Date: 23/04/2014 21:28:24
From: The_observer
ID: 521754
Subject: Create a Concept & Reality Leaves The Room

SETI & the Drake equation

1960. Green Bank, West Virginia at the new National Radio Astronomy Observatory, a young astrophysicist named Frank Drake runs a two week project called Ozma, to search for extra-terrestrial signals. A signal is received, to great excitement. It turns out to be false, but the excitement remains. In 1960, Drake organizes the first SETI conference, and came up with the now-famous Drake equation:

N = N* fp ne fl fi fc fL

Where N* is the number of stars in the Milky Way galaxy; fp is the fraction with planets; ne is the number of planets per star capable of supporting life; fl is the fraction of planets where life evolves; fi is the fraction where intelligent life evolves; and fc is the fraction that communicates; and fL is the fraction of the planet’s life during which the communicating civilizations live.

This serious-looking equation gave SETI a serious footing as a legitimate intellectual inquiry. The problem, of course, is that none of the terms can be known, and most cannot even be estimated. The only way to work the equation is to fill in with guesses. And guesses—just so we’re clear—are merely expressions of prejudice. Nor can there be “informed guesses.” If you need to state how many planets with life choose to communicate, there is simply no way to make an informed guess. It’s simply prejudice.

As a result, the Drake equation can have any value from “billions and billions” to zero. An expression that can mean anything means nothing. Speaking precisely, the Drake equation is literally meaningless, and has nothing to do with science. I take the hard view that science involves the creation of testable hypotheses. The Drake equation cannot be tested and therefore SETI is not science. SETI is unquestionably a religion. There is not a single shred of evidence for any other life forms, and in forty years of searching, none has been discovered. There is absolutely no evidentiary reason to maintain this belief.
SETI is a religion.

Back in the sixties, SETI had its critics, although not among astrophysicists and astronomers. The biologists and palaeontologists were harshest.
But scientists in general have been indulgent toward SETI, viewing it either with bemused tolerance, or with indifference.
And of course it is true that untestable theories may have heuristic value. Of course extra-terrestrials are a good way to teach science to kids. But that does not relieve us of the obligation to see the Drake equation clearly for what it is—pure speculation in quasi-scientific trappings.

The fact that the Drake equation was not greeted with screams of outrage—similar to the screams of outrage that greet each Creationist new claim, for example—meant that now there was a crack in the door, a loosening of the definition of what constituted legitimate scientific procedure. And soon enough, pernicious garbage began to squeeze through the cracks.

Now let’s jump ahead a decade to the 1970s, and Nuclear Winter.

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Date: 23/04/2014 21:28:48
From: The_observer
ID: 521755
Subject: re: Create a Concept & Reality Leaves The Room

The Nuclear Winter catastrophe theory

In 1975, the National Academy of Sciences reported on “Long-Term Worldwide Effects of Multiple Nuclear Weapons Detonations” The report estimated the effect of dust from nuclear blasts to be relatively minor.
In 1979, the Office of Technology Assessment issued a report on “The Effects of Nuclear War” and stated that because the scientific processes involved were poorly understood, it was not possible to estimate the probable magnitude of such damage.

In 1983, five scientists including Richard Turco and Carl Sagan published a paper in Science called “Nuclear Winter: Global Consequences of Multiple Nuclear Explosions.” This was the so-called TTAPS report, which attempted to quantify more rigorously the atmospheric effects, with the added credibility to be gained from an actual computer model of climate.
At the heart of the TTAPS undertaking was another equation, never specifically expressed, but one that could be paraphrased as follows:

Ds = Wn Ws Wh Tf Tb Pt Pr Pe… etc

(The amount of tropospheric dust=# warheads x size warheads x warhead detonation height x flammability of targets x Target burn duration x Particles entering the Troposphere x Particle reflectivity x Particle endurance … and so on.)

The similarity to the Drake equation is striking. None of the variables can be determined. None at all.
This was only four years after the OTA study concluded that the underlying scientific processes were so poorly known that no estimates could be reliably made. Nevertheless, the TTAPS study not only made those estimates, but concluded they were catastrophic.

According to Sagan and his co-workers, even a limited 5,000 megaton nuclear exchange would cause a global temperature drop of more than 35 degrees Centigrade, and this change would last for three months. The greatest volcanic eruptions that we know of changed world temperatures somewhere between .5 and 2 degrees Centigrade. Ice ages changed global temperatures by 10 degrees. Here we have an estimated change three times greater than any ice age. One might expect it to be the subject of some dispute.

