A true comrade of progressive Australia. More or less :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqMCZBjvmD4

Bubblecar said:

A true comrade of progressive Australia. More or less :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqMCZBjvmD4

There should be more politicians like him

More Barry Jones politicians too

WA Premier Colin Barnett seems to have stirred up a hornet’s nest today, saying he shouldn’t be remembered as a “great” PM., although he was modernist and reformist.

party_pants said:

WA Premier Colin Barnett seems to have stirred up a hornet’s nest today, saying he shouldn’t be remembered as a “great” PM., although he was modernist and reformist.

Barnett hasn’t achieved much. I reckon he thinks his thought bubbles are fact.

Gough had greater ideas than Fraser

Bubblecar said:

A true comrade of progressive Australia. More or less :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqMCZBjvmD4

Much less

CrazyNeutrino said:

Gough had greater ideas than Fraser

Not hard.

you starting to sound like bubblecar does on anzac day droppy. not a good look.

Dropbear said:

Bubblecar said:

A true comrade of progressive Australia. More or less :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqMCZBjvmD4

Much less

How come you’re so against Gough, Dropbear? You would have been a young child of barely kindergarten age at the time he was PM.

ChrispenEvan said:

you starting to sound like bubblecar does on anzac day droppy. not a good look.

I don’t think I’ve even mentioned Anzac Day for many a year.

party_pants said:

WA Premier Colin Barnett seems to have stirred up a hornet’s nest today, saying he shouldn’t be remembered as a “great” PM., although he was modernist and reformist.

Gough was as great as the European PMs who lead their countries to their respective sovereign debt crisis.

If Gough was good at something it was spending money that he didn’t have

ChrispenEvan said:

you starting to sound like bubblecar does on anzac day droppy. not a good look.

Nah its healthy to let people know that along the idolising and hero worship, there is an alternate view

you’ve been good the last couple of years bubblecar.

:-)

party_pants said:

Dropbear said:

Bubblecar said:

A true comrade of progressive Australia. More or less :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqMCZBjvmD4

Much less

How come you’re so against Gough, Dropbear? You would have been a young child of barely kindergarten age at the time he was PM.

Because his ideology was manifestly unaffordable, yet he’s worshiped for it.

It doesnt make sense to me.

Dropbear said:

party_pants said:

WA Premier Colin Barnett seems to have stirred up a hornet’s nest today, saying he shouldn’t be remembered as a “great” PM., although he was modernist and reformist.

Gough was as great as the European PMs who lead their countries to their respective sovereign debt crisis.

If Gough was good at something it was spending money that he didn’t have

Don’t all PM’s and parties in power do the same

Cymek said:

Dropbear said:

party_pants said:

WA Premier Colin Barnett seems to have stirred up a hornet’s nest today, saying he shouldn’t be remembered as a “great” PM., although he was modernist and reformist.

Gough was as great as the European PMs who lead their countries to their respective sovereign debt crisis.

If Gough was good at something it was spending money that he didn’t have

Don’t all PM’s and parties in power do the same

Every PM since, including the ALP ones have had the Unpopular task of winding back the Whitman excess

Don’t all PM’s and parties in power do the same

nah the Libs are absolutely wonderful economic managers.

And Boris, taking an over-hyped pompous arse PM to task is very different than insulting fallen soldiers ..

Dropbear said:

Cymek said:

Dropbear said:

Gough was as great as the European PMs who lead their countries to their respective sovereign debt crisis.

If Gough was good at something it was spending money that he didn’t have

Don’t all PM’s and parties in power do the same

Every PM since, including the ALP ones have had the Unpopular task of winding back the Whitman excess

Some have wound it back in parts, some have added to it substainially.

Dropbear said:

party_pants said:

Dropbear said:

Much less

How come you’re so against Gough, Dropbear? You would have been a young child of barely kindergarten age at the time he was PM.

Because his ideology was manifestly unaffordable, yet he’s worshiped for it.

It doesnt make sense to me.

Most Whitlam reforms are now the bread and butter of the federal budget. You might disagree with medicare and other social programs but that is an ideological argument not an economic one.

Dropbear said:

Every PM since, including the ALP ones have had the Unpopular task of winding back the Whitman excess

This isn’t true.

Witty Rejoinder said:

Dropbear said:

party_pants said:

How come you’re so against Gough, Dropbear? You would have been a young child of barely kindergarten age at the time he was PM.

Because his ideology was manifestly unaffordable, yet he’s worshiped for it.

It doesnt make sense to me.

Most Whitlam reforms are now the bread and butter of the federal budget. You might disagree with medicare and other social programs but that is an ideological argument not an economic one.

We’be had user pays tertiary education (as we should have) since the late 80s

Dropbear said:

We’be had user pays tertiary education (as we should have) since the late 80s

Most university funding still comes out of the budget, not HECS payments.

Witty Rejoinder said:

Dropbear said:

Every PM since, including the ALP ones have had the Unpopular task of winding back the Whitman excess

This isn’t true.

Sure it is

Witty Rejoinder said:

Dropbear said:

We’be had user pays tertiary education (as we should have) since the late 80s

Most university funding still comes out of the budget, not HECS payments.

Not for long

party_pants said:

Dropbear said:

Cymek said:

Don’t all PM’s and parties in power do the same

Every PM since, including the ALP ones have had the Unpopular task of winding back the Whitman excess

Some have wound it back in parts, some have added to it substainially.

Indeed. The PBS Is unfortunately a fabulously idea and increasingly unaffordable

Dropbear said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Dropbear said:

We’be had user pays tertiary education (as we should have) since the late 80s

Most university funding still comes out of the budget, not HECS payments.

