All this talk of Gough not being the greatest PM has prompted a thought.

If not Gough, then who?

Not sure if he could be considered the greatest, but my favourite was Paul Keating.

sibeen said:

Not sure if he could be considered the greatest, but my favourite was Paul Keating.

nice pick…

John Curtin IMO.

Australian Prime Ministers

What about Harold Holt? I mean, his makes an interesting story.

Harold Holt.

.. because someone had to say it.

Witty Rejoinder said:

John Curtin IMO.

Yeah, I’d probably agree with that. Certainly the most stressful time in this Countries history.

All good comment and choices so far however our most popular PM was Bob Hawke. Not that he was a patch on Keating.

sibeen said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

John Curtin IMO.

Yeah, I’d probably agree with that. Certainly the most stressful time in this Countries history.

Curtin and Chifley stood out when I studied history.

Howard of course.. He made some mistakes, wasting a lot of money on tax cuts, but he was most certainly our best and most successful PM

Dropbear said:

Howard of course.. He made some mistakes, wasting a lot of money on tax cuts, but he was most certainly our best and most successful PM

INCOMINGGGGGGG!!!

Some would say Howard rode on the coat tails of the Hawke/Keating era reforms.

jjjust moi said:

Some would say Howard rode on the coat tails of the Hawke/Keating era reforms.

Yeh hawke/Keating did well but lacked Howard’s balls.

I miss John Howard.

Dropbear said:

Howard of course.. He made some mistakes, wasting a lot of money on tax cuts, but he was most certainly our best and most successful PM

—-

Not for me, all those tax cuts went mostly on the rich.

It is what a Liberal government does.

Good luck to the rich….

“John Howard is easily the most popular choice for Australia’s greatest postwar prime minister, new polling from Essential Report suggests, with 33% of voters saying he was Australia’s best prime minister, including 8% of Labor voters.”

This also agrees with a Galaxy poll.

“Last week, a Galaxy Research poll found that the former Liberal Party leader, John Howard, is regarded as the best Australian prime minister in the past 25 years.
Howard, on 35 per cent, finished ahead of Kevin Rudd (16 per cent), Bob Hawke (15 per cent), Paul Keating (9 per cent) and Julia Gillard (5 per cent) with one-fifth of those polled uncommitted.”

So there you have it pilgrims.
John Winston Howard (may his tribe increase) is regarded by our fellow Australians, Australians from all walks of life, from a western drover tending his flock to mums and dads in our bustling cities, to people from all over this wide diverse brown land, as the best and most loved PM.
They all look back and smile at those sunlit uplands that were the Howard golden years.

tauto said:

Dropbear said:

Howard of course.. He made some mistakes, wasting a lot of money on tax cuts, but he was most certainly our best and most successful PM

—-

Not for me, all those tax cuts went mostly on the rich.

It is what a Liberal government does.

Good luck to the rich….

The tax cuts were broad based and he did a lot to correct bracket creep.
They were too generous, but they were in the right direction.

i wonder if we’ll be talking about howard in the future like we do about Gough.

Dropbear said:

tauto said:

Dropbear said:

Howard of course.. He made some mistakes, wasting a lot of money on tax cuts, but he was most certainly our best and most successful PM

—-

Not for me, all those tax cuts went mostly on the rich.

It is what a Liberal government does.

Good luck to the rich….

The tax cuts were broad based and he did a lot to correct bracket creep.
They were too generous, but they were in the right direction to the rich….

Dropbear said:

tauto said:

Dropbear said:

Howard of course.. He made some mistakes, wasting a lot of money on tax cuts, but he was most certainly our best and most successful PM

—-

Not for me, all those tax cuts went mostly on the rich.

It is what a Liberal government does.

Good luck to the rich….

The tax cuts were broad based and he did a lot to correct bracket creep.
They were too generous, but they were in the right direction.

his first three terms were pretty good, the last term much of it was pork-barrelling in the face of low polls.

As a matter of fact he is so far in front of the rest that I’m prepared to call him the Bradman of Australian Prime Ministers.

by selling off the commonwealth bank the government lost control of the economy

ChrispenEvan said:

i wonder if we’ll be talking about howard in the future like we do about Gough.

.Probably not . The left have their own kind of hyper-fanaticism when it comes to their heroes. Those of us who acknowledg Howard can generally see his faults

ChrispenEvan said:

i wonder if we’ll be talking about howard in the future like we do about Gough.

I doubt it, most of it will positive.

ChrispenEvan said:

i wonder if we’ll be talking about howard in the future like we do about Gough.

——

Droppy and Kingy will.

party_pants said:

Dropbear said:

tauto said:

—-

Not for me, all those tax cuts went mostly on the rich.

It is what a Liberal government does.

Good luck to the rich….

The tax cuts were broad based and he did a lot to correct bracket creep.
They were too generous, but they were in the right direction.

his first three terms were pretty good, the last term much of it was pork-barrelling in the face of low polls.

Work choices was too far too quick. I agree his previous terms were better. That’s why we need a strong senate

Peak Warming Man said:

ChrispenEvan said:

i wonder if we’ll be talking about howard in the future like we do about Gough.

I doubt it, most of it will positive.

Giggle

ChrispenEvan said:

i wonder if we’ll be talking about howard in the future like we do about Gough.

I haven’t really been talking about Gough much, because I was too young to understand at the time. I was an adult during the Howard years.

Dropbear said:

Howard was a tiny-minded right-wing racist homophobe, who did nothing except waste everyone’s time. A disgusting little fart of less-than-zero consequence.

It’s not often I find myself in agreement with Droppy :)

Peak Warming Man said:

ChrispenEvan said:

i wonder if we’ll be talking about howard in the future like we do about Gough.

I doubt it, most of it will positive.

But what did he actually DO?

stuff.

Let’s face it, Frank Forde hardly put a foot wrong.

jjjust moi said:

But what did he actually DO?

Introduced the GST and that is about it.

jjjust moi said:

Peak Warming Man said:

ChrispenEvan said:

i wonder if we’ll be talking about howard in the future like we do about Gough.

I doubt it, most of it will positive.

But what did he actually DO?

He powerfully and successfully lead a cohesive United government for over a decade and stared down his only challenger making him look weak.

Krudd and Gizzard learned nothing about unity from him.

Dropbear said:

party_pants said:

Dropbear said:

The tax cuts were broad based and he did a lot to correct bracket creep.
They were too generous, but they were in the right direction.

his first three terms were pretty good, the last term much of it was pork-barrelling in the face of low polls.

Work choices was too far too quick. I agree his previous terms were better. That’s why we need a strong senate

——

Work choices showed how far he wanted to go to see if could con the ex Labor voters even more.

jjjust moi said:

But what did he actually DO?

Made damn well sure all progress was halted for the duration. He was a classic conservative in the sense of seeing his role as ensuring nothing of any consequence was achieved, unless it was regressive.

Dropbear said:

Work choices was too far too quick. I agree his previous terms were better. That’s why we need a strong senate

Howard was always a pragmatist rather than an ideologue. once they won control of the Senate in the last term he lost control over the ideologues in the party who saw it as a once-in-a-generation chance to force through reforms based on ideology – hence work-choices. Deeply unpopular with the ordinary voters and hence they started sliding in the polls. Not just WC but other stuff too. Being well down in the polls and unpopular they resorted to pork-barrelling, the legacy of which we are still dealing with.