But Sagan and his co-workers were prepared, for nuclear winter was from the outset the subject of a well-orchestrated media campaign. The first announcement of nuclear winter appeared in an article by Sagan in the Sunday supplement, Parade. The very next day, a highly-publicized, high-profile conference on the long-term consequences of nuclear war was held in Washington, chaired by Carl Sagan and Paul Ehrlich, the most famous and media-savvy scientists of their generation. Sagan appeared on the Johnny Carson show 40 times. Ehrlich was on 25 times. Following the conference, there were press conferences, meetings with congressmen, and so on. The formal papers in Science came months later.

This is not the way science is done, it is the way products are sold.

At the conference during the question period, Ehrlich, reminded that after Hiroshima and Nagasaki, scientists were quoted as saying nothing would grow there for 75 years, but in fact melons were growing the next year, was asked how accurate were these findings now?

Ehrlich answered by saying “I think they are extremely robust. What we are doing here, however, is presenting a consensus of a very large group of scientists…”

Consensus is invoked only in situations where the science is not solid enough. Nobody says the consensus of scientists agrees that E=mc2. Nobody says the consensus is that the sun is 93 million miles away. It would never occur to anyone to speak that way.

What I have been suggesting to you is that nuclear winter was a meaningless formula, tricked out with bad science, for policy ends. It was political from the beginning, promoted in a well-orchestrated media campaign that had to be planned weeks or months in advance.

Richard Feynman – “I really don’t think these guys know what they’re talking about,”
Freeman Dyson – “It’s an absolutely atrocious piece of science, but who wants to be accused of being in favour of nuclear war?”
Victor Weisskopf – “The science is terrible but—perhaps the psychology is good.”
Edward Teller, the father of the H bomb. “While it is generally recognized that details are still uncertain and deserve much more study, Dr. Sagan nevertheless has taken the position that the whole scenario is so robust that there can be little doubt about its main conclusions.”

At the time, there was a concerted desire on the part of lots of people to avoid nuclear war. If nuclear winter looked awful, why investigate too closely? Who wanted to disagree?

Once you abandon strict adherence to what science tells us, once you start arranging the truth in a press conference, then anything is possible. (create a concept & reality leaves the room)

That is why it is so important for the future of science that the line between what science can say with certainty, and what it cannot, be drawn clearly—and defended.

What happened to Nuclear Winter? As the media glare faded, its robust scenario appeared less persuasive; John Maddox, editor of Nature, repeatedly criticized its claims;
A final media embarrassment came in 1991, when Carl Sagan predicted on Nightline that Kuwaiti oil fires would produce a nuclear winter effect, causing a “year without a summer,” and endangering crops around the world. Sagan stressed this outcome was so likely that “it should affect the war plans.”
None of it happened.

What, then, can we say were the lessons of Nuclear Winter? I believe the lesson was that with a catchy name, a strong policy position and an aggressive media campaign, nobody will dare to criticize the science, and in short order, a terminally weak thesis will be established as fact. After that, any criticism becomes beside the point. The war is already over without a shot being fired.

That was the lesson, and we had a textbook application soon afterward, with second-hand smoke.

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Date: 23/04/2014 21:29:14
From: The_observer
ID: 521757
Subject: re: Create a Concept & Reality Leaves The Room

Second Hand Smoke

In 1993, the EPA announced that second-hand smoke was “responsible for approximately 3,000 lung cancer deaths each year in non-smoking adults,” and that it “impairs the respiratory health of hundreds of thousands of people.”
In a 1994 pamphlet the EPA said that the eleven studies it based its decision on were not by themselves conclusive, and that they collectively assigned second-hand smoke a risk factor of 1.19. (For reference, a risk factor below 3.0 is too small for action by the EPA, or for publication in the New England Journal of Medicine, for example.) Furthermore, since there was no statistical association at the 95% confidence limits, the EPA lowered the limit to 90%. They then classified second-hand smoke as a Group A Carcinogen.

This was openly fraudulent science, but it formed the basis for bans on smoking in restaurants, offices, and airports. California banned public smoking in 1995. Soon, no claim was too extreme.
By 1998, the Christian Science Monitor was saying that “Second-hand smoke is the nation’s third-leading preventable cause of death.”
The American Cancer Society announced that 53,000 people died each year of second-hand smoke. The evidence for this claim is non-existent.

In 1998, a Federal judge held that the EPA had acted improperly,
“Committed to a conclusion before research had begun”,
“Disregarded information and made findings on selective information.”

