Following along from DVs questions the other day about why they didnt know where the Malaysian plane went down.. Turns out that for a great day of an airliners flight over water, there is no radar or ADSB coverage.. so ATC does not have exact fixes on the locations of an airliner unless they radio in and give a position report..

Mainland australian continent has pretty much full ADSB coverage at 30,000 feet

http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/projects/ads-b/ads-b-coverage/

The red circles (i think) represent actual radar coverage.

The following link gives ADSB coverage for the world, so you can see there is fk all coverage off the coast of Malaysia..

http://flightaware.com/adsb/coverage

I am told by a pilot (second hand here) that “Mode S” transponders should give location details as well as just height and ident, but I don’t know if you need to be in normal radar coverage areas for that to be effective. (no doubt Billz knows)

Dropbear said:

Following along from DVs questions the other day about why they didnt know where the Malaysian plane went down.. Turns out that for a great day of an airliners flight over water, there is no radar or ADSB coverage.. so ATC does not have exact fixes on the locations of an airliner unless they radio in and give a position report..

Mainland australian continent has pretty much full ADSB coverage at 30,000 feet

http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/projects/ads-b/ads-b-coverage/

The red circles (i think) represent actual radar coverage.

The following link gives ADSB coverage for the world, so you can see there is fk all coverage off the coast of Malaysia..

http://flightaware.com/adsb/coverage

I am told by a pilot (second hand here) that “Mode S” transponders should give location details as well as just height and ident, but I don’t know if you need to be in normal radar coverage areas for that to be effective. (no doubt Billz knows)

Even the Lord doesn’t.. as I’m sure others will offer.

roughbarked said:

Dropbear said:

Following along from DVs questions the other day about why they didnt know where the Malaysian plane went down.. Turns out that for a great day of an airliners flight over water, there is no radar or ADSB coverage.. so ATC does not have exact fixes on the locations of an airliner unless they radio in and give a position report..

Mainland australian continent has pretty much full ADSB coverage at 30,000 feet

http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/projects/ads-b/ads-b-coverage/

The red circles (i think) represent actual radar coverage.

The following link gives ADSB coverage for the world, so you can see there is fk all coverage off the coast of Malaysia..

http://flightaware.com/adsb/coverage

I am told by a pilot (second hand here) that “Mode S” transponders should give location details as well as just height and ident, but I don’t know if you need to be in normal radar coverage areas for that to be effective. (no doubt Billz knows)

Even the Lord doesn’t.. as I’m sure others will offer.

in fairness… any omnipotent deity worth its salt would know where all things were at all times

diddly-squat said:

roughbarked said:

Dropbear said:

Following along from DVs questions the other day about why they didnt know where the Malaysian plane went down.. Turns out that for a great day of an airliners flight over water, there is no radar or ADSB coverage.. so ATC does not have exact fixes on the locations of an airliner unless they radio in and give a position report..

Mainland australian continent has pretty much full ADSB coverage at 30,000 feet

http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/projects/ads-b/ads-b-coverage/

The red circles (i think) represent actual radar coverage.

The following link gives ADSB coverage for the world, so you can see there is fk all coverage off the coast of Malaysia..

http://flightaware.com/adsb/coverage

I am told by a pilot (second hand here) that “Mode S” transponders should give location details as well as just height and ident, but I don’t know if you need to be in normal radar coverage areas for that to be effective. (no doubt Billz knows)

Even the Lord doesn’t.. as I’m sure others will offer.

in fairness… any omnipotent deity worth its salt would know where all things were at all times

One could be excused for accepting that as so.

Don’t aircraft have something like an EPERB ?

rumpole said:

Don’t aircraft have something like an EPERB ?

EPIRB

at the bottom of the ocean with the rest of the wreckage I imagine ..

although I’m told the ocean isn’t particularly all that deep there … so they should find it before the batteries run out

Dropbear said:

rumpole said:

Don’t aircraft have something like an EPERB ?

EPIRB

at the bottom of the ocean with the rest of the wreckage I imagine ..

although I’m told the ocean isn’t particularly all that deep there … so they should find it before the batteries run out

I’m told, they are looking..

roughbarked said:

Dropbear said:

rumpole said:

Don’t aircraft have something like an EPERB ?

EPIRB

at the bottom of the ocean with the rest of the wreckage I imagine ..

although I’m told the ocean isn’t particularly all that deep there … so they should find it before the batteries run out

I’m told, they are looking..

Thanks, keep us informed of as much as you can.

Peak Warming Man said:

roughbarked said:

Dropbear said:

EPIRB

at the bottom of the ocean with the rest of the wreckage I imagine ..

although I’m told the ocean isn’t particularly all that deep there … so they should find it before the batteries run out

I’m told, they are looking..

Thanks, keep us informed of as much as you can.

shall do..

Dropbear said:

unless they radio in and give a position report..

Why can’t this be automated?

Soso said:

Dropbear said:

unless they radio in and give a position report..

Interesting article here :

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-10/malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370-what-we-know/5309688

“A 2009 story on ABC TV’s Foreign Correspondent raised questions about why airlines still relied on black boxes on board planes to record flight data.

“It’s highly desirable that data is streamed live from the aircraft to the maintenance base,” aviation lawyer James Healy-Pratt told Foreign Correspondent in 2009, when AF447’s flight recorders had not yet been recovered.

“It is absurd that air safety depends on black boxes, which sometimes cannot be recovered – or if they are recovered, then the data cannot be properly transcribed because the boxes are damaged beyond analysis. And that’s happened in many aircraft crashes that we’ve been involved in.”

Why can’t this be automated?

As I alluded to in chat these planes have a constant stream of real time data going back to the manufactures, the Airfrance crash into the Atlantic had it and the 777’s have it. Boeing should be making a statement about that data, when it was lost, what it was saying etc.
I haven’t heard any news about that apart from a lady on the 7.30 report who confirmed the existence of this data stream.

Peak Warming Man said:

As I alluded to in chat these planes have a constant stream of real time data going back to the manufactures, the Airfrance crash into the Atlantic had it and the 777’s have it. Boeing should be making a statement about that data, when it was lost, what it was saying etc.
I haven’t heard any news about that apart from a lady on the 7.30 report who confirmed the existence of this data stream.

If this data included position data, it seems Boeing isn’t talking to the rescue fleet.

Or is it just aircraft performance data ?

Peak Warming Man said:

As I alluded to in chat these planes have a constant stream of real time data going back to the manufactures, the Airfrance crash into the Atlantic had it and the 777’s have it. Boeing should be making a statement about that data, when it was lost, what it was saying etc.
I haven’t heard any news about that apart from a lady on the 7.30 report who confirmed the existence of this data stream.

How accurately can a 777 at full speed know where it is/was at a particular instant anyway? Do you need special technology to make sense of the GPS signals at those speeds?

rumpole said:

Peak Warming Man said:

As I alluded to in chat these planes have a constant stream of real time data going back to the manufactures, the Airfrance crash into the Atlantic had it and the 777’s have it. Boeing should be making a statement about that data, when it was lost, what it was saying etc.
I haven’t heard any news about that apart from a lady on the 7.30 report who confirmed the existence of this data stream.

If this data included position data, it seems Boeing isn’t talking to the rescue fleet.

Or is it just aircraft performance data ?

Yes well I doubt it is locational data. the radar showed that and the plane went off the radar quite quickly. However surely they’d be able to accurately enough plot the rough location of the crash if the plane continued in the same direction at the same speed. Somehow they aren’t sure of which direction the plane went after it disappeared. They have ground penetrating equipment they should be able to detect things through seawater too.

roughbarked said:

rumpole said:

Peak Warming Man said:

As I alluded to in chat these planes have a constant stream of real time data going back to the manufactures, the Airfrance crash into the Atlantic had it and the 777’s have it. Boeing should be making a statement about that data, when it was lost, what it was saying etc.
I haven’t heard any news about that apart from a lady on the 7.30 report who confirmed the existence of this data stream.

If this data included position data, it seems Boeing isn’t talking to the rescue fleet.

Or is it just aircraft performance data ?

Yes well I doubt it is locational data. the radar showed that and the plane went off the radar quite quickly. However surely they’d be able to accurately enough plot the rough location of the crash if the plane continued in the same direction at the same speed. Somehow they aren’t sure of which direction the plane went after it disappeared. They have ground penetrating equipment they should be able to detect things through seawater too.

How long did it take them to find Sydney?

With a mass in the order of thousands more.

jjjust moi said:

roughbarked said:

rumpole said:

If this data included position data, it seems Boeing isn’t talking to the rescue fleet.

Or is it just aircraft performance data ?

Yes well I doubt it is locational data. the radar showed that and the plane went off the radar quite quickly. However surely they’d be able to accurately enough plot the rough location of the crash if the plane continued in the same direction at the same speed. Somehow they aren’t sure of which direction the plane went after it disappeared. They have ground penetrating equipment they should be able to detect things through seawater too.

How long did it take them to find Sydney?

With a mass in the order of thousands more.

The Sydney and the Perth were in larger search areas but yes the search could take a long while.areas

roughbarked said:

jjjust moi said:

roughbarked said:

Yes well I doubt it is locational data. the radar showed that and the plane went off the radar quite quickly. However surely they’d be able to accurately enough plot the rough location of the crash if the plane continued in the same direction at the same speed. Somehow they aren’t sure of which direction the plane went after it disappeared. They have ground penetrating equipment they should be able to detect things through seawater too.

How long did it take them to find Sydney?

With a mass in the order of thousands more.

The Sydney and the Perth were in larger search areas but yes the search could take a long while.areas

and it was highly magnetic, the 777 won’t be. They also suspect it broke up mid air, scattering debris over a wide area.

jjjust moi said:

roughbarked said:

jjjust moi said:

How long did it take them to find Sydney?

With a mass in the order of thousands more.

The Sydney and the Perth were in larger search areas but yes the search could take a long while.areas

and it was highly magnetic, the 777 won’t be. They also suspect it broke up mid air, scattering debris over a wide area.

Yes It would appear to have either lost one or both wings separated from the fuselage or even greater dispersal but the lack of smaller debris usually means that it sank quickly in larger pieces.

Ohh, can I add to nobody has a clue dot com?

Malaysia’s state news agency quoted home minister Ahmad Zahid Hamidi as saying the two passengers using the stolen European passports were of Asian appearance, and criticised the border officials who let them through.

“I am still perturbed. Can’t these immigration officials think? Italian and Austrian but with Asian faces,” he was quoted as saying late on Sunday.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-10/malaysia-airlines-mh370-five-passengers-failed-to-board/5310874

Oh…dear :(

sibeen said:

Malaysia’s state news agency quoted home minister Ahmad Zahid Hamidi as saying the two passengers using the stolen European passports were of Asian appearance, and criticised the border officials who let them through.

“I am still perturbed. Can’t these immigration officials think? Italian and Austrian but with Asian faces,” he was quoted as saying late on Sunday.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-10/malaysia-airlines-mh370-five-passengers-failed-to-board/5310874

Oh…dear :(

Yes there are a lot of Oh dears..

Every idiot knows it’s impossible for someone with Asian heritage to have a Western passport.

Soso said:

Every idiot knows it’s impossible for someone with Asian heritage to have a Western passport.

According to Interpol reports, last year across the globe passengers boarded planes more than a billion times without having their passports screened against its Stolen and Lost Travel Documents database.

Soso said:

Every idiot knows it’s impossible for someone with Asian heritage to have a Western passport.

Did they change the photos on the stolen passports?

party_pants said:

Soso said:

Every idiot knows it’s impossible for someone with Asian heritage to have a Western passport.

Did they change the photos on the stolen passports?

It is possible, it would simply be a more expensive dodgy passport.

if I were stealing passports based on appearance I would trawl the web and search for images on things like facebook

once a likely candidate was found you’d go and rob his house perhaps?

wookiemeister said:

if I were stealing passports based on appearance I would trawl the web and search for images on things like facebook

once a likely candidate was found you’d go and rob his house perhaps?

it all depends upon why you’d want to use a stolen passport. There are lots of things one can do with a passport if it isn’t scrutinised carefully.

a PIN number for passports would stop this

if a person was being held under duress they would give the hostages the number to signify they were being held under duress and the person allowed to pass through passport control

the fake person passing through might have a partner in crime that would eyeball his mate and see if he passed through passport control

as the person typed in the duress code the airport would then start scanning mobile calls

the watcher might call his friends on his mobile to tell them the duress code had been activated (they kill the hostage?) or he calls if the person passes through.

you use the mobile phone network to zoom in on the potential location of the hostage, some kind of distraction might be called upon to slow the process

the yanks came up with a system that watched when people were staring at a location

you could have small cameras secreted around the check out area, a watcher would stare at their fellow conspirator. when the duress alarm goes off the eyeballs of people are noted (yes this is really possible)

you might have systems to take note of heart rate too to identify a watcher

all of these systems could be totally unobtrusive and unknown to the average passenger, the scene should be set to relax joe average and thus make the potential terrorist stand out like a infra red candle flame.