Not for long

America here we come.

Dropbear said:

party_pants said:

Dropbear said:

Every PM since, including the ALP ones have had the Unpopular task of winding back the Whitman excess

Some have wound it back in parts, some have added to it substainially.

Indeed. The PBS Is unfortunately a fabulously idea and increasingly unaffordable

Lol. The real problem is budget is much more modern in origin. It’s too much middle-class welfare and too many tax rorts for middle/higher income earners. A genuine attempt to fix the collection side of the Federal revenue would provide ample funds to cover for the growth in the PBS and health funding etc. This is not a problem that Gough introduced 40 years ago.

party_pants said:

Dropbear said:

party_pants said:

Some have wound it back in parts, some have added to it substainially.

Indeed. The PBS Is unfortunately a fabulously idea and increasingly unaffordable

Lol. The real problem is budget is much more modern in origin. It’s too much middle-class welfare and too many tax rorts for middle/higher income earners. A genuine attempt to fix the collection side of the Federal revenue would provide ample funds to cover for the growth in the PBS and health funding etc. This is not a problem that Gough introduced 40 years ago.

Largely that’s true. Good luck dismantling negative gearing though

Ooops – that was rather poorly worded.

party_pants said:

Dropbear said:

party_pants said:

Some have wound it back in parts, some have added to it substainially.

Indeed. The PBS Is unfortunately a fabulously idea and increasingly unaffordable

Lol. The real problem is budget is much more modern in origin. It’s too much middle-class welfare and too many tax rorts for middle/higher income earners. A genuine attempt to fix the collection side of the Federal revenue would provide ample funds to cover for the growth in the PBS and health funding etc. This is not a problem that Gough introduced 40 years ago.

500 billion dollars debt doesn’t just happen on its own ya know

its going to get worse until everyone is paying tax

if everyone was paying tax then it would mean tax would go down for most people

its why I say tax money transfers

the money transfer would automatically be able to tax immediately ALL internet sales

wookiemeister said:

party_pants said:

Dropbear said:

Indeed. The PBS Is unfortunately a fabulously idea and increasingly unaffordable

Lol. The real problem is budget is much more modern in origin. It’s too much middle-class welfare and too many tax rorts for middle/higher income earners. A genuine attempt to fix the collection side of the Federal revenue would provide ample funds to cover for the growth in the PBS and health funding etc. This is not a problem that Gough introduced 40 years ago.

500 billion dollars debt doesn’t just happen on its own ya know

its going to get worse until everyone is paying tax

if everyone was paying tax then it would mean tax would go down for most people

its why I say tax money transfers

the money transfer would automatically be able to tax immediately ALL internet sales

wookie…did you know deposits create debt?

Shouldn’t government provide affordable education, medical, water, electricity and other amenities to its population otherwise what’s the point of them. If people struggle to afford the basic necessities of life how can they contribute to the betterment of the country.

poikilotherm said:

wookiemeister said:

party_pants said:

Lol. The real problem is budget is much more modern in origin. It’s too much middle-class welfare and too many tax rorts for middle/higher income earners. A genuine attempt to fix the collection side of the Federal revenue would provide ample funds to cover for the growth in the PBS and health funding etc. This is not a problem that Gough introduced 40 years ago.

500 billion dollars debt doesn’t just happen on its own ya know

its going to get worse until everyone is paying tax

if everyone was paying tax then it would mean tax would go down for most people

its why I say tax money transfers

the money transfer would automatically be able to tax immediately ALL internet sales

wookie…did you know deposits create debt?

yes because in theory that deposit if its earning interest means that it has to be loaned out – in reality 99.999 percent of all money is created as a loan , its got nothing to do with grannies money in her bank account

onya dog

wookiemeister said:

party_pants said:

Dropbear said:

Indeed. The PBS Is unfortunately a fabulously idea and increasingly unaffordable

Lol. The real problem is budget is much more modern in origin. It’s too much middle-class welfare and too many tax rorts for middle/higher income earners. A genuine attempt to fix the collection side of the Federal revenue would provide ample funds to cover for the growth in the PBS and health funding etc. This is not a problem that Gough introduced 40 years ago.

500 billion dollars debt doesn’t just happen on its own ya know

its going to get worse until everyone is paying tax

if everyone was paying tax then it would mean tax would go down for most people

its why I say tax money transfers

the money transfer would automatically be able to tax immediately ALL internet sales

I’d be interested to know how much of that debt is from wasted government projects and mismanagement.

wookiemeister said:

party_pants said:

Dropbear said:

Indeed. The PBS Is unfortunately a fabulously idea and increasingly unaffordable

Lol. The real problem is budget is much more modern in origin. It’s too much middle-class welfare and too many tax rorts for middle/higher income earners. A genuine attempt to fix the collection side of the Federal revenue would provide ample funds to cover for the growth in the PBS and health funding etc. This is not a problem that Gough introduced 40 years ago.

500 billion dollars debt doesn’t just happen on its own ya know

its going to get worse until everyone is paying tax

if everyone was paying tax then it would mean tax would go down for most people

its why I say tax money transfers

the money transfer would automatically be able to tax immediately ALL internet sales

Your intervention isn’t helping here.

everythings boned now – don’t fight it

Australia is marching down the path of feudalism

the middle class want some action of taking over completely – then they fight with each other and drive each other into destruction then an emperor is crowned

tony abbotts daughter got that 60,000 dollars scholarship – money talks volumes

abbott is commanding trillions of dollars, you get to the top you because as corrupt as you like

Cymek said:

wookiemeister said:

party_pants said:

Lol. The real problem is budget is much more modern in origin. It’s too much middle-class welfare and too many tax rorts for middle/higher income earners. A genuine attempt to fix the collection side of the Federal revenue would provide ample funds to cover for the growth in the PBS and health funding etc. This is not a problem that Gough introduced 40 years ago.

