Last couple of times I’ve come back from an international trip, I’ve developed a respiratory infection (usually head cold) within a week. I’ve concluded that the passenger compartment of an aircraft is a filthy environment. I see people coughing and sneezing over the fold-down trays. I see crud on the floor in the toilets. From time to time I see people changing kids’ nappies on the seats or on the fold-down trays.

My understanding is that the cleaning or airliners is cursory. Just a tidy up and re-fold the blankets. I doubt the fold-down trays are sanitised. I doubt the toilets are properly cleaned.

Anyone have a point of view or first hand / expert knowledge of this? How often does the passenger compartment undergo a thorough clean? The small amount of information I can find on the net is not reassuring.

pesce.del.giorno said:

Last couple of times I’ve come back from an international trip, I’ve developed a respiratory infection (usually head cold) within a week. I’ve concluded that the passenger compartment of an aircraft is a filthy environment. I see people coughing and sneezing over the fold-down trays. I see crud on the floor in the toilets. From time to time I see people changing kids’ nappies on the seats or on the fold-down trays.

My understanding is that the cleaning or airliners is cursory. Just a tidy up and re-fold the blankets. I doubt the fold-down trays are sanitised. I doubt the toilets are properly cleaned.

Anyone have a point of view or first hand / expert knowledge of this? How often does the passenger compartment undergo a thorough clean? The small amount of information I can find on the net is not reassuring.

My experience and opinions are the same as yours.

Whether it is realistically possible to reduce the incidence of transfer of disease, I don’t know. I suspect that sitting up the front helps quite a bit.

You’re being exposed to virii that your immune system has not seen before, hence getting sick on every flight. Cleanliness would do little to reduce this IMO as diffusion would mean you’d be sucking in the air someone else breathed out numerous times while aboard, plenty of chance for exposure.

They’re probably not much different from any other public space. Even if the cabin is cleaned meticulously, the scarves / ties / jewelery / ID tags on the Hosties will be likely disease vectors.

Keeping you fingers away from your holes should go a long way to preventing the cross of anything that’s not airbourne.

Pesce, if you’ve got access to an ATP meter, hand out ten sample collection tubes to each of fifty people at an airport one day. Ask them to take samples from ten random spots on their plane, record some basic information about the test site, and mail the tubes back to you.

:-)

Funny thing is I usually get crook on the return long haul rather than the outgoing long haul.
On arriving in London I usually go and get a belly full of beer and then have a nice big long sleep and after that I’m as good as gold Jacko, good as gold.
The return trip is usually a nightmare and I’m full of lurgie before I even hit customs and I usually have a shed load of things to do and I’m grumpy and sleepy and sneezy and dopey.

Peak Warming Man said:

Funny thing is I usually get crook on the return long haul rather than the outgoing long haul.
On arriving in London I usually go and get a belly full of beer and then have a nice big long sleep and after that I’m as good as gold Jacko, good as gold.
The return trip is usually a nightmare and I’m full of lurgie before I even hit customs and I usually have a shed load of things to do and I’m grumpy and sleepy and sneezy and dopey.

Nice story. Needs more Boilers.

:-)

Rule 303 said:

Peak Warming Man said:

Funny thing is I usually get crook on the return long haul rather than the outgoing long haul.
On arriving in London I usually go and get a belly full of beer and then have a nice big long sleep and after that I’m as good as gold Jacko, good as gold.
The return trip is usually a nightmare and I’m full of lurgie before I even hit customs and I usually have a shed load of things to do and I’m grumpy and sleepy and sneezy and dopey.

Nice story. Needs more Boilers.

:-)

Yes quite, what I’m interested in is if other people get crook predominantly on the homeward flight as well.
If so we can then start a series of discussions as to why and even postulate a theory and make the forum a truly cross training Science/Holiday forum.

Peak Warming Man said:

Rule 303 said:

Peak Warming Man said:

Funny thing is I usually get crook on the return long haul rather than the outgoing long haul.
On arriving in London I usually go and get a belly full of beer and then have a nice big long sleep and after that I’m as good as gold Jacko, good as gold.
The return trip is usually a nightmare and I’m full of lurgie before I even hit customs and I usually have a shed load of things to do and I’m grumpy and sleepy and sneezy and dopey.

Nice story. Needs more Boilers.

:-)

Yes quite, what I’m interested in is if other people get crook predominantly on the homeward flight as well.
If so we can then start a series of discussions as to why and even postulate a theory and make the forum a truly cross training Science/Holiday forum.

it’s fair to say that on a return flight you are probably fatigued and more susceptible to disease.

