs

be happy, it was just a short trip on the outrage bus.

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2014/01/social_darwinism_and_class_essentialism_the_rich_think_they_are_superior.html?wpsrc

“…Essentialism leads to stereotyping, prejudice, and a disinclination to mingle with outsiders….”

Not all essentialism is bad, or tends social, political and economic injustices. Probably maybe should be understood also that we are coming out of a fairly intense half-century or more of social constructionism, which hasn’t perhaps made for the most balanced human nature studies lesson.

PermeateFree said:

JudgeMental said:

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2014/01/social_darwinism_and_class_essentialism_the_rich_think_they_are_superior.html?wpsrc

If that was directed at me JM, you could not be more wrong.

shakes a bony finger

Bubblecar said:

I came here on a boat (the Fairstar in fact :))

Sounds like a fun ship

diddly-squat said:

Bubblecar said:

I came here on a boat (the Fairstar in fact :))

Sounds like a fun ship

I’ve been aboard it but never sailed on it.
My arrival was by canal.

>Morality and common decency do not count for much if you are trying to survive and this world will become a very different place in the not too distant future”

Let’s imagine 95% of ‘morality and common decency’ essentially are about not imposing on others in ways that harm or injur, or cause distress, or to generalize don’t cost someone else, call it providing and maintaining ‘operating space’ so as not to ‘adversely encroach’ to generalize. Most of everything of the law can be seen somewhat this way, and it is more of a backdrop contingent thing anyway as informal behaviour controls and will and discretion tend to be the dominant theme in ‘free countries’ (education too, sharing also). So generally norms are powerful, but not imposed, people are expected to sort of come around to these by agreement in their individual ways. The joy of this is that ‘complete’ agreement isn’t required, so long as the general theme of not adversely imposing on others is tended.

This applies no less to individuals and groups “trying to survive”, as you put it.

Overpopulation etc could be a threat to this, granted, it certainly can make it more difficult, but I wouldn’t underestimate the human resolve regards such matters.

‘Social Darwinisn’ I think is to do with ideas like ‘survival of the fittest’ making their way into social and political philosophy, and ideology maybe and government policies in some form I suppose. Or a movement such tending similar.

Can you have some social and political philosophy that has little hint of Social Darwinism but does much the same thing, or something somewhat similar to some degree, I think so. One of the greatest contributors to this would be sport. Only last week the wife recounted of a sports person having said something like, if ‘you’re not living on the edge you’re a waste of space’, or something like that. To do with pushing ones abilities toward being the best getting to the top. That’s not verbatim but you’ll get the gist.

As things appear lots of sports people are socially constructed lab rats with ideas about being the best, that resemble, in my opinion, ideas similar to Social Darwinist thinking. I said ‘similar’. Sport and the media (ideological apparatus) are very much tied to each other, and ‘reality as social construction’ tends to be a theme.

transition said:

>Morality and common decency do not count for much if you are trying to survive and this world will become a very different place in the not too distant future”

Let’s imagine 95% of ‘morality and common decency’ essentially are about not imposing on others in ways that harm or injur, or cause distress, or to generalize don’t cost someone else, call it providing and maintaining ‘operating space’ so as not to ‘adversely encroach’ to generalize. Most of everything of the law can be seen somewhat this way, and it is more of a backdrop contingent thing anyway as informal behaviour controls and will and discretion tend to be the dominant theme in ‘free countries’ (education too, sharing also). So generally norms are powerful, but not imposed, people are expected to sort of come around to these by agreement in their individual ways. The joy of this is that ‘complete’ agreement isn’t required, so long as the general theme of not adversely imposing on others is tended.

This applies no less to individuals and groups “trying to survive”, as you put it.

Overpopulation etc could be a threat to this, granted, it certainly can make it more difficult, but I wouldn’t underestimate the human resolve regards such matters.

‘Social Darwinisn’ I think is to do with ideas like ‘survival of the fittest’ making their way into social and political philosophy, and ideology maybe and government policies in some form I suppose. Or a movement such tending similar.