>>Work choices was too far too quick.

Work Choices was the brian child of Joe Hockey, the laziest most incompetent fat punced up arseclown ever to pull on a blue jumper.
With work choices he shot himself in the foot and John Howard in the head.
He’s got form and it’s all bad, he should be taken out and belted once a day and twice on Sundays.

Peak Warming Man said:

>>Work choices was too far too quick.

Work Choices was the brian child of Joe Hockey, the laziest most incompetent fat punced up arseclown ever to pull on a blue jumper.
With work choices he shot himself in the foot and John Howard in the head.
He’s got form and it’s all bad, he should be taken out and belted once a day and twice on Sundays.

Peter Reith is more to blame IMO

Bubblecar said:

Dropbear said:

Howard was a tiny-minded right-wing racist homophobe, who did nothing except waste everyone’s time. A disgusting little fart of less-than-zero consequence.

It’s not often I find myself in agreement with Droppy :)

—-

I love the ROFLMAO diet… still coughing :))

Dropbear said:

Peak Warming Man said:

>>Work choices was too far too quick.

Work Choices was the brian child of Joe Hockey, the laziest most incompetent fat punced up arseclown ever to pull on a blue jumper.
With work choices he shot himself in the foot and John Howard in the head.
He’s got form and it’s all bad, he should be taken out and belted once a day and twice on Sundays.

Peter Reith is more to blame IMO

Reith retired at the 2001 election. He was unelectable after the maritime dispute and his expenses affairs regards his son.

Gillard ruthlessly crushed any chance of gay rights reform, but I’m sure Bubblecar hates her just as much as JWH

>>But what did he actually DO?

Hid achievements were many.
He fixed Whitlam’s East Timor disgrace and like Abbott he didn’t cowtow to Indonesia.
I’ll have more to say about this at a later time.

jjjust moi said:

But what did he actually DO?

Something about buying Gunns because of what happened in Tasmania.

Bubblecar said:

Dropbear said:

Howard was a tiny-minded right-wing racist homophobe, who did nothing except waste everyone’s time. A disgusting little fart of less-than-zero consequence.

It’s not often I find myself in agreement with Droppy :)

He forgot to add, overly monarchistic.

party_pants said:

jjjust moi said:

But what did he actually DO?

Something about buying Gunns because of what happened in Tasmania.

I can’t stand the bloke, but that was actually a brave decision and one that will stand the test of time, for far better for this Country.

sibeen said:

party_pants said:

jjjust moi said:

But what did he actually DO?

Something about buying Gunns because of what happened in Tasmania.

I can’t stand the bloke, but that was actually a brave decision and one that will stand the test of time, for far better for this Country.

Real leadership.

Dropbear said:

Gillard ruthlessly crushed any chance of gay rights reform, but I’m sure Bubblecar hates her just as much as JWH

I’m no friend of Gillard, but it was Howard who radically changed the Marriage Act to legally redefine marriage as: “the union of a man and a woman to exclusion of all others”, for the express purpose of blocking reform for generations to come. This is what I mean by “ensuring nothing of any consequence was achieved, unless it was regressive”.

The aboriginal intervention is another example of great leadership. A difficult decision to protect the truly vulnerable

Bubblecar said:

Dropbear said:

Gillard ruthlessly crushed any chance of gay rights reform, but I’m sure Bubblecar hates her just as much as JWH

I’m no friend of Gillard, but it was Howard who radically changed the Marriage Act to legally redefine marriage as: “the union of a man and a woman to exclusion of all others”, for the express purpose of blocking reform for generations to come. This is what I mean by “ensuring nothing of any consequence was achieved, unless it was regressive”.

This is true, but I base my analysis on a far broader ranges of KPIs, gay marriage doesn’t get such a great weighting from me. Mostly because I’m not gay myself, and I have very little chance of marrying a lesbian.

Well so far it seems that Whitlam achieved more reform for the better in 3 years, than JWH did in 11

Now we have a government where one minister, who is the environment minister, believes that walruses live in Antarctica.

Then we have another minister who thinks that abortion might lead to breast cancer.

Joe Hockey thinks wind generation is utterly offensive

Gawd help us.

so it is a toss up between Gough and howard and Gough is in front atm?

tauto said:

Now we have a government where one minister, who is the environment minister, believes that walruses live in Antarctica.

Then we have another minister who thinks that abortion might lead to breast cancer.

Joe Hockey thinks wind generation is utterly offensive

Gawd help us.

The current mob are pretty much the worst government in living memory… IMO and that’s a big statement given the rudd/Gillard years

Dropbear said:

tauto said:

Now we have a government where one minister, who is the environment minister, believes that walruses live in Antarctica.

Then we have another minister who thinks that abortion might lead to breast cancer.

Joe Hockey thinks wind generation is utterly offensive

Gawd help us.

The current mob are pretty much the worst government in living memory… IMO and that’s a big statement given the rudd/Gillard years

I don’t think as bad but certainly a piss poor performance.

ChrispenEvan said:

so it is a toss up between Gough and howard and Gough is in front atm?

Gough = good social policies, criminal economic mismanagement, took credit for leaving Vietnam which probably belongs to Nixon
Howard = only passable social policies (gun control, intervention), good economic management, excellent foreign policy management

Dropbear said:

ChrispenEvan said:

so it is a toss up between Gough and howard and Gough is in front atm?

Gough = good social policies, criminal economic mismanagement, took credit for leaving Vietnam which probably belongs to Nixon
Howard = only passable social policies (gun control, intervention), good economic management, excellent foreign policy management

A lot of Howard’s foreign policy management was due to Downer.

Christ, he must rue the day he was asked to wear stockings. What a political clusterfuck.

sibeen said:

Dropbear said:

ChrispenEvan said:

so it is a toss up between Gough and howard and Gough is in front atm?

Gough = good social policies, criminal economic mismanagement, took credit for leaving Vietnam which probably belongs to Nixon
Howard = only passable social policies (gun control, intervention), good economic management, excellent foreign policy management

A lot of Howard’s foreign policy management was due to Downer.

Christ, he must rue the day he was asked to wear stockings. What a political clusterfuck.

Downer was a very successful minister but im not sure he was leadership material.

Bit like Rudd

Dropbear said:

ChrispenEvan said:

so it is a toss up between Gough and howard and Gough is in front atm?

Gough = good social policies, criminal economic mismanagement, took credit for leaving Vietnam which probably belongs to Nixon
Howard = only passable social policies (gun control, intervention), good economic management, excellent foreign policy management

Wasn’t Howard the first Australian politician to lose his seat?

sibeen said:

Dropbear said:

ChrispenEvan said:

so it is a toss up between Gough and howard and Gough is in front atm?

Gough = good social policies, criminal economic mismanagement, took credit for leaving Vietnam which probably belongs to Nixon
Howard = only passable social policies (gun control, intervention), good economic management, excellent foreign policy management

A lot of Howard’s foreign policy management was due to Downer.

Christ, he must rue the day he was asked to wear stockings. What a political clusterfuck.