The reaction of Carol Browner, head of the EPA was: “We stand by our science … there’s wide agreement. The American people certainly recognize that exposure to second-hand smoke brings … a whole host of health problems.”
Again, note how the claim of consensus trumps science. In this case, it isn’t even a consensus of scientists that Browner evokes! It’s the consensus of the American people.

Meanwhile, ever-larger studies failed to confirm any association. A large, seven-country World Health Organisation study in 1998 found no association. Nor have well-controlled subsequent studies, to my knowledge. Yet we now read, for example, that second-hand smoke is a cause of breast cancer. At this point you can say pretty much anything you want about second-hand smoke. (create a concept & reality leaves the room)

http://jnci.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2013/12/05/jnci.djt365.extract
No Clear Link Between Passive Smoking and Lung Cancer
Posted on December 16, 2013 by wpress2013
Courtesy of the Journal of the National Cancer Institute:

As with nuclear winter, bad science is used to promote what most people would consider good policy. I certainly think it is. I don’t want people smoking around me. So who will speak out against banning second-hand smoke? Nobody, and if you do, you’ll be branded a shill of RJ Reynolds. A big tobacco flunky. But the truth is that we now have a social policy supported by the grossest of superstitions. And we’ve given the EPA a bad lesson in how to behave in the future. We’ve told them that cheating is the way to succeed.

As the twentieth century drew to a close, the connection between hard scientific fact and public policy became increasingly elastic. In part this was possible because of the complacency of the scientific profession; in part because of the lack of good science education among the public; in part, because of the rise of specialized advocacy groups which have been enormously effective in getting publicity and shaping policy; and in great part because of the decline of the media as an independent assessor of fact. The deterioration of the American media is dire loss for our country. When distinguished institutions like the New York Times can no longer differentiate between factual content and editorial opinion, but rather mix both freely on their front page, then who will hold anyone to a higher standard?

And so, in this elastic anything-goes world where science—or non-science—is the handmaiden of questionable public policy, we arrive at last at global warming.

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Date: 23/04/2014 21:29:34
From: The_observer
ID: 521758
Subject: re: Create a Concept & Reality Leaves The Room

Evidentiary uncertainties are glossed over in the unseemly rush for an overarching policy, and for grants to support the policy by delivering findings that are desired by the patron. Next, the isolation of those scientists who won’t get with the program, and the characterization of those scientists as outsiders and “skeptics” in quotation marks—suspect individuals with suspect motives, industry flunkies, reactionaries, or simply anti-environmental nutcases. In short order, debate ends, even though prominent scientists are uncomfortable about how things are being done.

When did “skeptic” become a dirty word in science? When did a skeptic require quotation marks around it?

To an outsider, the most significant innovation in the global warming controversy is the overt reliance that is being placed on models. Back in the days of nuclear winter, computer models were invoked to add weight to a conclusion: “These results are derived with the help of a computer model.” But now large-scale computer models are seen as generating data in themselves. No longer are models judged by how well they reproduce data from the real world—increasingly, models provide the data. As if they were themselves a reality. And indeed they are, when we are projecting forward. There can be no observational data about the year 2100. There are only model runs.

I remind you that in the lifetime of most scientists now living, we have already had an example of dire predictions set aside by new technology. I refer to the green revolution. In 1960, Paul Ehrlich said, “The battle to feed humanity is over. In the 1970s the world will undergo famines—hundreds of millions of people are going to starve to death.” Ten years later, he predicted four billion people would die during the 1980s, including 65 million Americans. The mass starvation that was predicted never occurred, and it now seems it isn’t ever going to happen.

It is impossible to ignore how closely the history of global warming fits on the previous template for nuclear winter. Just as the earliest studies of nuclear winter stated that the uncertainties were so great that probabilities could never be known, so, too the first pronouncements on global warming argued strong limits on what could be determined with certainty about climate change. The 1995 IPCC draft report said,
“Any claims of positive detection of significant climate change are likely to remain controversial until uncertainties in the total natural variability of the climate system are reduced.” It also said,
“No study to date has positively attributed all or part of observed climate changes to anthropogenic causes.”

Those statements were removed, and in their place appeared:
“The balance of evidence suggests a discernable human influence on climate.”

What is clear, however, is that on this issue, science and policy have become inextricably mixed to the point where it will be difficult, if not impossible, to separate them out. It is possible for an outside observer to ask serious questions about the conduct of investigations into global warming, such as whether we are taking appropriate steps to improve the quality of our observational data records, whether we are systematically obtaining the information that will clarify existing uncertainties, whether we have any organized disinterested mechanism to direct research in this contentious area.

The answer to all these questions is no. We don’t.

