Date: 17/09/2014 11:04:49
From: dv
ID: 594959
Subject: VicHealth report on violence against women

ABC article

>>One in five Australians believe a woman is “partly responsible” for being raped if she is intoxicated, a national survey conducted by VicHealth has found. The poll of 17,500 people also found one in six people support the notion that when women say no to sex, they mean yes.

VicHealth page with links to article downloads

>>The survey tells us that we have been able to challenge a culture that allows violence against women to occur. There have been sustained improvements since 1995 in a number of areas. However, there are other areas in which progress has been minimal, along with some concerning negative findings.

——
The survey mostly takes the form of presenting statements with which the respondent either agrees/disagrees.

There certainly are some results here that I find disturbing, e.g. that as many as 4% of respondents thought that violence was acceptable if a partner tries to end a relationship. 4% were unaware that domestic violence is a criminal offence.

Other aspects of the survey raise questions for me about the methodology or reasoning.

VicHealth chief executive Jerril Rechter: “But some progress is being made. For instance, Ms Rechter said people now understand that violence includes emotional and social abuse.”
This appears to beg the question somewhat. Whether violence includes social or emotional abuse is a semantic question: certainly, I would not consider the word “violence” to include social or emotional abuse.

eg There is a question about whether various activities constitute violence. Some of them are:

Tries to control by denying partner money
Harasses by repeated emails/text messages

These are certainly unwanted behaviour, but I’d answer “no” to the question on whether they are violence. Broadening the word “violence” to include all kinds of unpleasant behaviour weakens the impact of the concept of actual violence. I realise there are counterarguments and that some people will have very good reasons for wanting a broad definition of violence but I don’t see why Rechter views an increase in the number of people answering “yes” to the question of whether these are violence as progress.

For a lot of these questions, my answer would be “I don’t know” and I would think that should be the case for most respondents. I really don’t know whether “Women with disabilities are more likely than other women to experience violence”. Sorry I don’t know everything.

I also don’t know what the “main cause” of domestic violence is. Causality in the real world is complex, especially in relation to psychological and behavioural matters. In the question regarding the main cause, respondents were given only three options:
a)“Some men being unable to manage their anger”
b)“The belief that men should be in charge of the relationship”
c)“Some men being under financial stress”

I suspect that all of that plays a role as well as many more. The authors’ comments on these results very strongly indicate that they think that option b) there is the only correct answer.

The authors also think that the “it’s hard to understand why women stay in a violent
relationship” is an example of trivialising violence against women. 78% agreed that it’s hard to understand this. I know I do. I’m surprised it is not 100%.

Other questions are a bit vague, quantitatively:

“A lot of times women who say they were raped led the man on and later had regrets”

Well, what is a lot? Is a hundred per year a lot? A thousand per year?

Reply Quote

Date: 17/09/2014 11:09:09
From: Carmen_Sandiego
ID: 594960
Subject: re: VicHealth report on violence against women

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0ZZJXw4MTA

Reply Quote

Date: 17/09/2014 11:11:01
From: CrazyNeutrino
ID: 594961
Subject: re: VicHealth report on violence against women

dv said:


ABC article

>>One in five Australians believe a woman is “partly responsible” for being raped if she is intoxicated, a national survey conducted by VicHealth has found. The poll of 17,500 people also found one in six people support the notion that when women say no to sex, they mean yes.

VicHealth page with links to article downloads

>>The survey tells us that we have been able to challenge a culture that allows violence against women to occur. There have been sustained improvements since 1995 in a number of areas. However, there are other areas in which progress has been minimal, along with some concerning negative findings.

——
The survey mostly takes the form of presenting statements with which the respondent either agrees/disagrees.

There certainly are some results here that I find disturbing, e.g. that as many as 4% of respondents thought that violence was acceptable if a partner tries to end a relationship. 4% were unaware that domestic violence is a criminal offence.

