This is an excerpt from Adultery by Paulo Coelho.

“Have you noticed how humans are more frightened by spiders and snakes than by automobiles, despite the fact that deaths from automobiles are much more frequent? This occurs because our minds are still living in caveman times, when snakes and spiders were lethal.”

Is there some basis in truth for this? Are humans genetically programmed to be more afraid of these types of creatures rather than a relatively new force which, statistically, kills far more people?

So snakes and spiders are no longer lethal? The fact is the vast majority are harmless and always have been.

It’s a cultural thing.

I don’t think you’re as likely to see people who are scared of spiders in places where they are considered food.

Then there’s the whole Judeao-Christian snake demonisation for the past 4000 odd years. The majority of the western world’s problem with snakes comes from the book of Genesis.

I’m more concerned about being on the road than I am snakes or spiders, but that’s because I actually get out and about and see both regularly. I understand that they are very unlikely to cause me any harm unless I do something stupid.

Teleost said:

I’m more concerned about being on the road than I am snakes or spiders, but that’s because I actually get out and about and see both regularly. I understand that they are very unlikely to cause me any harm unless I do something stupid.

Of course snakes and spiders are still lethal, there’s just more things around that are more likely to kill you, or at least do a lot of damage.

By definition, a phobia is an irrational fear. I know the majority of spiders are harmless, doesn’t stop me running screaming from a room when I see one.

Divine Angel said:

Teleost said:

I’m more concerned about being on the road than I am snakes or spiders, but that’s because I actually get out and about and see both regularly. I understand that they are very unlikely to cause me any harm unless I do something stupid.

Of course snakes and spiders are still lethal, there’s just more things around that are more likely to kill you, or at least do a lot of damage.

By definition, a phobia is an irrational fear. I know the majority of spiders are harmless, doesn’t stop me running screaming from a room when I see one.

An irrational fear is well, irrational. It can frustrate a rational person in any attempt to unseat the stupid fear that some stupid ignorant parent allowed to develop. It is still totally irrational and otherwise we wouldn’t need psychiatrists.

the basic premise is correct IMO.. our base brains control our fear responses and they are largely driven by survival mechanisms..

Dropbear said:

the basic premise is correct IMO.. our base brains control our fear responses and they are largely driven by survival mechanisms..

no.

roughbarked said:

Dropbear said:

the basic premise is correct IMO.. our base brains control our fear responses and they are largely driven by survival mechanisms..

no.

yes

roughbarked said:

Divine Angel said:

Teleost said:

I’m more concerned about being on the road than I am snakes or spiders, but that’s because I actually get out and about and see both regularly. I understand that they are very unlikely to cause me any harm unless I do something stupid.

Of course snakes and spiders are still lethal, there’s just more things around that are more likely to kill you, or at least do a lot of damage.

By definition, a phobia is an irrational fear. I know the majority of spiders are harmless, doesn’t stop me running screaming from a room when I see one.

An irrational fear is well, irrational. It can frustrate a rational person in any attempt to unseat the stupid fear that some stupid ignorant parent allowed to develop. It is still totally irrational and otherwise we wouldn’t need psychiatrists.

theres nothing irrational about a fear of a shape that can kill you.. spiders and snakes can kill you…

roughbarked said:

Dropbear said:

the basic premise is correct IMO.. our base brains control our fear responses and they are largely driven by survival mechanisms..

no.

They are driven by the information given to you by your parents and peers or by lack of correct education at the correct times/events.

Dropbear said:

roughbarked said:

Dropbear said:

the basic premise is correct IMO.. our base brains control our fear responses and they are largely driven by survival mechanisms..

no.

yes

it is impossible.

if that was the case, everybody would be jumping sideways at every mosquito fart.

Dropbear said:

roughbarked said:

Divine Angel said:

Of course snakes and spiders are still lethal, there’s just more things around that are more likely to kill you, or at least do a lot of damage.

By definition, a phobia is an irrational fear. I know the majority of spiders are harmless, doesn’t stop me running screaming from a room when I see one.

An irrational fear is well, irrational. It can frustrate a rational person in any attempt to unseat the stupid fear that some stupid ignorant parent allowed to develop. It is still totally irrational and otherwise we wouldn’t need psychiatrists.

theres nothing irrational about a fear of a shape that can kill you.. spiders and snakes can kill you…

there is enough alertness to be aware yes but the irrational part is to carry that into the ridiculous beyond recognition point.

roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

Dropbear said:

the basic premise is correct IMO.. our base brains control our fear responses and they are largely driven by survival mechanisms..

no.

