Date: 3/06/2014 12:59:30
From: Postpocelipse
ID: 541745
Subject: Scientists Have Discovered A Planet They Thought Was Impossible

Based on what we know about how solar systems form, researchers thought that a giant rocky planet could not exist. But they just found one that’s 17 times Earth’s mass. They’re calling it the Mega-Earth.

Scientists say the new planet may have “profound implications for the possibility of life” on extra-solar planets, according to a press release from the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics. They announced the finding in a talk at the American Astronomical Society meeting in Boston.

Researchers have always thought Mega-Earths were impossible since any planets that big would attract hydrogen gas, forming a gas planet like Jupiter.

read more

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Date: 3/06/2014 13:01:52
From: Postpocelipse
ID: 541746
Subject: re: Scientists Have Discovered A Planet They Thought Was Impossible

Not only did they think something that big would be a gas giant, but they didn’t even think the elements that make up a rocky planet existed in our universe when this solar system was born: The early universe had only the lighter elements of hydrogen and helium. Heavier elements were forged from these lighter ones in stars over billions of years.

>interesting…..

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Date: 3/06/2014 15:13:49
From: The_observer
ID: 541761
Subject: re: Scientists Have Discovered A Planet They Thought Was Impossible

>> They’re calling it the Mega-Earth. <<

giggles

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Date: 3/06/2014 15:27:36
From: PermeateFree
ID: 541762
Subject: re: Scientists Have Discovered A Planet They Thought Was Impossible

The_observer said:

>> They’re calling it the Mega-Earth. <<

giggles

Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No it’s a giggling pigeon who thinks he’s just won another game!

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Date: 3/06/2014 15:39:32
From: CrazyNeutrino
ID: 541770
Subject: re: Scientists Have Discovered A Planet They Thought Was Impossible

more on this story here

‘Mega-Earth’ And Doomed Planets Top Today’s Exoplanet Finds

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Date: 3/06/2014 15:54:26
From: The_observer
ID: 541773
Subject: re: Scientists Have Discovered A Planet They Thought Was Impossible

PermeateFree said:


The_observer said:

>> They’re calling it the Mega-Earth. <<

giggles

Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No it’s a giggling pigeon who thinks he’s just won another game!

giggles now at an idiot

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Date: 3/06/2014 15:56:20
From: PermeateFree
ID: 541774
Subject: re: Scientists Have Discovered A Planet They Thought Was Impossible

The_observer said:


PermeateFree said:

The_observer said:

>> They’re calling it the Mega-Earth. <<

giggles

Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No it’s a giggling pigeon who thinks he’s just won another game!

giggles now at an idiot

:))))

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Date: 3/06/2014 15:57:38
From: Postpocelipse
ID: 541775
Subject: re: Scientists Have Discovered A Planet They Thought Was Impossible

The_observer said:


PermeateFree said:

The_observer said:

>> They’re calling it the Mega-Earth. <<

giggles

Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No it’s a giggling pigeon who thinks he’s just won another game!

giggles now at an idiot

small things?

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Date: 3/06/2014 15:59:13
From: The_observer
ID: 541776
Subject: re: Scientists Have Discovered A Planet They Thought Was Impossible

Postpocelipse said:


The_observer said:

PermeateFree said:

Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No it’s a giggling pigeon who thinks he’s just won another game!

giggles now at an idiot

small things?

what like, your cock or your brain

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Date: 3/06/2014 16:20:18
From: Postpocelipse
ID: 541788
Subject: re: Scientists Have Discovered A Planet They Thought Was Impossible

The_observer said:


Postpocelipse said:

The_observer said:

giggles now at an idiot

small things?

what like, your cock or your brain

yup. you got me there. totally. kudos to you…..