As would have Costello when he spat the dummy, he would have been a shoo in against Rudd the second time.

PermeateFree said:

Dropbear said:

ChrispenEvan said:

so it is a toss up between Gough and howard and Gough is in front atm?

Gough = good social policies, criminal economic mismanagement, took credit for leaving Vietnam which probably belongs to Nixon
Howard = only passable social policies (gun control, intervention), good economic management, excellent foreign policy management

Wasn’t Howard the first Australian politician to lose his seat?

No.

PermeateFree said:

Dropbear said:

ChrispenEvan said:

so it is a toss up between Gough and howard and Gough is in front atm?

Gough = good social policies, criminal economic mismanagement, took credit for leaving Vietnam which probably belongs to Nixon
Howard = only passable social policies (gun control, intervention), good economic management, excellent foreign policy management

Wasn’t Howard the first Australian politician to lose his seat?

No. It’s actually quite common.

• Wasn’t Howard the first Australian politician to lose his seat?

That kind of happens all the time…

PermeateFree said:

Wasn’t Howard the first Australian politician to lose his seat?

You mean Prime Minister?

yes, I think he was.

sibeen said:

PermeateFree said:

Dropbear said:

Gough = good social policies, criminal economic mismanagement, took credit for leaving Vietnam which probably belongs to Nixon
Howard = only passable social policies (gun control, intervention), good economic management, excellent foreign policy management

Wasn’t Howard the first Australian politician to lose his seat?

No. It’s actually quite common.

I think they all lose them eventually if they don’t retire first.

PermeateFree said:

Dropbear said:

ChrispenEvan said:

so it is a toss up between Gough and howard and Gough is in front atm?

Gough = good social policies, criminal economic mismanagement, took credit for leaving Vietnam which probably belongs to Nixon
Howard = only passable social policies (gun control, intervention), good economic management, excellent foreign policy management

Wasn’t Howard the first Australian politician to lose his seat?

I suspect you’re thinking North Korea.

we need a statistician. and someone to give odds.

whose in front now?

party_pants said:

PermeateFree said:

Wasn’t Howard the first Australian politician to lose his seat?

You mean Prime Minister?

yes, I think he was.

Thank you p_p yes a silly error on my part.

ChrispenEvan said:

we need a statistician. and someone to give odds.

whose in front now?

whose on first

ChrispenEvan said:

we need a statistician. and someone to give odds.

whose in front now?

Not Abbott :)

party_pants said:

PermeateFree said:

Wasn’t Howard the first Australian politician to lose his seat?

You mean Prime Minister?

yes, I think he was.

Stanley Bruce did too.

Actually I’m not sure anyone here has suggested Whitlam yet

we call him Gough.

comrade.

Witty Rejoinder said:

party_pants said:

PermeateFree said:

Wasn’t Howard the first Australian politician to lose his seat?

You mean Prime Minister?

yes, I think he was.

Stanley Bruce did too.

Thanks, I stand corrected.

Dropbear said:

Actually I’m not sure anyone here has suggested Whitlam yet

It’s difficult to say who was the greatest.

Many did some good things in differing areas, so it probably gets back to whoever you’re a fan boi for.

my excuse is that I wasn’t around in 1929 to recall the election. but I’m sure PWM will have more to say about it later.

jjjust moi said:

Dropbear said:

Actually I’m not sure anyone here has suggested Whitlam yet

It’s difficult to say who was the greatest.

Many did some good things in differing areas, so it probably gets back to whoever you’re a fan boi for.

I agree. Except it’s clearly Howard

We’ve not really had any outstanding PM’s by world standards like the USA had the Bush’s

Cymek said:

We’ve not really had any outstanding PM’s by world standards like the USA had the Bush’s

Tony Abbott is the closest we have to the Bushes

• Tony Abbott is the closest we have to the Bushes

TA and GW both look like ventriloquist dummies…

What was so great about Howard?

The Rev Dodgson said:

What was so great about Howard?

mad bowling skillz

The Rev Dodgson said:

What was so great about Howard?

His boyish goofy look.

The Rev Dodgson said:

What was so great about Howard?

well he did perform very well against a less than average ALP opposition…

The Rev Dodgson said:

What was so great about Howard?

His eyebrows.

So I’ve had a think about this… and I think the order of greatness is probably something along the lines of

• Curtin
• Menzies
• Hawke
• Whitlam

with a tied 5th place of

• Howard/Keating

Howard for his longevity and Keating for his brashness and economic reforms

diddly-squat said:

Howard for his longevity

How does being a waste of time for a very long time constitute “greatness”?

roughbarked said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

What was so great about Howard?

His boyish goofy look.

He made a great rubbery puppet

Bubblecar said:

diddly-squat said:

Howard for his longevity

How does being a waste of time for a very long time constitute “greatness”?

well I think if you can convince the public to vote for you multiple times then you are doing something right…

Cymek said:

roughbarked said:

His boyish goofy look.

He made a great rubbery puppet

He had a face not just like a slapped arse, but a slapped arse badly in need of wiping. And a moany little whinge of a voice.

diddly-squat said:

Bubblecar said:

diddly-squat said:

Howard for his longevity

How does being a waste of time for a very long time constitute “greatness”?

well I think if you can convince the public to vote for you multiple times then you are doing something right…

What makes you think the public knows what they are doing?

All this speculation will be null and void once Clive Palmer gets to be PM…

Then there will ge no arguemnt who the greatest PM is…

:P

diddly-squat said:

well I think if you can convince the public to vote for you multiple times then you are doing something right…

But a substantial number of Australians never voted for him and couldn’t stand him. I think this is what Dropbear doesn’t grasp – people who never vote for the coalition (and that’s a lot of voters) are usually openly hostile to coalition leaders. It’s been like that at least since Fraser.

Bubblecar said:

diddly-squat said:

well I think if you can convince the public to vote for you multiple times then you are doing something right…

But a substantial number of Australians never voted for him and couldn’t stand him. I think this is what Dropbear doesn’t grasp – people who never vote for the coalition (and that’s a lot of voters) are usually openly hostile to coalition leaders. It’s been like that at least since Fraser.

The point is about the devil you know…

Bubblecar said:

diddly-squat said:

well I think if you can convince the public to vote for you multiple times then you are doing something right…

But a substantial number of Australians never voted for him and couldn’t stand him. I think this is what Dropbear doesn’t grasp – people who never vote for the coalition (and that’s a lot of voters) are usually openly hostile to coalition leaders. It’s been like that at least since Fraser.

depends if they are voting for his face just like a slapped arse, or for his party’s policies…

roughbarked said:

diddly-squat said:

Bubblecar said:

How does being a waste of time for a very long time constitute “greatness”?

well I think if you can convince the public to vote for you multiple times then you are doing something right…

What makes you think the public knows what they are doing?

I think there is better than average transparency in Australian governmental process and action.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m no JWH fanboi… but the simple fact is he was PM for 11 years – you don’t get to do that unless you are good at your job.

All of the names I gave were good at their job.

stumpy_seahorse said:

All this speculation will be null and void once Clive Palmer gets to be PM…

Then there will ge no arguemnt who the greatest PM is…

:P

great as in ‘amount’?

roughbarked said:

diddly-squat said:

Bubblecar said:

How does being a waste of time for a very long time constitute “greatness”?

well I think if you can convince the public to vote for you multiple times then you are doing something right…

What makes you think the public knows what they are doing?