They are driven by the information given to you by your parents and peers or by lack of correct education at the correct times/events.

yes and no.. fear of heights is a good example.. most babies follow a genetically predisposed path this way.. they go through a developmental stage where they’re not afraid of heights, and the most pass into a stage where they are…

Divine Angel said:

Teleost said:

I’m more concerned about being on the road than I am snakes or spiders, but that’s because I actually get out and about and see both regularly. I understand that they are very unlikely to cause me any harm unless I do something stupid.

Of course snakes and spiders are still lethal, there’s just more things around that are more likely to kill you, or at least do a lot of damage.

By definition, a phobia is an irrational fear. I know the majority of spiders are harmless, doesn’t stop me running screaming from a room when I see one.

Yes, but your irrational fear is not genetic. It certainly does not come from a palaeolithic period where these animals were still one of the least likely to cause your ancestors pain, death or suffering.

Dropbear said:

roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

no.

They are driven by the information given to you by your parents and peers or by lack of correct education at the correct times/events.

yes and no.. fear of heights is a good example.. most babies follow a genetically predisposed path this way.. they go through a developmental stage where they’re not afraid of heights, and the most pass into a stage where they are…

Guidance is an important thing. I’ve actually been alienated from family because I told them that their father would never have allowed them to instil arachnophobia in their children had he been still alive. I know I’m correct and that their father would agree but they haven’t talked to me since.

Dropbear said:

roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

no.

They are driven by the information given to you by your parents and peers or by lack of correct education at the correct times/events.

yes and no.. fear of heights is a good example.. most babies follow a genetically predisposed path this way.. they go through a developmental stage where they’re not afraid of heights, and the most pass into a stage where they are…

Especially after they’ve had a few falls and realise that falling=stopping suddenly=pain. The experiences are important here.

roughbarked said:

Dropbear said:

roughbarked said:

They are driven by the information given to you by your parents and peers or by lack of correct education at the correct times/events.

yes and no.. fear of heights is a good example.. most babies follow a genetically predisposed path this way.. they go through a developmental stage where they’re not afraid of heights, and the most pass into a stage where they are…

Guidance is an important thing. I’ve actually been alienated from family because I told them that their father would never have allowed them to instil arachnophobia in their children had he been still alive. I know I’m correct and that their father would agree but they haven’t talked to me since.

I mean. The father wasn’t scared of anything creepy. He attached a rational explanation to everything. His daughters are the same but that the daughters now believe that their daughters should be scared of spiders because they showed initial fear, as we all would have before our parents reassured us of what were the real issues regarding each species we encountered in our upbringing.

Teleost said:

Dropbear said:

roughbarked said:

They are driven by the information given to you by your parents and peers or by lack of correct education at the correct times/events.

yes and no.. fear of heights is a good example.. most babies follow a genetically predisposed path this way.. they go through a developmental stage where they’re not afraid of heights, and the most pass into a stage where they are…

Especially after they’ve had a few falls and realise that falling=stopping suddenly=pain. The experiences are important here.

Where would we be without experience?

The most dangerous snake of all is the trouser snake.

Are young children afraid of snakes and spiders, or do their parents install that fear, being afraid themselves that they might get bitten?

Fear is usually the fear of the unknown and those with phobias in my experience have little understanding of the habits of snakes and spiders, or much knowledge of the animals themselves.

A cure for arachnophobia is to familiarise with live spiders, with the results the more familiar they become the less afraid they are of spiders.

One should have respect for these animals and treat them caution; fear on the other-hand is not respect and often causes fear and panic in the animals too.

Teleost said:

So snakes and spiders are no longer lethal? The fact is the vast majority are harmless and always have been.

It’s a cultural thing.

I don’t think you’re as likely to see people who are scared of spiders in places where they are considered food.

Then there’s the whole Judeao-Christian snake demonisation for the past 4000 odd years. The majority of the western world’s problem with snakes comes from the book of Genesis.

I’m more concerned about being on the road than I am snakes or spiders, but that’s because I actually get out and about and see both regularly. I understand that they are very unlikely to cause me any harm unless I do something stupid.

what about if a spider drops on your lap while you are driving?

roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

Dropbear said:

the basic premise is correct IMO.. our base brains control our fear responses and they are largely driven by survival mechanisms..

no.