500 billion dollars debt doesn’t just happen on its own ya know

its going to get worse until everyone is paying tax

if everyone was paying tax then it would mean tax would go down for most people

its why I say tax money transfers

the money transfer would automatically be able to tax immediately ALL internet sales

I’d be interested to know how much of that debt is from wasted government projects and mismanagement.

most of it

Cymek said:

wookiemeister said:

party_pants said:

Lol. The real problem is budget is much more modern in origin. It’s too much middle-class welfare and too many tax rorts for middle/higher income earners. A genuine attempt to fix the collection side of the Federal revenue would provide ample funds to cover for the growth in the PBS and health funding etc. This is not a problem that Gough introduced 40 years ago.

500 billion dollars debt doesn’t just happen on its own ya know

its going to get worse until everyone is paying tax

if everyone was paying tax then it would mean tax would go down for most people

its why I say tax money transfers

the money transfer would automatically be able to tax immediately ALL internet sales

I’d be interested to know how much of that debt is from wasted government projects and mismanagement.

All those pot plants…

ok lets start again

the function of government is

1 : to create unemployment

2 : to take money away from people

3 : to make sure 1 and 2 are in force

4 : a government must always be in serious debt

now then, considering I have been saying this for years now, can any one rebut that when you look at the present situation?

wookiemeister said:

ok lets start again

the function of government is

1 : to create unemployment

2 : to take money away from people

3 : to make sure 1 and 2 are in force

4 : a government must always be in serious debt

now then, considering I have been saying this for years now, can any one rebut that when you look at the present situation?

the government is sacking thousands of jobs

it is trying to raise taxes – remember hockeys threat to find other means to raise taxes ?

the government is in serious debt – well according to the LNP , labor will tell you its completely normal

we are buying billions of fighter jets that are unproven whilst everything is going to pot

wookiemeister said:

ok lets start again

the function of government is

1 : to create unemployment

2 : to take money away from people

3 : to make sure 1 and 2 are in force

4 : a government must always be in serious debt

now then, considering I have been saying this for years now, can any one rebut that when you look at the present situation?

Oh Wookie. You so crazee!

Witty Rejoinder said:

wookiemeister said:

ok lets start again

the function of government is

1 : to create unemployment

2 : to take money away from people

3 : to make sure 1 and 2 are in force

4 : a government must always be in serious debt

now then, considering I have been saying this for years now, can any one rebut that when you look at the present situation?

Oh Wookie. You so crazee!

I’ve not been wrong have I

I was telling you about government debt for years , here and on SSSF

wookiemeister said:

wookiemeister said:

ok lets start again

the function of government is

1 : to create unemployment

2 : to take money away from people

3 : to make sure 1 and 2 are in force

4 : a government must always be in serious debt

now then, considering I have been saying this for years now, can any one rebut that when you look at the present situation?

the government is sacking thousands of jobs

it is trying to raise taxes – remember hockeys threat to find other means to raise taxes ?

the government is in serious debt – well according to the LNP , labor will tell you its completely normal

we are buying billions of fighter jets that are unproven whilst everything is going to pot

Working for the government I do have to say their are lots of unneeded jobs, we have a sub division of our office with people getting $90,000 a year each minimum and some days they have no work to do at all and one guy watches movies.. They won’t get rid of the jobs even though they are a complete waste of money.

wookiemeister said:

I’ve not been wrong have I

I was telling you about government debt for years , here and on SSSF

Your crazy theories have indeed been noted. So has your poor understanding of anything concerned with economic management and government.

Dropbear said:

party_pants said:

Dropbear said:

Much less

How come you’re so against Gough, Dropbear? You would have been a young child of barely kindergarten age at the time he was PM.

Because his ideology was manifestly unaffordable, yet he’s worshiped for it.

It doesnt make sense to me.

well with education

there is a lot of duplication

he could have changed that

Cymek said:

Dropbear said:

party_pants said:

WA Premier Colin Barnett seems to have stirred up a hornet’s nest today, saying he shouldn’t be remembered as a “great” PM., although he was modernist and reformist.

Gough was as great as the European PMs who lead their countries to their respective sovereign debt crisis.

If Gough was good at something it was spending money that he didn’t have

Don’t all PM’s and parties in power do the same

Yes

ChrispenEvan said:

Don’t all PM’s and parties in power do the same

nah the Libs are absolutely wonderful economic managers.

yeah they sell stuff that all Australians own to people who can afford to buy shares

criminal, I reckon

Dropbear said:

party_pants said:

Dropbear said:

Every PM since, including the ALP ones have had the Unpopular task of winding back the Whitman excess

Some have wound it back in parts, some have added to it substainially.

Indeed. The PBS Is unfortunately a fabulously idea and increasingly unaffordable

What about overpaid CEO’s?

I reckon they are unaffordable

or just ripping people off

Cymek said:

Shouldn’t government provide affordable education, medical, water, electricity and other amenities to its population otherwise what’s the point of them. If people struggle to afford the basic necessities of life how can they contribute to the betterment of the country.

Governments can’t consistently and continuely spend more than they make.

Why provide free tertiary education without there being any requirement to pay that investment back, for example.

