Oil companies watch out. Biofuels are on the verge of a breakthrough that will transform the oil market. Not only that: it will also green the planet.

Alarmed by the poor quality of fuel made from shale oil and tar sands and frustrated by the blunt refusal of oil companies to provide fuel of better quality, Boeing and its partners have over the past four years sponsored research into alternative fuels that has led to spectacular results. They found that there is a class of plants that can grow in deserts on salt water and has superb biomass potential. “Nobody knew this”, says Morgan. “It is a huge discovery. A game-changer for the biofuels market.”

More here:

error 503 for me

Kingy said:

Oil companies watch out. Biofuels are on the verge of a breakthrough that will transform the oil market. Not only that: it will also green the planet.

Tasmanian water?

Interesting.

We have thousand of km of coast and millions of hectares of relatively flat and undeveloped land in Australia. Instead of making the deserts bloom, we could terraform them into biofuel farms on an industrial scale.

morrie said:

error 503 for me

They appeared to have a bit of a moment. It should work now, try again.

party_pants said:

Interesting.

We have thousand of km of coast and millions of hectares of relatively flat and undeveloped land in Australia. Instead of making the deserts bloom, we could terraform them into biofuel farms on an industrial scale.

There will be opposition to any such action on the basis that it will upset the existing biota.

morrie said:

party_pants said:

Interesting.

We have thousand of km of coast and millions of hectares of relatively flat and undeveloped land in Australia. Instead of making the deserts bloom, we could terraform them into biofuel farms on an industrial scale.

There will be opposition to any such action on the basis that it will upset the existing biota.

I have the solution.

party_pants said:

morrie said:

party_pants said:

Interesting.

We have thousand of km of coast and millions of hectares of relatively flat and undeveloped land in Australia. Instead of making the deserts bloom, we could terraform them into biofuel farms on an industrial scale.

There will be opposition to any such action on the basis that it will upset the existing biota.

I have the solution.

does it require a pinch of salt?

morrie said:

party_pants said:

morrie said:

There will be opposition to any such action on the basis that it will upset the existing biota.

I have the solution.

does it require a pinch of salt?

No. Just a big stick :)

party_pants said:

Interesting.

We have thousand of km of coast and millions of hectares of relatively flat and undeveloped land in Australia. Instead of making the deserts bloom, we could terraform them into biofuel farms on an industrial scale.

It might be undeveloped, but it supports a unique flora and fauna. So why send other life forms to extinction just so we can fly fuel guzzling planes a few years longer.

Kingy said:

Oil companies watch out. Biofuels are on the verge of a breakthrough that will transform the oil market. Not only that: it will also green the planet.

Alarmed by the poor quality of fuel made from shale oil and tar sands and frustrated by the blunt refusal of oil companies to provide fuel of better quality, Boeing and its partners have over the past four years sponsored research into alternative fuels that has led to spectacular results. They found that there is a class of plants that can grow in deserts on salt water and has superb biomass potential. “Nobody knew this”, says Morgan. “It is a huge discovery. A game-changer for the biofuels market.”

More here:

old news

wookiemeister said:

old news

Yeah. We have been growing algae for that purpose for a while. It is just starting to kick off in a big way in WA.

PermeateFree said:

party_pants said:

Interesting.

We have thousand of km of coast and millions of hectares of relatively flat and undeveloped land in Australia. Instead of making the deserts bloom, we could terraform them into biofuel farms on an industrial scale.

It might be undeveloped, but it supports a unique flora and fauna. So why send other life forms to extinction just so we can fly fuel guzzling planes a few years longer.

It would only occupy a small percentage of the available land, they’re still be lots left in the natural state.

party_pants said:

PermeateFree said:

party_pants said:

Interesting.

We have thousand of km of coast and millions of hectares of relatively flat and undeveloped land in Australia. Instead of making the deserts bloom, we could terraform them into biofuel farms on an industrial scale.

It might be undeveloped, but it supports a unique flora and fauna. So why send other life forms to extinction just so we can fly fuel guzzling planes a few years longer.

It would only occupy a small percentage of the available land, they’re still be lots left in the natural state.

That’s what James Ruse said.

party_pants said:

PermeateFree said:

party_pants said:

Interesting.

We have thousand of km of coast and millions of hectares of relatively flat and undeveloped land in Australia. Instead of making the deserts bloom, we could terraform them into biofuel farms on an industrial scale.