In trying to think about how these questions can be resolved, it occurs to me that in the progression from SETI to nuclear winter to second-hand smoke to global warming, we have one clear message, and that is that we can expect more and more problems of public policy dealing with technical issues in the future—problems of ever greater seriousness, where people care passionately on all sides.

And at the moment we have no mechanism to get good answers.

In recent years, much has been said about the post-modernist claims about science to the effect that science is just another form of raw power, tricked out in special claims for truth-seeking and objectivity that really have no basis in fact. Science, we are told, is no better than any other undertaking. These ideas anger many scientists, and they anger me. But recent events have made me wonder if they are correct. We can take as an example the scientific reception accorded a Danish statistician, Bjorn Lomborg, who wrote a book called The Skeptical Environmentalist.

The scientific community responded in a way that can only be described as disgraceful. In professional literature, it was complained he had no standing because he was not an earth scientist. His publisher, Cambridge University Press, was attacked with cries that the editor should be fired, and that all right-thinking scientists should shun the press. The past president of the AAAS wondered aloud how Cambridge could have ever “published a book that so clearly could never have passed peer review.” (But of course the manuscript did pass peer review by three earth scientists on both sides of the Atlantic, and all recommended publication.) But what are scientists doing attacking a press? Is this the new McCarthyism—coming from scientists?

Worst of all was the behaviour of the Scientific American, which seemed intent on proving the post-modernist point that it was all about power, not facts. The Scientific American attacked Lomborg for eleven pages, yet only came up with nine factual errors despite their assertion that the book was “rife with careless mistakes.” It was a poor display featuring vicious ad hominem attacks, including comparing him to a Holocaust denier. The issue was captioned: “Science defends itself against the Skeptical Environmentalist.” Really. Science has to defend itself? Is this what we have come to?

When Lomborg asked for space to rebut his critics, he was given only a page and a half. When he said it wasn’t enough, he put the critics’ essays on his web page and answered them in detail. Scientific American threatened copyright infringement and made him take the pages down.

Further attacks since have made it clear what is going on. Lomborg is charged with heresy. That’s why none of his critics needs to substantiate their attacks in any detail. That’s why the facts don’t matter. That’s why they can attack him in the most vicious personal terms. He’s a heretic.

Of course, any scientist can be charged as Galileo was charged. I just never thought I’d see the Scientific American in the role of mother church.

Is this what science has become? I hope not. But it is what it will become, unless there is a concerted effort by leading scientists to aggressively separate science from policy. The late Philip Handler, former president of the National Academy of Sciences, said that “Scientists best serve public policy by living within the ethics of science, not those of politics. If the scientific community will not unfrock the charlatans, the public will not discern the difference—science and the nation will suffer.” Personally, I don’t worry about the nation. But I do worry about science.

Reply Quote

Date: 23/04/2014 21:30:46
From: The_observer
ID: 521759
Subject: re: Create a Concept & Reality Leaves The Room

https://www.cfa.harvard.edu/~scranmer/SPD/crichton.html

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Date: 23/04/2014 21:33:45
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 521762
Subject: re: Create a Concept & Reality Leaves The Room

http://www.seti.org/drakeequation

Besides illuminating the factors involved in such a search, the Drake Equation is a simple, effective tool for stimulating intellectual curiosity about the universe around us, for helping us to understand that life as we know it is the end product of a natural, cosmic evolution, and for making us realize how much we are a part of that universe. A key goal of the SETI Institute is to further high quality research that will yield additional information related to any of the factors of this fascinating equation.

———

the equation was never put up to have actual numbers entered.

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Date: 23/04/2014 21:36:03
From: PermeateFree
ID: 521765
Subject: re: Create a Concept & Reality Leaves The Room

The_observer said:

https://www.cfa.harvard.edu/~scranmer/SPD/crichton.html

You are an obsessed man Observer. I hope they paid you well, alternatively you must be a very unhappy individual. Very sad.

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Date: 23/04/2014 21:36:47
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 521766
Subject: re: Create a Concept & Reality Leaves The Room

crichton doen’t seem to know what he is talking about. maybe he should stick to novels….oh hang on.

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Date: 23/04/2014 21:37:01
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 521767
Subject: re: Create a Concept & Reality Leaves The Room

+s

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Date: 23/04/2014 21:38:33
From: Skunkworks
ID: 521770
Subject: re: Create a Concept & Reality Leaves The Room

PermeateFree said:


The_observer said:

https://www.cfa.harvard.edu/~scranmer/SPD/crichton.html

You are an obsessed man Observer. I hope they paid you well, alternatively you must be a very unhappy individual. Very sad.