Other aspects of the survey raise questions for me about the methodology or reasoning.

VicHealth chief executive Jerril Rechter: “But some progress is being made. For instance, Ms Rechter said people now understand that violence includes emotional and social abuse.”
This appears to beg the question somewhat. Whether violence includes social or emotional abuse is a semantic question: certainly, I would not consider the word “violence” to include social or emotional abuse.

eg There is a question about whether various activities constitute violence. Some of them are:

Tries to control by denying partner money
Harasses by repeated emails/text messages

These are certainly unwanted behaviour, but I’d answer “no” to the question on whether they are violence. Broadening the word “violence” to include all kinds of unpleasant behaviour weakens the impact of the concept of actual violence. I realise there are counterarguments and that some people will have very good reasons for wanting a broad definition of violence but I don’t see why Rechter views an increase in the number of people answering “yes” to the question of whether these are violence as progress.

For a lot of these questions, my answer would be “I don’t know” and I would think that should be the case for most respondents. I really don’t know whether “Women with disabilities are more likely than other women to experience violence”. Sorry I don’t know everything.

I also don’t know what the “main cause” of domestic violence is. Causality in the real world is complex, especially in relation to psychological and behavioural matters. In the question regarding the main cause, respondents were given only three options:
a)“Some men being unable to manage their anger”
b)“The belief that men should be in charge of the relationship”
c)“Some men being under financial stress”

I suspect that all of that plays a role as well as many more. The authors’ comments on these results very strongly indicate that they think that option b) there is the only correct answer.

The authors also think that the “it’s hard to understand why women stay in a violent
relationship” is an example of trivialising violence against women. 78% agreed that it’s hard to understand this. I know I do. I’m surprised it is not 100%.

Other questions are a bit vague, quantitatively:

“A lot of times women who say they were raped led the man on and later had regrets”

Well, what is a lot? Is a hundred per year a lot? A thousand per year?

I heard that on ABC radio

Gives an insight into bogan lifestyle

1 in 5, 1 in 6

still a lot of people

Reply Quote

Date: 17/09/2014 11:11:43
From: Cymek
ID: 594962
Subject: re: VicHealth report on violence against women

Through my job I come across domestic violence offences against both men and women every day and these offenders aren’t locked up instead they are placed on community orders, they have breached these orders either due to reoffending or non-compliance. The offences aren’t at the top end of violence but they do involve physical injury and many are repeat offenders.

Should society accept a certain level of domestic violence without the offender being locked up?
If the answer is no are we willing to pay the cost possibly through increase taxes to lock them away.

Reply Quote

Date: 17/09/2014 11:16:09
From: CrazyNeutrino
ID: 594963
Subject: re: VicHealth report on violence against women

dv said:


ABC article

>>One in five Australians believe a woman is “partly responsible” for being raped if she is intoxicated, a national survey conducted by VicHealth has found. The poll of 17,500 people also found one in six people support the notion that when women say no to sex, they mean yes.

VicHealth page with links to article downloads

>>The survey tells us that we have been able to challenge a culture that allows violence against women to occur. There have been sustained improvements since 1995 in a number of areas. However, there are other areas in which progress has been minimal, along with some concerning negative findings.

——
The survey mostly takes the form of presenting statements with which the respondent either agrees/disagrees.

There certainly are some results here that I find disturbing, e.g. that as many as 4% of respondents thought that violence was acceptable if a partner tries to end a relationship. 4% were unaware that domestic violence is a criminal offence.

Other aspects of the survey raise questions for me about the methodology or reasoning.