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

if I were stealing passports based on appearance I would trawl the web and search for images on things like facebook

once a likely candidate was found you’d go and rob his house perhaps?

it all depends upon why you’d want to use a stolen passport. There are lots of things one can do with a passport if it isn’t scrutinised carefully.

you could be transferring money

attempting to carry a bomb onto an aircraft

attempting to enter a country to commit an act of terrorism

you need to screen the passengers lined up in some unobtrusive way

watch the passengers with infra red , heart beat monitors could be installed in the floor to detect the heart rate of each individual passenger, see if the passengers stare at security officers

get the airport security to stroll past the passengers to see what shakes out the tree

I used to fuck around with the heads of the security detail when I used to leave Israel because I stood and analysed what they were doing

I got one poor sap to go through my stinking clothing I had loaded into my suitcase for a laugh

wookiemeister said:

I used to fuck around with the heads of the security detail when I used to leave Israel because I stood and analysed what they were doing

—-

Cool. Mossad file would read “Harmless idiot”

tauto said:

wookiemeister said:

I used to fuck around with the heads of the security detail when I used to leave Israel because I stood and analysed what they were doing

—-

Cool. Mossad file would read “Harmless idiot”

the people doing the job were mostly of the same description

its always interesting to see how security works in airports

I’d say there’s plenty of cameras but no real way to identify trouble unless you can think outside the box

would someone acting cool/ disinterested have burning hot coal eyeballs under the gaze of a infra red camera

would they move in a different way?

police copters use the old trick of flying away from people when they are watching them, psychologically the target thinks good – they are flying away – whilst all the time the little camera has swivelled around and is watching them.

people hiding from the copter will naturally act cool but find shelter (walk under a tree) or walk into a tunnel but stand out a little to watch the copter – they must watch for this suspicious behaviour.

wookiemeister said:

tauto said:

wookiemeister said:

I used to fuck around with the heads of the security detail when I used to leave Israel because I stood and analysed what they were doing

—-

Cool. Mossad file would read “Harmless idiot”

the people doing the job were mostly of the same description

its always interesting to see how security works in airports

I’d say there’s plenty of cameras but no real way to identify trouble unless you can think outside the box

would someone acting cool/ disinterested have burning hot coal eyeballs under the gaze of a infra red camera

would they move in a different way?

police copters use the old trick of flying away from people when they are watching them, psychologically the target thinks good – they are flying away – whilst all the time the little camera has swivelled around and is watching them.

people hiding from the copter will naturally act cool but find shelter (walk under a tree) or walk into a tunnel but stand out a little to watch the copter – they must watch for this suspicious behaviour.

—-

If you could change one thing you could be a hollywood c grade scrpt writer

tauto said:

wookiemeister said:

tauto said:

—-

Cool. Mossad file would read “Harmless idiot”

the people doing the job were mostly of the same description

its always interesting to see how security works in airports

I’d say there’s plenty of cameras but no real way to identify trouble unless you can think outside the box

would someone acting cool/ disinterested have burning hot coal eyeballs under the gaze of a infra red camera

would they move in a different way?

police copters use the old trick of flying away from people when they are watching them, psychologically the target thinks good – they are flying away – whilst all the time the little camera has swivelled around and is watching them.

people hiding from the copter will naturally act cool but find shelter (walk under a tree) or walk into a tunnel but stand out a little to watch the copter – they must watch for this suspicious behaviour.

—-

If you could change one thing you could be a hollywood c grade scrpt writer

i could be used to spice up a lame script

wookiemeister said:

tauto said:

wookiemeister said:

the people doing the job were mostly of the same description

its always interesting to see how security works in airports

I’d say there’s plenty of cameras but no real way to identify trouble unless you can think outside the box

would someone acting cool/ disinterested have burning hot coal eyeballs under the gaze of a infra red camera

would they move in a different way?

police copters use the old trick of flying away from people when they are watching them, psychologically the target thinks good – they are flying away – whilst all the time the little camera has swivelled around and is watching them.

people hiding from the copter will naturally act cool but find shelter (walk under a tree) or walk into a tunnel but stand out a little to watch the copter – they must watch for this suspicious behaviour.

—-

If you could change one thing you could be a hollywood c grade scrpt writer

i could be used to spice up a lame script

—-

Agree ;)

roughbarked said:

According to Interpol reports, last year across the globe passengers boarded planes more than a billion times without having their passports screened against its Stolen and Lost Travel Documents database.

Well there’s a lot of third world places where it’s probably too difficult and costly.

Still no discovery. Are they looking in the wrong place ?

I wonder if the pilot dropped below radar coverage and did a runner with the plane…

Stealth said:

I wonder if the pilot dropped below radar coverage and did a runner with the plane…

One theory that has been discussed in the papers ( who know everything) is pilot suicide. Wouldn’t be the first time apparently.

rumpole said:

Still no discovery. Are they looking in the wrong place ?

stumpy_seahorse said:

rumpole said:

Still no discovery. Are they looking in the wrong place ?

Is he a Scientologist?

It wouldn’t be the first time if they find it’s been shot down by a missile, either accidentally or deliberately.

Vincenze, Korean Air 007…

Stealth said:

I wonder if the pilot dropped below radar coverage and did a runner with the plane…

They’re dead Dave. They’re all dead.

Ian said:

Stealth said:

I wonder if the pilot dropped below radar coverage and did a runner with the plane…

They’re dead Dave. They’re all dead.

I know Qantas is desperate to stay in business but………………..??

Looks like it could be possible that the pilot did turn the plane around and dropped off the radar?

rumpole said:

It wouldn’t be the first time if they find it’s been shot down by a missile, either accidentally or deliberately.

Vincenze, Korean Air 007…

You would still expect to find wreckage.

Stealth said:

rumpole said:

It wouldn’t be the first time if they find it’s been shot down by a missile, either accidentally or deliberately.

Vincenze, Korean Air 007…

You would still expect to find wreckage.

Yes, as long as you are looking in the right place.

the aircraft was carrying gold bullion to china, the pilots were in on a heist that stole the gold bullion, they switched off the transponder and then flew low level to a designated landing spot. en route the plane crashed hundreds of kilometres where the aircraft was mean to be.

wookiemeister said:

the aircraft was carrying gold bullion to china, the pilots were in on a heist that stole the gold bullion, they switched off the transponder and then flew low level to a designated landing spot. en route the plane crashed hundreds of kilometres where the aircraft was mean to be.

no, the real reason the plane disappeared is that the plane was carrying CIA agents

NO It WAs MOSssaD!><#@ AfTER teH GOLD Au!@#$>

They need to transmit back box data back to the airline

All passports need to be checked with the stolen list in real time

CrazyNeutrino said:

wookiemeister said:

the aircraft was carrying gold bullion to china, the pilots were in on a heist that stole the gold bullion, they switched off the transponder and then flew low level to a designated landing spot. en route the plane crashed hundreds of kilometres where the aircraft was mean to be.

no, the real reason the plane disappeared is that the plane was carrying CIA agents

it was carrying people that someone wanted dead

go back to the scene of the crime – the airport

wookiemeister said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

wookiemeister said:

the aircraft was carrying gold bullion to china, the pilots were in on a heist that stole the gold bullion, they switched off the transponder and then flew low level to a designated landing spot. en route the plane crashed hundreds of kilometres where the aircraft was mean to be.

no, the real reason the plane disappeared is that the plane was carrying CIA agents

it was carrying people that someone wanted dead

Maybe Kim Jong un thought it was cake and ate it

wookiemeister said:

go back to the scene of the crime – the airport

but the plane isnt there anymore

?

wookiemeister said:

go back to the scene of the crime – the airport

Ok you have the lead in the investigation, a team has been dispatched to the airport, what are your instructions?

wookiemeister said:

go back to the scene of the crime – the airport

that may be the secondary or even tertiary scene…

there was something on years ago about an additive to the oil in jet engines, it seeps into the air con of aircraft and then incapacitates the crew and passengers

there was an incident where the pilot/ co pilot were incapacitated for a few minutes due to this

perhaps there was a leak and things went wrong.

if the aircraft turned back – why?

was it told to turn back – someone was onboard that they wanted back at the airport

they felt that they couldn’t make it across the ocean, wouldn’t it make sense to head for land rather than more ocean?

the aircraft had been hacked and the control systems shut down?

there was something on years ago about an additive to the oil in jet engines, it seeps into the air con of aircraft and then incapacitates the crew and passengers

there was an incident where the pilot/ co pilot were incapacitated for a few minutes due to this

perhaps there was a leak and things went wrong.

if the aircraft turned back – why?

was it told to turn back – someone was onboard that they wanted back at the airport

they felt that they couldn’t make it across the ocean, wouldn’t it make sense to head for land rather than more ocean?

the aircraft had been hacked and the control systems shut down?

CrazyNeutrino said:

wookiemeister said:

go back to the scene of the crime – the airport

but the plane isnt there anymore

?

no start at the very beginning and work forward

interview the engineers working on the aircraft – see what they have to say about it

CrazyNeutrino said:

wookiemeister said:

go back to the scene of the crime – the airport

but the plane isnt there anymore

?

no start at the very beginning and work forward

interview the engineers working on the aircraft – see what they have to say about it

Skunkworks said:

wookiemeister said:

go back to the scene of the crime – the airport

Ok you have the lead in the investigation, a team has been dispatched to the airport, what are your instructions?

interview everyone with any connection with the aircraft

collect all info and let it be sifted through by 2 teams

you need to see if team A and team B come up with the same conclusions

you talk to the staff collecting tickets – was there anything unusual, incongruous? it could even be something as odd as noticing a pair of daggy shoes – we want to know anything and everything the staff noticed before boarding

go back to view ALL footage before boarding and see who people interacted with

interview the maintenance crew – is there a saboteur that might have brought down the aircraft over pay

interview the families of the crew – are they happy , sad – how are they reacting? are these families in financial trouble?

are all of the staff at the airport still available?

are some of them missing as well

you have to send some of your more perceptive staff to the airport to do a scratch sniff test on the staff at the airport

part of the problem is that everyone wants answers.. NOW.. and investigations take time…

but it must be agonising for the families involved… If I were them I’d be avoiding all kinds of media – social or otherwise

the real answer might boil down to – PILOT ERROR

phone records – call up the NSA tell them you want the phone records for that day

look at all the calls from the aircraft itself/ SMS

look at all calls /SMS at the time the aircraft disappeared

conceivably it might be a terror thing gone wrong, it blew up too early and they were not ready to issue demands so they made a choice, now that they know it works, to refine the method. I would think if you ring an hour after the even, unless you have something compelling you end in a line with all the other groups claiming credit.

What if this happened? They tracked this one as it was over land but if it happened in one of those radar dead spots over water then the plane could have went anywhere, particularly if it was turning…

Skunkworks said:

conceivably it might be a terror thing gone wrong, it blew up too early and they were not ready to issue demands so they made a choice, now that they know it works, to refine the method. I would think if you ring an hour after the even, unless you have something compelling you end in a line with all the other groups claiming credit.

the airline might have been receiving messages demanding money or they would blow up one of their aircraft?

this is why I still say go back to the scene of the crime and see what shakes out the tree

furious said:

What if this happened? They tracked this one as it was over land but if it happened in one of those radar dead spots over water then the plane could have went anywhere, particularly if it was turning…

its possible

this happened on an Olympic airways aircraft that crashed in Greece not so long ago

a passenger managed to get to the controls but with no available oxygen and not being a trained a pilot crashed the aircraft anyway (he was in training)

this problem might be picked up by interviewing engineering crews who would dish the dirt

furious said:

What if this happened? They tracked this one as it was over land but if it happened in one of those radar dead spots over water then the plane could have went anywhere, particularly if it was turning…

I was just thinking about that one too…

it might have had the same mishap as commercial aircraft heading to military zones in WA

signals from military installations have played merry havoc with the brains of the aircraft and downed it

wookiemeister said:

it might have had the same mishap as commercial aircraft heading to military zones in WA

signals from military installations have played merry havoc with the brains of the aircraft and downed it

No.

North Korea decided they needed an example of a modern jet they could copy, so they paid the pilots to fly to NK. The passengers are being held prisoner (or have been killed), and the plane is being taken apart in a hanger right now.

Augustt 2005, a Malaysia Airlines 777 – the same model aircraft that is missing feared crashed – suddenly pitched up “violently” into a 3000-foot climb that almost forced it into an aerodynamic stall.

A flight attendant began praying and another dropped a tray of drinks while pilots fought the autopilot system, which was being corrupted by a software error.

An investigation by regulators determined the aircraft’s “air data inertial reference unit” (ADIRU) – a device that sends data to the flight computer and autopilot – malfunctioned.

It was discovered that more than 500 Boeing 777s, flown by airlines around the world, had been operating for more than seven years with the error that could cause the autopilot malfunction.

US regulator the Federal Aviation Authority was concerned enough about the incident to issue an “airworthiness directive” for the inspection of all aircraft.

Boeing said yesterday it was not in a position to comment on any possible causes behind the loss of the Malaysian Airlines 777 on Saturday, but last night it announced it would join the US National Transportation Safety Board as a technical adviser. “The team is now en route to the area so they will be positioned to offer assistance,” Boeing said.

Following the aircraft’s disappearance, reports have emerged of flight tracking software noting the aircraft rapidly lost altitude before losing signal.

In 2008 – this time involving an Airbus A330-303 aircraft – Qantas flight 72 between Singapore and Perth had an ADIRU malfunction in which the autopilot twice instructed the plane to pitch down steeply.

During the violent rollercoaster ride, more than 100 of the flight’s 303 passengers were injured, with more than 50 requiring hospitalisation after the plane made an emergency landing at the Learmonth air force base near Exmouth in Western Australia.

The managing director of the Association of Asia Pacific Airlines, Andrew Herdman, said Malaysian Airlines operated in accordance with the “highest international standards”.

“The safety performance of Asian airlines is in line with the overall industry performance,” he said. Mr Herdman said the “hull loss rate” – where an aircraft is destroyed in an accident – for large Western-built commercial jets was continuously improving and now at one in three million flights.

Malaysia Airline’s last fatal accident was almost 20 years ago, in September 1995, when 34 people were killed when a Fokker 50 aircraft crashed in Malaysia.

The aircraft that went missing on Saturday was a Boeing 777-200ER, which Malaysian Airlines had bought new in May 2002.

