I am interested in the thoughts of other forummers who might have watched the second episode last night.

http://www.abc.net.au/tv/programs/men-who-made-us-thin/

I was a part of the 1980s gym and aerobics thing the presenter was talking about. But no way was it as he portrayed it. Well, not where I went, anyway. I have no recollection of there being any emphasis at all on getting thin, it was about being fit. I wasn’t really into the gym stuff, I did two aerobics classes twice a week and I jogged most other days. I did have a couple of fitness assessments done during the 10 years or so that I went. I don’t remember being weighed nor measured. Martin did a skinfold test on your back. The rest of the assessment was crunches (I think it was how many you could do in a minute) and pushups (how many you could do in a minute) and flexibility (sit on the floor and reach beyond your toes)

I also thought that Richard Simmons class looked like really good fun. And therefore probably very effective. I had never heard of him. He also found the reporter amusing, I think.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Simmons

I have so far watched half of it.

It appears that whilst being good for almost every other aspect of one’s health, exercise does bugger all to help you lose weight.

>It appears that whilst being good for almost every other aspect of one’s health, exercise does bugger all to help you lose weight.

It does when it eats into your eating time, and if ‘exercise’ still means normal activities like the physical aspects of daily work, you know work that requires bending over your tummy (that sort of thing), then honestly I can’t see how such a person could get overweight or stay terribly overweight. If you work and sweat and use your whole body and do it a lot of the time, then it’s impossible to stack on weight because you burn the energy until you have no more to burn (fatigue generator kicks in hard and sustained, until rest recovery).

Some of the generalizing perceptions regards overweightness must be BS.

At least some of the weight problems out there must be the consequence of ‘desire distortions’ IMO, as likely are some portion of depression. For example, eating in a sense has more legitimacy than does rest recovery(extending to sleep), of daylight hours. There’s plenty of cooking shows and advertising around food, and regards depression, happiness is a bit of a disease of TV, magazines and advertizing, people just aren’t really that happy. There’s social mediation factors also, and we have had best part of a century of at least part denial of even the existence of a human nature, so it’s hardly surprising there’re desire distortions.

Tiredness and fatigue can be seen as a desire for rest, and sleep. Some aspects of science would be happy to see the concept of desire (and even mental states) demolished.

>>people just aren’t really that happy.<<

I’m sorry to see you think that. I think that many people are happy. Quite a lot of the time.

>I’m sorry to see you think that. I think that many people are happy. Quite a lot of the time.

I’ll qualify that for you.

‘Happiness’ is not the same thing for most people (it’s delusional to think it so), and television and media do not represent it as it is in real life.

>>television and media do not represent it as it is in real life.<<

‘cos most TV and media is fiction? Of course it’s not as it is in real life. Part of growing up is working out how to tell what is real and what isn’t. Are you saying many people don’t grow up?

>‘cos most TV and media is fiction? Of course it’s not as it is in real life. Part of growing up is working out how to tell what is real and what isn’t. Are you saying many people don’t grow up?

Are you suggesting ‘happiness’ isn’t exploited by the ideological apparatus, and people are not influenced by and the subjects of ideology?

transition said:

>‘cos most TV and media is fiction? Of course it’s not as it is in real life. Part of growing up is working out how to tell what is real and what isn’t. Are you saying many people don’t grow up?

Are you suggesting ‘happiness’ isn’t exploited by the ideological apparatus, and people are not influenced by and the subjects of ideology?

Sorry, I don’t understand what you are saying. I understand some people do not have the advantages of education that most of us have access to in this country, but what I am saying is that happiness may in fact be synonymous with acceptance and contentment. And being able to separate fact from fiction.

>It appears that whilst being good for almost every other aspect of one’s health, exercise does bugger all to help you lose weight.

I agree with transition that regular exercise does indeed help you lose weight, by helping to return the body to a beneficial energy-in energy out routine. And people who exercise regularly will sleep more readily (and thus less likely to be up all night feeding their faces).

>Sorry, I don’t understand what you are saying. I understand some people do not have the advantages of education that most of us have access to in this country, but what I am saying is that happiness may in fact be synonymous with acceptance and contentment. And being able to separate fact from fiction.

I’m saying ideology mediates or adjusts the knobs regards what an individual and people more broadly are contented with (but am happy to consider happiness to be an absence of pathological discontent – ‘patho’ in a soft sense).

By Ideological Apparatus I mean media, school, and religion.

Bubblecar said:

>It appears that whilst being good for almost every other aspect of one’s health, exercise does bugger all to help you lose weight.

I agree with transition that regular exercise does indeed help you lose weight, by helping to return the body to a beneficial energy-in energy out routine. And people who exercise regularly will sleep more readily (and thus less likely to be up all night feeding their faces).

You mean like late-night suppers?

>You mean like late-night suppers?

I must admit I was stuffing myself with leftover peanam soup at gone 2:00am last night, to help keep me awake for the Brazil vs Chile match.