VicHealth chief executive Jerril Rechter: “But some progress is being made. For instance, Ms Rechter said people now understand that violence includes emotional and social abuse.”
This appears to beg the question somewhat. Whether violence includes social or emotional abuse is a semantic question: certainly, I would not consider the word “violence” to include social or emotional abuse.

eg There is a question about whether various activities constitute violence. Some of them are:

Tries to control by denying partner money
Harasses by repeated emails/text messages

These are certainly unwanted behaviour, but I’d answer “no” to the question on whether they are violence. Broadening the word “violence” to include all kinds of unpleasant behaviour weakens the impact of the concept of actual violence. I realise there are counterarguments and that some people will have very good reasons for wanting a broad definition of violence but I don’t see why Rechter views an increase in the number of people answering “yes” to the question of whether these are violence as progress.

For a lot of these questions, my answer would be “I don’t know” and I would think that should be the case for most respondents. I really don’t know whether “Women with disabilities are more likely than other women to experience violence”. Sorry I don’t know everything.

I also don’t know what the “main cause” of domestic violence is. Causality in the real world is complex, especially in relation to psychological and behavioural matters. In the question regarding the main cause, respondents were given only three options:
a)“Some men being unable to manage their anger”
b)“The belief that men should be in charge of the relationship”
c)“Some men being under financial stress”

I suspect that all of that plays a role as well as many more. The authors’ comments on these results very strongly indicate that they think that option b) there is the only correct answer.

The authors also think that the “it’s hard to understand why women stay in a violent
relationship” is an example of trivialising violence against women. 78% agreed that it’s hard to understand this. I know I do. I’m surprised it is not 100%.

Other questions are a bit vague, quantitatively:

“A lot of times women who say they were raped led the man on and later had regrets”

Well, what is a lot? Is a hundred per year a lot? A thousand per year?

“A lot of times women who say they were raped led the man on and later had regrets”

Well, what is a lot? Is a hundred per year a lot? A thousand per year?

I think what it means is a lot of women say they were raped led the man on and later had regrets

Reply Quote

Date: 17/09/2014 11:16:38
From: Carmen_Sandiego
ID: 594964
Subject: re: VicHealth report on violence against women

dv said:


I also don’t know what the “main cause” of domestic violence is. Causality in the real world is complex, especially in relation to psychological and behavioural matters. In the question regarding the main cause, respondents were given only three options:
a)“Some men being unable to manage their anger”
b)“The belief that men should be in charge of the relationship”
c)“Some men being under financial stress”

What a stupid survey.

Reply Quote

Date: 17/09/2014 11:18:52
From: Carmen_Sandiego
ID: 594965
Subject: re: VicHealth report on violence against women

Q: When was the last time you beat your wife:

A: Within the last week
B: Within the last month
C: Within the last year
D: More than a year ago.

Reply Quote

Date: 17/09/2014 11:20:32
From: Cymek
ID: 594966
Subject: re: VicHealth report on violence against women

Carmen_Sandiego said:


dv said:

I also don’t know what the “main cause” of domestic violence is. Causality in the real world is complex, especially in relation to psychological and behavioural matters. In the question regarding the main cause, respondents were given only three options:
a)“Some men being unable to manage their anger”
b)“The belief that men should be in charge of the relationship”
c)“Some men being under financial stress”

What a stupid survey.

d) Alcohol and/or drug addiction

Reply Quote

Date: 17/09/2014 11:21:59
From: dv
ID: 594967
Subject: re: VicHealth report on violence against women

CrazyNeutrino said:

I think what it means is a lot of women say they were raped led the man on and later had regrets

Yeah, that’s what it means. The respondent is being asked to agree or disagree. So is “a lot” a hundred times a year? A thousand? How much the respondent thinks “a lot” is will determine whether they agree or disagree.

The question would be better asked qualitatively, either as an absolute rate or as a percentage of overall rape claims: perhaps with multiple choice brackets.

e.g.

