from wiki

Although the direction of its spin can be changed, an elementary particle cannot be made to spin faster or slower.

Does spin speed differ between a low and high mass environment(in line with time dilation)?

“ Pageing Zarkov, urgent need of info on “Spin Gravity”

bob(from black rock) said:

“ Pageing Zarkov, urgent need of info on “Spin Gravity”

where would that get us? Zarkov claiming to have the answers under his desk but not providing any substance?? I WANT ANSWERS!!! quickly would be nice………..

:P

Postpocelipse said:

bob(from black rock) said:

“ Pageing Zarkov, urgent need of info on “Spin Gravity”

where would that get us? Zarkov claiming to have the answers under his desk but not providing any substance?? I WANT ANSWERS!!! quickly would be nice………..

:P

OK then, I’ll distract him while you look under his desk.

bob(from black rock) said:

Postpocelipse said:

bob(from black rock) said:

“ Pageing Zarkov, urgent need of info on “Spin Gravity”

where would that get us? Zarkov claiming to have the answers under his desk but not providing any substance?? I WANT ANSWERS!!! quickly would be nice………..

:P

OK then, I’ll distract him while you look under his desk.

Not sure I want to look under his desk. Has he got a cute sister???

Postpocelipse said:

from wiki

Although the direction of its spin can be changed, an elementary particle cannot be made to spin faster or slower.

Does spin speed differ between a low and high mass environment(in line with time dilation)?

No. As wiki says, the magnitude of the intrinsic spin of an elementary particle is constant.

Intrinsic spin is a form of angular momentum, but it can be very misleading to apply your macroscopic intuitions about angular momentum to this quantum phenomenon.

When a macroscopic object spins about its axis, all the particles comprising the object travel in circular paths around the axis. However, a fundamental particle (eg an electron) doesn’t have component parts so the analogy breaks down. But it still has angular momentum and an axis associated with that. The direction that the axis is pointing can be easily changed, but the magnitude of the angular momentum never varies.

And even the spin axis is weird. When you want to measure the orientation of the spin axis of a fundamental particle you can’t detect it directly. You have to pick a direction and arrange your experiment to ask the particle “Is your spin axis pointing in this direction”. And the particle will either answer, “Yes, it is” or “No, it’s pointing in the opposite direction”. Clearly, macroscopic spin doesn’t do that.

Postpocelipse said:

bob(from black rock) said:

Postpocelipse said:

where would that get us? Zarkov claiming to have the answers under his desk but not providing any substance?? I WANT ANSWERS!!! quickly would be nice………..

:P

OK then, I’ll distract him while you look under his desk.

Not sure I want to look under his desk. Has he got a cute sister???

What? do you think she is giving him a blow job?

PM 2Ring said:

Postpocelipse said:

from wiki

Although the direction of its spin can be changed, an elementary particle cannot be made to spin faster or slower.

Does spin speed differ between a low and high mass environment(in line with time dilation)?

No. As wiki says, the magnitude of the intrinsic spin of an elementary particle is constant.

Intrinsic spin is a form of angular momentum, but it can be very misleading to apply your macroscopic intuitions about angular momentum to this quantum phenomenon.

When a macroscopic object spins about its axis, all the particles comprising the object travel in circular paths around the axis. However, a fundamental particle (eg an electron) doesn’t have component parts so the analogy breaks down. But it still has angular momentum and an axis associated with that. The direction that the axis is pointing can be easily changed, but the magnitude of the angular momentum never varies.

And even the spin axis is weird. When you want to measure the orientation of the spin axis of a fundamental particle you can’t detect it directly. You have to pick a direction and arrange your experiment to ask the particle “Is your spin axis pointing in this direction”. And the particle will either answer, “Yes, it is” or “No, it’s pointing in the opposite direction”. Clearly, macroscopic spin doesn’t do that.

I am aware that spin isn’t immediately comparable to an object that is spinning. I am not aware of spin tests being done at altitude. Was this a part of confirming time dilation in a gravity well?

bob(from black rock) said:

Postpocelipse said:

bob(from black rock) said:

OK then, I’ll distract him while you look under his desk.

Not sure I want to look under his desk. Has he got a cute sister???

What? do you think she is giving him a blow job?

No. I thought looking under her desk might be more entertaining…….

On the topic of spin up & spin down.

If you have a particle that’s currently in a spin up state (and you know that because you just measured it) and you don’t do anything to perturb its spin, it will stay in that spin state. So if you ask it again “Are you spin up” it’ll always say “yes”, and if you ask it “Are you spin down”, it’ll always say “no, I’m spin up”. But if you ask it “Is your spin axis pointing to the right” then 50% of the time it’ll answer “Yes” & 50% of the time it’ll answer “No, my spin axis is pointing left”.

That’s weird from a macroscopic perspective, but it’s perfectly sensible from a quantum POV. And if you know the current spin orientation of a particle, there’s a simple equation that will tell you the probabilities pertaining to spin measurements in any other direction; the equation uses the cosine of the angle between the current axis orientation and the other direction.

PM 2Ring said:

On the topic of spin up & spin down.