CrazyNeutrino said:

Dropbear said:

party_pants said:

Some have wound it back in parts, some have added to it substainially.

Indeed. The PBS Is unfortunately a fabulously idea and increasingly unaffordable

What about overpaid CEO’s?

I reckon they are unaffordable

or just ripping people off

So you suggest abandoning the market economy and going full retard communism then?

Dropbear said:

Cymek said:

Shouldn’t government provide affordable education, medical, water, electricity and other amenities to its population otherwise what’s the point of them. If people struggle to afford the basic necessities of life how can they contribute to the betterment of the country.

Governments can’t consistently and continuely spend more than they make.

Why provide free tertiary education without there being any requirement to pay that investment back, for example.

Affordable not free, it does seem government look for the politically weakest to get money from when they should be going after the big boys that hide money but still cry poor

Cymek said:

wookiemeister said:

party_pants said:

Lol. The real problem is budget is much more modern in origin. It’s too much middle-class welfare and too many tax rorts for middle/higher income earners. A genuine attempt to fix the collection side of the Federal revenue would provide ample funds to cover for the growth in the PBS and health funding etc. This is not a problem that Gough introduced 40 years ago.

500 billion dollars debt doesn’t just happen on its own ya know

its going to get worse until everyone is paying tax

if everyone was paying tax then it would mean tax would go down for most people

its why I say tax money transfers

the money transfer would automatically be able to tax immediately ALL internet sales

I’d be interested to know how much of that debt is from wasted government projects and mismanagement.

Look at America’s Debt

Farewell Gough, which can be shortened to Fargough.

Dropbear said:

Cymek said:

Shouldn’t government provide affordable education, medical, water, electricity and other amenities to its population otherwise what’s the point of them. If people struggle to afford the basic necessities of life how can they contribute to the betterment of the country.

Governments can’t consistently and continuely spend more than they make.

Why provide free tertiary education without there being any requirement to pay that investment back, for example.

Because the graduates will get high tax rate jobs.

CrazyNeutrino said:

Dropbear said:

party_pants said:

Some have wound it back in parts, some have added to it substainially.

Indeed. The PBS Is unfortunately a fabulously idea and increasingly unaffordable

What about overpaid CEO’s?

I reckon they are unaffordable

or just ripping people off

It’s not a problem per se that they are overpaid, the problem is that they are salary sacrificing 100% of their income in superannuation contributions to avoid income tax.

Cymek said:

Dropbear said:

Cymek said:

Shouldn’t government provide affordable education, medical, water, electricity and other amenities to its population otherwise what’s the point of them. If people struggle to afford the basic necessities of life how can they contribute to the betterment of the country.

Governments can’t consistently and continuely spend more than they make.

Why provide free tertiary education without there being any requirement to pay that investment back, for example.

Affordable not free, it does seem government look for the politically weakest to get money from when they should be going after the big boys that hide money but still cry poor

Yes, we shouldn’t have tax breaks for the wealthy or a system that allows corporations to off-shore profits to tax havens. What do you propose we do about that?

wookiemeister said:

everythings boned now – don’t fight it

Australia is marching down the path of feudalism

the middle class want some action of taking over completely – then they fight with each other and drive each other into destruction then an emperor is crowned

tony abbotts daughter got that 60,000 dollars scholarship – money talks volumes

abbott is commanding trillions of dollars, you get to the top you because as corrupt as you like

Yeah and Tony Abbott believes in a God that does not exist

Woo Hooo

fairies montsers angles heaven hell and bullshit

Tamb said:

Dropbear said:

Cymek said:

Shouldn’t government provide affordable education, medical, water, electricity and other amenities to its population otherwise what’s the point of them. If people struggle to afford the basic necessities of life how can they contribute to the betterment of the country.

Governments can’t consistently and continuely spend more than they make.

Why provide free tertiary education without there being any requirement to pay that investment back, for example.

Because the graduates will get high tax rate jobs.

And if they move OS?

poikilotherm said:

Cymek said:

wookiemeister said:

500 billion dollars debt doesn’t just happen on its own ya know

its going to get worse until everyone is paying tax

if everyone was paying tax then it would mean tax would go down for most people

its why I say tax money transfers

the money transfer would automatically be able to tax immediately ALL internet sales

I’d be interested to know how much of that debt is from wasted government projects and mismanagement.

All those pot plants…

MINE

ALL OF THEM

bob(from black rock) said:

Farewell Gough, which can be shortened to Fargough.

Frazer shortened it to Wellgo.

Tamb said:

Dropbear said:

Cymek said:

Shouldn’t government provide affordable education, medical, water, electricity and other amenities to its population otherwise what’s the point of them. If people struggle to afford the basic necessities of life how can they contribute to the betterment of the country.

Governments can’t consistently and continuely spend more than they make.

Why provide free tertiary education without there being any requirement to pay that investment back, for example.

Because the graduates will get high tax rate jobs.

There aren’t any high tax rates, at least, not compared to when I was young :)

Anyway I’ll leave you to your lectures on wookienomics

Dropbear said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

Dropbear said:

Indeed. The PBS Is unfortunately a fabulously idea and increasingly unaffordable

What about overpaid CEO’s?

I reckon they are unaffordable

or just ripping people off

So you suggest abandoning the market economy and going full retard communism then?

Whats wrong with half

Dropbear said:

Cymek said:

Dropbear said:

Governments can’t consistently and continuely spend more than they make.

Why provide free tertiary education without there being any requirement to pay that investment back, for example.