There was an article on news.com (?)about this recently and the ‘source’ (an alleged airline host/steward/attendant – whatever they call themselves now) confirmed almost all of the OP.

it wasn’t a news.com article, it was on another site..

here is the extract
20. A flight attendant reveals just how dirty everything truly is.

I worked for Southwest as a flight attendant. Those blankets and pillows? Yeah, those just get refolded and stuffed back in the bins between flights. Only fresh ones I ever saw were on an originating first flight in the morning in a provisioning city. Also, if you have ever spread your peanuts on your tray and eaten, or really just touched your tray at all, you have more than likely ingested baby poo. I saw more dirty diapers laid out on those trays than food. And those trays, yeah, never saw them cleaned or sanitized once.
- See more at: http://viralquake.com/2014/03/24/30-pilots-and-flight-attendants-confess-the-best-kept-secrets-you-dont-know-about-flying/#sthash.mcJxuXih.dpuf

The drinking water, that used for making coffee, tea, etc., should NEVER be consumed. The holding tanks in these sometimes 60 year old planes are never cleaned. They have accumulated so much greenish grime on the walls that in some places it can be inches thick.

This one is very known by all airline employees.

and

28. Even the headphones that come wrapped up aren’t new.

I used to work for warehouse that supplied a certain airline with items. The headsets that are given to you are not new, despite being wrapped up. They are taken off the flight, “cleaned”, and then packaged again.

Arts said:

The drinking water, that used for making coffee, tea, etc., should NEVER be consumed. The holding tanks in these sometimes 60 year old planes are never cleaned. They have accumulated so much greenish grime on the walls that in some places it can be inches thick.

Which airline uses planes built in 1954?

The Rev Dodgson said:

Arts said:

The drinking water, that used for making coffee, tea, etc., should NEVER be consumed. The holding tanks in these sometimes 60 year old planes are never cleaned. They have accumulated so much greenish grime on the walls that in some places it can be inches thick.

Which airline uses planes built in 1954?

the one that the author rode on last… the one with bad coffee

Arts said:

Peak Warming Man said:

Rule 303 said:

Nice story. Needs more Boilers.

:-)

Yes quite, what I’m interested in is if other people get crook predominantly on the homeward flight as well.
If so we can then start a series of discussions as to why and even postulate a theory and make the forum a truly cross training Science/Holiday forum.

it’s fair to say that on a return flight you are probably fatigued and more susceptible to disease.

There was an article on news.com (?)about this recently and the ‘source’ (an alleged airline host/steward/attendant – whatever they call themselves now) confirmed almost all of the OP.

geography may also be an issue here… on the first leg of an international flight you are more likely to be surrounded by persons from the same location as yourself – meaning you have also been exposed to similar illnesses. On the return leg you are more likely to be surrounded by persons from other regions and as a result may not have lower levels of immunity to their regional bugs/virus variants.

Peak Warming Man said:

Funny thing is I usually get crook on the return long haul rather than the outgoing long haul.
On arriving in London I usually go and get a belly full of beer and then have a nice big long sleep and after that I’m as good as gold Jacko, good as gold.
The return trip is usually a nightmare and I’m full of lurgie before I even hit customs and I usually have a shed load of things to do and I’m grumpy and sleepy and sneezy and dopey.

I also find it easier to adapt to the timezone when flying west, as opposed to the typical return legs back to Australia where you are flying east.

diddly-squat said:

geography may also be an issue here… on the first leg of an international flight you are more likely to be surrounded by persons from the same location as yourself – meaning you have also been exposed to similar illnesses. On the return leg you are more likely to be surrounded by persons from other regions and as a result may not have lower levels of immunity to their regional bugs/virus variants.

I don’t think that works. Since the majority of people travelling return to their point of departure eventually, on average the composition of the passengers is likely to be much the same on outward and inward flights.

diddly-squat said:

Peak Warming Man said:

Funny thing is I usually get crook on the return long haul rather than the outgoing long haul.
On arriving in London I usually go and get a belly full of beer and then have a nice big long sleep and after that I’m as good as gold Jacko, good as gold.
The return trip is usually a nightmare and I’m full of lurgie before I even hit customs and I usually have a shed load of things to do and I’m grumpy and sleepy and sneezy and dopey.

I also find it easier to adapt to the timezone when flying west, as opposed to the typical return legs back to Australia where you are flying east.

Also, assuming a trip in the N Hemisphere summer, the weather on return may have some effect.

But I think it’s mainly being grumpy and sleepy makes you sneezy and dopey, rather than vice versa.