A clash of superheroes.

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Date: 23/04/2014 21:43:07
From: The_observer
ID: 521773
Subject: re: Create a Concept & Reality Leaves The Room

>>>crichton doen’t seem to know what he is talking about. maybe he should stick to novels….oh hang on.<<

ignoramus

His issues with the English department led Crichton to switch his concentration to biological anthropology as an undergraduate, obtaining his bachelor’s degree summa cum laude in 1964. He was also initiated into the Phi Beta Kappa Society.

He received a Henry Russell Shaw Traveling Fellowship from 1964 to 1965 and was a Visiting Lecturer in Anthropology at the University of Cambridge in the United Kingdom in 1965.

Crichton later enrolled at Harvard Medical School, when he began publishing work.

During his clinical rotations at the Boston City Hospital, Crichton grew disenchanted with the culture there, which appeared to emphasize the interests and reputations of doctors over the interests of patients. Crichton graduated from Harvard, obtaining an M.D. in 1969, and undertook a post-doctoral fellowship study at the Salk Institute for Biological Studies in La Jolla, California, from 1969 to 1970. He never obtained a license to practice medicine, devoting himself to his writing career instead.

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Date: 23/04/2014 21:44:20
From: PermeateFree
ID: 521774
Subject: re: Create a Concept & Reality Leaves The Room

Skunkworks said:


PermeateFree said:

The_observer said:

https://www.cfa.harvard.edu/~scranmer/SPD/crichton.html

You are an obsessed man Observer. I hope they paid you well, alternatively you must be a very unhappy individual. Very sad.

A clash of superheroes.

No a clash of reality and fantasy.

Reply Quote

Date: 23/04/2014 21:44:38
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 521775
Subject: re: Create a Concept & Reality Leaves The Room

yeah, i read his wiki entry. so what? still talking crap in the quotes you posted.

Reply Quote

Date: 23/04/2014 21:46:28
From: The_observer
ID: 521780
Subject: re: Create a Concept & Reality Leaves The Room

>>>yeah, i read his wiki entry. so what? still talking crap in the quotes you posted.<<

do you ever write anything here that isn’t crap.

I don’t believe so!

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Date: 23/04/2014 21:48:16
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 521783
Subject: re: Create a Concept & Reality Leaves The Room

you lose.

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Date: 23/04/2014 21:49:42
From: CrazyNeutrino
ID: 521786
Subject: re: Create a Concept & Reality Leaves The Room

Can you see through all that smoke Observer?

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Date: 23/04/2014 21:50:20
From: The_observer
ID: 521788
Subject: re: Create a Concept & Reality Leaves The Room

>>>you lose<<<

Oh, how can I argue with that

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Date: 23/04/2014 21:51:59
From: The_observer
ID: 521790
Subject: re: Create a Concept & Reality Leaves The Room

>>>Can you see through all that smoke Observer?<<

you’d know more about smoke than I do Crazy.

Do you use tabacci to mull up, drugo

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Date: 23/04/2014 21:55:38
From: CrazyNeutrino
ID: 521793
Subject: re: Create a Concept & Reality Leaves The Room

The_observer said:

>>>Can you see through all that smoke Observer?<<

you’d know more about smoke than I do Crazy.

Do you use tabacci to mull up, drugo

Are you really sure you can see through all that smoke Observer?

Reply Quote

Date: 23/04/2014 21:59:00
From: The_observer
ID: 521795
Subject: re: Create a Concept & Reality Leaves The Room

>>>Are you really sure you can see through all that smoke Observer?<<

you know crazy, I’m always a bit confused about your remarks here.

I’m never sure if your drunk, or bent,

or both

Reply Quote

Date: 23/04/2014 22:05:06
From: CrazyNeutrino
ID: 521805
Subject: re: Create a Concept & Reality Leaves The Room

The_observer said:

>>>Are you really sure you can see through all that smoke Observer?<<

you know crazy, I’m always a bit confused about your remarks here.

I’m never sure if your drunk, or bent,

or both

Is the smoke bad over your way?
Is it getting worse you think?
Do you need a mask?

Reply Quote

Date: 23/04/2014 22:13:50
From: The_observer
ID: 521813
Subject: re: Create a Concept & Reality Leaves The Room

>>>Is the smoke bad over your way?
Is it getting worse you think?
Do you need a mask?
<<<

Oh, I see. Your attempting to argue that bush fires are caused by co2 increases.

In that case the following proves the globe is now moving towards an ice age


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