New Supernova Pops in Bright Galaxy M106 in the ‘Hunting Dogs’

A supergiant star exploded 23.5 million years ago in one of the largest and brightest nearby galaxies. This spring we finally got the news. In April, the Katzman Automatic Imaging Telescope (KAIT) as part of the Lick Observatory Supernova Search, photographed a faint “new star” very close to the bright core of M106, a 9th magnitude galaxy in Canes Venatici the Hunting Dogs.

BANG!

more…

Young DA was asking the other day how long it would take to detect an SN.

They apparently picked this one up within hours.

dv said:

Young DA was asking the other day how long it would take to detect an SN.

They apparently picked this one up within hours.

We need telescopes that can detect in seconds

http://www.sci-news.com/astronomy/science-wolf-rayet-star-sn2013cu-supernova-01937.html

a wolf rayert supernova.

CrazyNeutrino said:

dv said:

Young DA was asking the other day how long it would take to detect an SN.

They apparently picked this one up within hours.

We need telescopes that can detect in seconds

I suppose it’d be nice, since a bunch of interesting stuff happens at the start of a supernova explosion, so the earlier you spot them the more you can potentially learn. Ideally, you want to look at it in a wide range of EM wavelengths (radio, microwave, visible, UV, x-ray, and gamma) and also alert the neutrino detector people to see what they can catch.

As well as getting more info about early SN mechanics, by comparing light arrival time with neutrino arrival we could improve our measurement of neutrino speed.

But the sky’s pretty big when you’re looking at it with sufficient magnification to spot extragalactic supernovae and it’d take a lot of telescope power to do that. And of course you’re not going to get visible light from extragalactic supernovae that decide to go off on the day side of the Earth, unless you have a bunch of space telescopes to handle that half of the observations. (A relatively nearby SN in the Milky Way could be seen during the day, even with the naked eye, but we haven’t had one of them since Tycho’s time).

Supernovae are pretty interesting, but they don’t happen every day. And astronomers do like to look at other stuff with their telescopes, so they wouldn’t be very happy with most of the planet’s ‘scopes tied up in supernova watching.

PM 2Ring said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

dv said:

Young DA was asking the other day how long it would take to detect an SN.

They apparently picked this one up within hours.

We need telescopes that can detect in seconds

I suppose it’d be nice, since a bunch of interesting stuff happens at the start of a supernova explosion, so the earlier you spot them the more you can potentially learn. Ideally, you want to look at it in a wide range of EM wavelengths (radio, microwave, visible, UV, x-ray, and gamma) and also alert the neutrino detector people to see what they can catch.

As well as getting more info about early SN mechanics, by comparing light arrival time with neutrino arrival we could improve our measurement of neutrino speed.

But the sky’s pretty big when you’re looking at it with sufficient magnification to spot extragalactic supernovae and it’d take a lot of telescope power to do that. And of course you’re not going to get visible light from extragalactic supernovae that decide to go off on the day side of the Earth, unless you have a bunch of space telescopes to handle that half of the observations. (A relatively nearby SN in the Milky Way could be seen during the day, even with the naked eye, but we haven’t had one of them since Tycho’s time).

Supernovae are pretty interesting, but they don’t happen every day. And astronomers do like to look at other stuff with their telescopes, so they wouldn’t be very happy with most of the planet’s ‘scopes tied up in supernova watching.

We need more telescopes

dv said:

Young DA was asking the other day how long it would take to detect an SN.

They apparently picked this one up within hours.

I really should have thought about that question before asking. I didn’t think baby brain was supposed to start this early!

Divine Angel said:

dv said:

Young DA was asking the other day how long it would take to detect an SN.

They apparently picked this one up within hours.

I really should have thought about that question before asking. I didn’t think baby brain was supposed to start this early!

It’s a fair question. In the early part of the 20th century, before computer-based image analysis, most supernovae were spotted well after they happened by comparing photographic evidence. All of those supernovae were extragalactic – we haven’t seen one going off in the Milky Way for centuries – SN 1604 , which was studied by Johannes Kepler .

From History of supernova observation

Although supernovae are relatively rare events, occurring on average about once every 50 years in the Milky Way, observations of distant galaxies allowed supernovae to be discovered and examined more frequently. The first supernova detection patrol was begun by Zwicky in 1933. He was joined by Josef J. Johnson from Caltech in 1936. Using a 45-cm Schmidt telescope at Palomar observatory, they discovered twelve new supernovae within three years by comparing new photographic plates to reference images of extragalactic regions.

My early comment about supernovae & neutrinos wasn’t quite correct. :blush: According to the current theory, most of the neutrinos are released a little while before the visible explosion, so neutrino observatories can alert the other astronomers that a supernova’s about to become visible. So a Supernova Early Warning System has been set up, but it’s yet to detect any supernovae.

[I knew that stuff about the neutrino release, so I really should’ve got that right. Oh well…]

Supernova Early Warning System

The SuperNova Early Warning System (SNEWS) is a network of neutrino detectors designed to give early warning to astronomers in the event of a supernova in our home galaxy or a nearby galaxy such as the Large Magellanic Cloud or the Canis Major Dwarf Galaxy. Enormous numbers of neutrinos are produced in the core of a red giant star as it collapses on itself. In the current model the neutrinos are emitted well before the light from the supernova peaks, so in principle neutrino detectors could give advance warning to astronomers that a supernova has occurred and may soon be visible. The neutrino pulse from supernova 1987A was detected 3 hours before the associated photons (although SNEWS was not yet active).

