Bubblecar tells me that acoustic guitars now come with a little electronic gizmo built in, so that you can plug them into your computer and record the music without using an external microphone.

My question is, how is this possible whilst retaining the acoustic guitar sound? I presume the sound made by a guitar is a result of the interaction of the strings, the body of the guitar, the internal cavity and openings, and the external space. How is it possible for an electronic device within the instrument to pick up all that?

He was pissed.

Peak Warming Man said:

He was pissed.

Possibly true, but I’m not sure that it is an adequate explanation for the observations.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Bubblecar tells me that acoustic guitars now come with a little electronic gizmo built in, so that you can plug them into your computer and record the music without using an external microphone.

My question is, how is this possible whilst retaining the acoustic guitar sound? I presume the sound made by a guitar is a result of the interaction of the strings, the body of the guitar, the internal cavity and openings, and the external space. How is it possible for an electronic device within the instrument to pick up all that?

Magnetic or piezoelectris with steel string guitars (similar to full electric). Classical guitars with nylon strings use a microphone arrangement in the body.

As with everything go pay for what you get, the range of quality is wide. They have also been aroung for many years. I’ve used one type 30 odd years ago, so they’re not new.

jjjust moi said:

Magnetic or piezoelectris with steel string guitars (similar to full electric). Classical guitars with nylon strings use a microphone arrangement in the body.

As with everything go pay for what you get, the range of quality is wide. They have also been aroung for many years. I’ve used one type 30 odd years ago, so they’re not new.

But the question is, if the mechanism is the same as with an electric guitar, why don’t they come out sounding like an electric guitar?

The Rev Dodgson said:

jjjust moi said:

Magnetic or piezoelectris with steel string guitars (similar to full electric). Classical guitars with nylon strings use a microphone arrangement in the body.

As with everything go pay for what you get, the range of quality is wide. They have also been aroung for many years. I’ve used one type 30 odd years ago, so they’re not new.

But the question is, if the mechanism is the same as with an electric guitar, why don’t they come out sounding like an electric guitar?

The string vibration is different with magnetics. As for microphone, well that should be self explanatary.

The Rev Dodgson said:

jjjust moi said:

Magnetic or piezoelectris with steel string guitars (similar to full electric). Classical guitars with nylon strings use a microphone arrangement in the body.

As with everything go pay for what you get, the range of quality is wide. They have also been aroung for many years. I’ve used one type 30 odd years ago, so they’re not new.

But the question is, if the mechanism is the same as with an electric guitar, why don’t they come out sounding like an electric guitar?

The mechanism isn’t the same… and electric guitar works by vibrating a steel string over an electromagnetic pickup to create sound. An electric acoustic guitar works using a piezoelectric pickup to turn the vibrations in the body of the guitar into sound.

diddly-squat said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

jjjust moi said:

Magnetic or piezoelectris with steel string guitars (similar to full electric). Classical guitars with nylon strings use a microphone arrangement in the body.

As with everything go pay for what you get, the range of quality is wide. They have also been aroung for many years. I’ve used one type 30 odd years ago, so they’re not new.

But the question is, if the mechanism is the same as with an electric guitar, why don’t they come out sounding like an electric guitar?

The mechanism isn’t the same… and electric guitar works by vibrating a steel string over an electromagnetic pickup to create sound. An electric acoustic guitar works using a piezoelectric pickup to turn the vibrations in the body of the guitar into sound.

OK, so it’s not surprising that electric acoustic sounds different to solid electric, but it still seems surprising to me that it doesn’t sound different to non-electric acoustic.

jjjust moi said:

As for microphone, well that should be self explanatary.

If I thought it was self explanatory, I wouldn’t have asked the question.

It seems surprising to me that the air vibrations at a point inside the guitar are sufficiently similar to those several feet away outside the guitar, that the sound is very similar.

The Rev Dodgson said:

diddly-squat said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

But the question is, if the mechanism is the same as with an electric guitar, why don’t they come out sounding like an electric guitar?

The mechanism isn’t the same… and electric guitar works by vibrating a steel string over an electromagnetic pickup to create sound. An electric acoustic guitar works using a piezoelectric pickup to turn the vibrations in the body of the guitar into sound.

OK, so it’s not surprising that electric acoustic sounds different to solid electric, but it still seems surprising to me that it doesn’t sound different to non-electric acoustic.

It can, depending on the amp you are using and the graphic equaliser settings.

Pretty well all of them have a GE.

This doesn’t answer the question, but is still QI

The Rev Dodgson said:

This doesn’t answer the question, but is still QI

That type that came out in the late 70s were popular for a while, mainly for the “new” sound from the fibreglass body, Neil Diamond was a user.

Kaman still make guitars, but I think have been bought out.

The fibreglass thing is rarely seen much today.

Interesting topic :)

Had to do a search

there a few YouTube videos to look at (the 3 last links at the bottom of the list) and the side links will be interesting to look at too

an-introduction-to-pickups

How many guitar pickup types are there?

What’s In a Pickup?

How Electric Guitars Work

Pickup (music technology)

A Guide To The Main Electric Guitar Pickup Types

difference between single coil and humbucker pickups

HOW TO CHOOSE AN ACOUSTIC PICKUP

Support > Find Your Tone > Pickups 101 Part 2: Pickup Types

All About Acoustic Guitar Pickups – Introduction from Acoustic Guitar

Crash Course on Guitar Pickups + Demo of the Spear NSG Relic

Single Coil Pickups vs. Humbucker pickups in Electric Guitars D

Here are some Acoustic guitar comparisons and explanations

How to choose an acoustic pickup – Acoustic Piezo vs Soundhole

Acoustic Pickup Comparison – K&K Trinity system, condenser

Guitar Pickups 101: How Guitar Pickups Work – Tech Bench

Best Acoustic Guitar Pickup – Woody SA3SC & AXL Acoustic

Brad Davis Demonstrates a Takamine TRI-AX Acoustic Guitar

Acoustic Pickup Comparison — K&K Pure Mini, Fishman Infinity,

In the example of the guitar I’ve ordered it’s an under-saddle piezo pickup that measures the vibrations of the soundboard and transfers them to a pre-amp.

