Doctors have voted overwhelmingly to push for a permanent ban on the sale of cigarettes to anyone born after 2000
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jun/24/cigarette-ban-british-medical-association
dv said:
Doctors have voted overwhelmingly to push for a permanent ban on the sale of cigarettes to anyone born after 2000http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jun/24/cigarette-ban-british-medical-association
Because prohibition of popular drugs has always been a good idea.
rollseyes
dv said:
Doctors have voted overwhelmingly to push for a permanent ban on the sale of cigarettes to anyone born after 2000http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jun/24/cigarette-ban-british-medical-association
Finally, seemed to me to be a simple solution. But I did not underestimate the billions involved and the barriers that would be placed. An age based ban is sensible and doesn’t really fu k anyone over apart from a govt deprived of income. The other side of the equation is much harder to calculate. Some say that smoking saves the state money and they have convincing arguments.
Which is a funny point if view. If you value freedom of choice and smoking saves the government money then we should encourage smoking? For the greater good, stupidity tax and all that.
dv said:
Doctors have voted overwhelmingly to push for a permanent ban on the sale of cigarettes to anyone born after 2000http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jun/24/cigarette-ban-british-medical-association
Finally, seemed to me to be a simple solution. But I did not underestimate the billions involved and the barriers that would be placed. An age based ban is sensible and doesn’t really fu k anyone over apart from a govt deprived of income. The other side of the equation is much harder to calculate. Some say that smoking saves the state money and they have convincing arguments.
Which is a funny point if view. If you value freedom of choice and smoking saves the government money then we should encourage smoking? For the greater good, stupidity tax and all that.
Good luck with that. It may work for a small portion of the population that don’t have an elder sibling, cousin, friend, parent, grandparent etc that will just buy it for them.
sibeen said:
dv said:
Doctors have voted overwhelmingly to push for a permanent ban on the sale of cigarettes to anyone born after 2000http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jun/24/cigarette-ban-british-medical-association
Because prohibition of popular drugs has always been a good idea.
rollseyes
AwesomeO said:
dv said:
Doctors have voted overwhelmingly to push for a permanent ban on the sale of cigarettes to anyone born after 2000http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jun/24/cigarette-ban-british-medical-association
Finally, seemed to me to be a simple solution.
Oh, simple it is :)
No government in the world can control the use of ‘illegal’ drugs. Here’s a proposition that we only make it illegal for a proportion of the population. Yep, that’ll certainly work.
Thank the great gnu that no child in the UK, under the age of 18, is ever caught out consuming alcohol :)
AwesomeO said:
sibeen said:
dv said:
Doctors have voted overwhelmingly to push for a permanent ban on the sale of cigarettes to anyone born after 2000http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jun/24/cigarette-ban-british-medical-association
Because prohibition of popular drugs has always been a good idea.
rollseyes
.
Tobacco must be hard to grow or process. Happily weed will grow easily and needs little preparation for use.
ROFL. If anything it is probably hardier than weed.
party_pants said:
Good luck with that. It may work for a small portion of the population that don’t have an elder sibling, cousin, friend, parent, grandparent etc that will just buy it for them.
That will reduce with time though. I would be happy for people to stop smoking, there is no real upside apart from a bit of an energy boost but plenty of downside.
Sorry, I did miss the ‘preparation’ part of your post.
Depends what you try to do with it. For cheap scrag tobacco it is just a matter of drying it out.
AwesomeO said:
party_pants said:
Good luck with that. It may work for a small portion of the population that don’t have an elder sibling, cousin, friend, parent, grandparent etc that will just buy it for them.
That will reduce with time though. I would be happy for people to stop smoking, there is no real upside apart from a bit of an energy boost but plenty of downside.
Yeah, it’s not a short-term policy. I guess the aim is to make it socially unacceptable in the long term so people just don’t want to smoke.
sibeen said:
AwesomeO said:
sibeen said:Because prohibition of popular drugs has always been a good idea.
rollseyes
.
Tobacco must be hard to grow or process. Happily weed will grow easily and needs little preparation for use.
ROFL. If anything it is probably hardier than weed.