They are driven by the information given to you by your parents and peers or by lack of correct education at the correct times/events.

so you are saying we are born without a fear of spiders and snakes and it’s driven into us?

actually there might be something in that given the amount of time we have to tell youngsters not to touch these things.

Arts said:

Teleost said:

So snakes and spiders are no longer lethal? The fact is the vast majority are harmless and always have been.

It’s a cultural thing.

I don’t think you’re as likely to see people who are scared of spiders in places where they are considered food.

Then there’s the whole Judeao-Christian snake demonisation for the past 4000 odd years. The majority of the western world’s problem with snakes comes from the book of Genesis.

I’m more concerned about being on the road than I am snakes or spiders, but that’s because I actually get out and about and see both regularly. I understand that they are very unlikely to cause me any harm unless I do something stupid.

what about if a spider drops on your lap while you are driving?

A spider likely to do that is most unlikely to harm you. So if you knew that, you might be shocked by not afraid, therefore better able to control the situation.

I’ve thought about it and I’ve decided I’m wrong and roughy is right ;) there you go

Dropbear said:

I’ve thought about it and I’ve decided I’m wrong and roughy is right ;) there you go

I arrived at a good time then .. I see.

ratty one said:

Dropbear said:

I’ve thought about it and I’ve decided I’m wrong and roughy is right ;) there you go

I arrived at a good time then .. I see.

heh! I’m always big enough to admit when I’m wrong…

may not be able to back that up..

luckilly it doesnt happen often

Arts said:

Teleost said:

So snakes and spiders are no longer lethal? The fact is the vast majority are harmless and always have been.

It’s a cultural thing.

I don’t think you’re as likely to see people who are scared of spiders in places where they are considered food.

Then there’s the whole Judeao-Christian snake demonisation for the past 4000 odd years. The majority of the western world’s problem with snakes comes from the book of Genesis.

I’m more concerned about being on the road than I am snakes or spiders, but that’s because I actually get out and about and see both regularly. I understand that they are very unlikely to cause me any harm unless I do something stupid.

what about if a spider drops on your lap while you are driving?

I don’t like that. Not one little bit.

Arts said:

Teleost said:

So snakes and spiders are no longer lethal? The fact is the vast majority are harmless and always have been.

It’s a cultural thing.

I don’t think you’re as likely to see people who are scared of spiders in places where they are considered food.

Then there’s the whole Judeao-Christian snake demonisation for the past 4000 odd years. The majority of the western world’s problem with snakes comes from the book of Genesis.

I’m more concerned about being on the road than I am snakes or spiders, but that’s because I actually get out and about and see both regularly. I understand that they are very unlikely to cause me any harm unless I do something stupid.

what about if a spider drops on your lap while you are driving?

I had a huntsman drop on my face while trying to sleep one night when it was too hot for that.

ratty one said:

Dropbear said:

I’ve thought about it and I’ve decided I’m wrong and roughy is right ;) there you go

I arrived at a good time then .. I see.

:)

the other day I saw a .gif of a spider crawling out a girls mouth… shall I post it?

>Is there some basis in truth for this? Are humans genetically programmed to be more afraid of these types of creatures rather than a relatively new force which, statistically, kills far more people?”

Humans have a rough mechanism that is receptive to the idea (gets fine tuned by experience and passed on wariness) that fanged things that give hostile signals might eat you or poison you. It allows rapid learning too watching others get torn apart or poisoned.

Similarly, humans have a rough mechanism for disgust/revulsion/repugnance that generally comes around to not eating ones own shit or others.

As for cars, well we are seduced into driving at high velocities (cars and such associated freedoms are glamorized) that of the ancestral environments would be more akin to falling off a cliff and reaching terminal velocity (2 × 110KM approaching each other is near that speed), but it may be the case humans really only intuit speeds properly to around 50km/h, which is similar to two people running fast toward each other.

transition said:

. It allows rapid learning too watching others get torn apart or poisoned.

as we say… you don’t have to outrun the threat, only the person you are with.

Arts said:

the other day I saw a .gif of a spider crawling out a girls mouth… shall I post it?

How much do you want to upset DA and Bill?

Michael V said:

Arts said:

the other day I saw a .gif of a spider crawling out a girls mouth… shall I post it?

