From Pesticide Toxicity?

Derek Lowe said:

There’s been a report on the toxicity of various pesticides in the literature suggesting that they’re far more toxic to human cells than had been thought. My eyebrows went up a bit when I heard this, because these sorts of assays had been done many times before. Then I realized that this was another paper from the Séralini group, and unfortunately, that alone is enough to account for the variance.

Update: commentors to this post have noted that the cell culture conditions used in the paper are rather unusual. Specifically, they’re serum-free during the testing period, which puts the cells under stress to begin with. There’s also the general problem, which others have brought up, about what it means to dispense these things directly onto cell cultures in diluted DMSO, since that’s rather far from how they’re going to be presented in the real world. Cell assays get run like that in the drug industry, to be sure, but you’ve got to be very careful drawing toxicological or other whole-animal conclusions from them. And we already have whole-animal studies on these formulations, don’t we? I mean, juiced broccoli straight from the organic farmer’s market might well have similar effects under these conditions.
Here’s a story from Science with more background. Seralini is the guy who made headlines a couple of years ago with another report that genetically modified corn caused tumors in rodents, but that one was so poorly run and poorly controlled that its conclusions (which have not been seen in any other study) cannot be taken seriously. That’s Séralini’s problem right there: from all appearances, he’s a passionate advocate for his positions, and he appears to be ready to go with whatever results line up with his beliefs. This is human nature, for sure, but science is about trying to work past those parts of human nature. The key is to keep the curious, inquisitive side, and correct for the confirmation bias I-know-I’m-right side. At this point, even if Séralini were to discover something real (and really worth taking seriously), it would have a hard time gaining acceptance, because his previous papers have been so unreliably over-the-top.

I’m not the only person who thinks that. An editor of the journal this latest Seralini paper appeared in has actually resigned because it got published

[…]

Should pesticide toxicity be a subject of investigation? Absolutely. Should people be alert to assays that have not been run that should be investigated? Definitely. Are there things that we don’t know about pesticide exposure that we should? I would certainly think so. But Séralini’s history makes him (scientifically) one of the least effective people to be working on these questions. As a headline-grabber, though, he’s pretty efficient. Which I suspect is the real point. If you’re sure you’re right, any weapon you can pick up is a good one.

So get ready for yet another a wave of anti-pesticide woo. :(

the anti-monsanto brigade loved his tumors in rats study. that comes up in one guise or another on FB all the time.

Boris said:

the anti-monsanto brigade loved his tumors in rats study. that comes up in one guise or another on FB all the time.

And the squirrel one too.

Bugger…

Divine Angel said:

Boris said:

the anti-monsanto brigade loved his tumors in rats study. that comes up in one guise or another on FB all the time.

And the squirrel one too.

Pesticide toxicity.

I think my cat was killed by bromethalin rat poison today.

The neighbours were killing rats about a fortnight ago, and our cat slowly became paralyzed. Left front leg then both front legs then all legs then lungs then death – over a period of almost two weeks. Apparently the damage from bromethalin increases with time unlike most poisons because the greatest toxicity is due to metabolic breakdown products rather than the original pesticide. The paralysis is due to oedema of the brain and pressure on the nerves.

That’s awful, moll :(

If the cause is discovered early, can the damage be reversed?

mollwollfumble said:

Pesticide toxicity.

I think my cat was killed by bromethalin rat poison today.

The neighbours were killing rats about a fortnight ago, and our cat slowly became paralyzed. Left front leg then both front legs then all legs then lungs then death – over a period of almost two weeks. Apparently the damage from bromethalin increases with time unlike most poisons because the greatest toxicity is due to metabolic breakdown products rather than the original pesticide. The paralysis is due to oedema of the brain and pressure on the nerves.

Is bromethalin a secondary poison – that is, if your can eats a rodent that’s been killed by bromethelin, will the poison affect the cat? I’ve looked, but can’t find any studies on it.

Bromethalin

Wocky said:

Is bromethalin a secondary poison – that is, if your can eats a rodent that’s been killed by bromethelin, will the poison affect the cat? I’ve looked, but can’t find any studies on it.

A cat can be poisoned by eating rats that have eaten bromethelin, according to the vet. Or by eating the rat baits directly.

Divine Angel said:

That’s awful, moll :(

If the cause is discovered early, can the damage be reversed?

No.

Bummer, moll.

:(

mollwollfumble said:

Pesticide toxicity.

I think my cat was killed by bromethalin rat poison today.

The neighbours were killing rats about a fortnight ago, and our cat slowly became paralyzed. Left front leg then both front legs then all legs then lungs then death – over a period of almost two weeks. Apparently the damage from bromethalin increases with time unlike most poisons because the greatest toxicity is due to metabolic breakdown products rather than the original pesticide. The paralysis is due to oedema of the brain and pressure on the nerves.

notify the council – it gets them logged as a problem

my sisters cats were killed in this way by a malicious neighbour in “wagga” – which when I visited gave off a very weird vibe

in my opinion no bait should be sold to anyone except a trained and licenced professional

we should not be allowing this stuff to be sold off the shelf at bunnings or elsewhere, its absurd that deadly poisons be traded in this way.

Think I might need glasses. I keep reading the title of this thread as ‘Testicide Poxicity’.

I don’t even know what that is, but it doesn’t sound very good.

;-)

Birds such as sparrowhawks and falcons can also be easily killed in the same way as the cat.

A non-toxic way to kill rodents is to mix some flour and plaster of paris in equal quantities. Supply some water in a nearby container..

npic.orst.edu/factsheets/rodenticides.pdf

secondary poisoning to mammals from Bromethalin is low risk according to this site.

Boris said:

npic.orst.edu/factsheets/rodenticides.pdf

secondary poisoning to mammals from Bromethalin is low risk according to this site.

Not so nice to fish.

moll had a cat not a fish.

roughbarked said:

A non-toxic way to kill rodents is to mix some flour and plaster of paris in equal quantities. Supply some water in a nearby container..

The trap is set.
Damn.

mollwollfumble said:

Pesticide toxicity.

I think my cat was killed by bromethalin rat poison today.

The neighbours were killing rats about a fortnight ago, and our cat slowly became paralyzed. Left front leg then both front legs then all legs then lungs then death – over a period of almost two weeks. Apparently the damage from bromethalin increases with time unlike most poisons because the greatest toxicity is due to metabolic breakdown products rather than the original pesticide. The paralysis is due to oedema of the brain and pressure on the nerves.

I just spoke again to my neighbours. They categorically deny that they put out any bromethalin at the time our cat first became ill. Perhaps it was a natural death – brain cancer – after all.

>They categorically deny that they put out any bromethalin

Certainly fitted symptoms. Cats apparently are more sensitive than dogs as recall.

mollwollfumble said:

Pesticide toxicity.

I think my cat was killed by bromethalin rat poison today.

The neighbours were killing rats about a fortnight ago, and our cat slowly became paralyzed. Left front leg then both front legs then all legs then lungs then death – over a period of almost two weeks. Apparently the damage from bromethalin increases with time unlike most poisons because the greatest toxicity is due to metabolic breakdown products rather than the original pesticide. The paralysis is due to oedema of the brain and pressure on the nerves.

That sounds exactly like what happened to my dog. I don’t know how he could have consumed any though, as he would not accept food from strangers and I doubt that he would have eaten a bait or an animal affected by a bait.