I know it is a hungry plant, Virginian planters discovered that. Not convinced it is as easy to grow or process till use as weed though. Otherwise there would be more of ot.
sibeen said:
AwesomeO said:
sibeen said:Because prohibition of popular drugs has always been a good idea.
rollseyes
.
Tobacco must be hard to grow or process. Happily weed will grow easily and needs little preparation for use.
ROFL. If anything it is probably hardier than weed.
I know it is a hungry plant, Virginian planters discovered that. Not convinced it is as easy to grow or process till use as weed though. Otherwise there would be more of ot.
As an aside, AFAIK Australia is the only country in the world where it is illegal to sell or purchase seeds of the tobacco plant. A medically guided position (sic) that was taken up by the customs department in the very early 1900s, just after Federation IIRC.
sibeen said:
As an aside, AFAIK Australia is the only country in the world where it is illegal to sell or purchase seeds of the tobacco plant. A medically guided position (sic) that was taken up by the customs department in the very early 1900s, just after Federation IIRC.
There is a thing called shamen nurseries who will sell you gear to get high and how to harvest it from the plant.
Oz has nothing, a continents worth of plants and nothing stone worthy discovered .
Should Cigarette tax go into cancer research and hospital costs for cigarette smokers
How about a proper study into how many cigarette people smoking can kill
Study the figures
work out the cost of cigarette cancer by state
tax cigarette smokers for their future cancer
Is that fair, or there another way?
AwesomeO said:
Not convinced it is as easy to grow or process till use as weed though. Otherwise there would be more of ot.
You can probably buy ‘chop chop’ in every second tobacconist in Australia…and every third milk bar in some areas. It’s quite ubiquitous.
CrazyNeutrino said:
Should Cigarette tax go into cancer research and hospital costs for cigarette smokersHow about a proper study into how many cigarette people smoking can kill
Study the figures
work out the cost of cigarette cancer by state
tax cigarette smokers for their future cancer
Is that fair, or there another way?
Do they as a group pAy heaps in tax and die early before they benefit. I reckon they might be a societal benefit. Show me the numbers. If for everyone costing a Brazilian due to cancer another ten knocked themselves off with strokes and didn’t require a pension then the numbers might even up.
CrazyNeutrino said:
Should Cigarette tax go into cancer research and hospital costs for cigarette smokersHow about a proper study into how many cigarette people smoking can kill
Study the figures
work out the cost of cigarette cancer by state
tax cigarette smokers for their future cancer
Is that fair, or there another way?
Do they as a group pAy heaps in tax and die early before they benefit. I reckon they might be a societal benefit. Show me the numbers. If for everyone costing a Brazilian due to cancer another ten knocked themselves off with strokes and didn’t require a pension then the numbers might even up.
sibeen said:
AwesomeO said:Not convinced it is as easy to grow or process till use as weed though. Otherwise there would be more of ot.You can probably buy ‘chop chop’ in every second tobacconist in Australia…and every third milk bar in some areas. It’s quite ubiquitous.
sibeen said:
AwesomeO said:Not convinced it is as easy to grow or process till use as weed though. Otherwise there would be more of ot.You can probably buy ‘chop chop’ in every second tobacconist in Australia…and every third milk bar in some areas. It’s quite ubiquitous.
You can buy cannabis seeds on the internet
lots of online shops
online shops sell tobacco seeds as well
CrazyNeutrino said:
sibeen said:
AwesomeO said:Not convinced it is as easy to grow or process till use as weed though. Otherwise there would be more of ot.You can probably buy ‘chop chop’ in every second tobacconist in Australia…and every third milk bar in some areas. It’s quite ubiquitous.
You can buy cannabis seeds on the internet
lots of online shops
online shops sell tobacco seeds as well
Online shops refuse to send tobacco seeds to Australia. At least the reputable one’s do.
Not that that will stop anyone.
AwesomeO said:
.
Tobacco must be hard to grow or process. Happily weed will grow easily and needs little preparation for use.