That same model aircraft, operated by Asiana Airlines, crashed in July last year while landing at San Francisco.

Three people were killed and pilot error was blamed.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/past-boeing-777-autopilot-problems-raised/story-e6frg95×-1226849686432#

1st time : happenchance

2nd time coincidence

3rd time: confirmed enemy action

When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.

rumpole said:

Stealth said:

rumpole said:

It wouldn’t be the first time if they find it’s been shot down by a missile, either accidentally or deliberately.

Vincenze, Korean Air 007…

You would still expect to find wreckage.

Yes, as long as you are looking in the right place.

Well with a missile strike you would expect the right place to be very near where it disappeared off the radar.

Stealth said:

rumpole said:

Stealth said:

You would still expect to find wreckage.

Yes, as long as you are looking in the right place.

Well with a missile strike you would expect the right place to be very near where it disappeared off the radar.

Any mid-air explosion be it by missile or other, would leave a lot of smaller bits of debris scattered over kilometres.

roughbarked said:

Any mid-air explosion be it by missile or other, would leave a lot of smaller bits of debris scattered over kilometres.

While not submitting to the theory in any way, what’s to say this is not the case? It is a big ocean.

BTW, a post I found elsewhere.

A plausible explanation…

Like many people, I’ve been following the events surrounding the loss of the Malaysian B777 with great interest.
I rarely offer any theories, conjecture, or ideas relating to aircraft accidents, mainly because there are simply too many things to consider, and often, too many unknowns. Most often I find it in very poor taste to come up with some short sighted offing before we know anything about what really happened. I very much hate to jump to conclusions.

The media the past few days has been inundated with “experts”, pundits, and just goofy conspiracy theorist coming up with all kinds of ideas all over the map. In the end, they all say they have absolutely no clue as to what could have gone wrong.
As much as I hate to speculate… I feel as a professional pilot, and Captain on the B777, I can offer a very plausible explanation based on my experience in the B777 aircraft, and in the aviation industry, to help quell unsubstantiated rumors, and just outright falsehoods being disseminated in the media.

Seems we need to have a boogeyman to fear… so the terrorism angle gets a lot of play. VERY often on our flights we get passengers with false or incorrect documents… and they are off-loaded before we leave the gate. Occasionally somebody gets by, and they are stopped at immigration at the landing airport, and are summarily sent back to where they came from. It happens.
In the Southeast Asia area, there is an enormous amount of drug trafficking, (a good portion going to China from Thailand) and the current 2 suspects seem to me to fit the bill as nothing more than “mules” running drugs and taking advantage of the 72 hour free visa option when entering China with follow on tickets to other destinations. (In this case the passengers had tickets to Amsterdam and follow-on to Copenhagen and Frankfurt). By utilizing this visa option, they are able to slip into China and “get lost”… and never utilize their “follow-on flights… it’s just a matter of getting the pay… and making their way back to Thailand (or where ever). Make sense? It happens everyday…

As for the aircraft. The B777 is a great airplane, but occasionally things go wrong! I would direct you to an event that occurred in July of 2011 in Cairo, Egypt. Again, a B777-200 while boarding the final passengers, an electrical short resulted in the heating of an oxygen hose and burst into an uncontrolled fire in the cockpit. The cockpit was destroyed in a matter of minutes, though thankfully the plane being on the ground… the passengers were evacuated… and only minimal injuries where incurred.

The following link will direct you to an article on the event, with pictures and explanations…

http://avherald.com/h?article=44078aa7/0000

A sobering comment can be found at the bottom of the page as a “latest comment”.

Much has been speculated as to why no radio call was made…. with the noisy environment inside the cockpit, it’s doubtful anyone would hear an initial “pop” as they did in the Egypt Air ground incident…. so it could be assumed that there was a great possibility an intense and uncontrolled fire could have started and consumed the cockpit in a matter of seconds.

All the communication interfaces we have on the B777 are located within arms reach of us… and in an intense fire, would be completely disabled within a matter of minutes…if not seconds. (refer to the pictures in the article) Transponders (the box that sends ATC our position) would be rendered useless, thus… NO ATC could see the aircraft as it diverted or fell from altitude. ACARS (our “text message” system that we communicate to the ground with… and sends vital aircraft information to the company), would be useless and thus no messages about the aircraft system status’s would be available to transmit. And lastly, trying to make a radio call when all of a sudden the cockpit burst into flames???? Remember, it was 3 AM in the morning… probably quiet from a work standpoint… and most of the time we just fight to stay awake on these late night flights! Imagine how startled you’d be if something like this occurred? Another scenario would be that perhaps there was only one pilot in the cockpit at the time, and the other had gone to the restroom, etc.
The First Officer on the Malaysian flight was a VERY inexperienced cadet pilot….. yes, I fly with them all the time to here at XXXX, and it’s a “less than desirable” situation. But it happens all the time, and in this case, the FO only had 2700 hours…. if he was in the cockpit and something catastrophic happened… who knows the outcome?? (Just a thought)

IF… and IF… a scenario like this was to play out, it would offer a very plausible explanation as to what could have occurred, and also explain why no radio calls where made… or ACARS messages sent, or ATC radar contact, etc. It would also explain that if both pilots were subdued, or forced to evacuate the cockpit, the aircraft could have flown for any number of minutes or hours for that matter (based on the fuel available) in ANY DIFFERENT DIRECTION, until fuel starvation, or autopilot failure.

ATC in this part of the world does NOT have the capability to monitor “raw (radar) targets” with any reliability…(nor does ATC in the US for that matter) and furthermore, an aircraft, basically invisible to radar heading out into the wild blue sea would be very difficult, if ever to be found. It all depends on when the autopilot would fail.

I’m not saying this is what happened to the ill fated Malaysian aircraft, but it is a very plausible explanation, and I’m appalled that the so-called experts are scratching their collective heads and haven’t offered this as a possible explanation.
There are other possibilities…. but because of a limited history of this type problem in the past with the 777 (and other Boeing aircraft)… there is always the possibility that it could occur again… and perhaps in this case… while inflight.

The rush to jump on the terrorism band wagon I believe is ill-advised… and though it should be explored, is probably a wild goose chase based on the ever ongoing drug trade that utilizes these routes all to often…..

There are very few things in the B777 that can get you in a big heap of trouble in a hurry… the explanation and example given above is just one of very few.

I hope this adds to your insight of potential explanations…

Now… back to watching the “experts” scratch their heads….

Capt. Tom

Carmen_Sandiego said:

roughbarked said:

Any mid-air explosion be it by missile or other, would leave a lot of smaller bits of debris scattered over kilometres.

While not submitting to the theory in any way, what’s to say this is not the case? It is a big ocean.

Because some debris would float?

Catastrophic equipment failures have been mentioned by the ‘experts’ on TV.

roughbarked said:

Carmen_Sandiego said:

roughbarked said:

Any mid-air explosion be it by missile or other, would leave a lot of smaller bits of debris scattered over kilometres.

While not submitting to the theory in any way, what’s to say this is not the case? It is a big ocean.

Because some debris would float?

…and? Again, it is a big ocean.

Carmen_Sandiego said:

roughbarked said:

Carmen_Sandiego said:

While not submitting to the theory in any way, what’s to say this is not the case? It is a big ocean.

Because some debris would float?

…and? Again, it is a big ocean.

All true.

Carmen_Sandiego said:

The rush to jump on the terrorism band wagon I believe is ill-advised… and though it should be explored, is probably a wild goose chase based on the ever ongoing drug trade that utilizes these routes all to often…..

I have read the news on this daily and I am sure there is no rush to jump to terrorism in the mainstream. Lack of organisations credibly taking credit has ensured that. The agents of woo have different theories but for them it is mostly the CIA as the terrorist.

Somehow I think the terrorism angle is disappearing over the horizon as fast as it popped up.

I agree. No claim of responsibility means the likelihood of terrorism is low.

It’s interesting that the (now known to be) Iranian man travelling on one of the dodgy passports was flying to Frankfurt, where his mother was expecting to meet him. That reduces the possibility that he was about to blow the plane up or do some other nefarious act. He bought his ticket along with the other person known to have a dodgy passport. Perhaps they were refugees escaping Iran, using dodgy passports to get into Europe.

It appears that one of the Chinese passports was dodgy, too.

Carmen_Sandiego said:

roughbarked said:

Carmen_Sandiego said:

While not submitting to the theory in any way, what’s to say this is not the case? It is a big ocean.

Because some debris would float?

…and? Again, it is a big ocean.

Osama bin laden is out there – somewhere

allegedly

wookiemeister said:

Carmen_Sandiego said:

roughbarked said:

Because some debris would float?

…and? Again, it is a big ocean.

Osama bin laden is out there – somewhere

allegedly

So he reached out and up and plucked the infidels out of the sky, dragging them down to share the anonymity of the depths with him?

Interesting graphic:

Carmen_Sandiego said:

Interesting graphic:

!http://www.washingtonpost.com/rw/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2014/03/11/Foreign/Graphics/MalaysiaRange.jpg

Thanks. First graphic I have seen that shows the Great Circle flight path instead of a straight line. Good on them for that. All the others have shown a straight line between Kuala Lumpur and Beijing.

It’s interesting to see how large the area is, where it might potentially have gone.

Michael V said:

Carmen_Sandiego said:

Interesting graphic:

!http://www.washingtonpost.com/rw/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2014/03/11/Foreign/Graphics/MalaysiaRange.jpg

Thanks. First graphic I have seen that shows the Great Circle flight path instead of a straight line. Good on them for that. All the others have shown a straight line between Kuala Lumpur and Beijing.

It’s interesting to see how large the area is, where it might potentially have gone.

If what the Malaysian Military indicated is correct then the search area suddenly becomes very large indeed.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/2014/03/12/04/58/military-radar-tracked-missing-jet-flying-off-course

The search for the missing Malaysia Airlines jet has been significantly widened after it was revealed a military radar tracked the airliner making a U-turn and flying over the Malacca Strait before it disappeared on Saturday, according to reports.

Malaysian newspaper Berita Harian quoted the country’s air force chief General Rodzali Daud as saying radar at a military base had detected flight MH370 about 2.40am near Pulau Perak, at the northern approach to the strait.

Wasn’t going to North Korea then…

poikilotherm said:

Wasn’t going to North Korea then…

apparently not.

poikilotherm said:

Wasn’t going to North Korea then…

was getting away from those missiles.

Carmen_Sandiego said:

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/2014/03/12/04/58/military-radar-tracked-missing-jet-flying-off-course

The search for the missing Malaysia Airlines jet has been significantly widened after it was revealed a military radar tracked the airliner making a U-turn and flying over the Malacca Strait before it disappeared on Saturday, according to reports.

Malaysian newspaper Berita Harian quoted the country’s air force chief General Rodzali Daud as saying radar at a military base had detected flight MH370 about 2.40am near Pulau Perak, at the northern approach to the strait.

This turned back and U turn talk is starting to annoy me, what the military are saying is that after it ‘dissapeared’ they continued to track it on their radar, it turned West, went over the Malay Peninsular and finally disappeared from their radar over the Malacca Strait, I don’t know where the U turn thing came from.

no one knows my lord.. no one.

Peak Warming Man said:

This turned back and U turn talk is starting to annoy me, what the military are saying is that after it ‘dissapeared’ they continued to track it on their radar, it turned West, went over the Malay Peninsular and finally disappeared from their radar over the Malacca Strait, I don’t know where the U turn thing came from.

The only thing I can think of, if all that happened, is that there was a serious problem on the plane and the crew decided to try to turn back to get to the closest airport.
Then they didn’t make it.

Spiny Norman said:

Peak Warming Man said:

This turned back and U turn talk is starting to annoy me, what the military are saying is that after it ‘dissapeared’ they continued to track it on their radar, it turned West, went over the Malay Peninsular and finally disappeared from their radar over the Malacca Strait, I don’t know where the U turn thing came from.

The only thing I can think of, if all that happened, is that there was a serious problem on the plane and the crew decided to try to turn back to get to the closest airport.
Then they didn’t make it.

Then why no communications at all?

98 pages and there is still no consensus here.. http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/535538-malaysian-airlines-mh370-contact-lost-98.html

Peak Warming Man said:

Carmen_Sandiego said:

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/2014/03/12/04/58/military-radar-tracked-missing-jet-flying-off-course

The search for the missing Malaysia Airlines jet has been significantly widened after it was revealed a military radar tracked the airliner making a U-turn and flying over the Malacca Strait before it disappeared on Saturday, according to reports.

Malaysian newspaper Berita Harian quoted the country’s air force chief General Rodzali Daud as saying radar at a military base had detected flight MH370 about 2.40am near Pulau Perak, at the northern approach to the strait.

This turned back and U turn talk is starting to annoy me, what the military are saying is that after it ‘dissapeared’ they continued to track it on their radar, it turned West, went over the Malay Peninsular and finally disappeared from their radar over the Malacca Strait, I don’t know where the U turn thing came from.

Ok, fine, it chucked a 3 pointer and went another way.

poikilotherm said:

Peak Warming Man said:

Carmen_Sandiego said:

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/2014/03/12/04/58/military-radar-tracked-missing-jet-flying-off-course

The search for the missing Malaysia Airlines jet has been significantly widened after it was revealed a military radar tracked the airliner making a U-turn and flying over the Malacca Strait before it disappeared on Saturday, according to reports.

Malaysian newspaper Berita Harian quoted the country’s air force chief General Rodzali Daud as saying radar at a military base had detected flight MH370 about 2.40am near Pulau Perak, at the northern approach to the strait.

This turned back and U turn talk is starting to annoy me, what the military are saying is that after it ‘dissapeared’ they continued to track it on their radar, it turned West, went over the Malay Peninsular and finally disappeared from their radar over the Malacca Strait, I don’t know where the U turn thing came from.