How much do you want to upset DA and Bill?

at the moment.. neither of them. DA is full of powerful mother instinct hormones that have been known to tear apart the very fabric of time should you get them going and Bill.. well, I could probably duck under Bill and dodge him…

TOP 10 PHOBIAS

1. Arachnophobia:

The fear of spiders.
This phobia tends to affect women more than men.

2. Ophidiophobia:

The fear of snakes.
Often attributed to evolutionary causes, personal experiences, or cultural influences.

3. Acrophobia:

The fear of heights.
This fear can lead to anxiety attacks and avoidance of high places.

4. Agoraphobia:

The fear of situations in which escape is difficult.
This may include crowded areas, open spaces, or situations that are likely to trigger a panic attack. People will begin avoiding these trigger events, sometimes to the point that they cease leaving their home.
Approximately one third of people with panic disorder develop agoraphobia.

5. Cynophobia:

The fear of dogs.
This phobia is often associated with specific personal experiences, such as being bitten by a dog during childhood.

6. Astraphobia:

The fear of thunder and lightening.
Also known as Brontophobia, Tonitrophobia, or Ceraunophobia.

7. Trypanophobia:

The fear of injections.
Like many phobias, this fear often goes untreated because people avoid the triggering object and situation.

Social Phobias:

The fear of social situations.
In many cases, these phobias can become so severe that people avoid events, places, and people that are likely to trigger an anxiety attack.

9. Pteromerhanophobia:

The fear of flying.
Often treated using exposure therapy, in which the client is gradually and progressively introduced to flying.

10. Mysophobia:

The fear of germs or dirt.
May be related to obsessive-compulsive disorder.

and Phobophobia – a fear of phobias

and there are all those back through biohistory that were born that had too little caution of this or that, that didn’t live to breed or help see their offspring to breeding age.

Why did an arachnophobe start this thread?

Are you looking to cure yourself DA?

there’s a bit of selection pressure happening around here of the spider population, the shyer ones are surviving and breeding

Arts said:

Michael V said:

Arts said:

the other day I saw a .gif of a spider crawling out a girls mouth… shall I post it?

How much do you want to upset DA and Bill?

at the moment.. neither of them. DA is full of powerful mother instinct hormones that have been known to tear apart the very fabric of time should you get them going and Bill.. well, I could probably duck under Bill and dodge him…

:)

Hippopotomonstrosesquipedaliophobia – fear of long words

Luposlipaphobia – fear of being pursued by timber wolves around a kitchen table while wearing socks on a newly waxed floor

:)

I tell people I have pogonophobia.

It’s funny if you’re in the know ;)

Teleost said:

I tell people I have pogonophobia.

It’s funny if you’re in the know ;)

I’ve heard of boganophobia.

JFTR, the last know death by spider bite in Australia was 1979. It’s no coincidence that we developed the effective anti-venom for the Funnel Web in 1980.

Hope that helps.

Divine Angel said:

This is an excerpt from Adultery by Paulo Coelho.

“Have you noticed how humans are more frightened by spiders and snakes than by automobiles, despite the fact that deaths from automobiles are much more frequent? This occurs because our minds are still living in caveman times, when snakes and spiders were lethal.”

Is there some basis in truth for this? Are humans genetically programmed to be more afraid of these types of creatures rather than a relatively new force which, statistically, kills far more people?

> “Have you noticed how humans are more frightened by spiders and snakes than by automobiles, despite the fact that deaths from automobiles are much more frequent?

According to QI this is correct. Nobody has died in Australia from a spider bite in 40 years. Far more people have died as a result of losing control of an automobile on seeing a spider in the car while driving. The situation for snakes would be similar.

> This occurs because our minds are still living in caveman times, when snakes and spiders were lethal.

I have heard Freudian interpretations, in which a “big hairy” spider is sexually suggestive, as is a snake. But I think the “still living in caveman times” is more likely, several monkey species have an extremely strong reaction to seeing a snake.

Cars get you to work, get the kids to childcare/school, to the shops for food, away and around for a holiday, to social things, to a friends place, but do remember of nasty spiders and snakes that there is still potentially some illness and inconvenience, so it’s not like some healthy calibrating fear of spiders and snakes vanished or became pointless.

As of disproportionate fear of spider and snakes contrasted with that of motor vehicles, people have a healthy fear of stepping out in front of moving vehicles and don’t step out in front of them routinely. People tend to avoid crashing vehicles too.