I’ll gunna vote for that bloke that gave us 900 bucks

Bubblecar said:

diddly-squat said:

well I think if you can convince the public to vote for you multiple times then you are doing something right…

But a substantial number of Australians never voted for him and couldn’t stand him. I think this is what Dropbear doesn’t grasp – people who never vote for the coalition (and that’s a lot of voters) are usually openly hostile to coalition leaders. It’s been like that at least since Fraser.

yeah, but we live in a democracy – lots of people didn’t like Rudd but he won by an overwhelming majority in 2007.

For someone that is so actively a-political you seem to have very strong views on what makes a good PM

diddly-squat said:

Bubblecar said:

diddly-squat said:

well I think if you can convince the public to vote for you multiple times then you are doing something right…

But a substantial number of Australians never voted for him and couldn’t stand him. I think this is what Dropbear doesn’t grasp – people who never vote for the coalition (and that’s a lot of voters) are usually openly hostile to coalition leaders. It’s been like that at least since Fraser.

yeah, but we live in a democracy – lots of people didn’t like Rudd but he won by an overwhelming majority in 2007.

For someone that is so actively a-political you seem to have very strong views on what makes a good PM

Fair points.

Cymek said:

roughbarked said:

diddly-squat said:

well I think if you can convince the public to vote for you multiple times then you are doing something right…

What makes you think the public knows what they are doing?

I’ll gunna vote for that bloke that gave us 900 bucks

‘Us’?

I got nuthin…

stumpy_seahorse said:

depends if they are voting for his face just like a slapped arse, or for his party’s policies…

Yes but obviously people who never vote for the coalition never voted for either his face or his policies. I don’t think one can sensibly talk of coalition leaders “unifying Australia”, as Dropbear was saying, because they’re too widely hated. The same may be true of their opponents but probably not to the same extent.

Bubblecar said:

stumpy_seahorse said:

depends if they are voting for his face just like a slapped arse, or for his party’s policies…

Yes but obviously people who never vote for the coalition never voted for either his face or his policies. I don’t think one can sensibly talk of coalition leaders “unifying Australia”, as Dropbear was saying, because they’re too widely hated. The same may be true of their opponents but probably not to the same extent.

was there a survey done?
orjust personal opinion?

diddly-squat said:

but the simple fact is he was PM for 11 years – you don’t get to do that unless you are good at your job.

You think coalition voters were choosing “quality” when they chose that snivelling little regressive? You seem to have a remarkably high opinion of conservative voters.

stumpy_seahorse said:

Cymek said:

roughbarked said:

What makes you think the public knows what they are doing?

I’ll gunna vote for that bloke that gave us 900 bucks

‘Us’?

I got nuthin…

Well that makes two of us. ;)

Bubblecar said:

stumpy_seahorse said:

depends if they are voting for his face just like a slapped arse, or for his party’s policies…

Yes but obviously people who never vote for the coalition never voted for either his face or his policies. I don’t think one can sensibly talk of coalition leaders “unifying Australia”, as Dropbear was saying, because they’re too widely hated. The same may be true of their opponents but probably not to the same extent.

well clearly there has never been a need to unify Australia… it’s not as if we were ever split apart – but I think that for the most part during the 4 terms of the Howard government he had the majority support of the Australian people.

John Howard was unspectacular, but a steady hand on the tiller. Never once do I recall him accuse the Chines of rat-fucking us, or him threatening to shirt-front the Russian President.

party_pants said:

John Howard was unspectacular, but a steady hand on the tiller. Never once do I recall him accuse the Chines of rat-fucking us, or him threatening to shirt-front the Russian President.

Didn’t stop him from saying other equally famous rubbish though.

Bubblecar said:

diddly-squat said:

but the simple fact is he was PM for 11 years – you don’t get to do that unless you are good at your job.

You think coalition voters were choosing “quality” when they chose that snivelling little regressive? You seem to have a remarkably high opinion of conservative voters.

I think this comment is pretty childish… I’m pretty left leaning and I do fail to understand the rational of right wing voters, but this is a democracy… that’s the way it works…

diddly-squat said:

Bubblecar said:

diddly-squat said:

but the simple fact is he was PM for 11 years – you don’t get to do that unless you are good at your job.

You think coalition voters were choosing “quality” when they chose that snivelling little regressive? You seem to have a remarkably high opinion of conservative voters.

I think this comment is pretty childish… I’m pretty left leaning and I do fail to understand the rational of right wing voters, but this is a democracy… that’s the way it works…

both the mrs and I are fence sitters when it comes to voting, we will voe for whoevers policies will advantage us.
Stillhave respect for the people in power and what they have achieved.

But I do find it strange that a recluse in a small country town in Tas has so much information about what the majority of the Aust population think.

And for someone with such strong views, doesn’t vote, which would give an opportunity to make a difference

• But I do find it strange that a recluse in a small country town in Tas has so much information about what the majority of the Aust population think.

Maybe we should ask someone in New Mexico?

furious said:

• But I do find it strange that a recluse in a small country town in Tas has so much information about what the majority of the Aust population think.

Maybe we should ask someone in New Mexico?

she still harping on about it is she?

lolz

furious said:

• But I do find it strange that a recluse in a small country town in Tas has so much information about what the majority of the Aust population think.

Maybe we should ask someone in New Mexico?

shots fired…

diddly-squat said:

roughbarked said:

diddly-squat said:

well I think if you can convince the public to vote for you multiple times then you are doing something right…

What makes you think the public knows what they are doing?

I think there is better than average transparency in Australian governmental process and action.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m no JWH fanboi… but the simple fact is he was PM for 11 years – you don’t get to do that unless you are good at your job.

All of the names I gave were good at their job.

Or just lucky ;)

diddly-squat said:

furious said:

• But I do find it strange that a recluse in a small country town in Tas has so much information about what the majority of the Aust population think.

Maybe we should ask someone in New Mexico?

shots fired…

!http://i.imgur.com/02irv.gif

waves to our NM lurker…

poikilotherm said:

diddly-squat said:

roughbarked said:

What makes you think the public knows what they are doing?

I think there is better than average transparency in Australian governmental process and action.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m no JWH fanboi… but the simple fact is he was PM for 11 years – you don’t get to do that unless you are good at your job.

All of the names I gave were good at their job.

Or just lucky ;)

Lucky that whoever was in opposition simply couldn’t raise a vote.

poikilotherm said:

diddly-squat said:

roughbarked said:

What makes you think the public knows what they are doing?

I think there is better than average transparency in Australian governmental process and action.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m no JWH fanboi… but the simple fact is he was PM for 11 years – you don’t get to do that unless you are good at your job.

All of the names I gave were good at their job.

Or just lucky ;)

that too… there is a lot of right place, right time in politics…

roughbarked said:

poikilotherm said:

diddly-squat said:

I think there is better than average transparency in Australian governmental process and action.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m no JWH fanboi… but the simple fact is he was PM for 11 years – you don’t get to do that unless you are good at your job.

All of the names I gave were good at their job.

