The coalition has flagged changes to social security that hobble those looking for employment to a brutal degree. Thankfully business leaders have pointed out that the latest announcement requiring 40 job applications per fortnight would see them unnecessarily inundated with job applications.

From my perspective it is the job market which is in dire need of attention, leaving these moves by the coalition as cynical and openly hostile attacks on those without the means to offer resisitance.

Are there ANY plans that directly address providing more jobs? There have been developments in providing education but this does not seem to be matched by growth in jobs.

Postpocelipse said:

The coalition has flagged changes to social security that hobble those looking for employment to a brutal degree. Thankfully business leaders have pointed out that the latest announcement requiring 40 job applications per fortnight would see them unnecessarily inundated with job applications.

From my perspective it is the job market which is in dire need of attention, leaving these moves by the coalition as cynical and openly hostile attacks on those without the means to offer resisitance.

Are there ANY plans that directly address providing more jobs? There have been developments in providing education but this does not seem to be matched by growth in jobs.

In many parts of rural Australia there are not 40 businesses to whom job seekers can apply.

Tamb said:

Postpocelipse said:

The coalition has flagged changes to social security that hobble those looking for employment to a brutal degree. Thankfully business leaders have pointed out that the latest announcement requiring 40 job applications per fortnight would see them unnecessarily inundated with job applications.

From my perspective it is the job market which is in dire need of attention, leaving these moves by the coalition as cynical and openly hostile attacks on those without the means to offer resisitance.

Are there ANY plans that directly address providing more jobs? There have been developments in providing education but this does not seem to be matched by growth in jobs.

In many parts of rural Australia there are not 40 businesses to whom job seekers can apply.

The best I can expect in Brisbane is around 10 a fortnight…… and they are generally long shots.

one solution would be for all jobseekers to apply to senaters, sitting members, govt agencies, departments for work. clog up their email and snail mail with applications. 1/2 a mill unemployed x 40 per month = chaos.

:-)

Postpocelipse said:

The coalition has flagged changes to social security that hobble those looking for employment to a brutal degree. Thankfully business leaders have pointed out that the latest announcement requiring 40 job applications per fortnight would see them unnecessarily inundated with job applications.

From my perspective it is the job market which is in dire need of attention, leaving these moves by the coalition as cynical and openly hostile attacks on those without the means to offer resisitance.

Are there ANY plans that directly address providing more jobs? There have been developments in providing education but this does not seem to be matched by growth in jobs.

These changes have nothing to do with creating more jobs, they are merely a way to remove (at least temporarily) people from the Jobsearch payment. This means less money being paid out, and better statistics.

ChrispenEvan said:

one solution would be for all jobseekers to apply to senaters, sitting members, govt agencies, departments for work. clog up their email and snail mail with applications. 1/2 a mill unemployed x 40 per month = chaos.

:-)

Awesome. Love your work.

ChrispenEvan said:

one solution would be for all jobseekers to apply to senaters, sitting members, govt agencies, departments for work. clog up their email and snail mail with applications. 1/2 a mill unemployed x 40 per month = chaos.

:-)

Poignant. I might just promote that idea.

Carmen_Sandiego said:

ChrispenEvan said:

one solution would be for all jobseekers to apply to senaters, sitting members, govt agencies, departments for work. clog up their email and snail mail with applications. 1/2 a mill unemployed x 40 per month = chaos.

:-)

Awesome. Love your work.

Something like that happened with the rural fire service. The govt seemed intent on destroying it so the fireies parked their trucks outside their local members offices & left them there. A series of frantic phone calls later the situation was resolved & the service prospered.

Carmen_Sandiego said:

ChrispenEvan said:

one solution would be for all jobseekers to apply to senaters, sitting members, govt agencies, departments for work. clog up their email and snail mail with applications. 1/2 a mill unemployed x 40 per month = chaos.

:-)

Awesome. Love your work.

Brilliant!

>In many parts of rural Australia there are not 40 businesses to whom job seekers can apply.