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Date: 3/06/2014 16:39:25
From: The_observer
ID: 541803
Subject: re: Scientists Have Discovered A Planet They Thought Was Impossible

WRITTEN TESTIMONY TO THE HOUSE SUBCOMMITTEE ON SCIENCE, SPACE, AND
TECHNOLOGY. MAY 29, 2014
DANIEL B. BOTKIN, Botkin dismantles the IPCC 2014 report

“Daniel B. Botkin, a world-renowned ecologist, is Professor (Emeritus), Department of Ecology, Evolution and Marine Biology, UC Santa
Barbara, and President of The Center for The Study of The Environment, which provides independent, science-based analyses of complex
environmental issues. The New York Times said his book, Discordant Harmonies: A New Ecology for the 21st Century is considered by many
ecologists to be the classic text of the movement.” His Environmental Science, now in its Sixth Edition, was named 2004′s best
textbook by the Textbook and Academic Authors Association.”

Since 1968 I have published research on theoretical global warming, its potential ecological effects,
and the implications for people and biodiversity. I have spent my career trying to help conserve our
environment and its great diversity of species. In doing so I have always attempted to maintain an
objective, intellectually honest, scientific approach in the best tradition of scientific endeavor. I have,
accordingly, been dismayed and disappointed in recent years that this subject has been converted
into a political and ideological debate. I have colleagues on both sides of the debate and believe we
should work together as scientists instead of arguing divisively about preconceived, emotionally based “positions.” I hope my testifying here will
help lead to a calmer, more rational approach to dealing with not only climate change but also other major environmental problems. The IPCC
2014 report does not have this kind of rational discussion we should be having. I would like to tell you why.

The IPCC 2014 report is actually a series of reports, each long, complex in organization, and
extensive in scope. Since it’s not possible to discuss the Summary Reports for Policymakers in detail
today, I will highlight some of my thoughts for you here as they relate to the reports, hoping to bring a saner, more sober approach to this highly
charged issue.

1. I want to state up front that we have been living through a warming trend driven by a variety of influences. However, it is my view that this is
not unusual, and contrary to the characterizations by the IPCC and the National Climate Assessment, these environmental changes are not
apocalyptic nor irreversible.

2. My biggest concern is that both the reports present a number of speculative, and sometimes incomplete, conclusions embedded in
language that gives them more scientific heft than they deserve. The reports are “scientific-sounding” rather than based on clearly settled facts
or admitting their lack. Established facts about the global environment exist less often in science than laymen usually think.

3. HAS IT BEEN WARMING? Yes, we have been living through a warming trend, no doubt about that. The rate of change we are
experiencing is also not unprecedented, and the “mystery” of the warming “plateau” simply indicates the inherent complexity of our global
biosphere. Change is normal, life on Earth is inherently risky; it always has been. The two reports, however, makes it seem that environmental
change is apocalyptic and irreversible. It is not.

4. IS CLIMATE CHANGE VERY UNUSUAL? No, it has always undergone changes.

5. ARE GREENHOUSE GASES INCREASING? Yes, CO2 rapidly.

9. What I sought to learn was the overall take-away that the reports leave with a reader. I regret to say that I was left with the impression that
the reports overestimate the danger from human-induced climate change and do not contribute to our ability to solve major environmental
problems. I am afraid that an “agenda” permeates the reports, an implication that humans and our activity are necessarily bad and ought to be
curtailed.

10. ARE THERE MAJOR PROBLEMS WITH THE REPORTS? Yes, in assumptions, use of data, and conclusions.

11. My biggest concern about the reports is that they present a number of speculative, and sometimes incomplete, conclusions embedded in
language that gives them more scientific heft than they deserve. The reports, in other words, are “scientific- sounding,” rather than clearly
settled and based on indisputable facts. Established facts about the global environment exist less often in science than laymen usually think.