Or just lucky ;)

Lucky that whoever was in opposition simply couldn’t raise a vote.

No. I recall that at least on one occassion JWH was behind in the Oz wide vote, but got back in because of our representative arrangement.

• No. I recall that at least on one occassion JWH was behind in the Oz wide vote, but got back in because of our representative arrangement.

Wasn’t that when he got in the first time, rather than “back in”?

furious said:

• No. I recall that at least on one occassion JWH was behind in the Oz wide vote, but got back in because of our representative arrangement.

Wasn’t that when he got in the first time, rather than “back in”?

Don’t think so. It was Beasely as Labor leader if I recall correctly.

• Don’t think so. It was Beasely as Labor leader if I recall correctly.

Indeed…

Australian federal election, 1998

House of Reps Votes:

Australian Labor Party – 4,454,306
Liberal Party of Australia – 3,764,707
National Party of Australia – 588,088

Why isn’t Dropbear defending his side today? Is it a working day today?

(Yes, I’m at work)

AwesomeO said:

Dropbear said:

Howard of course.. He made some mistakes, wasting a lot of money on tax cuts, but he was most certainly our best and most successful PM

INCOMINGGGGGGG!!!

How can incoming be detected when the projectiles are travelling faster than sound?

John Winston Howard, OM, AC … & soon I predict Nobel laureate ,

will be remembered not only as the Greatest Prime Minister Australia

has had, but the World’s greatest ever leader.

Why you ask?

Within the first year of his first term he utterly & unequivocally stopped

Global Warming!
.
.

diddly-squat said:

I think this comment is pretty childish… I’m pretty left leaning and I do fail to understand the rational of right wing voters, but this is a democracy… that’s the way it works…

Yes, but this is where I don’t really understand your position in this thread. Just because a conservative like Dropbear thinks a conservative like Howard was a “great prime minister”, doesn’t mean that those of us who are opposed to conservative politics are under any obligation to agree with him :)

I obviously disagreed quite strongly with Howard’s politics but he was certainly a substantial politician. In the decade+ in opposition he remade the Liberal Party in his own image, almost eradicating the liberal element and transforming it into a fully conservative party, and when he got to the top he was able to manage the party effectively.

He was also lucky – the first PM since McMahon not to have to deal with a major international recession. His government would look very different if, say, the GFC had hit in the first few weeks.

The thing I find funny is that when asked to name his greatest achievements even conservatives will list gun control and East Timor – the two times he reluctantly embraced leftist causes after a lifetime of political opposition. Maybe he should have taken up more left causes, he could have had an even better legacy.

MartinB said:

I obviously disagreed quite strongly with Howard’s politics but he was certainly a substantial politician. In the decade+ in opposition he remade the Liberal Party in his own image, almost eradicating the liberal element and transforming it into a fully conservative party, and when he got to the top he was able to manage the party effectively.

He was also lucky – the first PM since McMahon not to have to deal with a major international recession. His government would look very different if, say, the GFC had hit in the first few weeks.

The thing I find funny is that when asked to name his greatest achievements even conservatives will list gun control and East Timor – the two times he reluctantly embraced leftist causes after a lifetime of political opposition. Maybe he should have taken up more left causes, he could have had an even better legacy.

The GST was pretty good.

MartinB said:

The thing I find funny is that when asked to name his greatest achievements even conservatives will list gun control and East Timor – the two times he reluctantly embraced leftist causes after a lifetime of political opposition. Maybe he should have taken up more left causes, he could have had an even better legacy.

Aye. Hence Fraser’s desperate attempt to reinvent himself as a “lefty”, so that he’s not just remembered as the unplrincipled bully-boy that he actually was :)

The GST was certainly his major economic reform but people are more reluctant to list it…

Certainly I disagreed with the implementation, with tax cuts skewed towards the wealthy (although Howard/Costello certainly weren’t as mean/stupid as Abbott/Hockey). And whatever you think of his approach to it at the 98 election he was clearly lying through his teeth about it at the 96 election…

Bubblecar said:

MartinB said:

The thing I find funny is that when asked to name his greatest achievements even conservatives will list gun control and East Timor – the two times he reluctantly embraced leftist causes after a lifetime of political opposition. Maybe he should have taken up more left causes, he could have had an even better legacy.

Aye. Hence Fraser’s desperate attempt to reinvent himself as a “lefty”, so that he’s not just remembered as the unplrincipled bully-boy that he actually was :)

Howard pushed through gun control through strong leadership despite opposition from the nationals

There was nothing grudgingly about it

Bubblecar said:

diddly-squat said:

I think this comment is pretty childish… I’m pretty left leaning and I do fail to understand the rational of right wing voters, but this is a democracy… that’s the way it works…

Yes, but this is where I don’t really understand your position in this thread. Just because a conservative like Dropbear thinks a conservative like Howard was a “great prime minister”, doesn’t mean that those of us who are opposed to conservative politics are under any obligation to agree with him :)

Incorrectly arguing about Howard’s rightfuk place as our greatest prime minister just because he was a conservative is a special kind of dumb.

I’m actually quite left of centre these days, but credit where it’s due.

Dropbear said:

Howard pushed through gun control through strong leadership despite opposition from the nationals

There was nothing grudgingly about it

But it was just an isolated response to single event (the Port Arthur killings). Had that not occurred, it’s unlikely Howard would have regarded gun control as an issue worth pursuing.

Bubblecar said:

Dropbear said:

Howard pushed through gun control through strong leadership despite opposition from the nationals

There was nothing grudgingly about it

But it was just an isolated response to single event (the Port Arthur killings). Had that not occurred, it’s unlikely Howard would have regarded gun control as an issue worth pursuing.

So?

He responded powerfully with great leadership during a time of national suffering, despite opposition from within his own coalition

Something many US presidents could learn much from

Dropbear said:

Incorrectly arguing about Howard’s rightfuk place as our greatest prime minister just because he was a conservative is a special kind of dumb.

So I’m supposed to regard Howard as a “great PM” even though I regard most of his politics as a destructive and retarding influence on Australian society?

Dropbear said:

He responded powerfully with great leadership

As Martin argued, it was a rare occasion in which leftist causes benefited from his usual authoritarian approach.

howard

the war on Iraq

the war on Afghanistan

removing Indonesia from east timor

solar panel rebate

selling off the commonwealth bank – major economic lever

reducing governmental debt to 90 billion – now 500 billion dollars and climbing

buying guns back

cuts to government

stopped listening to the populace could take days before government released any statement – arrogant downer

Bubblecar said:

Dropbear said:

Incorrectly arguing about Howard’s rightfuk place as our greatest prime minister just because he was a conservative is a special kind of dumb.

So I’m supposed to regard Howard as a “great PM” even though I regard most of his politics as a destructive and retarding influence on Australian society?

You can acknowledge someone as a great leader – which he was by any sensible measure – economically, socially, foreign policy, stability etc etc despite disagreeing with his politics

Bubblecar said:

Dropbear said:

He responded powerfully with great leadership

As Martin argued, it was a rare occasion in which leftist causes benefited from his usual authoritarian approach.

And again, so what. It shows that he can make strong leadership decisions that go anti to the usual conservative approach.