I watched this show this morning. It has reinforced my view that people are lazy and want a quick fix for years of neglect/laziness. It has also reinforced my view that people aren’t always equipped to make healthy choices as fast food advertising is everywhere, all the time. For example, here in the service centre, we cater to people who are travelling. Even if you wanted a healthier choice, you’re stuck with an $11 salad or sushi rolls, neither of which are particularly substantial and come with a variety of unhealthy options in the form of condiments.

As for exercise, it’s a balance of eating foods that aren’t laden with kilojoules and exercising, which boosts metabolism and heart rate which leads to better general health and assisting in digesting foods better.

I think it was Spike Milligan who invented the diet, “eat anything you like, just dont swallow”,

Also, I was reminded of some regular customers who are competitive gym junkies. They’re on a strict diet leading up to a competition but as soon as they’ve finished, they each buy a dozen doughnuts and scoff them all within half an hour (I’ve seen them do it, they sit here and eat junk after a comp).

Divine Angel said:

Also, I was reminded of some regular customers who are competitive gym junkies. They’re on a strict diet leading up to a competition but as soon as they’ve finished, they each buy a dozen doughnuts and scoff them all within half an hour (I’ve seen them do it, they sit here and eat junk after a comp).

Full of carbs,fats and sugars to help with recovery :)

Divine Angel said:

Also, I was reminded of some regular customers who are competitive gym junkies. They’re on a strict diet leading up to a competition but as soon as they’ve finished, they each buy a dozen doughnuts and scoff them all within half an hour (I’ve seen them do it, they sit here and eat junk after a comp).

I don’t think I’ve ever found it possible to eat more than two jam doughnuts (or iced ones, for that matter) in a sitting. Even when it was my post run food after a 10km fun run. Even two was pushing it.

buffy said:

Divine Angel said:

Also, I was reminded of some regular customers who are competitive gym junkies. They’re on a strict diet leading up to a competition but as soon as they’ve finished, they each buy a dozen doughnuts and scoff them all within half an hour (I’ve seen them do it, they sit here and eat junk after a comp).

I don’t think I’ve ever found it possible to eat more than two jam doughnuts (or iced ones, for that matter) in a sitting. Even when it was my post run food after a 10km fun run. Even two was pushing it.

I’ve eaten a dozen KKs in one sitting. There’s nothing to them.

Have you seen the latest (and last) episode? Holy mother of god!! There’s a guy with a tube in his stomach who drains his stomach after every meal. He’s lost a bunch of weight and has a whinge that eating 30% less doesn’t work. What’s the difference between that and bulimia? Apart from the acid damage on teeth and digestive tract from vomiting, of course…

Amazing what people will do to lose weight.

Divine Angel said:

Amazing what people will do to lose weight.

Tell me about it…
Mrs SS is 51kg and still complains she is fat…
(ftr, Anzac is 56kg!)

Geez Anzac! Jasmine is only 37. And she likes couscous, as I found out the other night.

Divine Angel said:

Geez Anzac! Jasmine is only 37. And she likes couscous, as I found out the other night.

yeah, he’s a big boy.
eats a large tin of chum and a large bowl of dry each day
(and still looks hungry)

>Amazing what people will do to lose weight.

Been thinking about this subject, or specifically the of aspects of modern culture that contribute to stacking on the fat.

There’s a lot of half-obvious stuff, like you know lots people don’t have normal physical work/exercise (stretching of the body including leaning down and lifting etc), so can have a bigger tummy and fat restricting esee of movement but it doesn’t slow them down feeding their face.

There’s the evolution explanation, like we are sort of optimized for lean and mean times so stack it on when plentiful, and further there’s the point that supermarkets etc exploit the good feelings that evident abundance tends.

Saw the analogy comparing marketing of food with methods of tobacco industry.

But there’s something missing form it all.

Maybe it’s about sitting to eat. A lot is made of food and meals these days, it’s highly perceptually or conceptually mediated by social things (granted it always has). But I think something has changed. What exactly that is I’m not sure.

Some of the time given food (TV and magazines) is and expression of ‘desire displacement’, I mean really a lot of people would rather watch sex on TV(half serious proposition for my purposes), but there’s a more general displacament or substitution going on. The way TV sort of presents desire is distorted (hence normal efforts to satiate are altered).

But I digress, for a purpose though.

Food and eating have great legitimacy.

It’s been distorted and exalted though.

Somehow eating, oddly has itself become entertainment, and we sit down and view and indulge weirdly in some framework of associations governing this.

I’m not sure of the details, but have a hunch that the moment we sit to eat something has been perverted.

I believe eating has become a substitution behaviour (for many individuals), and this’d explain some examples of more typical eating disorders.
If the range of basic desires is heavily socially mediated – interfered with – from a young age (which school does for example), that the desire-satisfaction mechanisms are relentlessly imposed upon (well before the child gets a feel for them), then I think there are going to be failures, but I caution more of the same is not the answer, but it will be the answer, this is the way these things generally go.

Mums and dads, then them and school and peer influences, have a long history of mediating and imposing on basic desires long before the child itself gets a feel for them as they’d more naturally be expressed and appreciated. These are instincts, including desire, and they don’t always tend to obviousness about what they do and with ease willing in detail of their operation and purpose.

