Nasa-funded study: industrial civilisation headed for ‘irreversible collapse’?

A new study sponsored by Nasa’s Goddard Space Flight Center has highlighted the prospect that global industrial civilisation could collapse in coming decades due to unsustainable resource exploitation and increasingly unequal wealth distribution.

Noting that warnings of ‘collapse’ are often seen to be fringe or controversial, the study attempts to make sense of compelling historical data showing that “the process of rise-and-collapse is actually a recurrent cycle found throughout history.” Cases of severe civilisational disruption due to “precipitous collapse – often lasting centuries – have been quite common.”

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There budget has been cut so much they have to turn to social research…

But did we really need to be told what is increasingly obvious ? ie that our resource consumption in unsustainable.

rumpole said:

There budget has been cut so much they have to turn to social research…

But did we really need to be told what is increasingly obvious ? ie that our resource consumption in unsustainable.

Well there is no government anywhere, or even a single international body with any influence, that is doing anything serious about it, so yes, apparently.

The Rev Dodgson said:

rumpole said:

There budget has been cut so much they have to turn to social research…

But did we really need to be told what is increasingly obvious ? ie that our resource consumption in unsustainable.

Well there is no government anywhere, or even a single international body with any influence, that is doing anything serious about it, so yes, apparently.

You are right of course, unfortunately the people who need to listen most, China and India won’t listen, neither will our government who will just consume more coal and trees.

We need governments that are more evolved, governments that have more intelligent people with the skills to see into the future, people with critical thinking skills, scientific observation, environmental observation, holistic awareness, the ability to think hundreds of years into the future, awareness of human rights.

Governments today are still in the 19th century, they lack the skills needed to take humanity into the future, people going into government need to be better educated, people need to be educated into thinking globally and thinking about environmental consequences over large time frames, long term thinkers, the ability to step back and see things from a distance to get a better overview of humanities behavior

We need governments that can be more creative thinkers and that can break away from this economic growth model, which is now looking very outdated and dangerous. We need something new, people who can form policies that recognize the current situation and that can move us into the future, policies that embrace renewable energy, policies that embrace sustainability, policies that embrace population control, policies that embrace economic equality, policies that embrace 100 percent recycling of white goods, cars, computers, tablets, smartphones, av equipment.

Our governments are not good enough, they contain people who are short term thinkers, people who come in from the suburbs to make law but have very little training in making law, our governments need to change, we need to change this government model where only a few politicians are barristers and solicitors who pull the strings, people going into politics need better understanding in making law and policies, we need to change this outdated party structure……

So you can see, its going to be very difficult to get this change when most people in politics are still 19th century thinkers, that needs to change.

paces up and down, yes I worry a lot.

CrazyNeutrino said:

We need governments that are more evolved, governments that have more intelligent people with the skills to see into the future, people with critical thinking skills, scientific observation, environmental observation, holistic awareness, the ability to think hundreds of years into the future, awareness of human rights.

Governments today are still in the 19th century, they lack the skills needed to take humanity into the future, people going into government need to be better educated, people need to be educated into thinking globally and thinking about environmental consequences over large time frames, long term thinkers, the ability to step back and see things from a distance to get a better overview of humanities behavior

We need governments that can be more creative thinkers and that can break away from this economic growth model, which is now looking very outdated and dangerous. We need something new, people who can form policies that recognize the current situation and that can move us into the future, policies that embrace renewable energy, policies that embrace sustainability, policies that embrace population control, policies that embrace economic equality, policies that embrace 100 percent recycling of white goods, cars, computers, tablets, smartphones, av equipment.

Our governments are not good enough, they contain people who are short term thinkers, people who come in from the suburbs to make law but have very little training in making law, our governments need to change, we need to change this government model where only a few politicians are barristers and solicitors who pull the strings, people going into politics need better understanding in making law and policies, we need to change this outdated party structure……

So you can see, its going to be very difficult to get this change when most people in politics are still 19th century thinkers, that needs to change.

paces up and down, yes I worry a lot.

You do see that the problem is exacerbated by clever people never reaching government and instead becoming armchair politicians.

Regards the possibility of a global systems crash, or cascade resulting in, it is not on the near horizon at all, because the adaptive aspects of that presently are built from accepting lots of smaller collapses being an aspect of what is, essentially parrying against a global collapse. There’s always an old lady somewhere collapsing, a building, a tree, a business, the enterprise of life is built on collapse in a sense.

There is an argument larger populations and internationalization of sorts result in a joint investment and commitment to keeping it working, it’s like insurance. It’s somewhat fluid too.

Stratification is essential, not the enemy. A stratification profile is essential.

If there is an enemy tending collapse, it probably will be a silent thing, mostly in the encroachments on individuals low-energy-consumption-downtime-environments, which is mostly individuals homes (well, it ought be, allowed). More from those in the lower-middle, middle and middle-upper strata, toward those in the (relatively speaking, being the danger) lower strata. The (dissembled) resentments of the ambitious, they will increasingly have less downtime at home, absorb the worldly but have less of a ‘personalized’ home life. In a sense they will be ‘overworked’, loosely speaking but that needs qualifications.