Instead of:
“A lot of times women who say they were raped led the man on and later had regrets”

“The percentage of rape claims in which the claimant led the man on and later had regrets is greater than 5%”

or

“The number of Australian rape claims in which the claimant led the man on and later had regrets is greater than 1000 per annum”

Reply Quote

Date: 17/09/2014 11:22:59
From: CrazyNeutrino
ID: 594968
Subject: re: VicHealth report on violence against women

Cymek said:


Through my job I come across domestic violence offences against both men and women every day and these offenders aren’t locked up instead they are placed on community orders, they have breached these orders either due to reoffending or non-compliance. The offences aren’t at the top end of violence but they do involve physical injury and many are repeat offenders.

Should society accept a certain level of domestic violence without the offender being locked up?
If the answer is no are we willing to pay the cost possibly through increase taxes to lock them away.

rather than being locked up men and women should be taught through counseling to be aware of and control their emotions

and for rapists to control their bodies

The survey found most people believe violence was caused by men being unable to control their anger, while nearly half believed men committed rape because they were unable to “control their need for sex”.

again men and women need to be taught how to be aware of and to control their emotions

Im fed up with the fact that most people are not taught to be emotionally intelligent

which is simply to be aware of and to control their emotions

if people were taught this there would less violence

Reply Quote

Date: 17/09/2014 11:23:45
From: CrazyNeutrino
ID: 594969
Subject: re: VicHealth report on violence against women

Carmen_Sandiego said:


dv said:

I also don’t know what the “main cause” of domestic violence is. Causality in the real world is complex, especially in relation to psychological and behavioural matters. In the question regarding the main cause, respondents were given only three options:
a)“Some men being unable to manage their anger”
b)“The belief that men should be in charge of the relationship”
c)“Some men being under financial stress”

What a stupid survey.

It could be a better survey

How could it be improved?

Reply Quote

Date: 17/09/2014 11:25:33
From: dv
ID: 594970
Subject: re: VicHealth report on violence against women

Carmen_Sandiego said:


dv said:

I also don’t know what the “main cause” of domestic violence is. Causality in the real world is complex, especially in relation to psychological and behavioural matters. In the question regarding the main cause, respondents were given only three options:
a)“Some men being unable to manage their anger”
b)“The belief that men should be in charge of the relationship”
c)“Some men being under financial stress”

What a stupid survey.

Well most of it is better than that.

I suppose I’ve been a bit negative, only highlighting the parts that bugged me. There’s a lot of good, and to some extent disturbing, information.

Reply Quote

Date: 17/09/2014 11:26:49
From: CrazyNeutrino
ID: 594971
Subject: re: VicHealth report on violence against women

Carmen_Sandiego said:

Q: When was the last time you beat your wife:

A: Within the last week
B: Within the last month
C: Within the last year
D: More than a year ago.

Maybe they are trying to get through to simple minded people?

But not everyone in the survey would be simple minded

how does one go about conducting a survey across a wide range of people?

Reply Quote

Date: 17/09/2014 11:27:36
From: Cymek
ID: 594972
Subject: re: VicHealth report on violence against women

CrazyNeutrino said:


Cymek said:

Through my job I come across domestic violence offences against both men and women every day and these offenders aren’t locked up instead they are placed on community orders, they have breached these orders either due to reoffending or non-compliance. The offences aren’t at the top end of violence but they do involve physical injury and many are repeat offenders.

Should society accept a certain level of domestic violence without the offender being locked up?
If the answer is no are we willing to pay the cost possibly through increase taxes to lock them away.

rather than being locked up men and women should be taught through counseling to be aware of and control their emotions

and for rapists to control their bodies

The survey found most people believe violence was caused by men being unable to control their anger, while nearly half believed men committed rape because they were unable to “control their need for sex”.

again men and women need to be taught how to be aware of and to control their emotions

Im fed up with the fact that most people are not taught to be emotionally intelligent

which is simply to be aware of and to control their emotions

if people were taught this there would less violence

Something I noticed with DV in remote Aboriginal communities is the issue of jealously the men/women have been drinking together one accuses the other of infidelity and violence ensues.

