Date: 13/03/2014 20:01:43
From: rumpole
ID: 503067
Subject: Why do governments rely so much on Microsoft ?

Bill Gates , Wozniak, Jobs were just three geeks when they wrote their first operating system. Of course , they had help from then on, but surely it’s within the capability of our Universities to start from scratch and write an operating system suitable for the modern age.

The vast majority of government departments use a word processor, spreadsheet, and presentation software, browser and email, pretty basic stuff which could be fairly easily written for another OS.

But now, we have to put up with high prices, endless bug fixes and security updates that cover holes in software written decades ago.

Surely we could save millions over the years, and be more secure by ditching Microsoft and starting again ?

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Date: 13/03/2014 20:06:53
From: CrazyNeutrino
ID: 503076
Subject: re: Why do governments rely so much on Microsoft ?

rumpole said:


Bill Gates , Wozniak, Jobs were just three geeks when they wrote their first operating system. Of course , they had help from then on, but surely it’s within the capability of our Universities to start from scratch and write an operating system suitable for the modern age.

The vast majority of government departments use a word processor, spreadsheet, and presentation software, browser and email, pretty basic stuff which could be fairly easily written for another OS.

But now, we have to put up with high prices, endless bug fixes and security updates that cover holes in software written decades ago.

Surely we could save millions over the years, and be more secure by ditching Microsoft and starting again ?

Yes, it would be interesting to start again

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Date: 13/03/2014 20:08:09
From: Carmen_Sandiego
ID: 503078
Subject: re: Why do governments rely so much on Microsoft ?

I believe the question you are asking is “What other options are there for the only serous OS/office suite that is compatable with every other company/government’s system globally and provides global support?”.

The answer is, of course, there is none.

All other potential software and file formats (remember, PDF is a proprietary format) do not have the marketing or compatibility the current systems do.

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Date: 13/03/2014 20:11:37
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 503082
Subject: re: Why do governments rely so much on Microsoft ?

rumpole said:


Bill Gates , Wozniak, Jobs were just three geeks when they wrote their first operating system. Of course , they had help from then on, but surely it’s within the capability of our Universities to start from scratch and write an operating system suitable for the modern age.

The vast majority of government departments use a word processor, spreadsheet, and presentation software, browser and email, pretty basic stuff which could be fairly easily written for another OS.

But now, we have to put up with high prices, endless bug fixes and security updates that cover holes in software written decades ago.

Surely we could save millions over the years, and be more secure by ditching Microsoft and starting again ?

Why start again when there are already open source and free alternatives to Windows and MS Office?

The fact is, it’s more productive for most companies to follow the mainstream and use MS products, the cost of which is negligible in the scheme of things.

Why pick on MS anyway?; it’s Apple making the exorbitant profits these days

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Date: 13/03/2014 20:11:48
From: CrazyNeutrino
ID: 503083
Subject: re: Why do governments rely so much on Microsoft ?

If a new system was designed, taking in hacking behavior, malware, virus activity etc

what would it be like?

how to design one

starting points?

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Date: 13/03/2014 20:13:10
From: Carmen_Sandiego
ID: 503086
Subject: re: Why do governments rely so much on Microsoft ?

CrazyNeutrino said:


If a new system was designed, taking in hacking behavior, malware, virus activity etc

what would it be like?

how to design one

starting points?

Ask Apple.

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Date: 13/03/2014 20:13:28
From: furious
ID: 503087
Subject: re: Why do governments rely so much on Microsoft ?

You can create, open, manipulate, save, etc. office documents in non-office products…

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Date: 13/03/2014 20:17:36
From: Carmen_Sandiego
ID: 503092
Subject: re: Why do governments rely so much on Microsoft ?

furious said:

  • The answer is, of course, there is none.

You can create, open, manipulate, save, etc. office documents in non-office products…

Yes. But but they currently not very compatible.

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Date: 13/03/2014 20:18:44
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 503095
Subject: re: Why do governments rely so much on Microsoft ?

rumpole said:


Bill Gates , Wozniak, Jobs were just three geeks when they wrote their first operating system.

Get it right. Jobs couldn’t write a program if he was held at gunpoint. He was good at developing user-friendly products though.