12. The two reports assume and/or argue that the climate warming forecast by the global climate models is happening and will continue to
happen and grow worse. Currently these predictions are way off the reality (Figure 1). Models, like all scientific theory, have to be tested against
real-world observations. Experts in model validation say that the climate models frequently cited in the IPCC report are little if any validated. This
means that as theory they are fundamentally scientifically

15. Some conclusions contradict and are ignorant of the best statistically valid observations.

16. The report for policy makers on Impacts, Adaptation, and Vulnerability repeats the assertion of previous IPCC reports that “large fraction of
species” face “increase extinction risks” (p15). Overwhelming evidence contradicts this assertion. And it has been clearly shown that models
used to make these forecasts, such as climate envelope models and species-area curve models, make incorrect assumptions that lead to
erroneous conclusions, over-estimating extinction risks.

17. THE REPORT GIVES THE IMPRESSION THAT LIVING THINGS ARE FRAGILE AND RIGID, unable to deal with change. The opposite is to
case. Life is persistent, adaptable, adjustable.

18. STEADY-STATE ASSUMPTION: There is an overall assumption in the IPCC 2014 report and the Climate Change Assessment that all
change is negative and undesirable; that it is ecologically and evolutionarily unnatural, bad for populations, species, ecosystems, for all life on
planet Earth, including people. This is the opposite of the reality: The environment has always changed and is always changing, and living things
have had to adapt to these changes. Interestingly, many, if not most, species that I have worked on or otherwise know about require
environmental change.

19. The summary for policy makers on Impacts, Adaptation, and Vulnerability makes repeated use of the term “irreversible” changes. A species
going extinct is irreversible, but little else about the environment is irreversible.

lots more here http://science.house.gov/sites/republicans.science.house.gov/files/documents/HHRG-113-SY-WState-DBotkin-20140529.pdf

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Date: 3/06/2014 17:31:02
From: PermeateFree
ID: 541841
Subject: re: Scientists Have Discovered A Planet They Thought Was Impossible

DANIEL B. BOTKIN has quite a number of critques, below is one of them which raises some interesting points.

DANIEL B. BOTKIN’s Attempts to Delude On Global Warming
The introductory paragraph of Global Warming Delusions launches its premise with the evidence that global warming will have serious effects on life is thin. Most evidence suggests the contrary. And then the author begins to demonstrate the wealth of contrary evidence:

 It is implied that extrapolating the rate of species extinction over the past 2.5 million years is a more trustworthy predictor than “his year’s United Nations report on climate change and other documents say that 20%-30% of plant and animal species will be threatened with extinction in this century due to global warming — a truly terrifying thought. me: Has nothing changed that might change the dynamics from the average of the past?
 Tropical diseases such as malaria will not spread; one researcher says so, the changes to date do not correlate well with the temperature changes. me: But can the correlations improve when the temperature changes become greater? Perhaps not.
 Temperature and rainfall are not the key factors explaining habitat shifts. Proof: mockingbirds are becoming more common in Manhattan because there is a new food source. me: And just what climate change does this demonstrate was not influential? Or does failure to be the only factor imply that something cannot be a factor at all? Why don’t I remember that from school?
End of development of the “most evidence” argument; already.

After a brief summary of his career, to establish his credibility in the field, the author switches to what some people he knows have told him they think makes it morally acceptable to exaggerate. Fine, such discussions are not new, and not likely to ever disappear (at least not before we do). However, it is not at all clear that that in any way demonstrates that the U.N. report exaggerates; to decide that a certain deception would be morally justifiable (in the minds of people who did not publish the report in question) does not prove that such deception has been practiced (nor are all men Socrates). By the way, recent arctic melting suggests that the projections used in the U.N. report are, if anything, overly conservative.