The biggest dangers IMO are from the ideological reciprocal expectational projections to do with standard of living between the strata magnified and distorted. Fairly much what the article both does and misses in the explicit.

transition said:

Regards the possibility of a global systems crash, or cascade resulting in, it is not on the near horizon at all, because the adaptive aspects of that presently are built from accepting lots of smaller collapses being an aspect of what is, essentially parrying against a global collapse. There’s always an old lady somewhere collapsing, a building, a tree, a business, the enterprise of life is built on collapse in a sense.

There is an argument larger populations and internationalization of sorts result in a joint investment and commitment to keeping it working, it’s like insurance. It’s somewhat fluid too.

Stratification is essential, not the enemy. A stratification profile is essential.

If there is an enemy tending collapse, it probably will be a silent thing, mostly in the encroachments on individuals low-energy-consumption-downtime-environments, which is mostly individuals homes (well, it ought be, allowed). More from those in the lower-middle, middle and middle-upper strata, toward those in the (relatively speaking, being the danger) lower strata. The (dissembled) resentments of the ambitious, they will increasingly have less downtime at home, absorb the worldly but have less of a ‘personalized’ home life. In a sense they will be ‘overworked’, loosely speaking but that needs qualifications.

The biggest dangers IMO are from the ideological reciprocal expectational projections to do with standard of living between the strata magnified and distorted. Fairly much what the article both does and misses in the explicit.

I wish I had your way with words

roughbarked said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

We need governments that are more evolved, governments that have more intelligent people with the skills to see into the future, people with critical thinking skills, scientific observation, environmental observation, holistic awareness, the ability to think hundreds of years into the future, awareness of human rights.

Governments today are still in the 19th century, they lack the skills needed to take humanity into the future, people going into government need to be better educated, people need to be educated into thinking globally and thinking about environmental consequences over large time frames, long term thinkers, the ability to step back and see things from a distance to get a better overview of humanities behavior

We need governments that can be more creative thinkers and that can break away from this economic growth model, which is now looking very outdated and dangerous. We need something new, people who can form policies that recognize the current situation and that can move us into the future, policies that embrace renewable energy, policies that embrace sustainability, policies that embrace population control, policies that embrace economic equality, policies that embrace 100 percent recycling of white goods, cars, computers, tablets, smartphones, av equipment.

Our governments are not good enough, they contain people who are short term thinkers, people who come in from the suburbs to make law but have very little training in making law, our governments need to change, we need to change this government model where only a few politicians are barristers and solicitors who pull the strings, people going into politics need better understanding in making law and policies, we need to change this outdated party structure……

So you can see, its going to be very difficult to get this change when most people in politics are still 19th century thinkers, that needs to change.

paces up and down, yes I worry a lot.

You do see that the problem is exacerbated by clever people never reaching government and instead becoming armchair politicians.

Well, a lot of clever people become scientists, its in their nature. The science community perhaps needs to set up a world wide organization through the United Nations to really push change in Governments around the world to include more intelligent people who can address these urgent social, sustainable and environmental issues.

I am a visual artist, I have aspergers, one of the things with aspergers is logical and ethical problems bother us, you can imagine my pain, lol, I also have good observation.

CrazyNeutrino said:

roughbarked said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

We need governments that are more evolved, governments that have more intelligent people with the skills to see into the future, people with critical thinking skills, scientific observation, environmental observation, holistic awareness, the ability to think hundreds of years into the future, awareness of human rights.

Governments today are still in the 19th century, they lack the skills needed to take humanity into the future, people going into government need to be better educated, people need to be educated into thinking globally and thinking about environmental consequences over large time frames, long term thinkers, the ability to step back and see things from a distance to get a better overview of humanities behavior

We need governments that can be more creative thinkers and that can break away from this economic growth model, which is now looking very outdated and dangerous. We need something new, people who can form policies that recognize the current situation and that can move us into the future, policies that embrace renewable energy, policies that embrace sustainability, policies that embrace population control, policies that embrace economic equality, policies that embrace 100 percent recycling of white goods, cars, computers, tablets, smartphones, av equipment.

Our governments are not good enough, they contain people who are short term thinkers, people who come in from the suburbs to make law but have very little training in making law, our governments need to change, we need to change this government model where only a few politicians are barristers and solicitors who pull the strings, people going into politics need better understanding in making law and policies, we need to change this outdated party structure……

So you can see, its going to be very difficult to get this change when most people in politics are still 19th century thinkers, that needs to change.

paces up and down, yes I worry a lot.

You do see that the problem is exacerbated by clever people never reaching government and instead becoming armchair politicians.

Well, a lot of clever people become scientists, its in their nature. The science community perhaps needs to set up a world wide organization through the United Nations to really push change in Governments around the world to include more intelligent people who can address these urgent social, sustainable and environmental issues.