It can’t be that hard to process, but it defeated me many years ago when I was a smoker. If you just dry the leaves, they stay green and I believe that they contain no nicotine. If you snap them and let them dry on the bush, they go brown, but they don’t burn like bought tobacco does.
jjjust moi said:
You can probably buy ‘chop chop’ in every second tobacconist in Australia…and every third milk bar in some areas. It’s quite ubiquitous.
Wouldn’t know, jjjust moi. Have never tried it. I do shudder at the thought though :)
sibeen said:
jjjust moi said:You can probably buy ‘chop chop’ in every second tobacconist in Australia…and every third milk bar in some areas. It’s quite ubiquitous.
and it’s shit. burns your mouth out.
Wouldn’t know, jjjust moi. Have never tried it. I do shudder at the thought though :)
I bought a kilo a few years ago. A kg was cheaper than a 50g pouch, gave most of the shit away.
I only buy tinned tobacco now days, pipe smoker and all that. I can’t even stand the borkum riff style pouch pipe tobaccos…they BURN, and taste like crap. I was sent 2 oz of loose leaf stuff by my overseas provider a few months ago. I’m such a good customer they sent me a freebie.
There’s about 1.95 ouncess left :)
There are some very harsh tobaccos out there. Big name brands.
AwesomeO said:
sibeen said:
As an aside, AFAIK Australia is the only country in the world where it is illegal to sell or purchase seeds of the tobacco plant. A medically guided position (sic) that was taken up by the customs department in the very early 1900s, just after Federation IIRC.
There is a thing called shamen nurseries who will sell you gear to get high and how to harvest it from the plant.
Oz has nothing, a continents worth of plants and nothing stone worthy discovered .
Australia has native tobacco plants, but it is chewing tobacco rather than smoking tobacco, however we do have a plant that is 4 times stronger than tobacco and if used without guidance can kill you. It is called Pituri.
PermeateFree said:
Australia has native tobacco plants, but it is chewing tobacco rather than smoking tobacco, however we do have a plant that is 4 times stronger than tobacco and if used without guidance can kill you. It is called Pituri.
Curious – did the Aborigines use it?
what sort of area is it found?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pituri
Pituri is a traditional chewing tobacco made by indigenous Australians from this species. It is prepared by drying and powdering leaves, flowers and flowering stalks mixing with ash and rolling into quids. Only those plants found in the Mulligan River area are used as these have a greater quantity of nicotine, in contrast to plants from other areas which contain more poisonous nornicotine and are used for animal poison.
The root and bark of the bitter quandong (Santalum murrayanum) was used by the Aborigines at Lake Boga in Victoria to prepare a stupefying drink.
Galbuleminia belgraveana grows in Australia but there is no history of its use by Aborigines. It is used in Papua as an hallucinogen though.
party_pants said:
PermeateFree said:Australia has native tobacco plants, but it is chewing tobacco rather than smoking tobacco, however we do have a plant that is 4 times stronger than tobacco and if used without guidance can kill you. It is called Pituri.
Curious – did the Aborigines use it?
what sort of area is it found?
Long story, best summed up in these links.
http://esperancewildflowers.blogspot.com.au/2013/05/duboisia-hopwoodii-pituri.html
http://esperancewildflowers.blogspot.com.au/2013/05/nicotiana-rotundifolia-round-leaved.html
AwesomeO said:
sibeen said:
As an aside, AFAIK Australia is the only country in the world where it is illegal to sell or purchase seeds of the tobacco plant. A medically guided position (sic) that was taken up by the customs department in the very early 1900s, just after Federation IIRC.
There is a thing called shamen nurseries who will sell you gear to get high and how to harvest it from the plant.
Oz has nothing, a continents worth of plants and nothing stone worthy discovered .
????
So you haven’t heard of Dimethyl Tryptamine?
It can be extracted from a number of Acacia species. There was a federal bill a few years ago attempting to ban many plants (including natives) due to the potential to extract this drug. I have no idea what happened to it. If it did pass, it’ll be just another of the unenforceable laws that our governments seem to delight in these days.
https://www.erowid.org/plants/acacia/acacia.shtml
Teleost said:
AwesomeO said:
sibeen said:
As an aside, AFAIK Australia is the only country in the world where it is illegal to sell or purchase seeds of the tobacco plant. A medically guided position (sic) that was taken up by the customs department in the very early 1900s, just after Federation IIRC.