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Date: 13/03/2014 20:21:08
From: furious
ID: 503096
Subject: re: Why do governments rely so much on Microsoft ?

I haven’t done a full intensive comparability exercise but they work well enough for me to transfer from work (windows) to home (not windows)…

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Date: 13/03/2014 20:21:14
From: rumpole
ID: 503097
Subject: re: Why do governments rely so much on Microsoft ?

“The answer is, of course, there is none.”
===============
At the moment, that is true.

Why do we need to be compatible with every other government in the world as long as files can be converted from one format to another.

Lets face it , we are talking ones and zeros, and as Jeremy Clarkson would say “How hard can it be” ?

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Date: 13/03/2014 20:38:10
From: CrazyNeutrino
ID: 503114
Subject: re: Why do governments rely so much on Microsoft ?

having a quick look around

there seems to be a lot of ideas floating around

The future of the desktop – rendering the operating system irrelevant?

The Future of the Operating System – Cloud Computing?

Samsung looks to the future with Tizen OS

What is going to be the future of operating system

The Future of the Desktop — Rendering the Operating System Irrelevan

The future of operating systems.

Microsoft plans to merge Windows desktop, mobile and tablet operating systems

What is the future of the Mac?

Android in 2020: the future of Google’s mobile OS explored

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Date: 13/03/2014 20:38:58
From: transition
ID: 503115
Subject: re: Why do governments rely so much on Microsoft ?

since Win 98/ME upgrade, I simply refer to all Windows programs as ‘Windows Update’, version 2000, XP, Vista etc, 7. Presently running ‘Win 7 Upgrade’

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Date: 13/03/2014 20:44:10
From: rumpole
ID: 503123
Subject: re: Why do governments rely so much on Microsoft ?

CrazyNeutrino said:


having a quick look around

there seems to be a lot of ideas floating around

The future of the desktop – rendering the operating system irrelevant?

The Future of the Operating System – Cloud Computing?

Samsung looks to the future with Tizen OS

What is going to be the future of operating system

The Future of the Desktop — Rendering the Operating System Irrelevan

The future of operating systems.

Microsoft plans to merge Windows desktop, mobile and tablet operating systems

What is the future of the Mac?

Android in 2020: the future of Google’s mobile OS explored

Thanks CN, looks interesting. I’ll just slip away and not bother you for a while

:)

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Date: 13/03/2014 22:55:36
From: Teleost
ID: 503196
Subject: re: Why do governments rely so much on Microsoft ?

rumpole said:


…..The vast majority of government departments use a word processor, spreadsheet, and presentation software, browser and email, pretty basic stuff which could be fairly easily written for another OS.

Yes, they do. I would think the vast majority also have specialist software for a range of other tasks. I know every government computer I’ve ever been assigned has. Even our front desk lady has specialised software running. It would cost an absolute motza to redevelop that software for a different OS.

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Date: 13/03/2014 23:15:25
From: Soso
ID: 503201
Subject: re: Why do governments rely so much on Microsoft ?

Microsoft is the standard. Deviating from the standard could leave an IT manager’s arse exposed. At least when Microsoft stuffs up, you can say “well, we’re in the same boat as everyone else”.

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Date: 13/03/2014 23:17:32
From: Rule 303
ID: 503202
Subject: re: Why do governments rely so much on Microsoft ?

Many government and semi-government agencies are able to access software from most of the large producers at a fraction of retail price because they qualify for not-for-profit organisation discount programs.

There are many government agencies that are also charities for taxation purposes.

As an example, I can currently buy Win 8.1 32 bit Pro for $9, Microsoft Office 2013 for $26…

Else would be ridiculous.

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Date: 13/03/2014 23:31:51
From: morrie
ID: 503207
Subject: re: Why do governments rely so much on Microsoft ?

I am getting some MS Word templates created at the moment by a specialist. The power of MS Word is awesome when you see what an expert can achieve. As an example I was briefly shown something that was developed for a government organisation. It was brilliant, just the sort of thing that I need and way beyond what I could have done myself. It will pay for itself within a few months and vastly reduce my workload.

I don’t know if Open Office has such capabilities.