Reply Quote

Date: 17/09/2014 11:28:15
From: CrazyNeutrino
ID: 594973
Subject: re: VicHealth report on violence against women

dv said:


Carmen_Sandiego said:

dv said:

I also don’t know what the “main cause” of domestic violence is. Causality in the real world is complex, especially in relation to psychological and behavioural matters. In the question regarding the main cause, respondents were given only three options:
a)“Some men being unable to manage their anger”
b)“The belief that men should be in charge of the relationship”
c)“Some men being under financial stress”

What a stupid survey.

Well most of it is better than that.

I suppose I’ve been a bit negative, only highlighting the parts that bugged me. There’s a lot of good, and to some extent disturbing, information.

It is a disturbing survey.

Reply Quote

Date: 17/09/2014 11:38:36
From: CrazyNeutrino
ID: 594974
Subject: re: VicHealth report on violence against women

Cymek said:


CrazyNeutrino said:

Cymek said:

Through my job I come across domestic violence offences against both men and women every day and these offenders aren’t locked up instead they are placed on community orders, they have breached these orders either due to reoffending or non-compliance. The offences aren’t at the top end of violence but they do involve physical injury and many are repeat offenders.

Should society accept a certain level of domestic violence without the offender being locked up?
If the answer is no are we willing to pay the cost possibly through increase taxes to lock them away.

rather than being locked up men and women should be taught through counseling to be aware of and control their emotions

and for rapists to control their bodies

The survey found most people believe violence was caused by men being unable to control their anger, while nearly half believed men committed rape because they were unable to “control their need for sex”.

again men and women need to be taught how to be aware of and to control their emotions

Im fed up with the fact that most people are not taught to be emotionally intelligent

which is simply to be aware of and to control their emotions

if people were taught this there would less violence

Something I noticed with DV in remote Aboriginal communities is the issue of jealously the men/women have been drinking together one accuses the other of infidelity and violence ensues.

Drinking alcohol lowers emotional control

the more people drink, the less emotional control they have

and its not surprising that with drinking alcohol in cases like that, that gender tension becomes the focus

Reply Quote

Date: 17/09/2014 11:46:54
From: poikilotherm
ID: 594975
Subject: re: VicHealth report on violence against women

dv said:


CrazyNeutrino said:

I think what it means is a lot of women say they were raped led the man on and later had regrets

Yeah, that’s what it means. The respondent is being asked to agree or disagree. So is “a lot” a hundred times a year? A thousand? How much the respondent thinks “a lot” is will determine whether they agree or disagree.

The question would be better asked qualitatively, either as an absolute rate or as a percentage of overall rape claims: perhaps with multiple choice brackets.

e.g.

Instead of:
“A lot of times women who say they were raped led the man on and later had regrets”

“The percentage of rape claims in which the claimant led the man on and later had regrets is greater than 5%”

or

“The number of Australian rape claims in which the claimant led the man on and later had regrets is greater than 1000 per annum”

I think half the population wouldn’t understand the replacement question options.

“Almost half of all Australians aged 15-74 years had literacy skills below level 3 (46% had prose literacy skills below level 3 and 47% had document literacy skills below this level) and more than half (53%) had numeracy skills below level 3.”

http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/Lookup/4102.0Chapter6102008

Reply Quote

Date: 17/09/2014 11:53:11
From: CrazyNeutrino
ID: 594978
Subject: re: VicHealth report on violence against women

poikilotherm said:


dv said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

I think what it means is a lot of women say they were raped led the man on and later had regrets

Yeah, that’s what it means. The respondent is being asked to agree or disagree. So is “a lot” a hundred times a year? A thousand? How much the respondent thinks “a lot” is will determine whether they agree or disagree.

The question would be better asked qualitatively, either as an absolute rate or as a percentage of overall rape claims: perhaps with multiple choice brackets.

e.g.