Also, for perspective, spiders and potentially snakes in a motor vehicle can frighten the shit out of people, we always have a few, and I have to watch out for (or am aware it could happen) snakes getting from the wood I carry in the tray into the cabin.

Motor vehicles are somewhat seductive, along with the liberties of driving, they get lot’s of advertizing, they have comfortable seats, they are shiny (humans like shiny things)there’s a strong association with social status (and wealth). Speed too is glorified through sport, and on that subject is there even one sport involving something on wheels in which case more speed than is necessary and failures to establish safe (trailing) distances is not routine?

Of fear of poisonous creatures, I notice too I project that fear toward those that exhibit an apparent lack of fear, so the wariness has a potentially contagious aspect.

When I was a kid, regards snakes, we lived sixty kilometres from the nearest hospital, the roads were shit, there was possibly no antivenom available, so you know you might be 45minutes away from medical help, the car was the ambulance to get you to hospital.

And there are death adders too.

>…”….our minds are still living in caveman times…”

Not a particularly flattering way of expressing what of faculties the ancestral environments provided, given that it also resulted in the ability for algebra and more.

This Wikipedia chronological list of fatal snake bites in Australia is an eye-opener.

1) No fatal snake bites are listed for the 40 years between 1946 and 1986, but fourteen since 1986, and the incidence of fatality is increasing, with five in the past three years.
2) “Brown Snake” accounts for fully 10 of the fourteen deaths since 1986, with only 1 from whip snake, 1 from taipan and 2 from death adder.

I hadn’t even know that the whip snake was deadly, or that there had been recent deaths from brown snake. Wikipedia says “The effects of whip snakes’ (Demansia) venom on humans are relatively mild compared to that of many other Elapid snakes”. More on the fatal whip snake bite in The Age

mollwollfumble said:

Divine Angel said:

This is an excerpt from Adultery by Paulo Coelho.

“Have you noticed how humans are more frightened by spiders and snakes than by automobiles, despite the fact that deaths from automobiles are much more frequent? This occurs because our minds are still living in caveman times, when snakes and spiders were lethal.”

Is there some basis in truth for this? Are humans genetically programmed to be more afraid of these types of creatures rather than a relatively new force which, statistically, kills far more people?

> “Have you noticed how humans are more frightened by spiders and snakes than by automobiles, despite the fact that deaths from automobiles are much more frequent?

According to QI this is correct. Nobody has died in Australia from a spider bite in 40 years. Far more people have died as a result of losing control of an automobile on seeing a spider in the car while driving. The situation for snakes would be similar.

> This occurs because our minds are still living in caveman times, when snakes and spiders were lethal.

I have heard Freudian interpretations, in which a “big hairy” spider is sexually suggestive, as is a snake. But I think the “still living in caveman times” is more likely, several monkey species have an extremely strong reaction to seeing a snake.

Genetic memory?

transition said:

>…”….our minds are still living in caveman times…”

Not a particularly flattering way of expressing what of faculties the ancestral environments provided, given that it also resulted in the ability for algebra and more.

Amygdala bro…

mollwollfumble said:

This Wikipedia chronological list of fatal snake bites in Australia is an eye-opener.

1) No fatal snake bites are listed for the 40 years between 1946 and 1986, but fourteen since 1986, and the incidence of fatality is increasing, with five in the past three years.
2) “Brown Snake” accounts for fully 10 of the fourteen deaths since 1986, with only 1 from whip snake, 1 from taipan and 2 from death adder.

I hadn’t even know that the whip snake was deadly, or that there had been recent deaths from brown snake. Wikipedia says “The effects of whip snakes’ (Demansia) venom on humans are relatively mild compared to that of many other Elapid snakes”. More on the fatal whip snake bite in The Age

Not all whip snakes are classed as venomous. Those that number venomous are far fewer than the whole of the family.

transition said:

and there are all those back through biohistory that were born that had too little caution of this or that, that didn’t live to breed or help see their offspring to breeding age.

YUP…
Fear of Falling
Fear of Drowning or Suffocating
Fear of Dangerous Animals
Fear of the Dark (Unseen Dangers)
Fear of Lightening
Fear of Fire

All comes down to THE INBREED FEAR OF DYING

Some can be partially overcome by education/habituation
after all, we can swim and skydive… but we still panic
when we fall and “waterboarding” is STILL Torture!