Ok, fine, it chucked a 3 pointer and went another way.

In the horizontal plane it did only chuck a left turn, but in the vertical plane it did. U turn and flew the next segment inverted…

roughbarked said:

Spiny Norman said:

The only thing I can think of, if all that happened, is that there was a serious problem on the plane and the crew decided to try to turn back to get to the closest airport.
Then they didn’t make it.

Then why no communications at all?

The hijackers cut the phone lines.

Eye witnesses saw a bright light fall from the sky days ago

What if the plane entered cloud obscuring forward view and hit a large weather balloon?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-12/malaysian-military-denies-detecting-missing-plane/5314212

The Malaysian air force has denied reports a passenger plane that vanished with 239 people on board was detected on radar far west of its flight path.

I was a little suspect of the origin of the claim.

CrazyNeutrino said:

What if the plane entered cloud obscuring forward view and hit a large weather balloon?

.

Nah I recon the ‘plane was matter transported to their home world, “Planet X” where their brains will be sucked out, and their sperm and ovum used in exotic drinks.

where there any weather balloons in the area at that height?

could one be large enough to have its fabric/ material sucked into both engines

that’s if it was obscured by clouds

CrazyNeutrino said:

where there any weather balloons in the area at that height?

could one be large enough to have its fabric/ material sucked into both engines

that’s if it was obscured by clouds

That would make it crash, not disappear.

Carmen_Sandiego said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

where there any weather balloons in the area at that height?

could one be large enough to have its fabric/ material sucked into both engines

that’s if it was obscured by clouds

That would make it crash, not disappear.

but would it

Im thinking it would just nose dive

CrazyNeutrino said:

Carmen_Sandiego said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

where there any weather balloons in the area at that height?

could one be large enough to have its fabric/ material sucked into both engines

that’s if it was obscured by clouds

That would make it crash, not disappear.

but would it

Im thinking it would just nose dive

if the plane was in a nose dive, maybe that would help explain a few things

like disappearing off the radar, no time for radio etc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNZtz-HVy6c&feature=youtube

Re kink, another nutter….

Essentially there can be many reason for the disappearance but we won’t know anything until we get some facts. The media is rife with speculation and frankly cannot be trusted to accurate report that the sun has risen.

I figure that – if the aircraft crashed into the water – it will be another week or so before we get a confirmed sighting of wreckage. Any bodies will be, about now, generating internal gases and be floating to the surface. It is anyone’s guess if they remain on the surface long enough to be sighted or if local predators will be having some snacks.

It could of had of had been grabbed by a tractor beam from a Klingon Warbird that decloaked off it’s starboard beam.
But that’s just idle speculation as well, we probably wont know for sure for some time.

Another potential source of failure that could fit the observations.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/missing-malaysia-airlines-plane-us-issued-warnings-over-boeing-777s-20140312-hvhqz.html

Peak Warming Man said:

It could of had of had been grabbed by a tractor beam from a Klingon Warbird that decloaked off it’s starboard beam.
But that’s just idle speculation as well, we probably wont know for sure for some time.

I had speculated a Klingon Warbird crashed into the plane while the warbird was cloaked

I dont know Klingon for “opps”

CrazyNeutrino said:

Peak Warming Man said:

It could of had of had been grabbed by a tractor beam from a Klingon Warbird that decloaked off it’s starboard beam.
But that’s just idle speculation as well, we probably wont know for sure for some time.

I had speculated a Klingon Warbird crashed into the plane while the warbird was cloaked

I dont know Klingon for “opps”

nuQ – (bother)

I wonder if it’s possible, with the technology available today, to solve this mystery comprehensively, without ever locating the wreckage or any debris or bodies.

Investigating the passengers, crew, aircraft maintenance etc and all available radar data, as they are doing, is it possible they could determine exactly what happened?

Skeptic Pete said:

I wonder if it’s possible, with the technology available today, to solve this mystery comprehensively, without ever locating the wreckage or any debris or bodies.

Investigating the passengers, crew, aircraft maintenance etc and all available radar data, as they are doing, is it possible they could determine exactly what happened?

it’s all a publicity stunt for the next series of ‘Lost’

Mr Babe has come up with a “theory”

His theory is that the plane was escorted by the military and is currently sitting fat dumb and happy at a military airbase.

However, this is all just speculation (obviously) – but i figured that alive is better than dead by any stretch of the imagination.

I’m speculating again that the plane is at the bottom of the ocean

The Malaysians have royally fucked this up and are now desperately arse covering in front of really pissed off Chinese

Carmen_Sandiego said:

Another potential source of failure that could fit the observations.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/missing-malaysia-airlines-plane-us-issued-warnings-over-boeing-777s-20140312-hvhqz.html

Yes, yes it could.

It is quite possible, as CN says, that it sits on the bottom somewhere. I still say it will be about 7 – 10 days before we start to get signs of wreckage.

Peak Warming Man said:

It could of had of had been grabbed by a tractor beam from a Klingon Warbird that decloaked off it’s starboard beam.
But that’s just idle speculation as well, we probably wont know for sure for some time.

Get it right PWM – off the starboard bow!

Obviousman said:

It is quite possible, as CN says, that it sits on the bottom somewhere. I still say it will be about 7 – 10 days before we start to get signs of wreckage.

There should be wreckage now, however the search area includes the mallaca straits which are some of the busiest shipping lanes in the world – full of all sorts of floating rubbish …

Dropbear said:

Obviousman said:

It is quite possible, as CN says, that it sits on the bottom somewhere. I still say it will be about 7 – 10 days before we start to get signs of wreckage.

There should be wreckage now, however the search area includes the mallaca straits which are some of the busiest shipping lanes in the world – full of all sorts of floating rubbish …

Although, Malaysian Military now reckons…no it didn’t.

poikilotherm said:

Dropbear said:

Obviousman said:

It is quite possible, as CN says, that it sits on the bottom somewhere. I still say it will be about 7 – 10 days before we start to get signs of wreckage.

There should be wreckage now, however the search area includes the mallaca straits which are some of the busiest shipping lanes in the world – full of all sorts of floating rubbish …

Although, Malaysian Military now reckons…no it didn’t.

Malaysian military is both incompetent and corrupt

poikilotherm said:

Dropbear said:

Obviousman said:

It is quite possible, as CN says, that it sits on the bottom somewhere. I still say it will be about 7 – 10 days before we start to get signs of wreckage.

There should be wreckage now, however the search area includes the mallaca straits which are some of the busiest shipping lanes in the world – full of all sorts of floating rubbish …

Although, Malaysian Military now reckons…no it didn’t.

They could change their minds again

Dropbear said:

poikilotherm said:

Dropbear said:

There should be wreckage now, however the search area includes the mallaca straits which are some of the busiest shipping lanes in the world – full of all sorts of floating rubbish …

Although, Malaysian Military now reckons…no it didn’t.

Malaysian military is both incompetent and corrupt

steady on old boy

poikilotherm said:

Dropbear said:

Obviousman said:

It is quite possible, as CN says, that it sits on the bottom somewhere. I still say it will be about 7 – 10 days before we start to get signs of wreckage.

There should be wreckage now, however the search area includes the mallaca straits which are some of the busiest shipping lanes in the world – full of all sorts of floating rubbish …

Although, Malaysian Military now reckons…no it didn’t.

Yeah, hard to figure out what happened there.

Skunkworks said:

poikilotherm said:

Dropbear said:

There should be wreckage now, however the search area includes the mallaca straits which are some of the busiest shipping lanes in the world – full of all sorts of floating rubbish …

Although, Malaysian Military now reckons…no it didn’t.

Yeah, hard to figure out what happened there.

It is possible that some countries do not want other countries in the region to know that they have surveillance radar out to that distance / altitude. Just a guess.

Obviousman said:

Skunkworks said:

poikilotherm said:

Although, Malaysian Military now reckons…no it didn’t.

Yeah, hard to figure out what happened there.

It is possible that some countries do not want other countries in the region to know that they have surveillance radar out to that distance / altitude. Just a guess.

I was thinking that but as a counter brag, they were claiming they saw something to big up capability but then it got away from them. Or maybe just a junior numpty was telling lies.

Obviousman said:

Skunkworks said:

poikilotherm said:

Although, Malaysian Military now reckons…no it didn’t.

Yeah, hard to figure out what happened there.

It is possible that some countries do not want other countries in the region to know that they have surveillance radar out to that distance / altitude. Just a guess.

I was actually thinking about that the other day, and whether Jindalee could have come into play.

full of all sorts of floating rubbish …
—————————————————————

FFS get it right… this is a science forum, it’s Flotsam and Jetsam.

In new news they have been unable to locate the missing plane because they are looking in the wrong place.

I know that helps.

Mr Ironic said:

full of all sorts of floating rubbish …
—————————————————————

FFS get it right… this is a science forum, it’s Flotsam and Jetsam.

In new news they have been unable to locate the missing plane because they are looking in the wrong place.

I know that helps.

Excellent, it’s Jets they are looking for. Shouldn’t be long now.

Mr Ironic said:

full of all sorts of floating rubbish …
—————————————————————

FFS get it right… this is a science forum, it’s Flotsam and Jetsam.

In new news they have been unable to locate the missing plane because they are looking in the wrong place.

I know that helps.

With respect, it would only be flotsam. Jetsam is stuff deliberately cast overboard, which I don’t think would have happened.

Mr Ironic said:

full of all sorts of floating rubbish …
—————————————————————

FFS get it right… this is a science forum, it’s Flotsam and Jetsam.

In new news they have been unable to locate the missing plane because they are looking in the wrong place.

I know that helps.

This is a holiday forum, go fuck your own face…

Floating rubbish/debris works just fine

And I know that helps

Dropbear said:

This is a holiday forum, go fuck your own face…

Not sure it is, the first page says “The Holiday Forum is not about going on holiday!”

Skunkworks said:

Dropbear said:

This is a holiday forum, go fuck your own face…

Not sure it is, the first page says “The Holiday Forum is not about going on holiday!”

And yet here we are :)

I’m not on holiday. I’m in Sid-a-knee.

This is a holiday forum, go fuck your own face…

—-

you could’ve just said “fa q”
tsk

Michael V said:

I’m not on holiday. I’m in Sid-a-knee.

and the winner is Sid-a-knee

Michael V said:

I’m not on holiday. I’m in Sid-a-knee.

You know, one of these days that joke is going to get old.

Just saying.

This is a holiday forum, go fuck your own face…
————————————————

Tourettes thread… five down.

sibeen said:

Michael V said:

I’m not on holiday. I’m in Sid-a-knee.

You know, one of these days that joke is going to get old.

Just saying.

Just like me, you reckon?

With respect, it would only be flotsam. Jetsam is stuff deliberately cast overboard, which I don’t think would have happened.
————————————————

not to press a point…

But it is hard to tell Jetsom from flostsam in “some of the busiest shipping lanes in the world “

Mr Ironic said:

With respect, it would only be flotsam. Jetsam is stuff deliberately cast overboard, which I don’t think would have happened.
————————————————

not to press a point…

But it is hard to tell Jetsom from flostsam in “some of the busiest shipping lanes in the world “

Not if it’s an airy plane.

>>Jetsam is stuff deliberately cast overboard, which I don’t think would have happened.<<

Not that I would know about this stuff, but……it’s a known way of doing a drug drop off the coast here.

Not if it’s an airy plane.
—————————————-

Well I am presuming the break up of the plane would not still leave it in the shape of a plane…

buffy said:

>>Jetsam is stuff deliberately cast overboard, which I don’t think would have happened.<<

Not that I would know about this stuff, but……it’s a known way of doing a drug drop off the coast here.

Using drones now as well which I thought was nice. Once drones become autonomous or preprogramed it will be hard for the cops to find the originator.

buffy said:

>>Jetsam is stuff deliberately cast overboard, which I don’t think would have happened.<<

Not that I would know about this stuff, but……it’s a known way of doing a drug drop off the coast here.

—-

Oh…….the boat…….no wonder you don’t want to know about it…..

Hopes that Chinese satellite had found MH370 dashed as US counter-terrorism officials investigate the terrifying possibility the plane was captured and flown to another country as it’s revealed it was airborne for FOUR more hours after it vanished

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2579524/Chinese-satellite-finds-suspected-crash-site-Malaysian-Airlines-flight-370-South-China-Sea-did-three-days-release-them.html#ixzz2vouZvG6P
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

wookiemeister said:

Hopes that Chinese satellite had found MH370 dashed as US counter-terrorism officials investigate the terrifying possibility the plane was captured and flown to another country as it’s revealed it was airborne for FOUR more hours after it vanished

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2579524/Chinese-satellite-finds-suspected-crash-site-Malaysian-Airlines-flight-370-South-China-Sea-did-three-days-release-them.html#ixzz2vouZvG6P
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

I thnk I mooted this in chat perhaps

if the plane was carrying gold the aircraft might have been commandeered by the pilots and flown to another destination

the aircraft might be sat on a runway somewhere

• US counter-terrorism officials investigate the terrifying possibility the plane was captured and flown to another country

It’s the Langoliers…

OK, now they are just taking the piss…

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/10/us-malaysia-airlines-idUSBREA291D520140310

The Malaysian passenger jet that disappeared on Saturday did not make automatic contact with a flight data-monitoring system after vanishing from radar screens, two people familiar with the matter said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/13/us-malaysia-airlines-usa-investigators-idUSBREA2C0B820140313

U.S. investigators suspect that Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 stayed in the air for about four hours past the time it reached its last confirmed location, the Wall Street Journal reported, citing two people familiar with the details.

