>If you try to operate strictly in dream mode during your waking hours, generally people will think that you’re mad. OTOH, totally ignoring the dream world may also be seen as a form of madness…

I’d like to see a bit of emphasis on the other-than-most-wakeful, this is probably when the biology is simplified in a sense, when an individual is most intimate (not meaning affection and such, but that is an added aspect), this is when the milieu interieur does what it does hopefully without immediate impositions from whatever external. It is also when an individual internalizes experience, or sifts through it, even rejecting some of it perhaps.

I think the work of broader homeostatic mechanisms, including emotions, desires, even the internal language of minds, integration of experience, day or night, transitional states of moods one to the other also, these are biological, perhaps it could be said ‘organic’, certainly ‘fleshy experience’ has to have its peculiarities, but for us it is an individuals ‘home’, so some of a restful time and even sleep is when we ‘bring it home’ so to speak.

It’d be a shame to have ‘bringing it home’ made out to be ‘dreaming’, socially mediated that way, or ideologically mediated (excessively so, socially so, impositionally).

I’ve quoted that right at the top because I believe the subject of how individuals reconcile ‘fleshy experience’ to be important, I mean that’s what organisms adapt for, in an important way. The term ‘reconcile’ probably requires qualification, although many similarities exist across any one species, differences do too, especially of humans, less so perhaps of less complex species, and then there are the similarities and differences of the various species – but anyway the point was ‘reconcile’ doesn’t mean ‘make right’ in the sense of ‘fixed’, more was about behaviours that are a constant work perhaps, a constant effort.

I think organisms are bringing the fleshy thing home all the time. It’s not something necessarily done better while awake, or during our most wakeful.

It may be that the cyclic transitional states are just as important, the twilight states.

Are you in a romantic mood transition?

>Are you in a romantic mood transition?

No I wasn’t particularly, out doing some later watering with the dog. Cedar trees starting to show this dry summer.

Cheers for the offer though.

Been contemplating for a while the question of to what extent ‘wakeful’ might be equated (notionally, but acting on the level of the mechanism in a way, but unabstracted so) with ‘conscious’, or consciousness – the extent learning, culture and ideology might tend a view of the busy things we do or are about, are (to make it relevant to the language you used) ‘home’.

I mean ‘dream’ maybe what most of us live in anyway, in a way, and why not, it might be more a question of who or what dominates the dream/ing.

Point being that to generalize ‘Most Wakeful = Most Conscious’ may be an ideological device, part of societal behaviour controls serving a hierarchy.

It may be true that most wakeful does equal most conscious, but if the contribution of the other-than-wakeful and transitional states were necessary for that, and the socially-underextended more intimate states (sleeping and transitional states) were more true to the basic biology (the immediate comfort realities of the fleshy thing), then ‘Most Wakeful = Most Conscious’ may start to look look a dubious motivating device.

It may be that unthunk ideas of wakefulness that tend a narrowed converged/ing singular, even monistic view of consciousness (shared, though perhaps largely illusion, or even delusion) may tend lesser discerningness of ‘social consciousness’ from individual awarenesses.

The pain I have been experiencing due to a pinched nerve has lead me into sleep deprivation, and this has caused some colorful thinking, a few nights ago I was lying in bed with my pain at around its usual 4 to 5 out of ten and I was in a state of mild mediation, I noticed my ears popped and the surrounding sounds dropped to less than one third, I panicked a bit and and my hearing returned to normal, this has now happened a few times over the last week so I am getting used to it

I put this down to my body trying to go to sleep, I have experienced my ears popping in the past in the the mornings and the sound suddenly being turned up, but never popping going to sleep until now

so this popping of the ears is a sensory perception control function, the bodies senses being turned down, while going to sleep and turned up again in the morning when waking

so now I am wondering how the body switches off or turns down the other senses, and I am guessing that its ears first, followed by eyes, followed by feeling etc

>so now I am wondering how the body switches off or turns down the other senses, and I am guessing that its ears first, followed by eyes, followed by feeling etc

Could be, i’ve noticed on waking as I get, well, less young, that I can wake, see the TV going, then it seems to unmute some seconds or fractions of later, as if someone unmuted it with the remote. But other times while dozing I note the sound, courtesy of my little brain dampening the sound input.