The next “it’s best to presume nothing has changed” argument pretends that computing power, algorithmic efficiency, and model quality have not improved very rapidly over recent years. The implication that the models are not using the available data from the past 2.5 million years for calibration, and to check the models’ predictive power in the past, is astounding:
The climate modelers who developed the computer programs that are being used to forecast climate change used to readily admit that the models were crude and not very realistic, but were the best that could be done with available computers and programming methods. They said our options were to either believe those crude models or believe the opinions of experienced, data-focused scientists. Having done a great deal of computer modeling myself, I appreciated their acknowledgment of the limits of their methods. But I hear no such statements today. Oddly, the forecasts of computer models have become our new reality, while facts such as the few extinctions of the past 2.5 million years are pushed aside, as if they were not our reality.
To his We should approach the problem the way we decide whether to buy insurance and take precautions against other catastrophes — wildfires, hurricanes, earthquakes. I would suggest he read “In Nature’s Casino by Michael Lewis to better appreciate whether we are as good at managing our risk coverage as he seems to assume, naively.

Just before closing (I can’t call it concluding, really), he chooses to mention the orangutans, endangered by deforestation. While I agree that it would be sad if we fail to find funds to purchase those forests before they are destroyed, and thus let this species go extinct, it is not at all clear to me that any such failure is likely to be because in this panic we are going to spend our money unwisely, we will take actions that are counterproductive, and we will fail to do many of those things that will benefit the environment and ourselves. And while we’re at it, maybe we can buy some icebergs and snowbanks to prevent the extinction of polar bears

http://uwwoonp.blogspot.com.au/2007/10/daniel-b-botkin-attempts-to-delude-on.html

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Date: 4/06/2014 07:20:03
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 542160
Subject: re: Scientists Have Discovered A Planet They Thought Was Impossible

“While initially astronomers thought Kepler-10c was a “mini-Neptune”, or a world that is similar to that planet in our solar system, its mass measured by the HARPS-North instrument on the Galileo National Telescope showed it was a rocky world. What’s more, astronomers believe the planet did not “let go” of any atmosphere over time, which implies the planet’s past is similar to what it was today. Here’s the other neat thing: astronomers found that the system was 11 billion years old, at a time when the universe was young (it was formed 13.7 billion years ago) and the elements needed to make rocky planets were scarce. This implies that rocky planets could have formed earlier than previously thought.”

That makes it doubly interesting. There is nothing whatever in planet-formation theories to forbid the formation of large rocky planets. Rocky planets form by accretion of smaller bodies so their final size depends only on how much mass is originally present in those smaller bodies. In addition, all the large planets found by the Kepler spacecraft are in tight orbits (closer than the Earth to the Sun) around sunlike stars and therefore hot enough to all be rocky.

As for the age, I take it that this estimate comes from the low metallicity of the parent star.

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Date: 5/06/2014 00:09:55
From: Soso
ID: 542836
Subject: re: Scientists Have Discovered A Planet They Thought Was Impossible

Postpocelipse said:


Scientists say the new planet may have “profound implications for the possibility of life” on extra-solar planets,

Why can’t anything be left to be interesting just as it is without adding this kind of wishy washy woo?

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Date: 5/06/2014 00:18:48
From: dv
ID: 542839
Subject: re: Scientists Have Discovered A Planet They Thought Was Impossible

Soso said:


Postpocelipse said:

Scientists say the new planet may have “profound implications for the possibility of life” on extra-solar planets,

Why can’t anything be left to be interesting just as it is without adding this kind of wishy washy woo?

this

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Date: 5/06/2014 00:26:41
From: PM 2Ring
ID: 542843
Subject: re: Scientists Have Discovered A Planet They Thought Was Impossible

Soso said:


Postpocelipse said:

Scientists say the new planet may have “profound implications for the possibility of life” on extra-solar planets,

Why can’t anything be left to be interesting just as it is without adding this kind of wishy washy woo?

For pretty much the same reason that they write this sort of stuff:

Date: 1/06/2014 18:41:42
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 540950
Subject: re: 100 Million Planets In The Galaxy

Millions of planets, all these millions of planets, what purpose do they serve?

For many people, stuff is only interesting through its relationship to people.
I blame religion.

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