Can you have some social and political philosophy that has little hint of Social Darwinism but does much the same thing, or something somewhat similar to some degree, I think so. One of the greatest contributors to this would be sport. Only last week the wife recounted of a sports person having said something like, if ‘you’re not living on the edge you’re a waste of space’, or something like that. To do with pushing ones abilities toward being the best getting to the top. That’s not verbatim but you’ll get the gist.

As things appear lots of sports people are socially constructed lab rats with ideas about being the best, that resemble, in my opinion, ideas similar to Social Darwinist thinking. I said ‘similar’. Sport and the media (ideological apparatus) are very much tied to each other, and ‘reality as social construction’ tends to be a theme.

Social Neo-Darwinism would of course recognise the importance of cooperation and support for the weaker members of the group, when considering which society was the “fittest”.

Prime Minister Tony Abbott likens campaign against people smugglers to ‘war’

Prime Minister Tony Abbott has likened the Government’s border protection approach to being at “war” with people smugglers.

so old school isnt it

CrazyNeutrino said:

Prime Minister Tony Abbott likens campaign against people smugglers to ‘war’

Prime Minister Tony Abbott has likened the Government’s border protection approach to being at “war” with people smugglers.

so old school isnt it

So why doesn’t he order the navy to open fire and sink a few of them? The deterrent effect of that will stop the whole boats problem pretty damn quick.

(sarcasm)

• So why doesn’t he order the navy to open fire and sink a few of them? The deterrent effect of that will stop the whole boats problem pretty damn quick.

It’s the only sensible thing to do…

>so old school isnt it

Contemporist friend, not everything of past is to become history, like your times-tables and the ten fingers gifted you courtesy of your parents and ancestors some things continue with utility, they are sound, tried and tested, proven.

CrazyNeutrino said:

Prime Minister Tony Abbott likens campaign against people smugglers to ‘war’

Prime Minister Tony Abbott has likened the Government’s border protection approach to being at “war” with people smugglers.

so old school isnt it

I hope this goes better than all the other wars of the last 60 years

CrazyNeutrino said:

we have this democracy museum here in Ballarat

wonder if I should go there and inquire if a bill of rights is more democratic than hiding a few rights in a fragmented constitution

You’ve got democracy

We’ve got guns

wookiemeister said:

I hope this goes better than all the other wars of the last 60 years

Our modern high-tech computer-enabled military versus unarmed civilians in leaky wooden boats – I reckon we’ve got it covered. What could possibly go wrong?

party_pants said:

wookiemeister said:

I hope this goes better than all the other wars of the last 60 years

Our modern high-tech computer-enabled military versus unarmed civilians in leaky wooden boats – I reckon we’ve got it covered. What could possibly go wrong?

drones blowing them up?

CrazyNeutrino said:

party_pants said:

wookiemeister said:

I hope this goes better than all the other wars of the last 60 years

Our modern high-tech computer-enabled military versus unarmed civilians in leaky wooden boats – I reckon we’ve got it covered. What could possibly go wrong?

drones blowing them up?

tic/

>Social Neo-Darwinism would of course recognise the importance of cooperation and support for the weaker members of the group, when considering which society was the “fittest”.

Elaborate for me.

>Opposition Leader Bill Shorten says the secrecy has to end.

Perhaps Bill could start with, maybe just a suggestion, something like ‘something is happening’, add another dimension to his two-dimensionality, get an imagination, build one perhaps, not borrow one or wait for a gift that way, and put it to work.

transition said:

>Opposition Leader Bill Shorten says the secrecy has to end.

Perhaps Bill could start with, maybe just a suggestion, something like ‘something is happening’, add another dimension to his two-dimensionality, get an imagination, build one perhaps, not borrow one or wait for a gift that way, and put it to work.