Dropbear said:

mollwollfumble said:

Divine Angel said:

This is an excerpt from Adultery by Paulo Coelho.

“Have you noticed how humans are more frightened by spiders and snakes than by automobiles, despite the fact that deaths from automobiles are much more frequent? This occurs because our minds are still living in caveman times, when snakes and spiders were lethal.”

Is there some basis in truth for this? Are humans genetically programmed to be more afraid of these types of creatures rather than a relatively new force which, statistically, kills far more people?

> “Have you noticed how humans are more frightened by spiders and snakes than by automobiles, despite the fact that deaths from automobiles are much more frequent?

According to QI this is correct. Nobody has died in Australia from a spider bite in 40 years. Far more people have died as a result of losing control of an automobile on seeing a spider in the car while driving. The situation for snakes would be similar.

> This occurs because our minds are still living in caveman times, when snakes and spiders were lethal.

I have heard Freudian interpretations, in which a “big hairy” spider is sexually suggestive, as is a snake. But I think the “still living in caveman times” is more likely, several monkey species have an extremely strong reaction to seeing a snake.

Genetic memory?

Monkeys are on the menu of a number snakes, humans very few and unlikely to be encountered unless living in certain areas and then they are not venomous.

PermeateFree said:

Dropbear said:

mollwollfumble said:

> “Have you noticed how humans are more frightened by spiders and snakes than by automobiles, despite the fact that deaths from automobiles are much more frequent?

According to QI this is correct. Nobody has died in Australia from a spider bite in 40 years. Far more people have died as a result of losing control of an automobile on seeing a spider in the car while driving. The situation for snakes would be similar.

> This occurs because our minds are still living in caveman times, when snakes and spiders were lethal.

I have heard Freudian interpretations, in which a “big hairy” spider is sexually suggestive, as is a snake. But I think the “still living in caveman times” is more likely, several monkey species have an extremely strong reaction to seeing a snake.

Genetic memory?

Monkeys are on the menu of a number snakes, humans very few and unlikely to be encountered unless living in certain areas and then they are not venomous.

Humans certainly have no need to fear snakes because fear breeds irrationalability and if it is anything one needs to not fear things is a rational state of being.

I disagree. Humans believe all sorts of irrational things, such as superstition.

Divine Angel said:

I disagree. Humans believe all sorts of irrational things, such as superstition.

There are irrational humans yes but they are the ones who would cut off the snakes head or squash the spider.

Or they can mix superstition with “rationality” and become snake cult preachers. They’re always good for a laugh.

roughbarked said:

Divine Angel said:

I disagree. Humans believe all sorts of irrational things, such as superstition.

There are irrational humans yes but they are the ones who would cut off the snakes head or squash the spider.

Who are also more likely to get bitten in the process.

Divine Angel said:

Or they can mix superstition with “rationality” and become snake cult preachers. They’re always good for a laugh.

where’s the rationale?

i don’t like spiders and snakes…

PermeateFree said:

roughbarked said:

Divine Angel said:

I disagree. Humans believe all sorts of irrational things, such as superstition.

There are irrational humans yes but they are the ones who would cut off the snakes head or squash the spider.

Who are also more likely to get bitten in the process.

indeed.

JudgeMental said:

i don’t like spiders and snakes…

You don’t have to like them, or even try to make friends with them, but there is no need to be irrationally afraid of them either.

roughbarked said:

Divine Angel said:

Or they can mix superstition with “rationality” and become snake cult preachers. They’re always good for a laugh.

where’s the rationale?

The bible says so. You can’t argue with the bible.

…i love them.

Just kill all the spiders

who needs them

and kill all the snakes, scorpions, centipedes, tigers, lions, brown bears, alligators and crocodiles and sharks, bluebottles etc

bugger them

CrazyNeutrino said:

Just kill all the spiders

who needs them

and kill all the snakes, scorpions, centipedes, tigers, lions, brown bears, alligators and crocodiles and sharks, bluebottles etc

bugger them

do that and we will be screwed

Arts said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

Just kill all the spiders

who needs them

and kill all the snakes, scorpions, centipedes, tigers, lions, brown bears, alligators and crocodiles and sharks, bluebottles etc

bugger them

do that and we will be screwed

Ok, leave them alone then

>Humans certainly have no need to fear snakes because fear breeds irrationalability and if it is anything one needs to not fear things is a rational state of being.