…

Aviation investigators and national security officials believe the plane flew for a total of five hours based on data automatically downloaded and sent to the ground from the Boeing Co 777’s engines as part of a standard monitoring program, the Journal said.

>>>Aviation investigators and national security officials believe the plane flew for a total of five hours based on data automatically downloaded and sent to the ground from the Boeing Co 777’s engines as part of a standard monitoring program, the Journal said.

Rolls have trackers built in to their engines?

I think all the confusion is hiding something isn’t it

CrazyNeutrino said:

>>>Aviation investigators and national security officials believe the plane flew for a total of five hours based on data automatically downloaded and sent to the ground from the Boeing Co 777’s engines as part of a standard monitoring program, the Journal said.

Rolls have trackers built in to their engines?

I think all the confusion is hiding something isn’t it

Never rush for conspiracy when simple negligence fits

Dropbear said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

>>>Aviation investigators and national security officials believe the plane flew for a total of five hours based on data automatically downloaded and sent to the ground from the Boeing Co 777’s engines as part of a standard monitoring program, the Journal said.

Rolls have trackers built in to their engines?

I think all the confusion is hiding something isn’t it

Never rush for conspiracy when simple negligence fits

One report is saying that the system sends packets of data back to RR to monitor engine performance four times on a flight. During take off, ascent, level flight and landing.
Depending on who you listen to there were either two or three packets of data that were sent, but RR is saying noting.

Dropbear said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

>>>Aviation investigators and national security officials believe the plane flew for a total of five hours based on data automatically downloaded and sent to the ground from the Boeing Co 777’s engines as part of a standard monitoring program, the Journal said.

Rolls have trackers built in to their engines?

I think all the confusion is hiding something isn’t it

Never rush for conspiracy when simple negligence fits

Whoops! What I was meaning to say was…..not again! We’ve got to stop agreeing like this, Droppy.

:)

buffy said:

Whoops! What I was meaning to say was…..not again! We’ve got to stop agreeing like this, Droppy.

:)

People are going to start talking (more)!

buffy and dropbear sitting in a tree…

Arts said:

buffy and dropbear sitting in a tree…

Dropbears are notoriously unreliable tree sitters

Dropbear said:

Arts said:

buffy and dropbear sitting in a tree…

Dropbears are notoriously unreliable

fixed ;)

Floating rubbish/debris works just fine
————————————————————-

After some thought…

Yea it does.

I don’t know why ‘the computer’ interpreted my thoughts so uncompromising and lacking of any wit.

Mr Ironic said:

Floating rubbish/debris works just fine
————————————————————-

After some thought…

Yea it does.

I don’t know why ‘the computer’ interpreted my thoughts so uncompromising and lacking of any wit.

Floating rubbish is an entirely feasible hypothesis.

I, personally have machine-gunned 40-foot shipping containers, lost overboard from some ship or other.

The only two things we don’t know about this flight is where it is and how it got there.

>The only two things we don’t know about this flight is where it is and how it got there.

That it is somewhere and got there somehow though is a motivating starting point. Bit like finding the remote control you know.

Bit like finding the remote control you know.
———————————————————————————-

Hard to believe that everyone had their mobile phone turned off.

Really whats the point of having a Big Brother if he don’t know where you are…

Or were, as the case may be.

Peak Warming Man said:

The only two things we don’t know about this flight is where it is and how it got there.

I predict it ‘got there’ (wherever that turns out to be) by flying.

>Hard to believe that everyone had their mobile phone turned off.

what is this nonsense regards mobile phones, saw something while skim reading other day.

…that damned elusive pimpernel.

It is still relatively simple.

An aircraft has disappeared. Based on available evidence, it seems to have gone done in the South China Sea, cause unknown. Search units are looking for the location but have so far been unsuccessful.

The cause of the disappearance is unknown and any one of many theories could be correct. Only time will tell what is correct and wild speculation will do nothing to help the search nor comfort those who have loved ones aboard.

I could also add that the media is full of wild, inaccurate and / or untruthful speculation.

Mr buffy has a speculation. Oxygen deprivation leads to unconsciousness for all aboard, plane continues automatically until it runs out of fuel and falls out of the sky. Doesn’t explain why the transponder wasn’t sending, I don’t think they need oxygen. Don’t know if this could happen with a jet. Mr buffy says this has happened with a twin engine prop plane somewhere here in Australia, and he thinks it might have happened with a Learjet somewhere overseas.

But this could be one of his Tall Stories.

Obviousman said:

It is still relatively simple.

An aircraft has disappeared. Based on available evidence, it seems to have gone done in the South China Sea, cause unknown. Search units are looking for the location but have so far been unsuccessful.

The cause of the disappearance is unknown and any one of many theories could be correct. Only time will tell what is correct and wild speculation will do nothing to help the search nor comfort those who have loved ones aboard.

I could also add that the media is full of wild, inaccurate and / or untruthful speculation.

Not only the media.

I could also add that the media is full of wild, inaccurate and / or untruthful speculation.
—————————————————————————-

But of course ‘ any one of many theories could be correct’…

buffy said:

Mr buffy has a speculation. Oxygen deprivation leads to unconsciousness for all aboard, plane continues automatically until it runs out of fuel and falls out of the sky. Doesn’t explain why the transponder wasn’t sending, I don’t think they need oxygen. Don’t know if this could happen with a jet. Mr buffy says this has happened with a twin engine prop plane somewhere here in Australia, and he thinks it might have happened with a Learjet somewhere overseas.

But this could be one of his Tall Stories.

This one…

furious said:

What if this happened? They tracked this one as it was over land but if it happened in one of those radar dead spots over water then the plane could have went anywhere, particularly if it was turning…

buffy said:

Mr buffy has a speculation. Oxygen deprivation leads to unconsciousness for all aboard, plane continues automatically until it runs out of fuel and falls out of the sky. Doesn’t explain why the transponder wasn’t sending, I don’t think they need oxygen. Don’t know if this could happen with a jet. Mr buffy says this has happened with a twin engine prop plane somewhere here in Australia, and he thinks it might have happened with a Learjet somewhere overseas.

But this could be one of his Tall Stories.

he’s correct.

One left Perth, crashed in Qld.

buffy said:

Mr buffy has a speculation. Oxygen deprivation leads to unconsciousness for all aboard, plane continues automatically until it runs out of fuel and falls out of the sky. Doesn’t explain why the transponder wasn’t sending, I don’t think they need oxygen. Don’t know if this could happen with a jet. Mr buffy says this has happened with a twin engine prop plane somewhere here in Australia, and he thinks it might have happened with a Learjet somewhere overseas.

But this could be one of his Tall Stories.

It’s true, a private jet with some famous golfer lost oxygen over Australia and it flew on on auto pilot until it ran out of fuel and crashed.

I’d be surprised if both pilots would not be able to get their masks on and reduce altitude

Follow the yanks, they are now searching to the west, they have gone west.
They believe that the transponders were deliberately turned off, however packets of data from the plane were still being sent to satellites for up to 5 hours after, apparently.

If the telemetry was being transmitted for four hours after losing contact with ATC then a rapid decompression isn’t too far fetched… Don’t know how much fuel they had on board

buffy said:

Mr buffy has a speculation. Oxygen deprivation leads to unconsciousness for all aboard, plane continues automatically until it runs out of fuel and falls out of the sky. Doesn’t explain why the transponder wasn’t sending, I don’t think they need oxygen. Don’t know if this could happen with a jet. Mr buffy says this has happened with a twin engine prop plane somewhere here in Australia, and he thinks it might have happened with a Learjet somewhere overseas.

But this could be one of his Tall Stories.

Yes, the one overseas was a golfer. But I can’t recall his name right now.

party_pants said:

buffy said:

Mr buffy has a speculation. Oxygen deprivation leads to unconsciousness for all aboard, plane continues automatically until it runs out of fuel and falls out of the sky. Doesn’t explain why the transponder wasn’t sending, I don’t think they need oxygen. Don’t know if this could happen with a jet. Mr buffy says this has happened with a twin engine prop plane somewhere here in Australia, and he thinks it might have happened with a Learjet somewhere overseas.

But this could be one of his Tall Stories.

Yes, the one overseas was a golfer. But I can’t recall his name right now.

Payne Stewart?

• Yes, the one overseas was a golfer. But I can’t recall his name right now.

It happened to a bunch of miners…

Don’t know why I bother really…

buffy said:

Mr buffy has a speculation. Oxygen deprivation leads to unconsciousness for all aboard, plane continues automatically until it runs out of fuel and falls out of the sky. Doesn’t explain why the transponder wasn’t sending, I don’t think they need oxygen. Don’t know if this could happen with a jet. Mr buffy says this has happened with a twin engine prop plane somewhere here in Australia, and he thinks it might have happened with a Learjet somewhere overseas.

But this could be one of his Tall Stories.

There was a Commercial airliner (South American maybe). Was one of the recent ‘Air Crash Investigation’ TV programs.

Peak Warming Man said:

Follow the yanks, they are now searching to the west, they have gone west.
They believe that the transponders were deliberately turned off, however packets of data from the plane were still being sent to satellites for up to 5 hours after, apparently.

decompression wouldn’t turn off a transponder

transponder

gotta love the transponder

Dropbear said:

buffy said:

Mr buffy has a speculation. Oxygen deprivation leads to unconsciousness for all aboard, plane continues automatically until it runs out of fuel and falls out of the sky. Doesn’t explain why the transponder wasn’t sending, I don’t think they need oxygen. Don’t know if this could happen with a jet. Mr buffy says this has happened with a twin engine prop plane somewhere here in Australia, and he thinks it might have happened with a Learjet somewhere overseas.

But this could be one of his Tall Stories.

It’s true, a private jet with some famous golfer lost oxygen over Australia and it flew on on auto pilot until it ran out of fuel and crashed.

I’d be surprised if both pilots would not be able to get their masks on and reduce altitude

.

They both would get sleepy as the oxygen level dropped, went to sleep and possibly died due to anoxia, then crashed when fuel ran out.

furious said:

• Yes, the one overseas was a golfer. But I can’t recall his name right now.

It happened to a bunch of miners…

Don’t know why I bother really…

there there

Maybe the pilot fell on the transponder switch when he passed out :)

the telemetry after last atc radar plot, or whatever, has been said to be incorrect.

Stop standing up for Mr buffy!! He can’t always be right. He’s unbearable enough as it is!

jjjust moi said:

party_pants said:

buffy said:

Mr buffy has a speculation. Oxygen deprivation leads to unconsciousness for all aboard, plane continues automatically until it runs out of fuel and falls out of the sky. Doesn’t explain why the transponder wasn’t sending, I don’t think they need oxygen. Don’t know if this could happen with a jet. Mr buffy says this has happened with a twin engine prop plane somewhere here in Australia, and he thinks it might have happened with a Learjet somewhere overseas.

But this could be one of his Tall Stories.

Yes, the one overseas was a golfer. But I can’t recall his name right now.

Payne Stewart?

Bingo! Thanks, i was wracking my brane

Dropbear said:

Maybe the pilot fell on the transponder switch when he passed out :)

.
Pissabolity ‘spose

Mr buffy says thanks to Droppy.

furious said:

• Yes, the one overseas was a golfer. But I can’t recall his name right now.

It happened to a bunch of miners…

Don’t know why I bother really…

Okay. There was more than one. One of them was the golfer.

buffy said:

Mr buffy says thanks to Droppy.

Welcome… Buffy’s men need to stick together

buffy said:

Mr buffy says thanks to Droppy.

Except Droppy had it stuffed up.The golfer one was overseas.

I think it was a Beechcraft took off from Perth on a fairly short fifo trip, it didn’t land.

The plane was shadowed by another aicraft with no sign of life on board.

It ran out of fuel and crashed just inside Qld.

jjjust moi said:

The plane was shadowed by another aicraft with no sign of life on board.

A ghost plane.

• I think it was a Beechcraft took off from Perth on a fairly short fifo trip, it didn’t land.

FFS…

furious said:

• I think it was a Beechcraft took off from Perth on a fairly short fifo trip, it didn’t land.

FFS…

what?

jjjust moi said:

furious said:

• I think it was a Beechcraft took off from Perth on a fairly short fifo trip, it didn’t land.

FFS…

what?

Shes having a temper tangy that no one is listening to her

• what?

furious said:

buffy said:

Mr buffy has a speculation. Oxygen deprivation leads to unconsciousness for all aboard, plane continues automatically until it runs out of fuel and falls out of the sky. Doesn’t explain why the transponder wasn’t sending, I don’t think they need oxygen. Don’t know if this could happen with a jet. Mr buffy says this has happened with a twin engine prop plane somewhere here in Australia, and he thinks it might have happened with a Learjet somewhere overseas.

But this could be one of his Tall Stories.

This one…

furious said:

What if this happened? They tracked this one as it was over land but if it happened in one of those radar dead spots over water then the plane could have went anywhere, particularly if it was turning…

• Shes having a temper tangy that no one is listening to her

Yeah, good one…

buffy said:

Stop standing up for Mr buffy!! He can’t always be right. He’s unbearable enough as it is!

He happens to be male. That’s a problem in itself.

re the lack of oxygen, it happened to a famous musician type person in the USA Aaliyah (sp?) or some such, all onboard were unconscious, including the pilots, plane flew until the fuel ran out iirc.