Instead of:
“A lot of times women who say they were raped led the man on and later had regrets”

“The percentage of rape claims in which the claimant led the man on and later had regrets is greater than 5%”

or

“The number of Australian rape claims in which the claimant led the man on and later had regrets is greater than 1000 per annum”

I think half the population wouldn’t understand the replacement question options.

“Almost half of all Australians aged 15-74 years had literacy skills below level 3 (46% had prose literacy skills below level 3 and 47% had document literacy skills below this level) and more than half (53%) had numeracy skills below level 3.”

http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/Lookup/4102.0Chapter6102008

More effort needs to be done in constructing questions so that everyone understands the questions

Reply Quote

Date: 17/09/2014 11:56:42
From: CrazyNeutrino
ID: 594980
Subject: re: VicHealth report on violence against women

Its a lot harder teaching people who do drink a lot, any gender, any culture to be aware of and to control their emotions

but if it was done, I’m sure there would be less violence

Reply Quote

Date: 17/09/2014 11:57:13
From: poikilotherm
ID: 594981
Subject: re: VicHealth report on violence against women

CrazyNeutrino said:


poikilotherm said:

dv said:

Yeah, that’s what it means. The respondent is being asked to agree or disagree. So is “a lot” a hundred times a year? A thousand? How much the respondent thinks “a lot” is will determine whether they agree or disagree.

The question would be better asked qualitatively, either as an absolute rate or as a percentage of overall rape claims: perhaps with multiple choice brackets.

e.g.

Instead of:
“A lot of times women who say they were raped led the man on and later had regrets”

“The percentage of rape claims in which the claimant led the man on and later had regrets is greater than 5%”

or

“The number of Australian rape claims in which the claimant led the man on and later had regrets is greater than 1000 per annum”

I think half the population wouldn’t understand the replacement question options.

“Almost half of all Australians aged 15-74 years had literacy skills below level 3 (46% had prose literacy skills below level 3 and 47% had document literacy skills below this level) and more than half (53%) had numeracy skills below level 3.”

http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/Lookup/4102.0Chapter6102008

More effort needs to be done in constructing questions so that everyone understands the questions

Yea…like this one:

A lot of times women who say they were raped led the man on and later had regrets

Reply Quote

Date: 17/09/2014 11:57:48
From: Divine Angel
ID: 594982
Subject: re: VicHealth report on violence against women

CrazyNeutrino said:

More effort needs to be done in constructing questions so that everyone understands the questions

IME half the population (that I come into contact with) doesn’t understand the question “What’s the difference between the choc iced cream and the choc iced custard?”

Reply Quote

Date: 17/09/2014 12:01:15
From: CrazyNeutrino
ID: 594984
Subject: re: VicHealth report on violence against women

another thing that effects peoples moods and that lead to anger and violence is poor diet

anger and violence can really get going in people who have empty stomachs

If people eat properly and have full bellies their mood tend to stay level

Reply Quote

Date: 17/09/2014 12:04:15
From: CrazyNeutrino
ID: 594986
Subject: re: VicHealth report on violence against women

poikilotherm said:


CrazyNeutrino said:

poikilotherm said:

I think half the population wouldn’t understand the replacement question options.

“Almost half of all Australians aged 15-74 years had literacy skills below level 3 (46% had prose literacy skills below level 3 and 47% had document literacy skills below this level) and more than half (53%) had numeracy skills below level 3.”

http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/Lookup/4102.0Chapter6102008

More effort needs to be done in constructing questions so that everyone understands the questions

Yea…like this one:

A lot of times women who say they were raped led the man on and later had regrets

yes, I see the problem with that one

Reply Quote

Date: 17/09/2014 12:07:06
From: CrazyNeutrino
ID: 594987
Subject: re: VicHealth report on violence against women

Divine Angel said:


CrazyNeutrino said:

More effort needs to be done in constructing questions so that everyone understands the questions

IME half the population (that I come into contact with) doesn’t understand the question “What’s the difference between the choc iced cream and the choc iced custard?”

geez

Do you show them?

or explain it some way

taste test perhaps?