Are you generalizing all fear, and mechanisms that generate all or any shade/s of fear, including that that may stimulate or in part stimulate or contribute in some way to useful cognitive activity, including fear that may tend aversions to fear, to be entirely irrational, dear Roughbarked?

Here are a couple of very fast moving Dugites (a WA Brown Snake), sunning themselves next to their holes on a large remote granite outcrop in the mallee. This rocky outcrop has hundreds of Dragon Lizards (to around 6” in length) scurrying out of your way as you walk around, they are literally everywhere, except for one portion where there was not a single one over a good 100 metre length. However, instead of lizards in this part of the rock, it had at least two Dugites. The lizards obviously knew about them and kept well away. That is what you call respect, although they probably also shed their skin when suddenly confronted by one!

PermeateFree said:

Here are a couple of very fast moving Dugites (a WA Brown Snake), sunning themselves next to their holes on a large remote granite outcrop in the mallee. This rocky outcrop has hundreds of Dragon Lizards (to around 6” in length) scurrying out of your way as you walk around, they are literally everywhere, except for one portion where there was not a single one over a good 100 metre length. However, instead of lizards in this part of the rock, it had at least two Dugites. The lizards obviously knew about them and kept well away. That is what you call respect, although they probably also shed their skin when suddenly confronted by one!

I have never met one of them in real life. Wow. Great pics. Thanks.

Some interesting articles

Mice can warn sons, grandsons of dangers via sperm

More mind-blowing animal instincts.

Speedy said:

Some interesting articles

More mind-blowing animal instincts.

Interesting article. I recently encountered that reaction when driving into town. There were a couple of Ravens on the edge of the road and being smart birds they usually fly off long before you reach them, but in this instance one didn’t and I had to move into the centre of the road to avoid it. It was a newly fledged Raven and obviously still learning. Hopefully me going past at 100 km/hr it will reinforce mum’s advice.

PermeateFree said:

Speedy said:

Some interesting articles

More mind-blowing animal instincts.

Interesting article. I recently encountered that reaction when driving into town. There were a couple of Ravens on the edge of the road and being smart birds they usually fly off long before you reach them, but in this instance one didn’t and I had to move into the centre of the road to avoid it. It was a newly fledged Raven and obviously still learning. Hopefully me going past at 100 km/hr it will reinforce mum’s advice.

Yes, I’ve noticed how street-smart they are too. I remember reading an article stating that they have the ability to judge the speed and distance of an oncoming vehicle and count down to roughly when it should arrive. Yesterday when driving back home from Jindabyne, I discussed with Mr Speedy how they must also understand lanes and the way in which cars travel within them, as they often just walk a few steps into an empty lane. The ones which get hit are probably the ones that get caught out by drivers who intentionally veer towards them or vehicles just beginning to overtake. Perhaps juveniles have not had enough “air time” to learn about traffic patterns.

PermeateFree said:

Here are a couple of very fast moving Dugites …..

They’re thumpers.

Nice work.

Speedy said:

Some interesting articles

Mice can warn sons, grandsons of dangers via sperm

More mind-blowing animal instincts.

I read the one on the mice can warn sons, and I found that fascinating. I didn’t know it also went down to grandsons though. Epigenetics is so fascinating.

But scientists found that a baby monkey raised in isolation will play with a rubber snake without fear. Hmmm… so monkeys are not born afraid of snakes.

But then put an adult monkey in with that monkey and when the adult sees the rubber snake she goes nuts. And after the adult leaves the baby monkey is reliably afraid of snakes.

…

So they decided to see whether a baby monkey could learn snake-fear via video. They showed the monkey video of an adult on the left side of the screen freaking out with a rubber snake on the right side of the screen. And fearless baby monkeys watching the video became afraid of snakes.

But here’s the mind-blowing part…

They then showed the video with different things on the right side of the screen… so that the freak-out reaction appeared to be in response to a donut, or a rubber ball, or a stuffed bear… various things… and it doesn’t work.

It only works for snaky things!

So monkeys are born with an innate mechanism to fear snaky things, in specific, but that fear has to be triggered through a process. Without the predisposition to fear something the trigger doesn’t work. Without the trigger the innate predisposition doesn’t work.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021451775-
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That is so amazing. I just love to learn things like that.