I think that most of us don’t use the capabilities of the MS products and in general don’t need them.

Perhaps it might be possible to have an iron-clad, low function OS and software suite for general purpose use, and a more advanced one for higher end applications?

I just pray that we don’t get locked into cloud computing and other high bandwidth things while I have such a restricted and expensive internet access.

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Date: 13/03/2014 23:39:37
From: Rule 303
ID: 503209
Subject: re: Why do governments rely so much on Microsoft ?

Hell yeah, some of the lesser-known functions of the Office suite packages are nothing short of awesome.

Australian government departments used to maintain nominal ‘no disadvantage’ access policies (that is, you could not be disadvantaged by not having access to an internet connection) but I think it’s fair to say they have effectively abandoned them.

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Date: 14/03/2014 00:20:51
From: diddly-squat
ID: 503210
Subject: re: Why do governments rely so much on Microsoft ?

Rule 303 said:


Hell yeah, some of the lesser-known functions of the Office suite packages are nothing short of awesome.

Australian government departments used to maintain nominal ‘no disadvantage’ access policies (that is, you could not be disadvantaged by not having access to an internet connection) but I think it’s fair to say they have effectively abandoned them.

governments and business rely on Microsoft desktop products because they are:

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Date: 14/03/2014 06:43:59
From: Michael V
ID: 503215
Subject: re: Why do governments rely so much on Microsoft ?

Rule 303 said:


Many government and semi-government agencies are able to access software from most of the large producers at a fraction of retail price because they qualify for not-for-profit organisation discount programs.

There are many government agencies that are also charities for taxation purposes.

As an example, I can currently buy Win 8.1 32 bit Pro for $9, Microsoft Office 2013 for $26…

Else would be ridiculous.

Now, if I could buy their products for that price, I probably would.

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Date: 14/03/2014 06:55:13
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 503216
Subject: re: Why do governments rely so much on Microsoft ?

An IT person that I know from the CSIRO (federal government) has recently switched from Microsoft to Linux. Supercomputers still rely on Linux. I’m not sure what ASIO uses, but it wouldn’t surprise me at all if all the ASIO computers didn’t use Microsoft.

Just imagine the confusion if governments of different countries used different operating systems – that would be a recipe for disaster, as disastrous as the different sides of the road that the British and French drove on in the early 1800s.

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Date: 14/03/2014 06:59:33
From: poikilotherm
ID: 503220
Subject: re: Why do governments rely so much on Microsoft ?

mollwollfumble said:


An IT person that I know from the CSIRO (federal government) has recently switched from Microsoft to Linux. Supercomputers still rely on Linux. I’m not sure what ASIO uses, but it wouldn’t surprise me at all if all the ASIO computers didn’t use Microsoft.

Just imagine the confusion if governments of different countries used different operating systems – that would be a recipe for disaster, as disastrous as the different sides of the road that the British and French drove on in the early 1800s.

They do. It’s called VMware, most users can’t tell what actual os is running the server.

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Date: 14/03/2014 09:37:00
From: rumpole
ID: 503279
Subject: re: Why do governments rely so much on Microsoft ?

mollwollfumble said:


An IT person that I know from the CSIRO (federal government) has recently switched from Microsoft to Linux. Supercomputers still rely on Linux. I’m not sure what ASIO uses, but it wouldn’t surprise me at all if all the ASIO computers didn’t use Microsoft.

Just imagine the confusion if governments of different countries used different operating systems – that would be a recipe for disaster, as disastrous as the different sides of the road that the British and French drove on in the early 1800s.

The standard is the problem.

That’s why so many government, commercial, industrial and private users are subject to hacking, fraud, data theft, industrial espionage and spying.

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Date: 14/03/2014 12:52:30
From: PM 2Ring
ID: 503316
Subject: re: Why do governments rely so much on Microsoft ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_adopters#Government

As local governments come under pressure from institutions such as the World Trade Organization and the International Intellectual Property Alliance, some have turned to Linux and other Free Software as an affordable, legal alternative to both pirated software and expensive proprietary computer products from Microsoft, Apple and other commercial companies. The spread of Linux affords some leverage for these countries when companies from the developed world bid for government contracts (since a low-cost option exists), while furnishing an alternative path to development for countries like India and Pakistan that have many citizens skilled in computer applications but cannot afford technological investment at “First World” prices.