Here is another example of a plane losing pressurisation and the aircrew not realising.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Airways_Flight_522

But as for this one, those “two sources” are at it again…

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370-deliberately-flown-towards-indias-andaman-islands-military-radar/story-fnizu68q-1226854092765

Carmen_Sandiego said:

Here is another example of a plane losing pressurisation and the aircrew not realising.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Airways_Flight_522

But as for this one, those “two sources” are at it again…

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370-deliberately-flown-towards-indias-andaman-islands-military-radar/story-fnizu68q-1226854092765

Apparently, Boeing has announced that: UPDATE: This theory may no longer be feasible as Boeing has confirmed that the MH370 777-200ER aircraft was not subject to the problems outlined in the Airworthiness Directive as it had a different layout from the 777 planes that were listed in the AD

from: http://www.lowyat.net/2014/03/was-there-a-problem-with-the-mh370-boeing-777-200-aircraft/

http://www.theage.com.au/world/new-twist-in-missing-malaysian-plane-mystery-raises-prospect-of-foul-play-20140315-hvizu.html

This is getting right up there with Taman Shud and the Voynich manuscript.

Is it possible that this type of aircraft could lose all electronics like navigation and radios, but still be flyable ? In which case they may have just got lost and flown around aimlessly until running out of fuel and crashing.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-15/malaysia-flight-may-have-run-out-of-fuel-over-indian-ocean/5323250

rumpole said:

Is it possible that this type of aircraft could lose all electronics like navigation and radios, but still be flyable ? In which case they may have just got lost and flown around aimlessly until running out of fuel and crashing.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-15/malaysia-flight-may-have-run-out-of-fuel-over-indian-ocean/5323250

I’m fairly sure they still have a magnetic compass.

Yet more unnamed sources.

http://m.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/world/malaysia-confirms-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370-was-hijacked/story-fni0xs63-1226855315871

INVESTIGATORS have concluded that one or more people with significant flying experience hijacked the missing Malaysia Airlines jet, switched off communication devices and steered it off-course, a Malaysian government official involved in the investigation said this afternoon.

The claim comes after seven days of fruitless searches for Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370, and after revelations suggesting the plane made several course corrections after the cockpit’s last known contact with air traffic control.

The official, who is involved in the investigation, told the Associated Press no motive has been established and no demands have been made known, and it is not yet clear where the plane was taken. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorised to brief the media.

The official said that hijacking was no longer a theory. “It is conclusive,’’ he added.

Carmen_Sandiego said:

Yet more unnamed sources.

http://m.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/world/malaysia-confirms-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370-was-hijacked/story-fni0xs63-1226855315871

INVESTIGATORS have concluded that one or more people with significant flying experience hijacked the missing Malaysia Airlines jet, switched off communication devices and steered it off-course, a Malaysian government official involved in the investigation said this afternoon.

The claim comes after seven days of fruitless searches for Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370, and after revelations suggesting the plane made several course corrections after the cockpit’s last known contact with air traffic control.

The official, who is involved in the investigation, told the Associated Press no motive has been established and no demands have been made known, and it is not yet clear where the plane was taken. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorised to brief the media.

The official said that hijacking was no longer a theory. “It is conclusive,’’ he added.

Hmm, if so, maybe someone was going to a 9/11 but couldn’t get the plane to where they wanted to go. Flying towards India, so Pakistani hijackers?

Suzanne J Dean ‏@suzannejdean 18 secs

@wisorsm Malaysian Prime Minister is about to speak with new “news” about hijacked plane

Live streaming to the press conference..

the PM is late.. twitter explodes with comments on how the PM goes missing too

some guy has come out an told the press that the PM will not answer any questions during the press conference

it’s an anxious wait. every so often the guys in the hall look down the hall as if something is going to happen…

here goes

I’ll bet when he makes his triumphant entrance he will say that they are pretty sure the plane was hijacked but will take about 20 minutes to tell it.

Arts said:

the PM is late.. twitter explodes with comments on how the PM goes missing too

He was on the plane?

Peak Warming Man said:

I’ll bet when he makes his triumphant entrance he will say that they are pretty sure the plane was hijacked but will take about 20 minutes to tell it.

but he makes it official and the internet can explode… officially

Arts said:

Peak Warming Man said:

I’ll bet when he makes his triumphant entrance he will say that they are pretty sure the plane was hijacked but will take about 20 minutes to tell it.

but he makes it official and the internet can explode… officially

But I don’t like the internet, I like here.

Keep me updated. I’m watching the Formula 1.

I am bringing the internet to you..

still waiting for the PM

still waiting.. cameramen are checking batteries and reporters are standing up to stretch…..

here goes…

stay on target….

He is saying rainy days and Sundays always get him down……………………..

Wish he’d get on with it.

tell us something we DON’T know!

He is saying that ever since he was a little boy it’s always amazed him how planes fly…………………………………..

something about some data

This wanker doesn’t have a clue, Uri Geller already said it was a fire in the cockpit.

someone deliberately disappeared the plane…

Arts said:

someone deliberately disappeared the plane…

Uri Geller?

Peak Warming Man said:

Arts said:

someone deliberately disappeared the plane…

Uri Geller?

Well he bent the plane first, using his mind, then it disappeared.

Peak Warming Man said:

Arts said:

someone deliberately disappeared the plane…

Uri Geller?

Clive Palmer sat on it, but nobody wants to check his arse-crack.

all the press are leaving now.. it’s be cook if the PM of Malaysia comes back out, encore style : “Oh by the way, it’s hidden under a big T”

cool*

Skeptic Pete said:

This wanker doesn’t have a clue, Uri Geller already said it was a fire in the cockpit.

What does Doris Stokes have to say?

well, you were wrong PWM.. he didn’t take 20 mins to say the plane had been hijacked.. he took 20 mins to say they still had no real idea…

It is a secret of Polichinelle to some of us that it was a controlled demolition using nanoavothermite.

morrie said:

It is a secret of Polichinelle to some of us that it was a controlled demolition using nanoavothermite.

There’s a thought – did any skyscrapers go missing at the same time as that plane?

morrie said:

It is a secret of Polichinelle to some of us that it was a controlled demolition using nanoavothermite.

like

From the ABC news site:

Mr Razak says the satellite data shows “with a high degree of certainty” that the communication and reporting system on MH370, known as the ACARS, was turned off before the plane reached the Malaysian peninsula.

He says a short time later the aircraft’s transponder was also switched off.

“It then flew in a westerly direction back over Peninsular Malaysia before turning north-west,” he said.

“Up until the point at which it left military primary radar coverage these movements are consistent with deliberate action by someone on the plane.”

————————————————————————————————————-

Mr buffy says his interpretation is still plausible. As the oxygen deprivation starts to kick in, you get a bit ‘drunk’ in the way you think….

captain_spalding said:

morrie said:

It is a secret of Polichinelle to some of us that it was a controlled demolition using nanoavothermite.

There’s a thought – did any skyscrapers go missing at the same time as that plane?

All the passengers went missing around the same time

coincidence?

conspiracy?

CrazyNeutrino said:

captain_spalding said:

morrie said:

It is a secret of Polichinelle to some of us that it was a controlled demolition using nanoavothermite.

There’s a thought – did any skyscrapers go missing at the same time as that plane?

All the passengers went missing around the same time

coincidence?

conspiracy?

Collusion of psychotic tendencies and security incompetence……

I think this man is behind the missing plane

It’s an enigma, dipped in a puzzle, wrapped in bacon.

Mmmmmmmmmmm……….

Bacon

Aaaaaaaaaarrrrrggggggghhhhhhh……….

I have found a no BS news article nicely detailing all that satellite stuff, courtesy of the New Scientist.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn25232-data-transmission-system-on-mh370-deliberately-disabled.html

Carmen_Sandiego said:

I have found a no BS news article nicely detailing all that satellite stuff, courtesy of the New Scientist.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn25232-data-transmission-system-on-mh370-deliberately-disabled.html

Very interesting article

it also indicates that future designs of aircraft communications need to consider greater satellite inclusion

airlines must address this issue of having rogue pilots or hijackers being able to simply turn off transponders and ACARS units, by turning a knob in the cockpit, if these units pose a fire risk that needs to be addressed as well

Carmen_Sandiego said:

I have found a no BS news article nicely detailing all that satellite stuff, courtesy of the New Scientist.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn25232-data-transmission-system-on-mh370-deliberately-disabled.html

thanks mate.

CrazyNeutrino said:

Carmen_Sandiego said:

I have found a no BS news article nicely detailing all that satellite stuff, courtesy of the New Scientist.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn25232-data-transmission-system-on-mh370-deliberately-disabled.html

Very interesting article

it also indicates that future designs of aircraft communications need to consider greater satellite inclusion

airlines must address this issue of having rogue pilots or hijackers being able to simply turn off transponders and ACARS units, by turning a knob in the cockpit, if these units pose a fire risk that needs to be addressed as well

In most fire risk situations the access needs to be relatively immediate. However, “in case of fire, break glass” that was used on fire extinguishers in the past.. linked also to a fire alarm.. could alert authorities that transponders etc were being turned off.

Is Flight MH370 Here?

CrazyNeutrino said:

Is Flight MH370 Here?

Doubt they had enough fuel for that without an clandestine refuelling arrangement.

So now they are looking in the southern Indian ocean, south of Perth? Is this a hail-Mary play or do they some inkling it may have been down there? Seems to get more bizarre each day.

party_pants said:

So now they are looking in the southern Indian ocean, south of Perth? Is this a hail-Mary play or do they some inkling it may have been down there? Seems to get more bizarre each day.

The search zone covers an arc of possible locations based on the final transmissions to a satellite AFAICT.

party_pants said:

So now they are looking in the southern Indian ocean, south of Perth? Is this a hail-Mary play or do they some inkling it may have been down there? Seems to get more bizarre each day.

It’s bizarre, but the science behind it is OK. The last automatic satellite communication ping from the aircraft was from a circle defined by angular distance from the satellite. Various bits of that circle can be omitted – it was not picked up by an overlapping satellite, and another portion is beyond the fuel rage of the aircraft. What’s left are two arcs, one in the northern hemisphere and one in the southern hemisphere. These arcs are about 100 nautical miles wide (error margin), with some potential flying time beyond that.

party_pants said:

So now they are looking in the southern Indian ocean, south of Perth? Is this a hail-Mary play or do they some inkling it may have been down there? Seems to get more bizarre each day.

watching flightradar24, the planes seem to disappear in the bight south of the SA/WA border and reappear about 45 minutes later on the other side

Michael V said:

party_pants said:

So now they are looking in the southern Indian ocean, south of Perth? Is this a hail-Mary play or do they some inkling it may have been down there? Seems to get more bizarre each day.

It’s bizarre, but the science behind it is OK. The last automatic satellite communication ping from the aircraft was from a circle defined by angular distance from the satellite. Various bits of that circle can be omitted – it was not picked up by an overlapping satellite, and another portion is beyond the fuel rage of the aircraft. What’s left are two arcs, one in the northern hemisphere and one in the southern hemisphere. These arcs are about 100 nautical miles wide (error margin), with some potential flying time beyond that.

Ah thanks. That makes sense.

My theory is that the plane was hijacked by the copilot. The cabin was depressurised and flown to 45000 feet to kill the passengers, It was then flown to the Indian ocean and from there to Durkadurkastan.
The hijackers now have all the money and passports/identities of the passengers and the entire cargo.
They more importantly now have a platform with which to deliver WMDs, most likely a stolen russian nuke, to somewhere, most likely Israel.

I sincerely hope I’m wrong.

Kingy said:

My theory is that the plane was hijacked by the copilot. The cabin was depressurised and flown to 45000 feet to kill the passengers, It was then flown to the Indian ocean and from there to Durkadurkastan.
The hijackers now have all the money and passports/identities of the passengers and the entire cargo.
They more importantly now have a platform with which to deliver WMDs, most likely a stolen russian nuke, to somewhere, most likely Israel.

I sincerely hope I’m wrong.

I do too.

We know the plane carried 5 tonnes of mangosteens destined for a market in China, so there’s some food there. It might have been possible to fly over Myanmar to get to the last ping-arc. However, with the limited knowledge, it it impossible to rule out millions of scenarios.

Hence the searching around the ping-arcs.

Kingy said:

My theory is that the plane was hijacked by the copilot. The cabin was depressurised and flown to 45000 feet to kill the passengers, It was then flown to the Indian ocean and from there to Durkadurkastan.
The hijackers now have all the money and passports/identities of the passengers and the entire cargo.
They more importantly now have a platform with which to deliver WMDs, most likely a stolen russian nuke, to somewhere, most likely Israel.

I sincerely hope I’m wrong.

Nice theory. I don’t think that the passports will be much use will they?

stumpy_seahorse said:

party_pants said:

So now they are looking in the southern Indian ocean, south of Perth? Is this a hail-Mary play or do they some inkling it may have been down there? Seems to get more bizarre each day.

watching flightradar24, the planes seem to disappear in the bight south of the SA/WA border and reappear about 45 minutes later on the other side

Yes, they disappear on the eastern edge of the WA wheatbelt, seems to be the limit of maps. Been tracking flights for my Dad or my sister before and they get to a certain point and then vanish.

party_pants said:

stumpy_seahorse said:

party_pants said:

So now they are looking in the southern Indian ocean, south of Perth? Is this a hail-Mary play or do they some inkling it may have been down there? Seems to get more bizarre each day.

watching flightradar24, the planes seem to disappear in the bight south of the SA/WA border and reappear about 45 minutes later on the other side

Yes, they disappear on the eastern edge of the WA wheatbelt, seems to be the limit of maps. Been tracking flights for my Dad or my sister before and they get to a certain point and then vanish.

about halfway between perth and dundas nature reserve, across to halfway between port lincoln and the border

party_pants said:

stumpy_seahorse said:

party_pants said:

So now they are looking in the southern Indian ocean, south of Perth? Is this a hail-Mary play or do they some inkling it may have been down there? Seems to get more bizarre each day.

watching flightradar24, the planes seem to disappear in the bight south of the SA/WA border and reappear about 45 minutes later on the other side

Yes, they disappear on the eastern edge of the WA wheatbelt, seems to be the limit of maps. Been tracking flights for my Dad or my sister before and they get to a certain point and then vanish.