Affordable not free, it does seem government look for the politically weakest to get money from when they should be going after the big boys that hide money but still cry poor

Yes, we shouldn’t have tax breaks for the wealthy or a system that allows corporations to off-shore profits to tax havens. What do you propose we do about that?

I am not sure if you are being sarcastic or not but change it so they pay the fair amount of tax, but that will never happen as government has vested interests to maintain the status quo

party_pants said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

Dropbear said:

Indeed. The PBS Is unfortunately a fabulously idea and increasingly unaffordable

What about overpaid CEO’s?

I reckon they are unaffordable

or just ripping people off

It’s not a problem per se that they are overpaid, the problem is that they are salary sacrificing 100% of their income in superannuation contributions to avoid income tax.

we need to change superannuation laws

CrazyNeutrino said:

Dropbear said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

What about overpaid CEO’s?

I reckon they are unaffordable

or just ripping people off

So you suggest abandoning the market economy and going full retard communism then?

Whats wrong with half

Communism doesn’t work. Other than that it’s a great idea

Dropbear said:

Cymek said:

Shouldn’t government provide affordable education, medical, water, electricity and other amenities to its population otherwise what’s the point of them. If people struggle to afford the basic necessities of life how can they contribute to the betterment of the country.

Governments can’t consistently and continuely spend more than they make.

Why provide free tertiary education without there being any requirement to pay that investment back, for example.

It’s also an investment in the country. If our country’s future is in high tech & high skilled industries then we need to have an educated labour force to match. Otherwise where will we get the people from to do these jobs? Seems a bit of classic conservative short-sightedness to cut funding to the very things that we need for our future prosperity, things that even blind Freddy can see.

Dropbear said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

Dropbear said:

So you suggest abandoning the market economy and going full retard communism then?

Whats wrong with half

Communism doesn’t work. Other than that it’s a great idea

No human nature goes against it.

Cymek said:

Dropbear said:

Cymek said:

Affordable not free, it does seem government look for the politically weakest to get money from when they should be going after the big boys that hide money but still cry poor

Yes, we shouldn’t have tax breaks for the wealthy or a system that allows corporations to off-shore profits to tax havens. What do you propose we do about that?

I am not sure if you are being sarcastic or not but change it so they pay the fair amount of tax, but that will never happen as government has vested interests to maintain the status quo

I’m asking how you effect real actual change? Not wistfully debate the way we’d like it up be. How do you propose to get elected against a hostile media on a tax-the-rich ticket?

party_pants said:

Dropbear said:

Cymek said:

Shouldn’t government provide affordable education, medical, water, electricity and other amenities to its population otherwise what’s the point of them. If people struggle to afford the basic necessities of life how can they contribute to the betterment of the country.

Governments can’t consistently and continuely spend more than they make.

Why provide free tertiary education without there being any requirement to pay that investment back, for example.

It’s also an investment in the country. If our country’s future is in high tech & high skilled industries then we need to have an educated labour force to match. Otherwise where will we get the people from to do these jobs? Seems a bit of classic conservative short-sightedness to cut funding to the very things that we need for our future prosperity, things that even blind Freddy can see.

I agree you’d think they’d see it like that but they seem to see tertiary students as a cash cow.

Dropbear said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

Dropbear said:

So you suggest abandoning the market economy and going full retard communism then?

Whats wrong with half

Communism doesn’t work. Other than that it’s a great idea

Anti gravity machines are a great idea too, haven’t got one of those either.

Spectrum – I’ll Be Gone (1971)

party_pants said:

Dropbear said:

Cymek said:

Shouldn’t government provide affordable education, medical, water, electricity and other amenities to its population otherwise what’s the point of them. If people struggle to afford the basic necessities of life how can they contribute to the betterment of the country.

Governments can’t consistently and continuely spend more than they make.

Why provide free tertiary education without there being any requirement to pay that investment back, for example.

It’s also an investment in the country. If our country’s future is in high tech & high skilled industries then we need to have an educated labour force to match. Otherwise where will we get the people from to do these jobs? Seems a bit of classic conservative short-sightedness to cut funding to the very things that we need for our future prosperity, things that even blind Freddy can see.

Sure, but kumbaya doesn’t pay for it. How do you completely change the tax system when an ALP government completely ignored the Henry tax review?

Dropbear said:

Cymek said:

Dropbear said:

Yes, we shouldn’t have tax breaks for the wealthy or a system that allows corporations to off-shore profits to tax havens. What do you propose we do about that?

I am not sure if you are being sarcastic or not but change it so they pay the fair amount of tax, but that will never happen as government has vested interests to maintain the status quo

I’m asking how you effect real actual change? Not wistfully debate the way we’d like it up be. How do you propose to get elected against a hostile media on a tax-the-rich ticket?

No idea and yes its unrealistic as it would never get implemented as government (no matter who they are) wants to maintain the status quo plus big business has more power than most government anyway

Dropbear said:

Cymek said:

Dropbear said:

Yes, we shouldn’t have tax breaks for the wealthy or a system that allows corporations to off-shore profits to tax havens. What do you propose we do about that?

I am not sure if you are being sarcastic or not but change it so they pay the fair amount of tax, but that will never happen as government has vested interests to maintain the status quo

I’m asking how you effect real actual change? Not wistfully debate the way we’d like it up be. How do you propose to get elected against a hostile media on a tax-the-rich ticket?

Well first of all in the runup, you tell them there will be no tax changes and no nasty surprises….wait..waht

Dropbear said:

party_pants said:

Dropbear said:

Governments can’t consistently and continuely spend more than they make.

Why provide free tertiary education without there being any requirement to pay that investment back, for example.