The Government of Kerala, India, announced its official support for free/open-source software in its State IT Policy of 2001, which was formulated after the first-ever free software conference in India, “Freedom First!”, held in July 2001 in Trivandrum, the capital of Kerala, where Richard Stallman inaugurated the Free Software Foundation of India. Since then, Kerala’s IT Policy has been significantly influenced by FOSS, with several major initiatives such as IT@School Project, possibly the largest single-purpose deployment of Linux in the world, and leading to the formation of the International Centre for Free and Open Source Software (ICFOSS) in 2009.

In July 2001 the White House started switching their web servers to an operating system based on Red Hat Linux and using the Apache HTTP Server. The installation was completed in February 2009. In October 2009 the White House servers adopted Drupal, an open source content management system software distribution.

Brazil uses PC Conectado, a program utilizing Linux.

The City government of Munich chose in 2003 to start to migrate its 14,000 desktops to Debian-based LiMux. Even though more than 80% of workstations used OpenOffice and 100% used Firefox/Thunderbird five years later (November 2008), an adoption rate of Linux itself of only 20.0% (June 2010) was achieved. The effort was later reorganized, focusing on smaller deployments and winning over staff to the value of the program. By the end of 2011 the program had exceeded its goal and changed over 9000 desktops to Linux. The city of Munich reported at the end of 2012 that the migration to Linux was highly successful and has already saved the city over €11 million (US$14 million).

The United States Department of Defense uses Linux – “the U.S. Army is “the” single largest install base for Red Hat Linux” and the US Navy nuclear submarine fleet runs on Linux.

The city of Vienna has chosen to start migrating its desktop PCs to Debian-based Wienux. However, the idea was largely abandoned, because the necessary software was incompatible with Linux.

Spain was noted as the furthest along the road to Linux adoption in 2003, for example with Linux distribution LinEx

State owned Industrial and Commercial Bank of China (ICBC) is installing Linux in all of its 20,000 retail branches as the basis for its web server and a new terminal platform. (2005)

In April 2006, the US Federal Aviation Administration announced that it had completed a migration to Red Hat Enterprise Linux in one third of the scheduled time and saved 15 million dollars.

The Government of Pakistan established a Technology Resource Mobilization Unit in 2002 to enable groups of professionals to exchange views and coordinate activities in their sectors and to educate users about free software alternatives. Linux is an option for poor countries which have little revenue for public investment; Pakistan is using open source software in public schools and colleges, and hopes to run all government services on Linux eventually.

The French Parliament has switched to using Ubuntu on desktop PCs.

The Federal Employment Office of Germany (Bundesagentur für Arbeit) has migrated 13,000 public workstations from Windows NT to OpenSuse.

Czech Post migrated 4000 servers and 12,000 clients to Novell Linux in 2005

Cuba – Students from the Cuban University of Information Science launched its own distribution of Linux called Nova to promote the replacement of Microsoft Windows on civilian and government computers, a project that is now supported by the Cuban Government. By early 2011 the Universidad de Ciencias Informáticas announced that they would migrate more than 8000 PCs to this new operating system.

The Canton of Solothurn in Switzerland decided in 2001 to migrate its computers to Linux, but in 2010 the Swiss authority has made a U-turn by deciding to use Windows 7 for desktop clients.

France’s national police force, the National Gendarmerie started moving their 90,000 desktops from Windows XP to Ubuntu in 2007 over concerns about the additional training costs of moving to Windows Vista, and following the success of OpenOffice.org roll-outs. The migration should be completed by 2015. The force has saved about €50 million on software licensing between 2004 and 2008.

France’s Ministry of Agriculture uses Mandriva Linux.

Macedonia’s Ministry of Education and Science deployed more than 180,000 Ubuntu based classroom desktops, and has encouraged every student in the Republic of Macedonia to use Ubuntu computer workstations.

The People’s Republic of China exclusively uses Linux as the operating system for its Loongson processor family, with the aim of technology independence.