Thst qualifies him for greatness, not disqualifies.

prime ministers are just managers that look after the mines here – “democratically”

oh yes I forgot GST

Dropbear said:

You can acknowledge someone as a great leader – which he was by any sensible measure – economically, socially, foreign policy, stability etc etc despite disagreeing with his politics

You could say the same about all kinds of rogues – Stalin, for example – but sorry, I don’t regard him as a “great leader” either :)

Howard was worse than hitler. Serial, I have seen luvvies say this with sincere conviction.

a successful government minister is one that manages to stay in and collect wages for quite some time

its not about what they do – people seem happy to be boned this way and that so its not on performance

when people vote its about the lowest common denominator

you win by the lowest common denominator and cheating at the ballot box in Australia

AwesomeO said:

Howard was worse than hitler. Serial, I have seen luvvies say this with sincere conviction.

YouChoob or it didn’t happen.

;)

come next election i’ll probably just tear my vote up , with no electoral security its not worth it

There was nothing grudgingly about it

Except that when Labor proposed gun control in the 80s, Howard opposed it.

MartinB said:

bq. There was nothing grudgingly about it

Except that when Labor proposed gun control in the 80s, Howard opposed it.

There you are then.

Howard was worse than hitler. Serial, I have seen luvvies say this with sincere conviction.

labor supporters eh! good job the right is nothing like that or we’d be lost.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-10-22/is-video-showing-17yo-australian-27chilling27-and-27horrible/5832268

as time goes by and as the government create MORE chaos in to the system to make unemployment you can expect more if this

when people under go a personal crisis they’ll start converting , its been happening in Britain a lot for a while.

anyway not my problem

ChrispenEvan said:

Howard was worse than hitler. Serial, I have seen luvvies say this with sincere conviction.

labor supporters eh! good job the right is nothing like that or we’d be lost.

I’m not sure how ironic you are being here but if you want to see unhinged conservatives with no sense of perspective you could hang out at Catallaxy…

i think i was being more sarcastic than ironic. it is usually my default position.

:-)

wookiemeister said:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-10-22/is-video-showing-17yo-australian-27chilling27-and-27horrible/5832268

as time goes by and as the government create MORE chaos in to the system to make unemployment you can expect more if this

when people under go a personal crisis they’ll start converting , its been happening in Britain a lot for a while.

anyway not my problem

oh yeh, all the doley’s will be running around beheading the workers yelling Allah akbar.

unemployment does that to ya

happens in every country with a conservative government.

MartinB said:

bq. There was nothing grudgingly about it

Except that when Labor proposed gun control in the 80s, Howard opposed it.

You mean like how Keating opposed the GST?

The_observer said:

wookiemeister said:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-10-22/is-video-showing-17yo-australian-27chilling27-and-27horrible/5832268

as time goes by and as the government create MORE chaos in to the system to make unemployment you can expect more if this

when people under go a personal crisis they’ll start converting , its been happening in Britain a lot for a while.

anyway not my problem

oh yeh, all the doley’s will be running around beheading the workers yelling Allah akbar.

unemployment does that to ya

happens in every country with a conservative government.

How much control does a government have over unemployment anyway, lots of factors completely outside their control, no use blame them most of the time regardless of which party is in power.

diddly-squat said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

What was so great about Howard?

well he did perform very well against a less than average ALP opposition…

And against better than average opposition leaders like Buckets

Dropbear said:

diddly-squat said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

What was so great about Howard?

well he did perform very well against a less than average ALP opposition…

And against better than average opposition leaders like Buckets

I’d still like a list of the things he did that make him a great leader.

the right wingers need their idol, unfortunately they just have tin ones not like us luvvies with our Gold Plated 24 carrot Gough.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Dropbear said:

diddly-squat said:

well he did perform very well against a less than average ALP opposition…

And against better than average opposition leaders like Buckets

I’d still like a list of the things he did that make him a great leader.

1. Gun control.
2. When he was voted out, he exited gracefully and disappeared.
4. What happened to point 3?
3. Oh, here it is.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Dropbear said:

diddly-squat said:

well he did perform very well against a less than average ALP opposition…

And against better than average opposition leaders like Buckets

I’d still like a list of the things he did that make him a great leader.

read the thread. ample evidence is provided.

Dropbear said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Dropbear said:

And against better than average opposition leaders like Buckets

I’d still like a list of the things he did that make him a great leader.

read the thread. ample evidence is provided.

The reason I asked is because I don’t see anything in the thread explicitly stating what people see as the achievements that made him great.

The Rev Dodgson said:

The reason I asked is because I don’t see anything in the thread explicitly stating what people see as the achievements that made him great.

It’s all there. Some examples of what people think are East Timor, gun control, the GST, the intervention.

Some people weren’t necessarily being serious…

May as well throw it here.

HSC question

The question was: The Fraser government completely overturned the social and economic changes implemented under the Whitlam government. To what extent is this statement accurate?

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/education/hsc-2014-we-all-fell-in-love-with-gough-whitlam-20141021-119ads.html#ixzz3GsGElwO8

He first became publicly prominent in 1981 when he was appointed chief executive of the State Bank of New South Wales. Subsequent roles include an investment banking partnership with future Liberal leader Malcolm Turnbull, Whitlam Turnbull & Co, and the chairmanship of the NRMA Group, NRMA. Whitlam was the key figure in the 2000 demutualization and listing of NRMA Insurance Limited, the country’s largest insurance company, now known as Insurance Australia Group Limited (IAG).

He was initially found guilty after controversial civil proceedings brought by the Australian Securities and Investments Commission, a corporate regulator, alleging breaches of his director’s duties, but had the decision overturned by the Court of Appeal in 2003.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Whitlam

the fruit does not fall far from the tree

Witty Rejoinder said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

The reason I asked is because I don’t see anything in the thread explicitly stating what people see as the achievements that made him great.

It’s all there. Some examples of what people think are East Timor, gun control, the GST, the intervention.

Doesn’t seem much for a greatest PM over a period of 13 years.

I mean even if you think all these things were damned good, it looks more like competence rather than greatness.

I am increasingly of the opinion that Howard is certainly not the worst…

dv said:

I am increasingly of the opinion that Howard is certainly not the worst…

Chuckle

The Rev Dodgson said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

The reason I asked is because I don’t see anything in the thread explicitly stating what people see as the achievements that made him great.

It’s all there. Some examples of what people think are East Timor, gun control, the GST, the intervention.

Doesn’t seem much for a greatest PM over a period of 13 years.

I mean even if you think all these things were damned good, it looks more like competence rather than greatness.

Competence is great praise indeed for the last few decades of Australian PMs

Dropbear said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

It’s all there. Some examples of what people think are East Timor, gun control, the GST, the intervention.

Doesn’t seem much for a greatest PM over a period of 13 years.

I mean even if you think all these things were damned good, it looks more like competence rather than greatness.

Competence is great praise indeed for the last few decades of Australian PMs

While I’m not sure I totally agree with Rev… The last three PMs have all been at least competent…

What’s it come to when a pinko-lefty like myself has to defend JWH??

diddly-squat said:

What’s it come to when a pinko-lefty like myself has to defend JWH??