It’s also an investment in the country. If our country’s future is in high tech & high skilled industries then we need to have an educated labour force to match. Otherwise where will we get the people from to do these jobs? Seems a bit of classic conservative short-sightedness to cut funding to the very things that we need for our future prosperity, things that even blind Freddy can see.

Sure, but kumbaya doesn’t pay for it. How do you completely change the tax system when an ALP government completely ignored the Henry tax review?

Wait, how many tax legislation changes regarding the Henry review have the LibNuts done?

jjjust moi said:

Dropbear said:

Cymek said:

I am not sure if you are being sarcastic or not but change it so they pay the fair amount of tax, but that will never happen as government has vested interests to maintain the status quo

I’m asking how you effect real actual change? Not wistfully debate the way we’d like it up be. How do you propose to get elected against a hostile media on a tax-the-rich ticket?

Well first of all in the runup, you tell them there will be no tax changes and no nasty surprises….wait..waht

Lol ;) heh I like it

poikilotherm said:

Dropbear said:

party_pants said:

It’s also an investment in the country. If our country’s future is in high tech & high skilled industries then we need to have an educated labour force to match. Otherwise where will we get the people from to do these jobs? Seems a bit of classic conservative short-sightedness to cut funding to the very things that we need for our future prosperity, things that even blind Freddy can see.

Sure, but kumbaya doesn’t pay for it. How do you completely change the tax system when an ALP government completely ignored the Henry tax review?

Wait, how many tax legislation changes regarding the Henry review have the LibNuts done?

You obviously miss my point.

Dropbear said:

poikilotherm said:

Dropbear said:

Sure, but kumbaya doesn’t pay for it. How do you completely change the tax system when an ALP government completely ignored the Henry tax review?

Wait, how many tax legislation changes regarding the Henry review have the LibNuts done?

You obviously miss my point.

That’s the go with this thread innit?

party_pants said:

Dropbear said:

Cymek said:

Shouldn’t government provide affordable education, medical, water, electricity and other amenities to its population otherwise what’s the point of them. If people struggle to afford the basic necessities of life how can they contribute to the betterment of the country.

Governments can’t consistently and continuely spend more than they make.

Why provide free tertiary education without there being any requirement to pay that investment back, for example.

It’s also an investment in the country. If our country’s future is in high tech & high skilled industries then we need to have an educated labour force to match. Otherwise where will we get the people from to do these jobs? Seems a bit of classic conservative short-sightedness to cut funding to the very things that we need for our future prosperity, things that even blind Freddy can see.

you can import these people

shut the universities down we can import all the people we need, there are a million university graduates we could import in from china right now, why should we have any kind of education system?

we don’t need to educate anyone

Dropbear said:

party_pants said:

Dropbear said:

Governments can’t consistently and continuely spend more than they make.

Why provide free tertiary education without there being any requirement to pay that investment back, for example.

It’s also an investment in the country. If our country’s future is in high tech & high skilled industries then we need to have an educated labour force to match. Otherwise where will we get the people from to do these jobs? Seems a bit of classic conservative short-sightedness to cut funding to the very things that we need for our future prosperity, things that even blind Freddy can see.

Sure, but kumbaya doesn’t pay for it. How do you completely change the tax system when an ALP government completely ignored the Henry tax review?

I’m not convinced the current HECS/HELP system was so broken it needed total deregulation in fees and a shift to bond rates of interest to fix it.

SEWAGE TO THE SUBURBS

Whitlam is remembered for his big thinking but part of his legacy is at the most local level – the backyard dunnie and the septic tank.

As the member for Werriwa, based around the then new-built but largely unsewered suburb of Cabramatta, Whitlam had a grasp of what was needed in the battler belt.

His government set a goal to leave no urban home unsewered. The Whitlam government gave grants directly to local government units for urban renewal, flood prevention, and the promotion of tourism.

Federal grants financed highways linking the state capitals.

http://m.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/what-did-gough-whitlam-actually-do-rather-a-lot-20141021-11977w.html

Hmmmmm.

;-)

shut the universities down, we don’t need them

As for the Henry review – much of it needs Constitutional reform to implement fully.

Rose coloured glasses can be fun but at that time Gough failed the election test so labor must have stuffed up big time,not even a sympathy swing.

it will be funny when the elite and the middle class scream because they’ll have to pay through the nose and only have to compete with a million uni graduates from china

it will be a nice taste of medicine

party_pants said:

Dropbear said:

party_pants said:

It’s also an investment in the country. If our country’s future is in high tech & high skilled industries then we need to have an educated labour force to match. Otherwise where will we get the people from to do these jobs? Seems a bit of classic conservative short-sightedness to cut funding to the very things that we need for our future prosperity, things that even blind Freddy can see.

Sure, but kumbaya doesn’t pay for it. How do you completely change the tax system when an ALP government completely ignored the Henry tax review?

I’m not convinced the current HECS/HELP system was so broken it needed total deregulation in fees and a shift to bond rates of interest to fix it.

Me neither.. But I don’t think you need to be a fan of Communism to disagree with just about everything the current clowns are doing.

so basically he was a loser and did fuck all for australia? is that the gist?

party_pants said:

As for the Henry review – much of it needs Constitutional reform to implement fully.

Shit hey, that stuff is hard

Anyway, there’s not likely to be another Oz prime minister who gives much of a fuck about anything except keeping onside with the right-wing press and pursuing the most conservative agenda, so all this bickering is a bit academic.