The experience of hearing something while asleep then waking afterward is interesting too. I’m very sensitive to rain and the wind kicking up because for years have had to cover stuff up at night.

I have weird explosions in my head sometimes, can’t recall the name of it, did read about it some way back.

Anyway, it now being 9:40, and I haven’t achieved anything except consume my first coffee, I’d better go try to get something done.

Inner south side of Brisbane: weather report.

14.0°C, 60% RH. Largely overcast, fine, cool breezes. Lovely for outside work.

Bye.

Fred Wong. Sorry.

CrazyNeutrino said:

The pain I have been experiencing due to a pinched nerve has lead me into sleep deprivation, and this has caused some colorful thinking, a few nights ago I was lying in bed with my pain at around its usual 4 to 5 out of ten and I was in a state of mild mediation, I noticed my ears popped and the surrounding sounds dropped to less than one third, I panicked a bit and and my hearing returned to normal, this has now happened a few times over the last week so I am getting used to it

I put this down to my body trying to go to sleep, I have experienced my ears popping in the past in the the mornings and the sound suddenly being turned up, but never popping going to sleep until now

so this popping of the ears is a sensory perception control function, the bodies senses being turned down, while going to sleep and turned up again in the morning when waking

so now I am wondering how the body switches off or turns down the other senses, and I am guessing that its ears first, followed by eyes, followed by feeling etc

I would think it would depend what your dominant sense was visual or audio or kinesthetic sense. And if you were in a state of dissociation, depersonalisation or derealisation. It would effect you differently.

this article belongs here

There is a fascinating book called “The Promise of Sleep” by William Dement. He is from Stanford University and pioneered the first sleep study centre.

transition said:

>so now I am wondering how the body switches off or turns down the other senses, and I am guessing that its ears first, followed by eyes, followed by feeling etc

Could be, i’ve noticed on waking as I get, well, less young, that I can wake, see the TV going, then it seems to unmute some seconds or fractions of later, as if someone unmuted it with the remote. But other times while dozing I note the sound, courtesy of my little brain dampening the sound input.

The experience of hearing something while asleep then waking afterward is interesting too. I’m very sensitive to rain and the wind kicking up because for years have had to cover stuff up at night.

I have weird explosions in my head sometimes, can’t recall the name of it, did read about it some way back.

muting/ un muting is perhaps a better word for it

Salvador Dali used to to dream experiments using an alarm clock

he would set the alarm clock for every 5 minutes, go to sleep, dream, alarm wakes him up, and he could remember his dreams and incorporate that into his artworks

CrazyNeutrino said:

transition said:

>so now I am wondering how the body switches off or turns down the other senses, and I am guessing that its ears first, followed by eyes, followed by feeling etc

Could be, i’ve noticed on waking as I get, well, less young, that I can wake, see the TV going, then it seems to unmute some seconds or fractions of later, as if someone unmuted it with the remote. But other times while dozing I note the sound, courtesy of my little brain dampening the sound input.

The experience of hearing something while asleep then waking afterward is interesting too. I’m very sensitive to rain and the wind kicking up because for years have had to cover stuff up at night.