Guitar I’ve ordered: http://www.cortguitars.com/au/product/l100f

Piezoelectric pickups

Many semi-acoustic and acoustic guitars, and some electric guitars and basses, have been fitted with piezoelectric pickups instead of, or in addition to, magnetic pickups. These have a very different sound, and also have the advantage of not picking up any other magnetic fields, such as mains hum and feedback from monitoring loops. In hybrid guitars, this system allows switching between magnetic pickup and piezo sounds, or simultaneously blending the output. Solid bodied guitars with only a piezo pickup are known as silent guitars, which are usually used for practicing by acoustic guitarists. Piezo pickups can be also built into electric guitar bridges for conversion of existing instruments.

Most pickups for bowed string instruments, such as cello, violin, and double bass, are piezoelectric. These may be inlaid into the bridge, laid between the bridge feet and the top of the instrument, or, less frequently, wedged under a wing of the bridge. Some pickups are fastened to the top of the instrument with removable putty.

Preamps

Piezoelectric pickups have a very high output impedance and appear as a capacitance in series with a voltage source. They therefore often have an instrument-mounted buffer amplifier fitted to maximize frequency response.

The piezo pickup gives a very wide frequency range output compared to the magnetic types and can give large amplitude signals from the strings. For this reason, the buffer amplifier is often powered from relatively high voltage rails (about ±9 V) to avoid distortion due to clipping. Some musicians prefer a preamp that isn’t as linear (like a single-FET amplifier) in which the clipping is softer. Such an amplifier starts to distort sooner, which makes the distortion less “buzzy” and less audible than a more linear, but less forgiving op-amp. However, at least one study indicates that most people can not tell the difference between FET and op-amp circuits in blind listening comparisons of electric instrument preamps, which correlates with results of formal studies of other types of audio devices. Sometimes, piezoelectric pickups are used in conjunction with magnetic types to give a wider range of available sounds.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pickup_(music_technology)#Piezoelectric_pickups

Piezoelectricity explained:

Piezoelectricity /pi?e?zo??il?k’tr?s?ti/ is the electric charge that accumulates in certain solid materials (such as crystals, certain ceramics, and biological matter such as bone, DNA and various proteins) in response to applied mechanical stress. The word piezoelectricity means electricity resulting from pressure. It is derived from the Greek piezo or piezein (p?e), which means to squeeze or press, and electric or electron (e?t?), which stands for amber, an ancient source of electric charge. Piezoelectricity was discovered in 1880 by French physicists Jacques and Pierre Curie.

The piezoelectric effect is understood as the linear electromechanical interaction between the mechanical and the electrical state in crystalline materials with no inversion symmetry. The piezoelectric effect is a reversible process in that materials exhibiting the direct piezoelectric effect (the internal generation of electrical charge resulting from an applied mechanical force) also exhibit the reverse piezoelectric effect (the internal generation of a mechanical strain resulting from an applied electrical field). For example, lead zirconate titanate crystals will generate measurable piezoelectricity when their static structure is deformed by about 0.1% of the original dimension. Conversely, those same crystals will change about 0.1% of their static dimension when an external electric field is applied to the material. The inverse piezoelectric effect is used in production of ultrasonic sound waves.

Piezoelectricity is found in useful applications such as the production and detection of sound, generation of high voltages, electronic frequency generation, microbalances, and ultrafine focusing of optical assemblies. It is also the basis of a number of scientific instrumental techniques with atomic resolution, the scanning probe microscopies such as STM, AFM, MTA, SNOM, etc., and everyday uses such as acting as the ignition source for cigarette lighters and push-start propane barbecues.

More: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piezoelectricity

It was 4× 9v batteries I got for $17 Bubblecar, not 3 as I said previously.

searching YouTube for a few more videos on Piezoelectric

Using the Piezo Pickup Properly

DIY Contact Mic – Collin’s Lab

Well I have learnt things today

They are a wide variety of pickups which with different combinations of other pickups and tricks give a wide variety of sounds

I assumed condenser mic, that the slot in assembly in car’s unit was a fairly standard type.

These mic’s are quite good, have a low-noise built in fet amplifier (tiny thing), frequency response is quite good, plenty gain where you want it.

transition said:

I assumed condenser mic, that the slot in assembly in car’s unit was a fairly standard type.

Nope. From a catalogue:

The Fishman Sonicore under-saddle guitar pickup is made with a unique co-polymer sensing material available exclusively from Fishman. This material provides excellent acoustic guitar reproduction in an economical, easily installed package.

The Sonicore pickup is a continuous length of piezo material embedded in a fullyshielded coaxial cable. The pickup senses the motion of the entire saddle, providing excellent string to string balance. The pickup’s small size and convenient under-the-saddle design helps preserve both the aesthetic and structural integrity of the guitar.

>Nope. From a catalogue:

There you go, this ignorant self has learned something today

Talking of piezo pickups, I’m ordering a couple of these cheapies to try out on the psaltery and lute etc:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Daphon-SY60-Acoustic-Piezo-Pick-up-For-Guitar-Violin-Cello-/300683555032?pt=AU_Instrument_Accessories&hash=item460222f0d8