Reply Quote

Date: 17/09/2014 13:13:18
From: Bubblecar
ID: 595025
Subject: re: VicHealth report on violence against women

>The authors also think that the “it’s hard to understand why women stay in a violent
relationship” is an example of trivialising violence against women. 78% agreed that it’s hard to understand this. I know I do. I’m surprised it is not 100%. <

It’s not so much a matter of trivialising violence as just not knowing much about such relationships. It seems that women (and men, for that matter) often stay in abusive relationships because they’ve grown very accustomed to that role and because of their partner’s manipulations, may even blame themselves for the abuse they receive. Leaving a violent relationship can also be very dangerous and require a lot of courage and planning. A high percentage of murdered wives were in the process of trying to leave (or had recently left) their partners.

Reply Quote

Date: 17/09/2014 13:14:58
From: wookiemeister
ID: 595027
Subject: re: VicHealth report on violence against women

Bubblecar said:


>The authors also think that the “it’s hard to understand why women stay in a violent
relationship” is an example of trivialising violence against women. 78% agreed that it’s hard to understand this. I know I do. I’m surprised it is not 100%. <

It’s not so much a matter of trivialising violence as just not knowing much about such relationships. It seems that women (and men, for that matter) often stay in abusive relationships because they’ve grown very accustomed to that role and because of their partner’s manipulations, may even blame themselves for the abuse they receive. Leaving a violent relationship can also be very dangerous and require a lot of courage and planning. A high percentage of murdered wives were in the process of trying to leave (or had recently left) their partners.


I’m notorious for manipulating and coercing by force if need be , my significant and close family

Reply Quote

Date: 17/09/2014 13:15:52
From: wookiemeister
ID: 595028
Subject: re: VicHealth report on violence against women

the other option is to enforce the law

you don’t need a statement from a woman if the skin from the man’s knuckles are on the woman

just throw the book at him just in case

Reply Quote

Date: 17/09/2014 13:17:25
From: Arts
ID: 595031
Subject: re: VicHealth report on violence against women

the trouble is violent relationships don’t start violent. It;s easy to say “well, if he hits me I’m gone” at the beginning of a relationship.. but not as easy when you have built a life/family/ finances already. As well as have systematically had everything you used to know cut off from you.

Reply Quote

Date: 17/09/2014 13:18:19
From: wookiemeister
ID: 595033
Subject: re: VicHealth report on violence against women

Arts said:


the trouble is violent relationships don’t start violent. It;s easy to say “well, if he hits me I’m gone” at the beginning of a relationship.. but not as easy when you have built a life/family/ finances already. As well as have systematically had everything you used to know cut off from you.


I don’t know about that

if the bloke is showing violence to other people that violence could easily be turned the other way too

Reply Quote

Date: 17/09/2014 13:19:29
From: Arts
ID: 595036
Subject: re: VicHealth report on violence against women

wookiemeister said:


Arts said:

the trouble is violent relationships don’t start violent. It;s easy to say “well, if he hits me I’m gone” at the beginning of a relationship.. but not as easy when you have built a life/family/ finances already. As well as have systematically had everything you used to know cut off from you.


I don’t know about that

if the bloke is showing violence to other people that violence could easily be turned the other way too

that’s not always apparent…

Reply Quote

Date: 17/09/2014 13:19:45
From: wookiemeister
ID: 595037
Subject: re: VicHealth report on violence against women

alcohol abuse

drug abuse

violent behaviour to other people

these are all clues a women should pick up on before that point

manipulative behaviour is easy to see too – if you want to see it

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Date: 17/09/2014 13:21:47
From: wookiemeister
ID: 595039
Subject: re: VicHealth report on violence against women

Arts said:


wookiemeister said:

Arts said:

the trouble is violent relationships don’t start violent. It;s easy to say “well, if he hits me I’m gone” at the beginning of a relationship.. but not as easy when you have built a life/family/ finances already. As well as have systematically had everything you used to know cut off from you.