This is how they (the fascists, and I mean that) will get people to travel (much further), and even move. Previously they couldn’t implement the policy because it would have (obviously) imposed on homelife resulting in neglect of home-related aspects of life, so instead they have BenterSpank doing it (some other way) for them through this sorta defacto proximate mechanism. What’s has happened is BenterSpank have become a dominant aspect of the Ideological State Apparatus, or a dominant tool, to similar ends.

Basically the government have evolved into a corrupt bunch of fascists. They don’t use guns, but have quite an arsenal of other means at their disposal.

J.Hockey.MP@aph.gov.au

senator.abetz@aph.gov.au

Tamb said:

Carmen_Sandiego said:

ChrispenEvan said:

one solution would be for all jobseekers to apply to senaters, sitting members, govt agencies, departments for work. clog up their email and snail mail with applications. 1/2 a mill unemployed x 40 per month = chaos.

:-)

Awesome. Love your work.

Something like that happened with the rural fire service. The govt seemed intent on destroying it so the fireies parked their trucks outside their local members offices & left them there. A series of frantic phone calls later the situation was resolved & the service prospered.

Unfortunately, they’ll probably just declare MP offices and other government departments non-valid application positions.

and it’s 40 jobs per month, not fortnight… (and this is not comment on the reasonableness of the requirement either way)

For me this isn’t even the biggest problem with the proposed changes… the real issue, the one that is likely to cause real distress, is the no payments for 6 months for those younger than 30. This creates the expectation that financial means will most likely have to come from family or friends.

And I don’t have any problem with a work for the dole program as long as the work the is being undertaken is in increasing the employability (in terms of either skills or experience) of the individuals involved.

Michael V said:

Carmen_Sandiego said:

ChrispenEvan said:

one solution would be for all jobseekers to apply to senaters, sitting members, govt agencies, departments for work. clog up their email and snail mail with applications. 1/2 a mill unemployed x 40 per month = chaos.

:-)

Awesome. Love your work.

Brilliant!

Except that mailing your CV to a MP or Senator directly, or to their office, is likely to be considered a ‘job application’.

Maybe the unemployed in a district should each form $2 shelf companies & apply to each other for jobs.

Tamb said:

Maybe the unemployed in a district should each form $2 shelf companies & apply to each other for jobs.

we should also note that none of these changes have as yet passed the senate; and it is highly unlikely that, in their current form, they will pass

diddly-squat said:

and it’s 40 jobs per month, not fortnight… (and this is not comment on the reasonableness of the requirement either way)

For me this isn’t even the biggest problem with the proposed changes… the real issue, the one that is likely to cause real distress, is the no payments for 6 months for those younger than 30. This creates the expectation that financial means will most likely have to come from family or friends.

And I don’t have any problem with a work for the dole program as long as the work the is being undertaken is in increasing the employability (in terms of either skills or experience) of the individuals involved.

Salient points entirely. With work for the dole I would also make the point that for those who enter a work for the dole arrangement it would be genuinely fair to raise the newstart recieved to match what a disabled pensioner recieves. The current newstart amount does not provide enough for an unemployed person to afford their own accomadation. If this were provided then even if the position doesn’t provide meaningful experience that can be applied in paying work, people would still be happy to turn up.

diddly-squat said:

and it’s 40 jobs per month, not fortnight… (and this is not comment on the reasonableness of the requirement either way)

For me this isn’t even the biggest problem with the proposed changes… the real issue, the one that is likely to cause real distress, is the no payments for 6 months for those younger than 30. This creates the expectation that financial means will most likely have to come from family or friends.

And I don’t have any problem with a work for the dole program as long as the work the is being undertaken is in increasing the employability (in terms of either skills or experience) of the individuals involved.

Work for the dole is great, why pay someone to work when the gubmint will do it for me…

Michael V said:

Carmen_Sandiego said:

ChrispenEvan said:

one solution would be for all jobseekers to apply to senaters, sitting members, govt agencies, departments for work. clog up their email and snail mail with applications. 1/2 a mill unemployed x 40 per month = chaos.