The US National Nuclear Security Administration operates the world’s tenth fastest supercomputer, the IBM Roadrunner, which uses Red Hat Enterprise Linux along with Fedora as its operating systems.

The regional Andalusian Autonomous Government of Andalucía in Spain developed its own Linux distribution, called Guadalinex in 2004.

The South African Social Security Agency (SASSA) deployed Multi-station Linux Desktops to address budget and infrastructure constraints in 50 rural sites.

In 2003, the Turkish government decided to create its own Linux distribution, Pardus, developed by UEKAE (National Research Institute of Electronics and Cryptology). The first version, Pardus 1.0, was officially announced in 27 December 2005.

In 2010 The Philippines fielded an Ubuntu-powered national voting system.

In July 2010 Malaysia had switched 703 of the state’s 724 agencies to Free and Open Source software with a Linux based operating system used. The Chief Secretary to the Government cited, “(the) general acceptance of its promise of better quality, higher reliability, more flexibility and lower cost”.

In late 2010 Vladimir Putin signed a plan to move the Russian Federation government towards free software including Linux in the second quarter of 2012.

The city government of Largo, Florida, USA uses Linux and has won international recognition for their implementation, indicating that it provides “extensive savings over more traditional alternatives in city-wide applications.”

Iceland has announced in March 2012 that it wishes to migrate to open source software in public institutions. Schools have already migrated from Windows to Ubuntu Linux.

In June 2012 the US Navy signed a US$27,883,883 contract with Raytheon to install Linux ground control software for its fleet of vertical take-off and landing (VTOL) Northrup-Grumman MQ8B Fire Scout drones. The contract involves Naval Air Station Patuxent River, Maryland, which has already spent $5,175,075 in preparation for the Linux systems.

In 2004 Venezuela’s government approved the 3390 decree, to give preference to using free software in public administration. One result of this policy is the development of Canaima, a Debian-based Linux distribution.

The Dutch Police Internet Research and Investigation Network (iRN) has only used free and open source software based on open standards, publicly developed with the source code available on the Internet for audit, since 2003. They use 2200 Ubuntu workstations.

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Date: 14/03/2014 13:49:47
From: rumpole
ID: 503385
Subject: re: Why do governments rely so much on Microsoft ?

PM2Ring’s post

Very interesting, at least there is some competition out there to keep the megagiants worried…

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Date: 14/03/2014 13:50:50
From: rumpole
ID: 503387
Subject: re: Why do governments rely so much on Microsoft ?

Is “Open Source” software more vulnerable to hacking ?

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Date: 14/03/2014 13:55:57
From: PM 2Ring
ID: 503389
Subject: re: Why do governments rely so much on Microsoft ?

rumpole said:


PM2Ring’s post

Very interesting, at least there is some competition out there to keep the megagiants worried…

Sort of. :) Most people think of Linux as totally free software, but there are commercial flavours of Linux out there, notably Red Hat. The software itself is still free, but you pay for high-quality support and customised development.

Also see
http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/10/the-navys-newest-warship-is-powered-by-linux/

When the USS Zumwalt (DDG 1000) puts to sea later this year, it will be different from any other ship in the Navy’s fleet in many ways. The $3.5 billon ship is designed for stealth, survivability, and firepower, and it’s packed with advanced technology. And at the heart of its operations is a virtual data center powered by off-the-shelf server hardware, various flavors of Linux, and over 6 million lines of software code.
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Date: 14/03/2014 13:59:00
From: Skunkworks
ID: 503390
Subject: re: Why do governments rely so much on Microsoft ?

PM 2Ring said:


And at the heart of its operations is a virtual data center powered by off-the-shelf server hardware, various flavors of Linux, and over 6 million lines of software code.

I was about to go pfffft at 6 million lines of code, a Mercedes S probably has more, but then I thought, maybe a million lines of Linux is worth three million lines of Microsoft and two million of Apple.

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Date: 14/03/2014 15:26:19
From: transition
ID: 503421
Subject: re: Why do governments rely so much on Microsoft ?

>I was about to go pfffft at 6 million lines of code, a Mercedes S probably has more, but then I thought, maybe a million lines of Linux is worth three million lines of Microsoft and two million of Apple.

The new way of seeing the world.

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