The Rev Dodgson said:

diddly-squat said:

geography may also be an issue here… on the first leg of an international flight you are more likely to be surrounded by persons from the same location as yourself – meaning you have also been exposed to similar illnesses. On the return leg you are more likely to be surrounded by persons from other regions and as a result may not have lower levels of immunity to their regional bugs/virus variants.

I don’t think that works. Since the majority of people travelling return to their point of departure eventually, on average the composition of the passengers is likely to be much the same on outward and inward flights.

maybe… it would be interesting to see some stats but I think the actual makeup would vary considerably from flight to flight…

The Rev Dodgson said:

diddly-squat said:

Peak Warming Man said:

Funny thing is I usually get crook on the return long haul rather than the outgoing long haul.
On arriving in London I usually go and get a belly full of beer and then have a nice big long sleep and after that I’m as good as gold Jacko, good as gold.
The return trip is usually a nightmare and I’m full of lurgie before I even hit customs and I usually have a shed load of things to do and I’m grumpy and sleepy and sneezy and dopey.

I also find it easier to adapt to the timezone when flying west, as opposed to the typical return legs back to Australia where you are flying east.

Also, assuming a trip in the N Hemisphere summer, the weather on return may have some effect.

But I think it’s mainly being grumpy and sleepy makes you sneezy and dopey, rather than vice versa.

agreed…

Anyway, don’t be too bashful to see the doc, and he’ll make you happy again.

diddly-squat said:

Peak Warming Man said:

Funny thing is I usually get crook on the return long haul rather than the outgoing long haul.
On arriving in London I usually go and get a belly full of beer and then have a nice big long sleep and after that I’m as good as gold Jacko, good as gold.
The return trip is usually a nightmare and I’m full of lurgie before I even hit customs and I usually have a shed load of things to do and I’m grumpy and sleepy and sneezy and dopey.

I also find it easier to adapt to the timezone when flying west, as opposed to the typical return legs back to Australia where you are flying east.

Good observation. As far as jet lag is concerned, “best is west”, since travelling west lengthens the diurnal cycle. The body clock adapts better to an expanded diurnal cycle rather than to a contracted one.

I had no idea that dwarves had so many different names:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_names_of_the_Seven_Dwarfs

I don’t have this problem.

“Taken as a whole, the evidence appears to suggest
that aircraft passengers do indeed develop colds with
a higher than normal frequency in the week following
their flights. However, this seems more likely to be
due to the depressed humidity of cabin air or to an
inadequate provision of outside air, than to its
recirculation. Substantial overlap of personal air
spaces causing mixing of these, and high person-toperson
contact could also be factors, as explained
earlier.”

http://www.cieh.org/library/Knowledge/Public_health/JEHR/JEHRVol3Iss1-CommonColdAircraft.pdf

Arts said:

28. Even the headphones that come wrapped up aren’t new.

I used to work for warehouse that supplied a certain airline with items. The headsets that are given to you are not new, despite being wrapped up. They are taken off the flight, “cleaned”, and then packaged again.

Same as the wrapped 3D glasses at the cinema. I wonder if anyone actually thinks they’re using a new pair?

The Rev Dodgson said:

I had no idea that dwarves had so many different names:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_names_of_the_Seven_Dwarfs

Tangent: in the original story, none of them had names.

diddly-squat said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

diddly-squat said:

geography may also be an issue here… on the first leg of an international flight you are more likely to be surrounded by persons from the same location as yourself – meaning you have also been exposed to similar illnesses. On the return leg you are more likely to be surrounded by persons from other regions and as a result may not have lower levels of immunity to their regional bugs/virus variants.

I don’t think that works. Since the majority of people travelling return to their point of departure eventually, on average the composition of the passengers is likely to be much the same on outward and inward flights.

Yes.

I can only speak from my limited recent experience travelling to cities in China. I had the dreaded flu-like symptoms just after boarding the plane and figured I had been infected by the crowds on the trains/parks/places of interest. There is no such thing as personal space over there and I assume in many other countries in that region.

maybe… it would be interesting to see some stats but I think the actual makeup would vary considerably from flight to flight…

The Rev Dodgson said:

Which airline uses planes built in 1954?

ShortStop Jet Charter in Melbourne, I’m planning on flying in their DC3 I September.

huey said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Which airline uses planes built in 1954?

ShortStop Jet Charter in Melbourne, I’m planning on flying in their DC3 I September.

OK

Don’t drink the water and don’t breath the air.

The Rev Dodgson said:

huey said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Which airline uses planes built in 1954?