Is there anything worth knowing about east of the WA wheatbelt?

stumpy_seahorse said:

party_pants said:

stumpy_seahorse said:

watching flightradar24, the planes seem to disappear in the bight south of the SA/WA border and reappear about 45 minutes later on the other side

Yes, they disappear on the eastern edge of the WA wheatbelt, seems to be the limit of maps. Been tracking flights for my Dad or my sister before and they get to a certain point and then vanish.

about halfway between perth and dundas nature reserve, across to halfway between port lincoln and the border

Yep.

Flights from Brisbane and Sydney disappear over central Australia too.

I’m still rather surprised that I haven’t heard the name ‘jindalee’ whispered anywhere.

morrie said:

party_pants said:

stumpy_seahorse said:

watching flightradar24, the planes seem to disappear in the bight south of the SA/WA border and reappear about 45 minutes later on the other side

Yes, they disappear on the eastern edge of the WA wheatbelt, seems to be the limit of maps. Been tracking flights for my Dad or my sister before and they get to a certain point and then vanish.

Is there anything worth knowing about east of the WA wheatbelt?

They give me my daily bread.

.. and planes fly over it.

sibeen said:

I’m still rather surprised that I haven’t heard the name ‘jindalee’ whispered anywhere.

Surely if we had anything we;d have told them by now?

sibeen said:

I’m still rather surprised that I haven’t heard the name ‘jindalee’ whispered anywhere.

As I understand it, it was the weekend and Jindalee (JORN) was not turned on. Likely the operators were out on the papa india sierra sierra, because the gubmint wouldn’t pay the penalty rates.

Michael V said:

sibeen said:

I’m still rather surprised that I haven’t heard the name ‘jindalee’ whispered anywhere.

As I understand it, it was the weekend and Jindalee (JORN) was not turned on. Likely the operators were out on the papa india sierra sierra, because the gubmint wouldn’t pay the penalty rates.

Oh, I wasn’t sure is we were talking about Perth or Brisbane.

Michael V said:

sibeen said:

I’m still rather surprised that I haven’t heard the name ‘jindalee’ whispered anywhere.

As I understand it, it was the weekend and Jindalee (JORN) was not turned on. Likely the operators were out on the papa india sierra sierra, because the gubmint wouldn’t pay the penalty rates.

OK, I hadn’t heard that, but it would be bloody typical thinking; develop a radar that can see everything, just in case, and leave it unmanned at weekends.

Like nothing every goes pear shaped on weekends.

sibeen said:

Michael V said:

sibeen said:

I’m still rather surprised that I haven’t heard the name ‘jindalee’ whispered anywhere.

As I understand it, it was the weekend and Jindalee (JORN) was not turned on. Likely the operators were out on the papa india sierra sierra, because the gubmint wouldn’t pay the penalty rates.

OK, I hadn’t heard that, but it would be bloody typical thinking; develop a radar that can see everything, just in case, and leave it unmanned at weekends.

Like nothing every goes pear shaped on weekends.

My understanding of the thinking is: Have it on during the week, and keep all operators up-to-date. Only turn it on on the expensive shifts if the gubmint thinks some might attack us. Nice. Now they all know: attack Australia on the weekends…

jindalee has been mentioned. it was looking for the boatees.

Michael V said:

sibeen said:

Michael V said:

As I understand it, it was the weekend and Jindalee (JORN) was not turned on. Likely the operators were out on the papa india sierra sierra, because the gubmint wouldn’t pay the penalty rates.

OK, I hadn’t heard that, but it would be bloody typical thinking; develop a radar that can see everything, just in case, and leave it unmanned at weekends.

Like nothing every goes pear shaped on weekends.

My understanding of the thinking is: Have it on during the week, and keep all operators up-to-date. Only turn it on on the expensive shifts if the gubmint thinks some might attack us. Nice. Now they all know: attack Australia on the weekends…

Not a good idea.

If you disturb our pissups, you will be hunted down and eliminated with extreme prejudice.

Kingy said:

Michael V said:

sibeen said:

OK, I hadn’t heard that, but it would be bloody typical thinking; develop a radar that can see everything, just in case, and leave it unmanned at weekends.

Like nothing every goes pear shaped on weekends.

My understanding of the thinking is: Have it on during the week, and keep all operators up-to-date. Only turn it on on the expensive shifts if the gubmint thinks some might attack us. Nice. Now they all know: attack Australia on the weekends…

Not a good idea.

If you disturb our pissups, you will be hunted down and eliminated with extreme prejudice.

Hahahahahahahahaha!

I like and endorse you thinking!

:) :)

sibeen said:

I’m still rather surprised that I haven’t heard the name ‘jindalee’ whispered anywhere.

it has been.

roughbarked said:

sibeen said:

I’m still rather surprised that I haven’t heard the name ‘jindalee’ whispered anywhere.

it has been.

It’s only official mentions have been along the lines of “we aren’t making any statements”. Despite the rumours that it is turned off over the weekends, it makes you wonder how such precise potential flight paths can be determined…

All of this must be very difficult.

People like the Malaysian PM etc., who are used to being right all the time, and having everyone around them agree that they’re right, have to constantly find new ways to stand up in front of world media and say “we haven’t got a sodding clue”.

furious said:

• Shes having a temper tangy that no one is listening to her

Yeah, good one…

I’m not alone then. ;)

It’s times like these you realise the world really is a big place.

I still like Mr buffy’s narrative. Slow loss of oxygen, captain and crew go a big gaga, start fiddling around with the steering wheel and buttons and knobs and stuff, everyone loses consciousness (probably dies) and the plane flies on into the ether. Eventually disappearing under the waves.

buffy said:

I still like Mr buffy’s narrative. Slow loss of oxygen, captain and crew go a big gaga, start fiddling around with the steering wheel and buttons and knobs and stuff, everyone loses consciousness (probably dies) and the plane flies on into the ether. Eventually disappearing under the waves.

Difficult to have that happen – but not impossible – with the various alarms in the aeroplane.

This article makes far too much sense for it to be a legitimate scenario…

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2014/03/mh370-electrical-fire/

Cliffs:

Electrical fire.
Things get turned off.
Pilot heads for nearest suitable runway.
Things get worse.
Crew overcome.
Plane eventually runs out of fuel.

Carmen_Sandiego said:

This article makes far too much sense for it to be a legitimate scenario…

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2014/03/mh370-electrical-fire/

Cliffs:

Electrical fire.
Things get turned off.
Pilot heads for nearest suitable runway.
Things get worse.
Crew overcome.
Plane eventually runs out of fuel.

Well I hope that’s not the real cause.

because Uri Geller predicted a cockpit fire.

Skeptic Pete said:

Carmen_Sandiego said:

This article makes far too much sense for it to be a legitimate scenario…

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2014/03/mh370-electrical-fire/

Cliffs:

Electrical fire.
Things get turned off.
Pilot heads for nearest suitable runway.
Things get worse.
Crew overcome.
Plane eventually runs out of fuel.

Well I hope that’s not the real cause.

because Uri Geller predicted a cockpit fire.

Lots of people predicted cockpit fires.

Carmen_Sandiego said:

Skeptic Pete said:

Carmen_Sandiego said:

This article makes far too much sense for it to be a legitimate scenario…

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2014/03/mh370-electrical-fire/

Cliffs:

Electrical fire.
Things get turned off.
Pilot heads for nearest suitable runway.
Things get worse.
Crew overcome.
Plane eventually runs out of fuel.

Well I hope that’s not the real cause.

because Uri Geller predicted a cockpit fire.

Lots of people predicted cockpit fires.

yeah but I bet they weren’t all world renowned psychics.

Carmen_Sandiego said:

This article makes far too much sense for it to be a legitimate scenario…

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2014/03/mh370-electrical-fire/

Cliffs:

Electrical fire.
Things get turned off.
Pilot heads for nearest suitable runway.
Things get worse.
Crew overcome.
Plane eventually runs out of fuel.

“The loss of transponders and communications makes perfect sense in a fire.”

He is forgetting the satellite pinging communication, that kept going for hours.
As a matter of fact to keep his theory nice and tidy he refuses to mention it at all.

also doesn’t mention that no one managed to get a single mobile phone call out, even after flying back towards that runway…

also doesn’t explain how a catastrophic fire leading to loss of so many systems didn’t affect the ability of the plane to fly on for seven/eight more hours on autopilot..

>My theory is that the plane was hijacked by the copilot. The cabin was depressurised and flown to 45000 feet to kill the passengers, It was then flown to the Indian ocean and from there to Durkadurkastan.
The hijackers now have all the money and passports/identities of the passengers and the entire cargo.
They more importantly now have a platform with which to deliver WMDs, most likely a stolen russian nuke, to somewhere, most likely Israel.
I sincerely hope I’m wrong.”

My pet crazy is that “all right good night” is hinting at something, that “right” may mean “write” and “night” may mean “Knight”, though am uncertain re this – it may be hinting at a certain terrorist organization which has links or previously done business in Malaysia. The other possibility is that All Right Good Night is hinting at Alternate Reality Gaming Network and the likes of the TV series “Lost” which is about a plane going down.

transition said:

The hijackers now have all the money and passports/identities of the passengers and the entire cargo.
They more importantly now have a platform with which to deliver WMDs, most likely a stolen russian nuke, to somewhere, most likely Israel.

Without touching accounts the only money available would be the little cash the passengers had and the passports would be useless and too risky to attempt to doctor.

No Kingy said this…

“The hijackers now have all the money and passports/identities of the passengers and the entire cargo.
They more importantly now have a platform with which to deliver WMDs, most likely a stolen russian nuke, to somewhere, most likely Israel.”

transition said:

My pet crazy is that “all right good night” is hinting at something, that “right” may mean “write” and “night” may mean “Knight”, though am uncertain re this – it may be hinting at a certain terrorist organization which has links or previously done business in Malaysia. The other possibility is that All Right Good Night is hinting at Alternate Reality Gaming Network and the likes of the TV series “Lost” which is about a plane going down.

I’ll have what you’re having.

So have they found it yet?

party_pants said:

So have they found it yet?

lol f’n arseclowns

Bangkok: Thailand’s military said on Tuesday that its radar detected a plane that may have been Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 just minutes after the jetliner’s communications went down, and that it didn’t share the information with Malaysia earlier because it wasn’t specifically asked for it.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/malaysia-airlines-missing-jet-thailand-gives-radar-data-10-days-after-plane-lost-20140319-hvk7i.html#ixzz2wN6gWIaH

Skunkworks said:

The ‘doctoring’ of the passports is the easy part, and there’s some who are quite expert at it.

Getting a genuine passport as a ‘substrate’ is the harder part.

As for stealing the plane for nefarious purposes – you don’t have to go to all that trouble, and attract all that attention..

A used 777 is, admittedly, a pricey item. You can get one for about $35 – 37 million.

But, you could opt for a used 727 cargo for only $275,000. Good range, reliable JT8-D engines, and you can have it, no questions asked, no adverse world-wide publicity. $275,000 is chicken feed to a well-connected terrorist group.

A Startlingly Simple Explanation of What Happened to Malaysia Airlines Flight
http://www.wired.com/autopia/2014/03/mh370-electrical-fire/

(The URL says it all)

Divine Angel said:

A Startlingly Simple Explanation of What Happened to Malaysia Airlines Flight
http://www.wired.com/autopia/2014/03/mh370-electrical-fire/

(The URL says it all)

a POSSIBLE explanation of what MAY have happened …

to me it doesn’t answer all the questions

anyway i’m going to wait to see what peak war….um anyhoo has to say.

captain_spalding said:

As for stealing the plane for nefarious purposes – you don’t have to go to all that trouble, and attract all that attention..

A used 777 is, admittedly, a pricey item. You can get one for about $35 – 37 million.

But, you could opt for a used 727 cargo for only $275,000. Good range, reliable JT8-D engines, and you can have it, no questions asked, no adverse world-wide publicity. $275,000 is chicken feed to a well-connected terrorist group.

True. I watched a doco a while back about a group of engineers who crashed one for research purposes. They did exactly that, bought an old clapped out one for about $300 K IIRC.

“We haven’t yet decided whether we will go to the embassy, but we demand that the Malaysian ambassador come and represent the government to come and answer the families’ questions and give them some information. They’re secretive, they never tell the truth,” he said.

Anger has also spread online, with some Chinese calling on the government to impose sanctions on Malaysia for its poor handling of the incident.

“Malaysia knew that the plane changed direction, yet concealed it, knew that it was not in South China Sea, yet let everyone look there for several days, and they are still hiding all kinds of information,” one user wrote on microblogging site Sina Weibo. “This rogue state really should be sanctioned.”

Read more:

http://www.smh.com.au/world/missing-malaysia-airlines-flight-chinese-families-threaten-hunger-strike-over-lack-of-details-20140319-hvk97.html#ixzz2wNHvWHC7

…

Looks as though the Chinese family members of those on MH370 suspect of the Malaysian government what they know to be true of their own. Must be awful knowing that your government doesn’t have your best interests at heart.

ChrispenEvan said:

anyway i’m going to wait to see what peak war….um anyhoo has to say.

Nobody has mentioned to most obvious………….a UFO

>A Startlingly Simple Explanation of What Happened to Malaysia Airlines Flight
http://www.wired.com/autopia/2014/03/mh370-electrical-fire/

Seems sensible enough. As he says, there’s no point bothering with further speculation at this stage. Personally I’m finding the story pretty tedious in the absence of hard information.