Let’s just use this thread to remember a moment of youthfulness & optimism :)

I’d say with some competition in the graduate sector you’ll see the status quo in Australia tumble

unless you are stock piling a vault with gold and a few million to spare you won’t be able to send your kid to uni

even if your kids get a degree they can work for 10 bucks an hour, why? because university graduates will be available like water and be exposed to the same hire and fire as the rest of society

Bubblecar said:

Anyway, there’s not likely to be another Oz prime minister who gives much of a fuck about anything except keeping onside with the right-wing press and pursuing the most conservative agenda, so all this bickering is a bit academic.

Let’s just use this thread to remember a moment of youthfulness & optimism :)

Sad but true

Bubblecar said:

Anyway, there’s not likely to be another Oz prime minister who gives much of a fuck about anything except keeping onside with the right-wing press and pursuing the most conservative agenda, so all this bickering is a bit academic.

Let’s just use this thread to remember a moment of youthfulness & optimism :)

tell it the youth that don’t have a job or are working for peanuts

ChrispenEvan said:

so basically he was a loser and did fuck all for australia? is that the gist?

Nope. I’m saying the hysterical hero worship is unwarranted.

I see his legacy similar to what would have happened if the greens of the 90s ever accidently found themselves in power.
Lots of good ideas with no foundation in reality.

Lots of willingness to spend money that wasn’t his, on his own ideology

Dropbear said:

party_pants said:

Dropbear said:

Sure, but kumbaya doesn’t pay for it. How do you completely change the tax system when an ALP government completely ignored the Henry tax review?

I’m not convinced the current HECS/HELP system was so broken it needed total deregulation in fees and a shift to bond rates of interest to fix it.

Me neither.. But I don’t think you need to be a fan of Communism to disagree with just about everything the current clowns are doing.

So what’s your point then? Gough went a bit too far with completely free education, but it got fixed up 25 years ago under Keating to something that by-and-large worked.

Why not combine capitalism with communism?

In all reality Australia is always going to be the first world nations underdog, we can’t ever compete with nations whose economies are many times larger than our own and have a workforce many times our entire population. We don’t really manufacture very much, don’t have anything in the way of a high technological capacity and seem to import just about everything except primary goods.

Sure Gough was charismatic and reformist but any PM that is sacked legally whilst in power ,cant be a performing one.
OK say what you want about the morality and or legality of the “Dissmissal” but it was over overwhelmingly vindicated by the Australian public at the next Election .
That single stand alone fact guantees he is only great in hindsight.

Cymek said:

In all reality Australia is always going to be the first world nations underdog, we can’t ever compete with nations whose economies are many times larger than our own and have a workforce many times our entire population. We don’t really manufacture very much, don’t have anything in the way of a high technological capacity and seem to import just about everything except primary goods.

Which if exported we also pay world prices.

Thomo said:

Sure Gough was charismatic and reformist but any PM that is sacked legally whilst in power ,cant be a performing one.
OK say what you want about the morality and or legality of the “Dissmissal” but it was over overwhelmingly vindicated by the Australian public at the next Election .
That single stand alone fact guantees he is only great in hindsight.

John Howard would be happy with that.

party_pants said:

Dropbear said:

party_pants said:

I’m not convinced the current HECS/HELP system was so broken it needed total deregulation in fees and a shift to bond rates of interest to fix it.

Me neither.. But I don’t think you need to be a fan of Communism to disagree with just about everything the current clowns are doing.

So what’s your point then? Gough went a bit too far with completely free education, but it got fixed up 25 years ago under Keating to something that by-and-large worked.

His excesses took decades to fix, much like, I envisage, the current mobs will

PermeateFree said:

Cymek said:

In all reality Australia is always going to be the first world nations underdog, we can’t ever compete with nations whose economies are many times larger than our own and have a workforce many times our entire population. We don’t really manufacture very much, don’t have anything in the way of a high technological capacity and seem to import just about everything except primary goods.

Which if exported we also pay world prices.

Can’t New Zealand be the first world nations underdog?

PermeateFree said:

Cymek said:

In all reality Australia is always going to be the first world nations underdog, we can’t ever compete with nations whose economies are many times larger than our own and have a workforce many times our entire population. We don’t really manufacture very much, don’t have anything in the way of a high technological capacity and seem to import just about everything except primary goods.

Which if exported we also pay world prices.

Can’t New Zealand be the first world nations underdog?

CrazyNeutrino said:

Why not combine capitalism with communism?

Why not combine capitalism with communism?

CrazyNeutrino said:

PermeateFree said:

Cymek said:

In all reality Australia is always going to be the first world nations underdog, we can’t ever compete with nations whose economies are many times larger than our own and have a workforce many times our entire population. We don’t really manufacture very much, don’t have anything in the way of a high technological capacity and seem to import just about everything except primary goods.

Which if exported we also pay world prices.

Can’t New Zealand be the first world nations underdog?

OK

Cymek said:

In all reality Australia is always going to be the first world nations underdog, we can’t ever compete with nations whose economies are many times larger than our own and have a workforce many times our entire population. We don’t really manufacture very much, don’t have anything in the way of a high technological capacity and seem to import just about everything except primary goods.

We don’t seem to have a future in anything but growing crops and raising herds, or digging great big holes in the ground, and converting that into overpriced capital-city housing. Too many vested interests abound to oppose any changes to that model.

Dropbear said:

party_pants said:

Dropbear said:

Me neither.. But I don’t think you need to be a fan of Communism to disagree with just about everything the current clowns are doing.

So what’s your point then? Gough went a bit too far with completely free education, but it got fixed up 25 years ago under Keating to something that by-and-large worked.