ShortStop Jet Charter in Melbourne, I’m planning on flying in their DC3 I September.

OK

Don’t drink the water and don’t breath the air.

Or board the plane

huey said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Which airline uses planes built in 1954?

ShortStop Jet Charter in Melbourne, I’m planning on flying in their DC3 I September.

A DC3 isn’t really a jet though, unless it has an after-market conversion to turbo-props, but then it’s not really a DC3 any more. False advertising in the name, I’m ringing the authorities.

The Rev Dodgson said:

huey said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Which airline uses planes built in 1954?

ShortStop Jet Charter in Melbourne, I’m planning on flying in their DC3 I September.

OK

Don’t drink the water and don’t breath the air.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mvYec6AnCU

party_pants said:

huey said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Which airline uses planes built in 1954?

ShortStop Jet Charter in Melbourne, I’m planning on flying in their DC3 I September.

A DC3 isn’t really a jet though, unless it has an after-market conversion to turbo-props, but then it’s not really a DC3 any more. False advertising in the name, I’m ringing the authorities.

I’ve been on a DC3 quite few times.

Noisy bloody things.

Last time I took a ride on a DC-3, the Baird Televisor installed on the back of the seat in front was on the Fritz, and there was way too much phlogiston in the fuselage.

The cheapest flight I’ve been on was on a budget flight as the rear gunner

wookiemeister said:

The cheapest flight I’ve been on was on a budget flight as the rear gunner

I was gunner do that too, but I couldn’t raze the chasing plane.

It’s only a matter of time before someone makes a huge fortune selling Rhinofilters – nose plugs that work like expanding foam ear plugs but made from a filter medium that traps or neutralises pathogens.

You know it makes sense….

never seen a Rhino on a plane ;)

Dropbear said:

never seen a Rhino on a plane ;)

You obviously haven’t flown into King Abdulaziz.

;-)

Rule 303 said:

Dropbear said:

never seen a Rhino on a plane ;)

You obviously haven’t flown into King Abdulaziz.

;-)

Do you smoke Camel? Yes , but I do not inhale..

Speaking of Camels…

It is important to remember that since the banning of smoking on planes, the air quality has gone down…

Mr Ironic said:

Speaking of Camels…

It is important to remember that since the banning of smoking on planes, the air quality has gone down…

Do you mean they change the air less often?

Do you mean they change the air less often?
———————————————-

Well it is certainly filtered less often and less well.

It stands to reason that replacement due to odor would also be less.

Mr Ironic said:

Speaking of Camels…

It is important to remember that since the banning of smoking on planes, the air quality has gone down…

In Beijing air quality very bad

pommiejohn said:

Mr Ironic said:

Speaking of Camels…

It is important to remember that since the banning of smoking on planes, the air quality has gone down…

Do they recycle the air or bring in fresh air or do a bit of both?

there could be some trade off with heating fresh air all the time using more energy

or they might be resorting to recycling and scrubbing/filtering the recycling air

do they using oxygen tanks or bring in fresh air?

Do you mean they change the air less often?

CrazyNeutrino said:

pommiejohn said:

Mr Ironic said:

Speaking of Camels…

It is important to remember that since the banning of smoking on planes, the air quality has gone down…

Do you mean they change the air less often?

Do they recycle the air or bring in fresh air or do a bit of both?

there could be some trade off with heating fresh air all the time using more energy

or they might be resorting to recycling and scrubbing/filtering the recycling air

do they using oxygen tanks or bring in fresh air?

>It is important to remember that since the banning of smoking on planes, the air quality has gone down…

Air quality has been going down ever since they put walls and roofs on them.

Bubblecar said:

>It is important to remember that since the banning of smoking on planes, the air quality has gone down…

Air quality has been going down ever since they put walls and roofs on them.

but altitude has gone up.. you can’t have it all

Do they recycle the air or bring in fresh air or do a bit of both?

there could be some trade off with heating fresh air all the time using more energy

or they might be resorting to recycling and scrubbing/filtering the recycling air

do they using oxygen tanks or bring in fresh air?

Do you mean they change the air less often?
——————————————————————

Pretty much all of the above.

Economics V’s passenger comfort/fatigue/drowsiness

Yet of course the pilots get better air…

And they get free tickets, go figure.

>How often does the passenger compartment undergo a thorough clean?

I don’t know how often they do it, but I was watching a show on TV the other day where they showed an aircraft being completely stripped out and cleaned. Inside the panels was a large amount of white dust. I can’t recall the exact amount, but something like 20kg.

They explained that this was mainly flakes of human skin.