Humans are a strange beast, aware and clever in ways but somewhat ‘instinct blind’. I am not sure this is a product of being socially/culturally receptive, but whatever it makes it possible or even likely instinct and desire be open to cultural distortions.

The fatness problem maybe some twisted outcome of overmediation of basic desires, and no guessing what the fix will, or presently does seem likely to involve.

I agree that eating has become an activity in itself. Look at the popularity of food shows on tv: those judges probably have a stomach tube :p

We hear a lot about alcohol free days.

What we don’t hear a lot about is food free days.

Divine Angel said:

I agree that eating has become an activity in itself. Look at the popularity of food shows on tv: those judges probably have a stomach tube :p

Eating has always been an activity, the access to easy calories has increased considerably the last few decades or so.

>I agree that eating has become an activity in itself. Look at the popularity of food shows on tv: those judges probably have a stomach tube :p

Its so fucken obscene now we have competitive cooking shows, running to our friend clocks, so the clock junkies have us sucking clock cock when we eat.

I avoid them on TV, but some of the bullshit looks to have come from japan.

I think the world is fucked, we worship calendars, clocks, and suck money cock, lick the big stick as never before in history.

It’s a fucken’ disease and frankly the masterminds ought be shot.

poikilotherm said:

Divine Angel said:

I agree that eating has become an activity in itself. Look at the popularity of food shows on tv: those judges probably have a stomach tube :p

Eating has always been an activity, the access to easy calories has increased considerably the last few decades or so.

And people seem to be able to afford to eat stuff all the time. When I went to school, we did not take any money to school as a general rule. So you couldn’t buy things at the milkbar on the way to or from. In my family it was a special treat to get lunch from the canteen, possibly once a fortnight or something. When you got home from school you could have a home made biscuit and a glass of milk. Packets of chips were a treat and you got an icecream if Grandpa came over and took you to the shops and bought you one. Food was, in a way, rationed to breakfast, lunch and tea, with minimal stuff in between.

So we are a rich country.

(I don’t think I had a deprived childhood, most of my friends had a very similar lifestyle)

buffy said:

poikilotherm said:

Divine Angel said:

I agree that eating has become an activity in itself. Look at the popularity of food shows on tv: those judges probably have a stomach tube :p

Eating has always been an activity, the access to easy calories has increased considerably the last few decades or so.

And people seem to be able to afford to eat stuff all the time. When I went to school, we did not take any money to school as a general rule. So you couldn’t buy things at the milkbar on the way to or from. In my family it was a special treat to get lunch from the canteen, possibly once a fortnight or something. When you got home from school you could have a home made biscuit and a glass of milk. Packets of chips were a treat and you got an icecream if Grandpa came over and took you to the shops and bought you one. Food was, in a way, rationed to breakfast, lunch and tea, with minimal stuff in between.

So we are a rich country.

(I don’t think I had a deprived childhood, most of my friends had a very similar lifestyle)

Scottish Presbyterian?

No, Mum is lapsed Catholic and Dad says Cof E but I never saw him go to church. It wasn’t considered poor, we were probably middle class. It was just different. We didn’t feel deprived.

sounds like my childhood buffy. sweets were a treat. we lived in a small village so take aways were non-existant.

I like Harry Seacoms diet,
“eat anything you like, just don’t swallow”

JudgeMental said:

sounds like my childhood buffy. sweets were a treat. we lived in a small village so take aways were non-existant.

Fish and chips were the only take aways when I were a kid.

If I got a bottle of cool drink once a week it was lucky.

JudgeMental said:

sounds like my childhood buffy. sweets were a treat. we lived in a small village so take aways were non-existant.

We were better off than you, at least we could collect and smell the discarded wrappers.

Hmmm. If I say anything more I’ll sound as old as you lot, which is a little depressing

PermeateFree said:

JudgeMental said:

sounds like my childhood buffy. sweets were a treat. we lived in a small village so take aways were non-existant.

We were better off than you, at least we could collect and smell the discarded wrappers.

LUXXUURY, when I was a kid we didn’t even have discarded wrappers, at Xmas dinner we would sit and drool at pictures of discarded wrappers from the local garbage tip!

keep saying stuff like that poik and you’ll be lucky to get as old as us.

right. we were so poor dad would suck a peppermint and we’d sit around him and warm our hands on his breath.

JudgeMental said:

keep saying stuff like that poik and you’ll be lucky to get as old as us.

It’s not natural to get that old. :P

An article about why food is so expensive in Australia.

We have a local independent supey, which has general groceries and niche products for the Kiwis around here. Those general items are generally more expensive than Colesworths with limited range, however their fruit and veg are much cheaper and much better quality.

Two months ago, a Woolies opened up about 200m away from this little supey. It was busy at first as people wandered in to see the big new shiny store, but I’ve noticed that the small supey is always packed and the new Woolies isn’t, despite the small supey’s limited grocery range and higher prices. The new Woolies is an enormous store with everything you can think of and then some, even a sushi shop in the middle of the store! Maybe people around here are simple folk who prefer a smaller supey for convenience rather than making a choice of a million products. Or maybe they still go in for their fruit and veg and can’t be bothered going to the Woolies for other groceries (I do because the small one doesn’t sell caffeine free cola).