I don’t know about that

if the bloke is showing violence to other people that violence could easily be turned the other way too

that’s not always apparent…


violent blokes seek women who can be manipulated, they know they can thrive on it

older women are a little more immune and if the woman has her own support network of friends and family domestic violence can’t exist

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Date: 17/09/2014 13:24:39
From: Arts
ID: 595043
Subject: re: VicHealth report on violence against women

wookiemeister said:

manipulative behaviour is easy to see too – if you want to see it

no it’s not. People who are manipulative and controlling aren’t idiots. IMO manipulative behaviour is more dangerous than someone who will lash out with physical violence. The reason it happens so abundantly is that they are cunning and crafty and able to show a façade to the world while distributing their special brand of control.

Sure it’s easy to see from the outside.. or in hindsight… most things are.

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Date: 17/09/2014 13:26:39
From: Arts
ID: 595045
Subject: re: VicHealth report on violence against women

wookiemeister said:


Arts said:

wookiemeister said:

I don’t know about that

if the bloke is showing violence to other people that violence could easily be turned the other way too

that’s not always apparent…


violent blokes seek women who can be manipulated, they know they can thrive on it

older women are a little more immune and if the woman has her own support network of friends and family domestic violence can’t exist

I agree that type seeks type.

networks of friends and family can be systematically destroyed .. again manipulative DV is a slow and long systematic process… the victim is often like the frog in the pot of water

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Date: 17/09/2014 13:33:17
From: wookiemeister
ID: 595050
Subject: re: VicHealth report on violence against women

Arts said:


wookiemeister said:

manipulative behaviour is easy to see too – if you want to see it

no it’s not. People who are manipulative and controlling aren’t idiots. IMO manipulative behaviour is more dangerous than someone who will lash out with physical violence. The reason it happens so abundantly is that they are cunning and crafty and able to show a façade to the world while distributing their special brand of control.

Sure it’s easy to see from the outside.. or in hindsight… most things are.


I think the manipulative side of someone does come out after a few months in a relationship, its up the other person to realise and do something

maybe they need to create a 1 hour lesson for children that encompasses things like tax returns and dealing with manipulative people

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Date: 17/09/2014 13:37:01
From: wookiemeister
ID: 595051
Subject: re: VicHealth report on violence against women

Arts said:


wookiemeister said:

Arts said:

that’s not always apparent…


violent blokes seek women who can be manipulated, they know they can thrive on it

older women are a little more immune and if the woman has her own support network of friends and family domestic violence can’t exist

I agree that type seeks type.

networks of friends and family can be systematically destroyed .. again manipulative DV is a slow and long systematic process… the victim is often like the frog in the pot of water


I’d agree there

cults work in that way

they turn you against friends and family until your only network is the religion

I’m working for a company that’s got some insanely abusive managers, someone was on the blower to me today complaining about what they are doing to her. poor bugger.

I’m hanging around just waiting for the right job, though most likely i’ll give the game away and just hand in notice when I’m ambushed sometime on the 29th September after annual leave and training

they’ll have wasted all that money on me only for me to walk because the management are arseholes – go figure

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Date: 17/09/2014 18:14:39
From: dv
ID: 595156
Subject: re: VicHealth report on violence against women

poikilotherm said:


Yea…like this one:

A lot of times women who say they were raped led the man on and later had regrets

Yep, well spotted, that is one of the problematically unclear questions that need to be fixed.

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Date: 18/09/2014 09:56:09
From: SCIENCE
ID: 595693
Subject: re: VicHealth report on violence against women

so education probably has some role somewhere

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Date: 19/09/2014 13:32:30
From: wookiemeister
ID: 596397
Subject: re: VicHealth report on violence against women

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2761136/Teenage-domestic-assault-victim-shows-horrific-scars-ex-attack.html

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