I have weird explosions in my head sometimes, can’t recall the name of it, did read about it some way back.

muting/ un muting is perhaps a better word for it

Salvador Dali used to to dream experiments using an alarm clock

he would set the alarm clock for every 5 minutes, go to sleep, dream, alarm wakes him up, and he could remember his dreams and incorporate that into his artworks

I like waking up in the night as I do remember more dreams.

ms spock said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

The pain I have been experiencing due to a pinched nerve has lead me into sleep deprivation, and this has caused some colorful thinking, a few nights ago I was lying in bed with my pain at around its usual 4 to 5 out of ten and I was in a state of mild mediation, I noticed my ears popped and the surrounding sounds dropped to less than one third, I panicked a bit and and my hearing returned to normal, this has now happened a few times over the last week so I am getting used to it

I put this down to my body trying to go to sleep, I have experienced my ears popping in the past in the the mornings and the sound suddenly being turned up, but never popping going to sleep until now

so this popping of the ears is a sensory perception control function, the bodies senses being turned down, while going to sleep and turned up again in the morning when waking

so now I am wondering how the body switches off or turns down the other senses, and I am guessing that its ears first, followed by eyes, followed by feeling etc

I would think it would depend what your dominant sense was visual or audio or kinesthetic sense. And if you were in a state of dissociation, depersonalisation or derealisation. It would effect you differently.

Ok , never thought of dominant senses

i am a visual person so I guess it makes sense

pun there

CrazyNeutrino said:

ms spock said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

The pain I have been experiencing due to a pinched nerve has lead me into sleep deprivation, and this has caused some colorful thinking, a few nights ago I was lying in bed with my pain at around its usual 4 to 5 out of ten and I was in a state of mild mediation, I noticed my ears popped and the surrounding sounds dropped to less than one third, I panicked a bit and and my hearing returned to normal, this has now happened a few times over the last week so I am getting used to it

I put this down to my body trying to go to sleep, I have experienced my ears popping in the past in the the mornings and the sound suddenly being turned up, but never popping going to sleep until now

so this popping of the ears is a sensory perception control function, the bodies senses being turned down, while going to sleep and turned up again in the morning when waking

so now I am wondering how the body switches off or turns down the other senses, and I am guessing that its ears first, followed by eyes, followed by feeling etc

I would think it would depend what your dominant sense was visual or audio or kinesthetic sense. And if you were in a state of dissociation, depersonalisation or derealisation. It would effect you differently.

Ok , never thought of dominant senses

i am a visual person so I guess it makes sense

pun there

Very nicely done.

ms spock said:

There is a fascinating book called “The Promise of Sleep” by William Dement. He is from Stanford University and pioneered the first sleep study centre.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Promise-Sleep-Connection-Happiness/dp/0440509017

bookmarked

thanks

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3U52sP25ynE&feature=kp

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-90598/What-happens-body-youre-asleep.html

bookmarked as well

I also read somewhere that sleep can clean the brain

will have to try and find it again

CrazyNeutrino said:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-90598/What-happens-body-youre-asleep.html

bookmarked as well

I also read somewhere that sleep can clean the brain

will have to try and find it again

I read about that yesterday, that a build up of certain chemicals was discharged from the brain during sleep. I can’t remember where I read it.

CrazyNeutrino said:

The pain I have been experiencing due to a pinched nerve has lead me into sleep deprivation

I have told you how to get rid of your pinched nerve

Apply vibration to it

Thanks Wookie

so now I am wondering how the body switches off or turns down the other senses, and I am guessing that its ears first,
—————————————————————————————————-

Yeah I’m a ears first kinda guy.

I find it somewhat amusing/interesting to be awake with no sound.

But it is a difficult state to maintain as you have to___ think___ very___ quietly___

You know, you have to try not to try…

I’m surprised that no one has mentioned the word “hypnagogic” yet.

For an introduction, including the history and romantic notions associated with with these “twilight states” see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypnagogia

Cheers for that, Moll.

Some of these, maybe related, are interesting, though the angle for much of whatever are pathology-related/tending. The latter link descibes something I have experienced, though while awake (extreme fatigue and prolonged sleep deprivation etc), though no anxiety caused by it (quite a way back now).

The Tetris effect reminds me of days finding caltrop (weed with nasty seeds) and closing my eyes and seeing the ‘template’ image of the plant, though that’s all I believe it were, a search template image for efficent identification/location.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetris_effect
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mal_de_debarquement

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploding_head_syndrome