:-)

Awesome. Love your work.

Brilliant!

That would be a most excellent form of protest. Now, someone just has to organise them like the pensioners organise…

Postpocelipse said:

diddly-squat said:

and it’s 40 jobs per month, not fortnight… (and this is not comment on the reasonableness of the requirement either way)

For me this isn’t even the biggest problem with the proposed changes… the real issue, the one that is likely to cause real distress, is the no payments for 6 months for those younger than 30. This creates the expectation that financial means will most likely have to come from family or friends.

And I don’t have any problem with a work for the dole program as long as the work the is being undertaken is in increasing the employability (in terms of either skills or experience) of the individuals involved.

Salient points entirely. With work for the dole I would also make the point that for those who enter a work for the dole arrangement it would be genuinely fair to raise the newstart recieved to match what a disabled pensioner recieves. The current newstart amount does not provide enough for an unemployed person to afford their own accomadation. If this were provided then even if the position doesn’t provide meaningful experience that can be applied in paying work, people would still be happy to turn up.

yeah…. that aint gonna happen…

diddly-squat said:

Postpocelipse said:

diddly-squat said:

and it’s 40 jobs per month, not fortnight… (and this is not comment on the reasonableness of the requirement either way)

For me this isn’t even the biggest problem with the proposed changes… the real issue, the one that is likely to cause real distress, is the no payments for 6 months for those younger than 30. This creates the expectation that financial means will most likely have to come from family or friends.

And I don’t have any problem with a work for the dole program as long as the work the is being undertaken is in increasing the employability (in terms of either skills or experience) of the individuals involved.

Salient points entirely. With work for the dole I would also make the point that for those who enter a work for the dole arrangement it would be genuinely fair to raise the newstart recieved to match what a disabled pensioner recieves. The current newstart amount does not provide enough for an unemployed person to afford their own accomadation. If this were provided then even if the position doesn’t provide meaningful experience that can be applied in paying work, people would still be happy to turn up.

yeah…. that aint gonna happen…

It would be good for the economy but you can’t convince 6 figure earners that spending by the poor contributes to anything……

poikilotherm said:

Work for the dole is great, why pay someone to work when the gubmint will do it for me…

That’s my concern with the system. Who is currently doing all the work that the unemployed will be doing?

Postpocelipse said:

diddly-squat said:

Postpocelipse said:

Salient points entirely. With work for the dole I would also make the point that for those who enter a work for the dole arrangement it would be genuinely fair to raise the newstart recieved to match what a disabled pensioner recieves. The current newstart amount does not provide enough for an unemployed person to afford their own accomadation. If this were provided then even if the position doesn’t provide meaningful experience that can be applied in paying work, people would still be happy to turn up.

yeah…. that aint gonna happen…

It would be good for the economy but you can’t convince 6 figure earners that spending by the poor contributes to anything……

I’m not entirely sure how increasing dole payments would be ‘good for the economy’

Carmen_Sandiego said:

poikilotherm said:

Work for the dole is great, why pay someone to work when the gubmint will do it for me…

That’s my concern with the system. Who is currently doing all the work that the unemployed will be doing?

it would appear that largely no one is… most of the proposed schemes involve largely medial manual laboring roles on local government “greenification” projects.

think of increases to the dole going into local businesses. people on the dole have to buy things to survive, and i’m not talking drugs, alcohol and ciggies, (though this money too goes back into businesses), so it would be like a continuous stimulation package.

diddly-squat said:

Postpocelipse said:

diddly-squat said:

yeah…. that aint gonna happen…

It would be good for the economy but you can’t convince 6 figure earners that spending by the poor contributes to anything……

I’m not entirely sure how increasing dole payments would be ‘good for the economy’

If people were working for the dole it would be a wage(albeit negligible). It is not the big bucks being spent that maintains the baseline economy. Major industry should not be included in evaluating the living economy that average people have to survive through.

diddly-squat said:

Carmen_Sandiego said:

poikilotherm said:

Work for the dole is great, why pay someone to work when the gubmint will do it for me…

That’s my concern with the system. Who is currently doing all the work that the unemployed will be doing?

it would appear that largely no one is… most of the proposed schemes involve largely medial manual laboring roles on local government “greenification” projects.