It might be undeveloped, but it supports a unique flora and fauna. So why send other life forms to extinction just so we can fly fuel guzzling planes a few years longer.

It would only occupy a small percentage of the available land, they’re still be lots left in the natural state.

Just when is it going to end? Are you people completely mad?

PermeateFree said:

party_pants said:

PermeateFree said:

It might be undeveloped, but it supports a unique flora and fauna. So why send other life forms to extinction just so we can fly fuel guzzling planes a few years longer.

It would only occupy a small percentage of the available land, they’re still be lots left in the natural state.

Just when is it going to end? Are you people completely mad?

I am, yes, completely barking.

PermeateFree said:

Just when is it going to end? Are you people completely mad?

There is that point.

When James Ruse set up the first farm in Australia, there was a lot of natural bushland and a healthy ecosystem or at least that part which wasn’t on the tank stream.

party_pants said:

PermeateFree said:

party_pants said:

It would only occupy a small percentage of the available land, they’re still be lots left in the natural state.

Just when is it going to end? Are you people completely mad?

I am, yes, completely barking.

Do you really think the same flora and fauna exist in all “flat” land? For Christ sake get out and look around before you talk such tripe.

party_pants said:

PermeateFree said:

party_pants said:

It would only occupy a small percentage of the available land, they’re still be lots left in the natural state.

Just when is it going to end? Are you people completely mad?

I am, yes, completely barking.

Up the wrong tree apparently

morrie said:

party_pants said:

PermeateFree said:

Just when is it going to end? Are you people completely mad?

I am, yes, completely barking.

Up the wrong tree apparently

The problem with that sort of thinking is there are no trees.

I’m reverting back to wielding my big stick and crushing all opposition.

Are there any oil companies working on biofuels?

I was doing work at CSIRO on algal biofuels before CSIRO pulled the plug on my work and related work.

> Are there any oil companies working on biofuels?

Yes. Shell for starters. In addition, some oil companies will accept oil from biofuels from third-party sources as a replacement for crude oil as input into their refineries.

> They found that there is a class of plants that can grow in deserts on salt water and has superb biomass potential.

Which one? This sounds like a rehash of Jatropha, which looked extremely promising as a desert plant that could produce high concentrations of biofuels. That is, it looked promising until somebody realised that, although it grew in the desert and was very salt tolerant, it absorbed enormous amounts of water, which for large scale production in desert regions rules it out completely.

If they’re talking instead about cyanobactreria (also known as blue-green algae) then this will grow in highly saline water in the desert, but as a biofuel it’s also known that evaporation of water from algal ponds is enormous and so far no-one has come up with a cheap method for stopping the evaporation without also stopping the growth of algae. This would also require genetic manipulation of the algae and enormous tracts of land. It’s also unable to utilise the carbon in wastewater so can’t be used for water purification. And it’s difficult to harvest the oil.

The best source of biofuel is still oil palm Elaeis guineensis – which because of it environmental friendliness is of course hated by environmentalists.

Looking further at the article, I see that they found that these halophytes produce high concentrations of sugars.

Growing sugar is a really bad way to make biofuel — sugar is a carbohydrate and a carbohydrate is literally carbon+water. So turning this into fuel you burn it to get carbon -> carbon dioxide. You get no hydrogen -> water through burning because there is no excess hydrogen in sugar. This is a worse environmental strategy than burning coal, because there is at least a bit of excess hydrogen in coal. Fermenting the sugar first to produce alcohol just wastes more energy.

mollwollfumble said:

Looking further at the article, I see that they found that these halophytes produce high concentrations of sugars.

Growing sugar is a really bad way to make biofuel — sugar is a carbohydrate and a carbohydrate is literally carbon+water. So turning this into fuel you burn it to get carbon -> carbon dioxide. You get no hydrogen -> water through burning because there is no excess hydrogen in sugar. This is a worse environmental strategy than burning coal, because there is at least a bit of excess hydrogen in coal. Fermenting the sugar first to produce alcohol just wastes more energy.

Um, I don’t think so. You have captured the carbon in the biofuel from the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere.
You are clearly ahead of burning existing carbon.

Kingy said:

A game-changer for the biofuels market.”

Amazing. These days you don’t even need an actual product to go on sale to have a “game changer the biofuels market”.