I am a visual artist, I have aspergers, one of the things with aspergers is logical and ethical problems bother us, you can imagine my pain, lol, I also have good observation.

I feel your pain. I do wish I actually had something to blame other than an invisible disability.

“The science community perhaps needs to set up a world wide organization through the United Nations to really push change in Governments around the world to include more intelligent people who can address these urgent social, sustainable and environmental issues.”
==============
I thought it was called UNESCO

There’s is a theme about war, of persons being kept from home, keeping others away from home, destroying homes, kept from the daily thing of bringing it all home, so probably anyone looking to the future, what it holds, maybe look to this theme and what of ‘civilization and collapse’ might result in that.

rumpole said:

“The science community perhaps needs to set up a world wide organization through the United Nations to really push change in Governments around the world to include more intelligent people who can address these urgent social, sustainable and environmental issues.”
==============
I thought it was called UNESCO

Ok, UNESCO, thanks for that

Ive now done some reading up on UNESCO

will now think some more….

CrazyNeutrino said:

Ive now done some reading up on UNESCO

will now think some more….

Tell Tony about it.. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-17/abbott-recommits-to-delisting-tas-forests-with-new-liberal-govt/5324926?section=australianetworknews

His forestry renaissance..

CrazyNeutrino said:

Ive now done some reading up on UNESCO

will now think some more….

Trouble always is, that governments have to fund these things and can presumably opt in or out when it suits them.

rumpole said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

Ive now done some reading up on UNESCO

will now think some more….

Trouble always is, that governments have to fund these things and can presumably opt in or out when it suits them.

So, the voters need to be better informed by accurate independent information. Government funding of info-surveys should be at least partly redirected to such as UNESCO for their use.

roughbarked said:

rumpole said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

Ive now done some reading up on UNESCO

will now think some more….

Trouble always is, that governments have to fund these things and can presumably opt in or out when it suits them.

So, the voters need to be better informed by accurate independent information. Government funding of info-surveys should be at least partly redirected to such as UNESCO for their use.

Agree

roughbarked said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

Ive now done some reading up on UNESCO

will now think some more….

Tell Tony about it.. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-17/abbott-recommits-to-delisting-tas-forests-with-new-liberal-govt/5324926?section=australianetworknews

His forestry renaissance..

The Liberals are looking environmentally destructive

for short term financial gain

CrazyNeutrino said:

roughbarked said:

rumpole said:

Trouble always is, that governments have to fund these things and can presumably opt in or out when it suits them.

So, the voters need to be better informed by accurate independent information. Government funding of info-surveys should be at least partly redirected to such as UNESCO for their use.

Agree

Abbott would call that; yet another great big tax burden.

CrazyNeutrino said:

roughbarked said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

Ive now done some reading up on UNESCO

will now think some more….

Tell Tony about it.. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-17/abbott-recommits-to-delisting-tas-forests-with-new-liberal-govt/5324926?section=australianetworknews

His forestry renaissance..

The Liberals are looking environmentally destructive

for short term financial gain

When did they ever look further? Thy lie under the umbrella of false conservatism.

Sweet!!

I’d better dust off my “ the end is nigh “ placard

( I just knew I’d need it one day)

> A new study sponsored by Nasa’s Goddard Space Flight Center has highlighted the prospect that global industrial civilisation could collapse in coming decades due to unsustainable resource exploitation and increasingly unequal wealth distribution.

Well, this just goes to show that what was said two threads down is correct: “Peak Rationality. Some time around 1980.”

This neo-Malthusian study is just an ill-informed rehash of “The limits to growth” by the Club of Rome, which said the same thing in 1972. With only the possible exception of oil and gas, resources really are unlimited and as price rises so recycling increases. As for “increasingly unequal wealth”, that’s bullshit, because wealth distribution worldwide has become continuously more uniform since at least the 1700s.

Seem to remember reading something in the early ’70s that if the worlds population growth was left unchecked, the diameter of the Earth would be increaseing at the speed of light, made up of humans.

Chicken casserole now in the oven. I’ll add the rice in an hour or so.

Bubblecar said:

Chicken casserole now in the oven. I’ll add the rice in an hour or so.

Needless to say, that was intended for Chat

bob(from black rock) said:

Seem to remember reading something in the early ’70s that if the worlds population growth was left unchecked, the diameter of the Earth would be increaseing at the speed of light, made up of humans.

Bad science there. As you approach light speed your mass increases enormously thus increasing your density & killing you so you can’t reproduce.

Tamb said:

bob(from black rock) said:

Seem to remember reading something in the early ’70s that if the worlds population growth was left unchecked, the diameter of the Earth would be increaseing at the speed of light, made up of humans.

Bad science there. As you approach light speed your mass increases enormously thus increasing your density & killing you so you can’t reproduce.

So you will just have to f*ck faster

*flings off clothes *

Monica: Wow! That was really fast!
Chandler: It bodes well for me that speed impresses you.