If you have a particle that’s currently in a spin up state (and you know that because you just measured it) and you don’t do anything to perturb its spin, it will stay in that spin state. So if you ask it again “Are you spin up” it’ll always say “yes”, and if you ask it “Are you spin down”, it’ll always say “no, I’m spin up”. But if you ask it “Is your spin axis pointing to the right” then 50% of the time it’ll answer “Yes” & 50% of the time it’ll answer “No, my spin axis is pointing left”.

That’s weird from a macroscopic perspective, but it’s perfectly sensible from a quantum POV. And if you know the current spin orientation of a particle, there’s a simple equation that will tell you the probabilities pertaining to spin measurements in any other direction; the equation uses the cosine of the angle between the current axis orientation and the other direction.

what perturbs spin?

Postpocelipse said:

I am aware that spin isn’t immediately comparable to an object that is spinning. I am not aware of spin tests being done at altitude. Was this a part of confirming time dilation in a gravity well?

Honestly, I don’t know if anyone’s bothered to do that. As I tried to intimate in my previous post, it’s not helpful to think of intrinsic angular momentum in terms of movement or speed.

Quantum spin is a very fundamental part of the Standard Model of particle physics, and spin magnitude is invariant in all tests that have been performed. And that includes the billions of collisions that have been performed in particle colliders. The relativistic effects in such colliders are far greater than the tiny relativistic effects generated by Earth’s gravitational field, so if relativity did weird things to spin it would’ve been noticed long ago.

And it’s not just big particle colliders – it’s rather common for the alpha & beta particles emitted in natural radioactive decay events to travel at relativistic speeds, and quantum spin behaves according to the book in such events.

PM 2Ring said:

Postpocelipse said:

I am aware that spin isn’t immediately comparable to an object that is spinning. I am not aware of spin tests being done at altitude. Was this a part of confirming time dilation in a gravity well?

Honestly, I don’t know if anyone’s bothered to do that. As I tried to intimate in my previous post, it’s not helpful to think of intrinsic angular momentum in terms of movement or speed.

Quantum spin is a very fundamental part of the Standard Model of particle physics, and spin magnitude is invariant in all tests that have been performed. And that includes the billions of collisions that have been performed in particle colliders. The relativistic effects in such colliders are far greater than the tiny relativistic effects generated by Earth’s gravitational field, so if relativity did weird things to spin it would’ve been noticed long ago.

And it’s not just big particle colliders – it’s rather common for the alpha & beta particles emitted in natural radioactive decay events to travel at relativistic speeds, and quantum spin behaves according to the book in such events.

So spin wouldn’t be sensitive to mass proximity and not to speed relativity?

Postpocelipse said:

what perturbs spin?

Spin doctors. :)

Seriously, though, it depends on the particle. If the particle feels the electromagnetic force, then magnet fields can be used to perturb its spin.

Generally, any time you measure the spin axis direction of a particle you perturb its spin unless the direction you’re measuring in happens to be parallel (or anti-parallel) to the particle’s current orientation. So if it’s currently spin up, you can test if it’s spin up or spin down without perturbing it, but if you attempt to measure it in any other direction it will line up to be either parallel or antiparallel to that direction, with probability given by the equation I mentioned earlier.

Postpocelipse said:

So spin wouldn’t be sensitive to mass proximity and not to speed relativity?

No.

I’ll absorb that and maybe have another question or two tomorrow. cheers

No worries.

It’s probably easier to think about quantum spin as a fundamental property, rather than a physical attribute.

Postpocelipse said:

PM 2Ring said:

Postpocelipse said:

from wiki

Although the direction of its spin can be changed, an elementary particle cannot be made to spin faster or slower.

Does spin speed differ between a low and high mass environment(in line with time dilation)?

No. As wiki says, the magnitude of the intrinsic spin of an elementary particle is constant.

Intrinsic spin is a form of angular momentum, but it can be very misleading to apply your macroscopic intuitions about angular momentum to this quantum phenomenon.

When a macroscopic object spins about its axis, all the particles comprising the object travel in circular paths around the axis. However, a fundamental particle (eg an electron) doesn’t have component parts so the analogy breaks down. But it still has angular momentum and an axis associated with that. The direction that the axis is pointing can be easily changed, but the magnitude of the angular momentum never varies.

And even the spin axis is weird. When you want to measure the orientation of the spin axis of a fundamental particle you can’t detect it directly. You have to pick a direction and arrange your experiment to ask the particle “Is your spin axis pointing in this direction”. And the particle will either answer, “Yes, it is” or “No, it’s pointing in the opposite direction”. Clearly, macroscopic spin doesn’t do that.

I am aware that spin isn’t immediately comparable to an object that is spinning. I am not aware of spin tests being done at altitude. Was this a part of confirming time dilation in a gravity well?

I couldn’t have put it better than PM 2Ring. Yes, a particle’s spin is used as a measure of its angular momentum. So far as I know, time dilation doesn’t affect it.

Spin played no part in confirming time dilation in a gravity well.

mollwollfumble said:

Postpocelipse said:

PM 2Ring said:

Spin played no part in confirming time dilation in a gravity well.

It would be good to know whether spin was the same in a free-fall without substantial EM as it is under testing conditions……..