The current members of SNEWS are Borexino, Super-Kamiokande, LVD, SNO and IceCube. SNO is not currently active as it is being upgraded to its successor program SNO+.

As of June 2013, SNEWS has not issued any SN alerts.

Well, not exactly. I was asking if Betelgeuse went SN and the remnants reached us in our June, when would we notice it? It didn’t occur to me that it’s below the horizon so we’d still notice instead of having to wait to see it in December. And if I had’ve thought even more about it, I would have also realised it would probably be visible in daylight anyway.

Although supernovae are relatively rare events, occurring on average about once every 50 years in the Milky Way,

50 years? It seems to be a nit less than that.

sibeen said:

Although supernovae are relatively rare events, occurring on average about once every 50 years in the Milky Way,

50 years? It seems to be a nit less than that.

All of the recent ones have been in other galaxies

sibeen said:

Although supernovae are relatively rare events, occurring on average about once every 50 years in the Milky Way,

50 years? It seems to be a nit less than that.

they have been obscured according to the ref.

I’m not reading no stupid reference!

Divine Angel said:

Well, not exactly. I was asking if Betelgeuse went SN and the remnants reached us in our June, when would we notice it? It didn’t occur to me that it’s below the horizon so we’d still notice instead of having to wait to see it in December. And if I had’ve thought even more about it, I would have also realised it would probably be visible in daylight anyway.

Ah, rightio.

From Betelgeuse

Professor J. Craig Wheeler of The University of Texas at Austin predicts Betelgeuse’s demise will emit 10⁴⁶ joules of neutrinos, which will pass through the star’s hydrogen envelope in around an hour, then travel at near light speed to reach the Solar System six centuries later—providing the first evidence of the cataclysm.

The supernova could brighten over a two-week period to an apparent magnitude of −12, outshining the Moon in the night sky and becoming easily visible in broad daylight. It would remain at that intensity for two to three months before rapidly dimming.

Since its rotational axis is not pointed toward the Earth, Betelgeuse’s supernova is unlikely to send a gamma ray burst in the direction of Earth large enough to damage ecosystems. The flash of ultraviolet radiation from the explosion will likely be weaker than the ultraviolet output of the Sun.

sibeen said:

Although supernovae are relatively rare events, occurring on average about once every 50 years in the Milky Way,

50 years? It seems to be a nit less than that.

I would have said 500 years.

You would be wrong.

He doesn’t read references. It’s one of his major faults.

dv said:

sibeen said:

Although supernovae are relatively rare events, occurring on average about once every 50 years in the Milky Way,

50 years? It seems to be a nit less than that.

I would have said 500 years.

That’s the problem with spiral galaxies being relatively thin. If you’re located near the galactic plane, it’s hard to see other stuff in the plane, unless it’s fairly close, due to all the dust.

I find it somewhat fascinating that it took so long for the significance of dust extinction to be realized.

It’s happened before.

So fill me in like a SU550.

CBAT lists four MWG supernovae since 1000 AD.

So maybe 500 is high but still.

Kind of funny that the MWG supernovae dried up when the astronomical telescope was developed.

dv said:

Kind of funny that the MWG supernovae dried up when the astronomical telescope was developed.

They’re shy.

dv said:

It’s happened before.

So fill me in like a SU550.

CBAT lists four MWG supernovae since 1000 AD.

So maybe 500 is high but still.

Well, a pair of them roughly every 500. So we’re overdue for another pair. :)

As the man says, most of the MWG is visually obscured from us, so the number of visually observed SN is not a good estimate of the true rate, which is, indeed, about 50 yr^-1.

dv said:

Kind of funny that the MWG supernovae dried up when the astronomical telescope was developed.

Very suspicious. But I don’t think we’re on a galactic Truman Show…

MartinB said:

As the man says, most of the MWG is visually obscured from us, so the number of visually observed SN is not a good estimate of the true rate, which is, indeed, about 50 yr^-1.

And how exactly do you know he’s a man?

Don’t change the subject.

So perhaps circa 80% of MWGSNs are hidden from us by dust. Whereas we’d probably expect to detect any SN that occurred in the Andromeda galaxy.

We have, as it happens, also been unlucky in the waiting period for visually observable MWG SNs.

MartinB said:

We have, as it happens, also been unlucky in the waiting period for visually observable MWG SNs.

And AG as well, it would appear… None since 1885.

Which again makes me wonder about the 50 year thing.

Ma’fac’, it would appear that 1885A and 1987A are the only detected SNs in the whole Local Group in the last four hundred years. 8-/

1605 Most recent supernova in this galaxy
1608 Telescope invented

lol@us

Heh heh heh.

Wikipedia Supernova

What Is A Supernova?

Most recent SN or most recent + visible?

Divine Angel said:

Most recent SN or most recent + visible?

?

Either we can see them or we cannot

of course there could be SN’s that are on their way

Come on Universe, give us a supernova in the Milky Way, we’re overdue for one.

mollwollfumble said:

Come on Universe, give us a supernova in the Milky Way, we’re overdue for one.

careful what you wish for..

Dropbear said:

mollwollfumble said:

Come on Universe, give us a supernova in the Milky Way, we’re overdue for one.

careful what you wish for..

You’ll have to wait till November I’m afraid

diddly-squat said:

Dropbear said:

mollwollfumble said:

Come on Universe, give us a supernova in the Milky Way, we’re overdue for one.

careful what you wish for..

You’ll have to wait till November I’m afraid

Can’t wait. I had an awesome time last year..

Apparently the nearest supernova candidate is IK Pegasi, about 150 ly away.

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