Bubblecar said:

Personally I’m finding the story pretty tedious in the absence of hard information.

Yes but the media need to pull straws to keep the story fresh and interesting enough to keep running it.

It has also been reported that people on some island in the Maldives spotted a low flying airliner with markings that matched Malaysian Airlines. Apparently they are used to only small float-planes around their little island, so a large aircraft flying low overhead was something unusual and remarkable.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/malaysian-airlines-expands-investigation-to-includ,35524/

ChrispenEvan said:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/malaysian-airlines-expands-investigation-to-includ,35524/

Did it have a flux capacitor onboard?

Divine Angel said:

Did it have a flux capacitor onboard?

Was it carrying a water-powered Land Rover?

ChrispenEvan said:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/malaysian-airlines-expands-investigation-to-includ,35524/

It’s always in the last dimension you look.

Mrs Skeptic says they’ve just found it!

She was obviously wrong

nothing in the media about it…

there are however recent reports of possible sightings in the Maldives

>>nothing in the media about it…

There’s been a bit.

Found it

Skeptic Pete said:

Mrs Skeptic says they’ve just found it!

What made her say that?

Bubblecar said:

Skeptic Pete said:

Mrs Skeptic says they’ve just found it!

What made her say that?

She mis-heard a 4pm news promo I think.

Skeptic Pete said:

She mis-heard a 4pm news promo I think.

Ah. At least she wasn’t deliberately trolling :)

If the plane is never found in years to come it will be like a ghost ship, sightings of MH370 will be periodically reported like the Flying Dutchman.

“I saw it, just out the window, I saw it plane as day, and the pilots were just sitting there staring straight ahead as if frozen in time, Martha saw it too”

Maybe its in Zaphod Beeblebroxs’ pocket

gaghalfrunt said:

Maybe its in Zaphod Beeblebroxs’ pocket

.
No that’s where he keeps his billiards.

It looks like its here

Mystery solved

Missing Plane Found

Maybe it will turn up on one of the remote islands

Places where MH370 jet could have flown with fuel load for Beijing; low estimate

Lost Jet’s Path Seen as Altered via Computer

Student claims to have spotted missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 on satellite

MH370: the last known movements of missing Malaysia Airlines flight

Well, look at that. Mrs SP might be psychic after all. She only got the timing wrong by about 24 hours.

:)

Assuming the black box on the aircraft has a pinger on it , when it is immersed in water it emits a ping, then any modern submarine would have found the wreck as soon as it hit the water

Submarines can hear all noises made by man made devices at great distances, a pinger shouldn’t be a problem to find

wookiemeister said:

Assuming the black box on the aircraft has a pinger on it , when it is immersed in water it emits a ping, then any modern submarine would have found the wreck as soon as it hit the water

Submarines can hear all noises made by man made devices at great distances, a pinger shouldn’t be a problem to find

Are you sure they emit a sound? I thought they would transmit their location using radio frequencies.

wookiemeister said:

Assuming the black box on the aircraft has a pinger on it , when it is immersed in water it emits a ping, then any modern submarine would have found the wreck as soon as it hit the water

Submarines can hear all noises made by man made devices at great distances, a pinger shouldn’t be a problem to find

no. They need to be closer than that.

Witty Rejoinder said:

wookiemeister said:

Assuming the black box on the aircraft has a pinger on it , when it is immersed in water it emits a ping, then any modern submarine would have found the wreck as soon as it hit the water

Submarines can hear all noises made by man made devices at great distances, a pinger shouldn’t be a problem to find

Are you sure they emit a sound? I thought they would transmit their location using radio frequencies.

hmm sonics sound
sound waves
frequencies

http://science.howstuffworks.com/transport/flight/modern/black-box8.htm

If a plane crashes into the water, this beacon sends out an ultrasonic pulse that cannot be heard by human ears but is readily detectable by sonar and acoustical locating equipment. There is a submergence sensor on the side of the beacon that looks like a bull’s-eye. When water touches this sensor, it activates the beacon.

The beacon sends out pulses at 37.5 kilohertz (kHz) and can transmit sound as deep as 14,000 feet (4,267 m). Once the beacon begins “pinging,” it pings once per second for 30 days. This beacon is powered by a battery that has a shelf life of six years. In rare instances, the beacon may get snapped off during a high-impact collision.

ChrispenEvan said:

http://science.howstuffworks.com/transport/flight/modern/black-box8.htm

If a plane crashes into the water, this beacon sends out an ultrasonic pulse that cannot be heard by human ears but is readily detectable by sonar and acoustical locating equipment. There is a submergence sensor on the side of the beacon that looks like a bull’s-eye. When water touches this sensor, it activates the beacon.

The beacon sends out pulses at 37.5 kilohertz (kHz) and can transmit sound as deep as 14,000 feet (4,267 m). Once the beacon begins “pinging,” it pings once per second for 30 days. This beacon is powered by a battery that has a shelf life of six years. In rare instances, the beacon may get snapped off during a high-impact collision.

But but wookie can hear it from anywhere.

http://www.rjeint.com/beacons.htm

can check the specs if you wish.

Witty Rejoinder said:

wookiemeister said:

Assuming the black box on the aircraft has a pinger on it , when it is immersed in water it emits a ping, then any modern submarine would have found the wreck as soon as it hit the water

Submarines can hear all noises made by man made devices at great distances, a pinger shouldn’t be a problem to find

Are you sure they emit a sound? I thought they would transmit their location using radio frequencies.

Not under water

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

Assuming the black box on the aircraft has a pinger on it , when it is immersed in water it emits a ping, then any modern submarine would have found the wreck as soon as it hit the water

Submarines can hear all noises made by man made devices at great distances, a pinger shouldn’t be a problem to find

no. They need to be closer than that.

You have been misled

wookiemeister said:

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

Assuming the black box on the aircraft has a pinger on it , when it is immersed in water it emits a ping, then any modern submarine would have found the wreck as soon as it hit the water

Submarines can hear all noises made by man made devices at great distances, a pinger shouldn’t be a problem to find

no. They need to be closer than that.

You have been misled

I doubt it.

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

roughbarked said:

no. They need to be closer than that.

You have been misled

I doubt it.

I clean clocks and watches with sonic waves. I know there are shadows.

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

roughbarked said:

no. They need to be closer than that.

You have been misled

I doubt it.

They have spent untold amounts on submarines

They are going to spend perhaps 40 billion of subs over here

Other nations have spent more , my bets is that they should hear a pinger

wookiemeister said:

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

You have been misled

I doubt it.

They have spent untold amounts on submarines

They are going to spend perhaps 40 billion of subs over here

Other nations have spent more , my bets is that they should hear a pinger

If they are in range. No doubt about that.

i would imagine the distance the sound travels will depend on a few things. high frequencies travel less far than low. if there are haloclines then the sound may not reach the location of the receiver.

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

roughbarked said:

no. They need to be closer than that.

You have been misled

I doubt it.

Discounting thermoclines, a submarine can hear over vast distances.. Of course in very deep water you can’t discount thermoclines

also the location doesn’t appear to be a strategic one so maybe there are no subs within range. also subs are secret so telling the location of the beacon would probably give their location away.

Haloclines and thermoclines aside..We are met with the density of the solution.

halo and thermclines are to do with density. and HF through water has already been mentioned.

ChrispenEvan said:

halo and thermclines are to do with density. and HF through water has already been mentioned.

ta. ;)

ChrispenEvan said:

also the location doesn’t appear to be a strategic one so maybe there are no subs within range. also subs are secret so telling the location of the beacon would probably give their location away.

I thought everyone could hear ours rattling along underwater.

poikilotherm said:

I thought everyone could hear ours rattling along underwater.

Ours are actually pretty quiet*. We’ve sneaked up on US aircraft carrier battle groups in exercises

• when they actually put to sea.

I guess the key thing is to put at least one transponder on a plane that cannot be deactivated from inside the plane, like in the wing or something.

dv said:

I guess the key thing is to put at least one transponder on a plane that cannot be deactivated from inside the plane, like in the wing or something.

What happens if there is a fault and it needs to be shut down?

What kind of fault could occur to a transponder that requires it to be shut down…

dv said:

What kind of fault could occur to a transponder that requires it to be shut down…

A fire?

but how many transponders and ACARS units etc catch fire?

CrazyNeutrino said:

dv said:

What kind of fault could occur to a transponder that requires it to be shut down…

A fire?

but how many transponders and ACARS units etc catch fire?

9

The fire theory is weird…

The fire was so bad that it knocked out all communications on the plane EXCEPT the satellite pinger for Boeing..
It also left the autopilot systems functional after smoke over-came everyone on board, but not so bad that it stopped the plane travelling on for 7hours.

Dropbear said:

The fire theory is weird…

The fire was so bad that it knocked out all communications on the plane EXCEPT the satellite pinger for Boeing..
It also left the autopilot systems functional after smoke over-came everyone on board, but not so bad that it stopped the plane travelling on for 7hours.

It also means that the time between the fire starting and it completely knocking out their comms was less than two minutes.

Anyway lets pretend in our minds eye that this is the scene of the termination of flight MH370 out of KL.

Now when they first decided to look down there I rolled my eyes and went WTF.
And to put it mildly the reasons given for doing so were weak as piss.

I put it to you that they started looking down there for reasons that are not security cleared.

I’ll have more to say about this at a later time.

dv said:

What kind of fault could occur to a transponder that requires it to be shut down…

Short circuit resulting in fire.

Dropbear said:

The fire theory is weird…

The fire was so bad that it knocked out all communications on the plane EXCEPT the satellite pinger for Boeing..
It also left the autopilot systems functional after smoke over-came everyone on board, but not so bad that it stopped the plane travelling on for 7hours.

And don’t forget the fire that caused the pilots to change heading for the closest airport wasn’t serious enough to encourage the pilot say more than “OK, Good Night” several minutes later, let alone a Mayday.

Anyway this has been a ripper of a story though tragic for those involved.

Imagine if you will, again in your minds eye, living in a bark hut on the banks of the Murray spending your days cutting down trees as fast as you could to make the land look as much like Shropshire as possible when you get a letter saying that several Impi of Zulus were attacking Rorke’s Drift and that the writer would have more to say about it at a later time.
You’d put down your axe and say ‘he got the last bit right’

Carmen_Sandiego said:

Dropbear said:

The fire theory is weird…

The fire was so bad that it knocked out all communications on the plane EXCEPT the satellite pinger for Boeing..
It also left the autopilot systems functional after smoke over-came everyone on board, but not so bad that it stopped the plane travelling on for 7hours.

And don’t forget the fire that caused the pilots to change heading for the closest airport wasn’t serious enough to encourage the pilot say more than “OK, Good Night” several minutes later, let alone a Mayday.

Huh? They changed course before the ok goodnight? ..

It’ll be dark there now, boats and planes will be all over it at first light, wont hear much till then I guess.

Peak Warming Man said:

It’ll be dark there now, boats and planes will be all over it at first light, wont hear much till then I guess.

Still light here 2500km east…

Peak Warming Man said:

It’ll be dark there now, boats and planes will be all over it at first light, wont hear much till then I guess.

Only just twilight here in Perth. They’re another 1000 km to the west, so they should get another hour or two of daylight.

Stealth said:

Peak Warming Man said:

It’ll be dark there now, boats and planes will be all over it at first light, wont hear much till then I guess.

Still light here 2500km east…

How do you figure that?

scratches head

Wait a minute, a you one of those round earthers?

in fact it’s what drove me to pack up and head inside. Thought I’d better do so before it got fully dark.

Dropbear said:

Huh? They changed course before the ok goodnight? ..

According to the latest timeline of events I saw yesterday.

OK, ignore my last posts.

http://www.thestar.com.my/News/Nation/2014/03/20/It-changed-course-only-after-all-right-good-night/

Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 deviated from its course by turning westwards only after the co-pilot had said “all right, good night” to Kuala Lumpur air traffic control, Department of Civil Aviation director-general Datuk Azharuddin Abdul Rahman said.

He said reports of the plane changing its course westwards before the cockpit’s last voice communication with ATC were “not correct”.

>The fire was so bad that it knocked out all communications on the plane EXCEPT the satellite pinger for Boeing..

May have a dedicated battery/UPS with the transponder, so if a power buss is shut down has reserve for X hours.

Everything I have read gives no basis to believe any pilot has been involved(instigated) in anything nasty.

CrazyNeutrino said:

dv said:

What kind of fault could occur to a transponder that requires it to be shut down…

A fire?

but how many transponders and ACARS units etc catch fire?

anything electrical can, easily.

roughbarked said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

dv said:

What kind of fault could occur to a transponder that requires it to be shut down…

A fire?

but how many transponders and ACARS units etc catch fire?

anything electrical can, easily.

Yet the satellite pinger was working fine.

>anything electrical can, easily.

Hope not.

transition said:

>anything electrical can, easily.

Hope not.

The conditions don’t always exist but if they do..

>The conditions don’t always exist but if they do..

Elaborate.

transition said:

Everything I have read gives no basis to believe any pilot has been involved(instigated) in anything nasty.

It’s such a baffling mystery.

Hopefully some day wreckage will be found and retrieved which might shed light on it.

“It’s bafflin’ “

Hamish Macbeth.

I imagine that beachcombing will become a serious ‘hobby’ for residents along the WA coastline for fragments etc. if this recent sighting proves to be valid.

transition said:

>anything electrical can, easily.

Hope not.

The secret is to use circuit breakers.

Tejay said:

I imagine that beachcombing will become a serious ‘hobby’ for residents along the WA coastline for fragments etc. if this recent sighting proves to be valid.

It’s as far from the Coast as Brisbane is from Adelaide

>The secret is to use circuit breakers.

Where’s RB going to get his central heating from then.