Well, considering that the reasons people think he was a notable PM are the pinko-lefty decisions he will forever be lauded for and which kept him in office for longer than Australia would have put up with him for.

roughbarked said:

diddly-squat said:

What’s it come to when a pinko-lefty like myself has to defend JWH??

Well, considering that the reasons people think he was a notable PM are the pinko-lefty decisions he will forever be lauded for and which kept him in office for longer than Australia would have put up with him for.

ummmm…. I’m not too sure that his most notable ‘achievements’ could be easily labeled as ‘pinko-lefty’…

diddly-squat said:

roughbarked said:

diddly-squat said:

What’s it come to when a pinko-lefty like myself has to defend JWH??

Well, considering that the reasons people think he was a notable PM are the pinko-lefty decisions he will forever be lauded for and which kept him in office for longer than Australia would have put up with him for.

ummmm…. I’m not too sure that his most notable ‘achievements’ could be easily labeled as ‘pinko-lefty’…

For the JWH I’ve watched since he was treasurer in the mid 70’s, they are.

It will be no surprise that I don’t rate JWH near the top of the list. He benefitted from good conditions economically and politically and exploited them skilfully. But to what end? Economically his government created the structural deficit we now face while tilting the tax system towards the wealthy. And much of his political success came through mainstreaming division and racism (IMO).

Nonetheless I certainly don’t see him near the bottom of the list either. People forget how many truly mediocre PMs we’ve had: Cook, McMahon, Bruce, Holt.

Speedy said:

Australian Prime Ministers

What about Harold Holt? I mean, his makes an interesting story.

Nah, Harold Holt was just the greatest Liberal Party PM. Unfortunately, the Liberal Party figured that out and so had to do something about it. I can hear the Liberal Party back room conversation in my head right now.
Party member 1: “Our PM has done something good for Australia”.
Party member 2: “We can’t have that!”

More particularly, Holt did an amazing number of great things despite his short tenure. If only he could have had more time.

mollwollfumble said:

Speedy said:

Australian Prime Ministers

What about Harold Holt? I mean, his makes an interesting story.

Nah, Harold Holt was just the greatest Liberal Party PM. Unfortunately, the Liberal Party figured that out and so had to do something about it. I can hear the Liberal Party back room conversation in my head right now.
Party member 1: “Our PM has done something good for Australia”.
Party member 2: “We can’t have that!”

More particularly, Holt did an amazing number of great things despite his short tenure. If only he could have had more time.

Isn’t he in China

Dropbear said:

Competence is great praise indeed for the last few decades of Australian PMs

I disagree. I don’t see a great variation in either competence of underlying policy from any of the PMs I have observed since arriving in Australia in 1984, with the possible exception of the current one.

The main difference is the way the policies are sold.

From something I wrote earlier:

Australian Prime Ministers. What have they ever done for us?

John Howard – did absolutely nothing despite 10 years in power

New tax: GST
Removed tax: Sales tax
Opened Australian Space Angency
Closed Australian Space Agency
Began bringing Australian troops back from Iraq
Sent more Australian troops to Afghanistan
Reduced funding for science and education

Julia Guillard – did nothing other than increase taxes

New tax: Carbon tax
New tax: Flood levy
New tax: Mining tax
New tax: Increased Medicare levy

Kevin Rudd

Cashback to taxpayers to kickstart an economy left moribund by Howard – it worked
2020 series of conferences to map out Australia’s future, environment, technology, manufacturing etc.
Funding to 3MBS and other community radio to allow them to continue after switch to digital
Murray-Darling water supply
Discounted roof insulation to reduce houshold power use
First Prime Minister invited to attend G8 summit
Began bringing Australian troops back from Afghanistan
Started the NBN
Apology to the Aboriginal People
Encouraging Australian small business and manufacturing
Fair Work Act, better employment conditions
The Digital Education Revolution, incl. laptops to public high school students in years 9-12

Did you know it was Stanley Bruce who gave us the CSIRO, at first the CSIR, in 1926?

Julia did do that famous Misogyny speech

Tony deserved it I think

mollwollfumble said:

Did you know it was Stanley Bruce who gave us the CSIRO, at first the CSIR, in 1926?

He was a foward thinking person

• Did you know it was Stanley Bruce who gave us the CSIRO, at first the CSIR, in 1926?

Yeah, but what was his stance on water divining?

mollwollfumble said:

Kevin Rudd

Cashback to taxpayers to kickstart an economy left moribund by Howard – it worked
2020 series of conferences to map out Australia’s future, environment, technology, manufacturing etc.

ROFL, yep that was a standout

Funding to 3MBS and other community radio to allow them to continue after switch to digital

Another standout

Murray-Darling water supply

What? That’s a State issue

Discounted roof insulation to reduce houshold power use

Brilliant (sarc)

First Prime Minister invited to attend G8 summit

He must be so proud. It raised our GDP by 0.0000000000000%. Well done

Began bringing Australian troops back from Afghanistan

Had SFA to do with him. The USA and the UK et al where doing exactly the same

Started the NBN

Hallelejah (sarc)

Apology to the Aboriginal People

Long overdue

Encouraging Australian small business and manufacturing

Oh, for gods sake. What did he do, clap from the sidelines

• Long overdue

And essentially meaningless…

furious said:

• Did you know it was Stanley Bruce who gave us the CSIRO, at first the CSIR, in 1926?

Yeah, but what was his stance on water divining?

I don’t think he would have created a ministry of water divining

sibeen said:

mollwollfumble said:

Kevin Rudd

Cashback to taxpayers to kickstart an economy left moribund by Howard – it worked
2020 series of conferences to map out Australia’s future, environment, technology, manufacturing etc.

ROFL, yep that was a standout

Speak for yourself, I missed out on it…

stumpy_seahorse said:

sibeen said:

mollwollfumble said:

Kevin Rudd

Cashback to taxpayers to kickstart an economy left moribund by Howard – it worked
2020 series of conferences to map out Australia’s future, environment, technology, manufacturing etc.

ROFL, yep that was a standout

Speak for yourself, I missed out on it…

So did I stumpy, but I was actually referring to the 2020 conference. I wasn’t invited to that either…the bastards!

sibeen said:

mollwollfumble said:

Kevin Rudd

Cashback to taxpayers to kickstart an economy left moribund by Howard – it worked
2020 series of conferences to map out Australia’s future, environment, technology, manufacturing etc.

ROFL, yep that was a standout

Funding to 3MBS and other community radio to allow them to continue after switch to digital

Another standout

Murray-Darling water supply

What? That’s a State issue

Discounted roof insulation to reduce houshold power use

Brilliant (sarc)

First Prime Minister invited to attend G8 summit

He must be so proud. It raised our GDP by 0.0000000000000%. Well done

Began bringing Australian troops back from Afghanistan

Had SFA to do with him. The USA and the UK et al where doing exactly the same

Started the NBN

Hallelejah (sarc)

Apology to the Aboriginal People

Long overdue

Encouraging Australian small business and manufacturing

Oh, for gods sake. What did he do, clap from the sidelines

NBN

I have a link to his learning Chinese

CrazyNeutrino said:

sibeen said:

mollwollfumble said:

Kevin Rudd

Cashback to taxpayers to kickstart an economy left moribund by Howard – it worked
2020 series of conferences to map out Australia’s future, environment, technology, manufacturing etc.