I hope they only send the young and fit to labouring jobs?

ChrispenEvan said:

think of increases to the dole going into local businesses. people on the dole have to buy things to survive, and i’m not talking drugs, alcohol and ciggies, (though this money too goes back into businesses), so it would be like a continuous stimulation package.

mmmm tax increase.

poikilotherm said:

ChrispenEvan said:

think of increases to the dole going into local businesses. people on the dole have to buy things to survive, and i’m not talking drugs, alcohol and ciggies, (though this money too goes back into businesses), so it would be like a continuous stimulation package.

mmmm tax increase.

easy fix, make the increase big enough to put them over the TFT…

poikilotherm said:

ChrispenEvan said:

think of increases to the dole going into local businesses. people on the dole have to buy things to survive, and i’m not talking drugs, alcohol and ciggies, (though this money too goes back into businesses), so it would be like a continuous stimulation package.

mmmm tax increase.

What big business pays into the community should not be classified in the same bracket as the taxes the general population experiences.

you may have missed this poik which i earlier posted here

http://www.smh.com.au/national/what-happened-to-the-fair-go-20140728-3cpmf.html#ixzz38oU5guX9

;-)

Postpocelipse said:

poikilotherm said:

ChrispenEvan said:

think of increases to the dole going into local businesses. people on the dole have to buy things to survive, and i’m not talking drugs, alcohol and ciggies, (though this money too goes back into businesses), so it would be like a continuous stimulation package.

mmmm tax increase.

What big business pays into the community should not be classified in the same bracket as the taxes the general population experiences.

Is that some kind of magic pudding economics?

It’s a bit of a long term structural problem within our economy. Technology allows many jobs that were previous;y done within Australia to be moved offshore. I’ve seen it in my days at the bank, jobs that are essentially brain work can be done anywhere in the world. It’s only things that have to be done physically that are guaranteed a future. Even then there is a move to robotics and remote control which potentially could be done overseas too. Manufacturing and processing is also shrinking within Australia. We seem to be moving to a two-tier economy, with the second tier being low paid low-skilled retail and hospitality with no leave entitlements or penalty rates and low job security.

I don’t know the solution, it’s just an observation, not a criticism of which mob are in government at the time.

poikilotherm said:

Postpocelipse said:

poikilotherm said:

mmmm tax increase.

What big business pays into the community should not be classified in the same bracket as the taxes the general population experiences.

Is that some kind of magic pudding economics?

No I just see companies wringing their hands about the position they are in as pretentious and predatory.

party_pants said:

It’s a bit of a long term structural problem within our economy. Technology allows many jobs that were previous;y done within Australia to be moved offshore. I’ve seen it in my days at the bank, jobs that are essentially brain work can be done anywhere in the world. It’s only things that have to be done physically that are guaranteed a future. Even then there is a move to robotics and remote control which potentially could be done overseas too. Manufacturing and processing is also shrinking within Australia. We seem to be moving to a two-tier economy, with the second tier being low paid low-skilled retail and hospitality with no leave entitlements or penalty rates and low job security.

Yes it is very interesting times, Africa will probably end up the cheap manufacturing hub of the world with its own internal mineral resources. Everything is in a state of flux with mass movements of the words poor going to become a huge political issue in Europe.

