If Hitler hadn’t been born, would there have been WW II?

bob(from black rock) said:

If Hitler hadn’t been born, would there have been WW II?

Though there may have been a second European war in the corresponding period, IMO WW2 as we recognise it wouldn’t have happened without Hitler to guide events in Germany from 1930 onwards.

Japan seemed to be fighting their own little war.

bob(from black rock) said:

If Hitler hadn’t been born, would there have been WW II?

It’s likely, the push towards a nationalist sentiment in German in the last 30s and early 40s was independent of the individuals alone… it’s not like Hitler was the only person in Germany at the time with these types of views.

Divine Angel said:

Japan seemed to be fighting their own little war.

True. The Japanese offensive in the Pacific would probably have happened anyway give or take a few slight changes.

bob(from black rock) said:

If Hitler hadn’t been born, would there have been WW II?

I doubt it.. But then again facism might have been a longer lived experiment

Witty Rejoinder said:

bob(from black rock) said:

If Hitler hadn’t been born, would there have been WW II?

Though there may have been a second European war in the corresponding period, IMO WW2 as we recognise it wouldn’t have happened without Hitler to guide events in Germany from 1930 onwards.

It’s possible either way I suppose, but it’s not like Hitler was Robinson Crusoe

There may have been a United Facists state war against Russia…

And the Jap misadventure may still have occurred.

Although I wonder, if WWII didn’t happen, would we have experienced nuclear warfare?

Dropbear said:

There may have been a United Facists state war against Russia…

And the Jap misadventure may still have occurred.

Yup, if England washed their hands of things hitlers replacement would have made a good fist of things.

Divine Angel said:

Although I wonder, if WWII didn’t happen, would we have experienced nuclear warfare?

presumably no…

Divine Angel said:

Although I wonder, if WWII didn’t happen, would we have experienced nuclear warfare?

Proly not.

diddly-squat said:

Divine Angel said:

Although I wonder, if WWII didn’t happen, would we have experienced nuclear warfare?

presumably no…

If history continued the same if WWII didn’t occur, then sure. But if the US really wanted to see what would happen, the Cold War would have provided them an opportunity to drop a nuke or two.

Divine Angel said:

diddly-squat said:

Divine Angel said:

Although I wonder, if WWII didn’t happen, would we have experienced nuclear warfare?

presumably no…

If history continued the same if WWII didn’t occur, then sure. But if the US really wanted to see what would happen, the Cold War would have provided them an opportunity to drop a nuke or two.

Would the cold war have happened without WWII?

bob(from black rock) said:

Divine Angel said:

Although I wonder, if WWII didn’t happen, would we have experienced nuclear warfare?

Proly not.

Without hitler getting rid of his Jewish braintrust and naziing up the curriculum German academies and sciences would probably been first to the bomb.

Divine Angel said:

diddly-squat said:

Divine Angel said:

Although I wonder, if WWII didn’t happen, would we have experienced nuclear warfare?

presumably no…

If history continued the same if WWII didn’t occur, then sure. But if the US really wanted to see what would happen, the Cold War would have provided them an opportunity to drop a nuke or two.

except that it wasn’t a notion of “let’s see what would happen if” that stopped the US (or the USSR for that matter) dropping a bomb in anger… it was the fear of mutually assured destruction.

Divine Angel said:

Japan seemed to be fighting their own little war.

Oil

poikilotherm said:

Divine Angel said:

diddly-squat said:

presumably no…

If history continued the same if WWII didn’t occur, then sure. But if the US really wanted to see what would happen, the Cold War would have provided them an opportunity to drop a nuke or two.

Would the cold war have happened without WWII?

I think so… the cold war was more a result of political movement in the USSR vs that in the US as opposed to fallout from WWII

Didn’t Hitlers weird esoteric ideas somewhat derail the German war effort.
If you’ve read the losses the USSR suffered during WWII it was enormous and yet they still became a superpower imagine if they weren’t weakened at all

diddly-squat said:

bob(from black rock) said:

If Hitler hadn’t been born, would there have been WW II?

It’s likely, the push towards a nationalist sentiment in German in the last 30s and early 40s was independent of the individuals alone… it’s not like Hitler was the only person in Germany at the time with these types of views.

think of Himmler and the other Nazis

think of Himmler, Göring and all the other Nazis

Lots of them, too many with a bad cause

Nazi Germany

they were really off the rails

lots of people in Germany did not like them

diddly-squat said:

Divine Angel said:

Although I wonder, if WWII didn’t happen, would we have experienced nuclear warfare?

presumably no…

I think it would.. The physics of chain reactions was pretty well understood in the 30s

Sure, there were others with the Nazi mentality, but lacking a Hitler figure, would anyone have volunteered to be a Leader and push the way Hitler did?

Cymek said:

Didn’t Hitlers weird esoteric ideas somewhat derail the German war effort.
If you’ve read the losses the USSR suffered during WWII it was enormous and yet they still became a superpower imagine if they weren’t weakened at all

Russia’s unlimited resources was basically manpower. That’s why they could absorb 20 million casualties…

How do you Godwin a thread about Hitler?

Dropbear said:

Cymek said:

Didn’t Hitlers weird esoteric ideas somewhat derail the German war effort.
If you’ve read the losses the USSR suffered during WWII it was enormous and yet they still became a superpower imagine if they weren’t weakened at all

Russia’s unlimited resources was basically manpower. That’s why they could absorb 20 million casualties…

Do you think they’d have emerged a super power if WWII didn’t take place?

Divine Angel said:

Sure, there were others with the Nazi mentality, but lacking a Hitler figure, would anyone have volunteered to be a Leader and push the way Hitler did?