ROFL, yep that was a standout

Funding to 3MBS and other community radio to allow them to continue after switch to digital

Another standout

Murray-Darling water supply

What? That’s a State issue

Discounted roof insulation to reduce houshold power use

Brilliant (sarc)

First Prime Minister invited to attend G8 summit

He must be so proud. It raised our GDP by 0.0000000000000%. Well done

Began bringing Australian troops back from Afghanistan

Had SFA to do with him. The USA and the UK et al where doing exactly the same

Started the NBN

Hallelejah (sarc)

Apology to the Aboriginal People

Long overdue

Encouraging Australian small business and manufacturing

Oh, for gods sake. What did he do, clap from the sidelines

NBN

I have a link to his learning Chinese

you said that the other day…

Yet couldn’t use proper english yourself…

stumpy_seahorse said:

sibeen said:

mollwollfumble said:

Kevin Rudd

Cashback to taxpayers to kickstart an economy left moribund by Howard – it worked
2020 series of conferences to map out Australia’s future, environment, technology, manufacturing etc.

ROFL, yep that was a standout

Speak for yourself, I missed out on it…

Ho9w come? Were you too rich that year?

• Ho9w come? Were you too rich that year

They didn’t give it to inmates…

furious said:

• Ho9w come? Were you too rich that year

They didn’t give it to inmates…

Well I know Mr buffy didn’t get it because he accessed some of his super that year to do some work on our house, and they counted that as income for the year.

sibeen said:

mollwollfumble said:

Kevin Rudd

Cashback to taxpayers to kickstart an economy left moribund by Howard – it worked
2020 series of conferences to map out Australia’s future, environment, technology, manufacturing etc.

ROFL, yep that was a standout

Funding to 3MBS and other community radio to allow them to continue after switch to digital

Another standout

Murray-Darling water supply

What? That’s a State issue

Discounted roof insulation to reduce houshold power use

Brilliant (sarc)

First Prime Minister invited to attend G8 summit

He must be so proud. It raised our GDP by 0.0000000000000%. Well done

Began bringing Australian troops back from Afghanistan

Had SFA to do with him. The USA and the UK et al where doing exactly the same

Started the NBN

Hallelejah (sarc)

Apology to the Aboriginal People

Long overdue

Encouraging Australian small business and manufacturing

Oh, for gods sake. What did he do, clap from the sidelines

I had no idea that howard was responsible for the GFC. Live and learn I guess.

buffy said:

furious said:

• Ho9w come? Were you too rich that year

They didn’t give it to inmates…

Well I know Mr buffy didn’t get it because he accessed some of his super that year to do some work on our house, and they counted that as income for the year.

To tell the truth I cannot remember whether I was over the threshold or not. I hadn’t done my tax return, I’m a laggard, and so missed out.

sibeen said:

buffy said:

furious said:

• Ho9w come? Were you too rich that year

They didn’t give it to inmates…

Well I know Mr buffy didn’t get it because he accessed some of his super that year to do some work on our house, and they counted that as income for the year.

To tell the truth I cannot remember whether I was over the threshold or not. I hadn’t done my tax return, I’m a laggard, and so missed out.

I got it. I’m low income. Actually I really do have a taxable income equal to the mean for Australia. Although I know many people think they do, I looked it up. And I do.

buffy said:

stumpy_seahorse said:

sibeen said:

Speak for yourself, I missed out on it…

Ho9w come? Were you too rich that year?

they paid people on disability first, then 2 weeks later everyone else..

During that 2 weeks i got onto DSP, so wasn’t eligible either time

stumpy_seahorse said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

sibeen said:

NBN

I have a link to his learning Chinese

you said that the other day…

Yet couldn’t use proper english yourself…

Least I didn’t swear about it or did I

but yes I have an on going problem with your and you’re

and I imagine will still get them confused in the future

stumpy_seahorse said:

buffy said:

stumpy_seahorse said:

Speak for yourself, I missed out on it…

Ho9w come? Were you too rich that year?

they paid people on disability first, then 2 weeks later everyone else..

During that 2 weeks i got onto DSP, so wasn’t eligible either time

That’s rough. But then we thought counting mr buffy’s own money as income was a bit rough too.

the only thing that’s going to work now is to completely sack the current managers or things will keep getting worse

you need a utter sacking of the management structure – root and stump and then start all over again

infrastructure needs to be run by engineers and people trained in that particular discipline – not people trained purely in managing – they need to be people that have worked their way up in that discipline – that cuts off the route to promoting people who don’t know what they are doing

the best thing you can do now is to try and batten the hatches down – they are trying to drop an economic bomb on people.

at a time when people need to be employed they are buying fighter jets we’ll never use and that have no advantage over current aircraft and importantly don’t seem to work.

at a time when we should be building factories to compete with china we are shutting them down, we are shutting the schools and places of education or making it harder to train people simply because they have made the decision that we won’t need these people because we won’t need skilled people anymore just more managers and desk jockeys to manage an increasingly restless population.

if you look at the government as an employer, which joe hockey seems to think we are – how long do you think you have as an employee when you start adding up the numbers and seeing what they are doing to you?

any way enjoy your unemployment people

And I don’t think I meant ‘mean’. I meant most common (is that median? I keep forgetting)

buffy said:

sibeen said:

buffy said:

Well I know Mr buffy didn’t get it because he accessed some of his super that year to do some work on our house, and they counted that as income for the year.

To tell the truth I cannot remember whether I was over the threshold or not. I hadn’t done my tax return, I’m a laggard, and so missed out.

I got it. I’m low income. Actually I really do have a taxable income equal to the mean for Australia. Although I know many people think they do, I looked it up. And I do.

i was working 3 casual jobs that year, one gave me accomodation as payment, one was saturday night glassy at local pub $50 cash in hand and the other was 2-3 days tour guiding at seahorse world, plus doing uni, I was wel under the threshold, timing just failed me

buffy said:

And I don’t think I meant ‘mean’. I meant most common (is that median? I keep forgetting)

Mean = average – so is scewed.

Median = middle.

sibeen said:

buffy said:

And I don’t think I meant ‘mean’. I meant most common (is that median? I keep forgetting)

Mean = average – so is scewed.

Median = middle.

mode is most common

oh yes

the NBN equipment isn’t even made over here!!!!!

we couldn’t even put together the electronics needed

the public phones you see on the street are made in spain – and they aren’t even designed to be left outside!!! they go wrong when they are outside

brainless

sibeen said:

buffy said:

And I don’t think I meant ‘mean’. I meant most common (is that median? I keep forgetting)

Mean = average – so is scewed.

Median = middle.

Eek…“skewed”

stumpy_seahorse said:

they paid people on disability first, then 2 weeks later everyone else..

During that 2 weeks i got onto DSP, so wasn’t eligible either time

Has it ever occurred to you that you’re really really unlucky?

:-P

Witty Rejoinder said:

stumpy_seahorse said:

they paid people on disability first, then 2 weeks later everyone else..

During that 2 weeks i got onto DSP, so wasn’t eligible either time

Has it ever occurred to you that you’re really really unlucky?

:-P

Dear oh dear.