The royal commission into trade unions is a political witch hunt

AwesomeO said:

party_pants said:

It’s a bit of a long term structural problem within our economy. Technology allows many jobs that were previous;y done within Australia to be moved offshore. I’ve seen it in my days at the bank, jobs that are essentially brain work can be done anywhere in the world. It’s only things that have to be done physically that are guaranteed a future. Even then there is a move to robotics and remote control which potentially could be done overseas too. Manufacturing and processing is also shrinking within Australia. We seem to be moving to a two-tier economy, with the second tier being low paid low-skilled retail and hospitality with no leave entitlements or penalty rates and low job security.

Yes it is very interesting times, Africa will probably end up the cheap manufacturing hub of the world with its own internal mineral resources. Everything is in a state of flux with mass movements of the words poor going to become a huge political issue in Europe.

Don’t think it will be Africa. The predominant culture in sub-Saharan Africa is destructive corruption.

AwesomeO said:

I hope they only send the young and fit to labouring jobs?

Wired up a shed at a church that involved a 100m trench for the wires. Church balked at the cost and said they’d organise the trench. Long story short, some 19yo overweight goth chick rocked up for her “community service”. She gave it a go but we didn’t have the weeks required for her to finish the work. We sent her away (after signing her paperwork) and demanded someone more suitable.

Rocked up to the next day at 7am and there was a very fit bloke already half way through the work. He finished by smoko then buggered off.

What kind of work do these work-for-the-dole people do anyway?

Divine Angel said:

What kind of work do these work-for-the-dole people do anyway?

Two local programs involve planting seedlings on the one hand and dis/assembling computers for the low-cost computer supply scheme.

Divine Angel said:

What kind of work do these work-for-the-dole people do anyway?

usually it’s local government projects (greenification, development of civic assets, etc..)

BenterSpank money, pensions and all half keeps the economy going. The entire thing fairly much operates day to day this way.

Pensioners etc buy from shops, pay bills….need housing, need security, they look after grandchildren too. They holiday, buy fuel……..

tony and joe
not for their objectives
have got to go
for their corruption of English

their sloganisms
their put downs
their humiliations
their AK47s
the class system
their captains

There is one fool proof way of creating more jobs, don’t give fools high wages.

MPs and management in all sectors could take minimal wage cuts to keep everyone else employed

Someone was complaining to me about one parasite in a gov funded business getting half of the money allotted to them by the gov!!!!

They could easily employ 4 other people and find some other manager to work for less

wookiemeister said:

There is one fool proof way of creating more jobs, don’t give fools high wages.

MPs and management in all sectors could take minimal wage cuts to keep everyone else employed

Someone was complaining to me about one parasite in a gov funded business getting half of the money allotted to them by the gov!!!!

They could easily employ 4 other people and find some other manager to work for less

that is complete and utter nonsense…

the ‘answer’ to unemployment is to create more jobs by expanding the market, not by reducing productivity.

diddly-squat said:

wookiemeister said:

There is one fool proof way of creating more jobs, don’t give fools high wages.

MPs and management in all sectors could take minimal wage cuts to keep everyone else employed

Someone was complaining to me about one parasite in a gov funded business getting half of the money allotted to them by the gov!!!!

They could easily employ 4 other people and find some other manager to work for less

that is complete and utter nonsense…

the ‘answer’ to unemployment is to create more jobs by expanding the market, not by reducing productivity.

And you certainly don’t do that by cutting the income of large numbers of people.

They need to look at a revamp of trade agreements. Make things cheaper do buy that are locally built, increasing the need for businesses to be formed here to supply.

diddly-squat said:

wookiemeister said:

There is one fool proof way of creating more jobs, don’t give fools high wages.

MPs and management in all sectors could take minimal wage cuts to keep everyone else employed

Someone was complaining to me about one parasite in a gov funded business getting half of the money allotted to them by the gov!!!!

They could easily employ 4 other people and find some other manager to work for less

that is complete and utter nonsense…

the ‘answer’ to unemployment is to create more jobs by expanding the market, not by reducing productivity.

You would immediately improve productivity by having more people doing work than “ organising”

Productivity failings are squarely on managements shoulders, sacking more people and driving wages down is a recipe for disaster