—-

He probably hasn’t got a reply to his emails to Rupert yet.

transition said:

Perhaps Bill could start with, maybe just a suggestion, something like ‘something is happening’, add another dimension to his two-dimensionality, get an imagination, build one perhaps, not borrow one or wait for a gift that way, and put it to work.

Clearly this is a political thread and not a morality thread.

Shorten is no doubt well aware that the only way to get the crown is to NOT demonstrate any imagination nor any character. Hawke had both and did well, anyone with either attributes since has been given the sword fairly quickly. Abbott even had both attributes until the last election when he realised he had to shut up to get up.

a 4 minute mockumentary

We have a PM who struggles to put a sentence together convincingly.

Not good.

tauto said:

We have a PM who struggles to put a sentence together convincingly.

Not good.

It is what they said about Julia. Same thing.

roughbarked said:

tauto said:

We have a PM who struggles to put a sentence together convincingly.

Not good.

It is what they said about Julia. Same thing.

—-

Ok. A PM that struggles to put a sentence together.

tauto said:

roughbarked said:

tauto said:

We have a PM who struggles to put a sentence together convincingly.

Not good.

It is what they said about Julia. Same thing.

—-

Ok. A PM that struggles to put a sentence together.

A man who suddenly finds that the truth needs to be in the sentence if he reaches the top office.

roughbarked said:

tauto said:

roughbarked said:

It is what they said about Julia. Same thing.

—-

Ok. A PM that struggles to put a sentence together.

A man who suddenly finds that the truth needs to be in the sentence if he reaches the top office.

—-

Well Peta Credlin tells him what to say, he just has problems remembering what to say.

tauto said:

roughbarked said:

tauto said:

—-

Ok. A PM that struggles to put a sentence together.

A man who suddenly finds that the truth needs to be in the sentence if he reaches the top office.

—-

Well Peta Credlin tells him what to say, he just has problems remembering what to say.

Someone will need to be credulous when Indonesia sinks one of our warships.

The current LNP would have to be one of the worst, if not the worst political party in the history of this country, but the opposition allows this to happen because they come a close second. Politics of today does not serve us well, but I don’t know how it can be changed without forcefully removing the current sorrowful lot.

PermeateFree said:

The current LNP would have to be one of the worst, if not the worst political party in the history of this country, but the opposition allows this to happen because they come a close second. Politics of today does not serve us well, but I don’t know how it can be changed without forcefully removing the current sorrowful lot.

If this is the new Australia, then hopefully it won’t last long.

>We have a PM who struggles to put a sentence together convincingly.

Mr Abbot articulates with thoughtful pauses, probably has more than a notion, perhaps even a developed working concept regards the extent media and the larger social reality machine (media etc) should impose on the many inner worlds that contribute to the former (on the subject of illegal boat arrivals anyway). I don’t like the guy much, but that’s not required anyway, what I seriously don’t like is the media getting involved in every boat landing or attempted boat landing and (trying) carving out some importance and legitimacy, in the end government has lots of administrative or bureauocratic aspects, ‘work’ of sorts that should operate in-large-part without interference.

Now, gay people are a different fish of kettle, I think if we can get behind a gay marriage industry, we’d be needing some love boats you know, we could marry them and send them back home to depopulate their countries of origin.

transition said:

>We have a PM who struggles to put a sentence together convincingly.

Mr Abbot articulates with thoughtful pauses, probably has more than a notion, perhaps even a developed working concept regards the extent media and the larger social reality machine (media etc) should impose on the many inner worlds that contribute to the former (on the subject of illegal boat arrivals anyway). I don’t like the guy much, but that’s not required anyway, what I seriously don’t like is the media getting involved in every boat landing or attempted boat landing and (trying) carving out some importance and legitimacy, in the end government has lots of administrative or bureauocratic aspects, ‘work’ of sorts that should operate in-large-part without interference.

Now, gay people are a different fish of kettle, I think if we can get behind a gay marriage industry, we’d be needing some love boats you know, we could marry them and send them back home to depopulate their countries of origin.

That latter sounds workable.