Facism was entrenched in Germany, Span, Italy…. It was a popular nationalist movement..

People have always been easily motivated by patriotist twaddle

Skeptic Pete said:

How do you Godwin a thread about Hitler?

Get Basil Fawlty to try not to mention the war.

Cymek said:

Do you think they’d have emerged a super power if WWII didn’t take place?

No one knows, my son, no one knows.
IMO yes.

Dropbear said:

Divine Angel said:

Sure, there were others with the Nazi mentality, but lacking a Hitler figure, would anyone have volunteered to be a Leader and push the way Hitler did?

Facism was entrenched in Germany, Span, Italy…. It was a popular nationalist movement..

People have always been easily motivated by patriotist twaddle

Its funny as it all takes basically the same form and with hindsight you can see the manipulation of the people.

Cymek said:

Dropbear said:

Cymek said:

Didn’t Hitlers weird esoteric ideas somewhat derail the German war effort.
If you’ve read the losses the USSR suffered during WWII it was enormous and yet they still became a superpower imagine if they weren’t weakened at all

Russia’s unlimited resources was basically manpower. That’s why they could absorb 20 million casualties…

Do you think they’d have emerged a super power if WWII didn’t take place?

Possibly. Stalin was as big a nutter as Herr Hitler

WWII in the form it took may have prevented a later WWII with nukes

Would Jews still have been a target?

Cymek said:

Dropbear said:

Cymek said:

Didn’t Hitlers weird esoteric ideas somewhat derail the German war effort.
If you’ve read the losses the USSR suffered during WWII it was enormous and yet they still became a superpower imagine if they weren’t weakened at all

Russia’s unlimited resources was basically manpower. That’s why they could absorb 20 million casualties…

Do you think they’d have emerged a super power if WWII didn’t take place?

Probably, without a belligerent England, America wouldn’t be arsed and either nazis or connies would own the heartland of Europe.

Dropbear said:

Cymek said:

Dropbear said:

Russia’s unlimited resources was basically manpower. That’s why they could absorb 20 million casualties…

Do you think they’d have emerged a super power if WWII didn’t take place?

Possibly. Stalin was as big a nutter as Herr Hitler

Absolutely

Divine Angel said:

Would Jews still have been a target?

Yea, they’ve been hated throughout history.

poikilotherm said:

Divine Angel said:

Would Jews still have been a target?

Yea, they’ve been hated throughout history.

Well that’s just rude.

poikilotherm said:

Divine Angel said:

Would Jews still have been a target?

Yea, they’ve been hated throughout history.

See

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_antisemitism

Antisemitism since 586 BCE

How close were the Nazi’s to building a nuke?

Its interesting when people can organize other people into doing something bad

CrazyNeutrino said:

Its interesting when people can organize other people into doing something bad

and how quickly did they do it

lets collect 10,000 people

and we saw that with ISIS how quickly they got up to 10,000, then 18,000 etc

CrazyNeutrino said:

How close were the Nazi’s to building a nuke?

Not that close.

Their research was hampered by the divisiveness, parochialism, and empire-building that plagued their war-production efforts.

They’d lost a lot of good scientist in the pre-war period, and they didn’t have access to raw material as easily as did the Allies.

captain_spalding said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

How close were the Nazi’s to building a nuke?

Not that close.

Their research was hampered by the divisiveness, parochialism, and empire-building that plagued their war-production efforts.

They’d lost a lot of good scientist in the pre-war period, and they didn’t have access to raw material as easily as did the Allies.

good for us that they were hampered by their own

Tonight’s Wookster Report will be off the scale when he sees this thread.

captain_spalding said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

How close were the Nazi’s to building a nuke?

Not that close.

Their research was hampered by the divisiveness, parochialism, and empire-building that plagued their war-production efforts.

They’d lost a lot of good scientist in the pre-war period, and they didn’t have access to raw material as easily as did the Allies.

And whatever gains they had were neutralised by the Americans blowing up their heavy water generation station. Twice.

Carmen_Sandiego said:

captain_spalding said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

How close were the Nazi’s to building a nuke?

Not that close.

Their research was hampered by the divisiveness, parochialism, and empire-building that plagued their war-production efforts.

They’d lost a lot of good scientist in the pre-war period, and they didn’t have access to raw material as easily as did the Allies.

And whatever gains they had were neutralised by the Americans blowing up their heavy water generation station. Twice.

The heroes of telemark might be a bit miffed at the US Army Airforce getting all the credit.

Wow – this thread has really taken off like wildfire. So sorry of this has already been covered.

I think yes, some form of war would still have happened without Hitler. Germany versus Russia for one. Hitler’s manifesto about living space in eastern Europe was never a new concept, Germany always feared a rising industrialised Russia would become a vast superpower bigger then they could cope with, and the race element behind it was also there well before WW1. Italy woulkd still have sough territory in Africa, drawing a response from France and the UK. Japan would still have been Japan and would have eventually gone to war with the USA, France and the UK over territory in the Pacific. Whether there would have still been a war in western Europe I don’t know,

bob(from black rock) said:

If Hitler hadn’t been born, would there have been WW II?

most likely though in a different form (WWII that is not WW 11)

hitler was one of the returned troops from the front that was abandoned by the state after the war, unemployment, inflation, it was a matter of time. the national socialist party already existed when hitler joined it, he was initially working for the army as a spy when he was sent to them to see what they were up to, he figured that he could make a living as a leader of the political party than an army spy.

the storm troopers weren’t hitlers idea they already existed

hitler hated the storm troopers so he created his own personal body guard that morphed into the SS

not that WW2, no.

transition said:

not that WW2, no.

Huh, which world war are we talking about?

2 or 11

are we up to 11 now?