There is a thing called shamen nurseries who will sell you gear to get high and how to harvest it from the plant.
Oz has nothing, a continents worth of plants and nothing stone worthy discovered .
????
So you haven’t heard of Dimethyl Tryptamine?
It can be extracted from a number of Acacia species. There was a federal bill a few years ago attempting to ban many plants (including natives) due to the potential to extract this drug. I have no idea what happened to it. If it did pass, it’ll be just another of the unenforceable laws that our governments seem to delight in these days.
https://www.erowid.org/plants/acacia/acacia.shtml
I have acacias. Tell me more.
they should just sell LSD at woollies and be done with it
just stay in the house for a few weeks whilst the zombie apocalypse goes on and at the end of it the sun will come from the clouds smiling
roll credits
“But Crocker-Buque said: “Tobacco is not the same as alcohol and prohibition will not work in the same way. The vast majority of people who use alcohol do safely.”“
hmmm safely in what way? I’ve never heard of anyone smoking tobacco and then getting behind the wheel and running some kids down. Never heard of someone lighting up a durry and then punching someone in the face. Never heard of ‘tobacco buses’ where they breath test you for tobacco use.
Leaving aside the obvious health issues of both tobacco and alcohol use.. how is consuming alcohol safer?
Arts said:
hmmm safely in what way? I’ve never heard of anyone smoking tobacco and then getting behind the wheel and running some kids down. Never heard of someone lighting up a durry and then punching someone in the face. Never heard of ‘tobacco buses’ where they breath test you for tobacco use.
Never heard of someone having a few ciggies at the pub then coming home to beat up their missus for not having a hot dinner on the table.
I’m with Arts here. Alcohol is a nasty social drug and tobacco isn’t… unless you’re forced to walk through the cloud of smoke from workers outside a building, but Arts specifically excluded health effects. At least booze bottles can be recycled, unlike cigarette butts.
alcohol drinkers don’t need to take a drink every ten minutes
people who smoke invariably go on to become heavy smokers
cigarettes killed all known male members of my family bar one
thinking about – myself and the other relative were the only ones that didn’t smoke.
coincidence
cigarettes will kill you
Missy Cardamone sat down to lunch on Mother’s Day and couldn’t believe what she saw: her children.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-02/us-heroin-epidemic/5480774
sibeen said:
AwesomeO said:
dv said:
Doctors have voted overwhelmingly to push for a permanent ban on the sale of cigarettes to anyone born after 2000http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jun/24/cigarette-ban-british-medical-association
Finally, seemed to me to be a simple solution.
Oh, simple it is :)
No government in the world can control the use of ‘illegal’ drugs. Here’s a proposition that we only make it illegal for a proportion of the population. Yep, that’ll certainly work.
Thank the great gnu that no child in the UK, under the age of 18, is ever caught out consuming alcohol :)
I’m not sure there is any reasonable expectation that a ban on smoking will completely remove it from society. But there is no question that laws controlling the sale drugs don’t have an impact on use of these drugs.
Most importantly if we can restrict access, less people will use the tobacco, less people will become addicted to tobacco use and less people will suffer the health effects related to tobacco use.
Seams pretty simple to me…
wookiemeister said:
people who smoke invariably go on to become heavy smokers
I don’t think this is true… there are great many people that would be considered ‘regular smokers’ but not ‘heavy smokers’
diddly-squat said:
sibeen said:
AwesomeO said:Finally, seemed to me to be a simple solution.
Oh, simple it is :)
No government in the world can control the use of ‘illegal’ drugs. Here’s a proposition that we only make it illegal for a proportion of the population. Yep, that’ll certainly work.
Thank the great gnu that no child in the UK, under the age of 18, is ever caught out consuming alcohol :)
I’m not sure there is any reasonable expectation that a ban on smoking will completely remove it from society. But there is no question that laws controlling the sale drugs don’t have an impact on use of these drugs.
Most importantly if we can restrict access, less people will use the tobacco, less people will become addicted to tobacco use and less people will suffer the health effects related to tobacco use.
Seams pretty simple to me…