His excesses took decades to fix, much like, I envisage, the current mobs will

I don’t think any of his so-called excesses are still a problem.

party_pants said:

Cymek said:

In all reality Australia is always going to be the first world nations underdog, we can’t ever compete with nations whose economies are many times larger than our own and have a workforce many times our entire population. We don’t really manufacture very much, don’t have anything in the way of a high technological capacity and seem to import just about everything except primary goods.

We don’t seem to have a future in anything but growing crops and raising herds, or digging great big holes in the ground, and converting that into overpriced capital-city housing. Too many vested interests abound to oppose any changes to that model.

As a manufacturer we have some big disadvantages, first world wages and working conditions and at the end of a very long supply line.

CrazyNeutrino said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

Why not combine capitalism with communism?

Why not combine capitalism with communism?

well why not

you have liberals and labor and the senate to keep the bastards honest

so why not government corporations half own by the state and half owned by the rich?

CrazyNeutrino said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

Why not combine capitalism with communism?

Why not combine capitalism with communism?

well why not

you have liberals and labor and the senate to keep the bastards honest

so why not government corporations half own by the state and half owned by the rich?

IS that concept too much for investors?

CrazyNeutrino said:

Bubblecar said:

A true comrade of progressive Australia. More or less :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqMCZBjvmD4

There should be more politicians like him

More Barry Jones politicians too

Totally agree. I’d add Andrew Fisher to that list:
“When Fisher was Prime Minister a number of important projects were undertaken. The Royal Australian Navy was established, the Commonwealth Bank was set up, the Northern Territory of South Australia was transferred to the Commonwealth, the federal capital of Canberra was founded, and the construction of the trans-Australian railway line linking Perth to the other capitals was begun. As well as introducing maternity allowances, Fisher acknowledged the need for greater political equality for women.”

and Kevin Rudd.

Andrew Fisher (29 August 1862 – 22 October 1928) was an Australian politician who served as Prime Minister on three separate occasions. Fisher’s 1910–13 Labor ministry completed a vast legislative programme which made him, along with Protectionist Alfred Deakin, the founder of the statutory structure of the new nation. The Fisher government legacy of reforms and national development lasted beyond the divisions that would later occur with World War I and Billy Hughes’ conscription push.

Fisher’s second Prime Ministership resulting from the 1910 federal election represented a number of firsts: it was Australia’s first elected federal majority government, Australia’s first elected Senate majority, and the world’s first Labour Party majority government at a national level. At the time, it represented the culmination of Labour’s involvement in politics. Passing 113 Acts, the 1910–13 government was a period of reform unmatched in the Commonwealth until the 1940s under John Curtin and Ben Chifley. Serving a collective total of four years and ten months, Fisher is second to Bob Hawke as Australia’s longest serving Labor Prime Minister.

‘Labour’ was changed to ‘Labor’ during 1912 at the instigation of King O’Malley.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Fisher

Dropbear said:

His excesses took decades to fix, much like, I envisage, the current mobs will

Linking the current budget mess with Whitlam’s is absurd. There have been 5 governments and many fiscally sound surpluses since 1975.

mollwollfumble said:

and Kevin Rudd.

ROFL.

Jaysus, why don’t you include Andrew Bolt, he has about as much credibility.

Witty Rejoinder said:

Dropbear said:

His excesses took decades to fix, much like, I envisage, the current mobs will

Linking the current budget mess with Whitlam’s is absurd. There have been 5 governments and many fiscally sound surpluses since 1975.

BLINK

I read that as Droppsie being scathing of the current government.

Kevins own party said he was mad and unorganised…just before making him leader a second time.

Kevin Rudd

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVEaHcyMesQ

I agree with moll, Rudd was a pretty decent prime minister in terms of his government of the country, and was much praised at the time for steering Oz clear of the global recession. His problems were with his shrinking popularity within the party, which may well have been partly his own fault, but had a lot to do with the usual destructive ALP factionalism.

Bubblecar said:

which may well have been partly his own fault

Factionalism, I’m not sure you can call it that when everybody hates you.

sibeen said:

Bubblecar said:

which may well have been partly his own fault

Factionalism, I’m not sure you can call it that when everybody hates you.

Most of the Libs probably hate Abbott, but they’re more pragmatic about it.

maybe i should start a thread so people will see it…

Whitlam: The Power and the Passion
(Repeat)
8.39pm – 10.35pm
ABC
Tonight

Following the death today of former Prime Minister Gough Whitlam, this documentary charts the extraordinary story of the hard-fought rise and turbulent leadership of a visionary politician.

Saw that not so long ago. It is excellent. And I learnt things about him that I didn’t know before.

AwesomeO said:

Kevins own party said he was mad and unorganised…just before making him leader a second time.

Scratches head

Come back Barry

This is an interesting list:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-10-21/things-you-didnt-know-whitlam-did/5830508

He was a good man. I’m thankful for the vision he brought to Parliament.

I am sad that he is gone. Politicians of his calibre are very rare.

I am still waiting to see another one.

now who was commenting on the costs that gough left us with?

Health spending crisis isn’t real

Oh dear, what an embarrassment. Thank heavens so few journalists noticed. Last month one of the federal government’s official beancounters, the Australian Institute of Health and Welfare, issued its report on total spending on health in 2012-13. It didn’t exactly fit with what the government has been telling us.

As you recall, the minister for Health, Peter Dutton, got an early start this year, warning that health spending was growing “unsustainably”. (Blame it all on Gough Whitlam, whose supposedly too expensive Medibank Malcolm Fraser dismantled, only to have Bob Hawke restore it as Medicare.)

more at link.