One of the biggest gambles in space history comes to a climax this week when Europe attempts to make the first landing on a comet.

Speeding towards the sun at 65,000km/h, a laboratory called Philae will detach from its mother ship Rosetta and head for a deep-space rendezvous laden with risk.

The 100-kilogram probe will seek out a minuscule landing site on the treacherous surface of an object darker than coal, half a billion kilometres from home.

“It’s not going to be an easy business,” was the understated prediction of Philippe Gaudon of France’s National Centre for Space as the mission prepared to enter countdown mode.

The stakes facing Rosetta managers in Darmstadt, Germany, are daunting as the €1.3 billion ($1.95 billion) project reaches a peak.

Two decades of work have been poured into what could be a crowning moment in space exploration.

The goal: the first laboratory research into the primaeval matter of the solar system – ancient ice and dust that, some experts believe, may have helped to sow life on Earth itself.

According to this theory, comets pounded the fledgling Earth 4.6 billion years ago, providing it with complex organic carbon molecules and precious water.

Rosetta has already sent home fascinating data on the comet, but Philae will provide the first on-the-ground assessment, using 10 instruments to study the comet’s physical and chemical composition.

Like Rosetta, it will wield a mass spectrometer, a high-tech tool to analyse a sample’s chemical signature, aimed at drawing up a complete carbon inventory.

The showstopper find would be molecules known as left-handed amino acids, the European Space Agency (ESA) says.

“These are the bricks with which all proteins on Earth are built,” it says.

But getting Philae into position will be a white-knuckle ride.

After its launch in 2004, Rosetta spent 10 years zig-zagging around Earth and Mars, using the planets’ gravitational pull as a slingshot to build up speed to reach its prey, Comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko.

No one knows what a comet’s surface is like.

Is it hard and crusty, like a shell? Crumbly? Slippery? Is it brittle – will it crack, causing Philae to sink into some fudgy or spongey substance below?

Seeking to cover all the possibilities, Philae’s designers have equipped the lander with three outstretched legs designed to dampen the impact.

http://www.smh.com.au/technology/sci-tech/astronomy/european-spacecraft-rosetta-set-to-drop-lander-on-comet-20141110-11j2v3.html

Darker than coal?

Cool

I’ll put this here

Images of the comet nucleus, taken by Rosetta earlier in the summer, showed that the distinct jets of dust and gas emanating from the comet were originated from the neck region, which connects the comet’s two lobes. Images obtained by OSIRIS (Rosetta’s Optical, Spectroscopic, and Infrared Remote Imaging System) now show jets of dust along almost the entire length of the comet.

Comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko showing jets of dust

AwesomeO said:

Darker than coal?

Apparently. Our moon’s albedo (light reflectivity) is supposed to be about that of coal.

Bubblecar said:

AwesomeO said:

Darker than coal?

Apparently. Our moon’s albedo (light reflectivity) is supposed to be about that of coal.

Our moon? The one that reflects the light from the sun? As reflective as a lump of coal? Coal to me is more of a light trap, but I am happy to learn. Having said that, I am thinking more of the dull sort of coal not that shiny flinty hard stuff.

AwesomeO said:

Our moon? The one that reflects the light from the sun? As reflective as a lump of coal? Coal to me is more of a light trap, but I am happy to learn. Having said that, I am thinking more of the dull sort of coal not that shiny flinty hard stuff.

Yes, the moon reflects only about 12% of the light it receives. If you put a lump of coal the size of the moon in Earth orbit at the same distance, it would seem equally as bright :)

Here is a NASA article on landing on a comet

How to Land on a Comet

Not to go all B.C like, but this truly is some magnificent engineering.

it is. hope some good videos come out.

It s got that Rimmer Smoke me a kipper I’ll be back for breakfast appeal

sibeen said:

Not to go all B.C like, but this truly is some magnificent engineering.

The lander does have a resemblance to an old air conditioning unit.

Cymek said:

sibeen said:

Not to go all B.C like, but this truly is some magnificent engineering.

The lander does have a resemblance to an old air conditioning unit.

It’s about the size of a washing machine.

This is gonna be great

Next year should be exciting… Ceres and Pluto.

Yeh this is impressive stuff, and I don’t mind admitting I’ve got a bit of fanboy on

View a webcast of the landing tomorrow morning: “Rosetta #CometLanding webcast Event starts Wed Nov, 12 2014 6:00 AM AEDT”
http://rosetta.esa.int/

Countdown to separation
1 Day : 7 hours : 10 minutes.

Wont be long now.

Peak Warming Man said:

Countdown to separation
1 Day : 7 hours : 10 minutes.

Wont be long now.

I have separation anxiety already

Watched a pretty good documentary on this last night, lets hope all goes well.
Space exploration is one of those things were unless you are a jerk you wish anyone (even an enemy nation) the best of luck.

Dropbear said:

Peak Warming Man said:

Countdown to separation
1 Day : 7 hours : 10 minutes.

Wont be long now.

I have separation anxiety already

13 hour 36 min now
Some nice Rosetta photos on flickr

Slightly off topic but still with ESA. Napa Valley Quake Interferogram
European Space Agency
Napa Valley quake
The biggest earthquake in 25 years struck California’s Napa Valley in the early hours of 24 August 2014. By processing two Sentinel-1A images, which were acquired on 7 August and 31 August 2014 over this wine-producing region, an interferogram was generated. The two round shapes around Napa valley, which are visible in the central part of the image show how the ground moved during the quake. Deformation on the ground causes phase changes in radar signals that appear as the rainbow-coloured patterns. Each colour cycle corresponds to a deformation of 28 mm deformation. The maximum deformation is more than 10 cm, and an area of about 30×30 km was affected significantly.

The Sentinel spacecraft uses radar to map small changes in Earth Surface elevation.

mollwollfumble said:

View a webcast of the landing tomorrow morning: “Rosetta #CometLanding webcast Event starts Wed Nov, 12 2014 6:00 AM AEDT”
http://rosetta.esa.int/

If you didn’t get to see that start of this, dial up 15 minutes into the streaming feed to watch start of the real video – giving details about what is happening when, and more.

mollwollfumble said:

mollwollfumble said:

View a webcast of the landing tomorrow morning: “Rosetta #CometLanding webcast Event starts Wed Nov, 12 2014 6:00 AM AEDT”
http://rosetta.esa.int/

If you didn’t get to see that start of this, dial up 15 minutes into the streaming feed to watch start of the real video – giving details about what is happening when, and more.

Reverts to background music 45 minutes in.

Timing:
First “Go” has already happened
Second “Go” Midnight UTC (in about 2 hours, 11am here?)
Third “Go” 1:30 UTC
“Landing event starts” between 6 and 7 am UTC
Lander separation after 8:30 UTC
Landing after 15:40 UTC
First images from lander about 18:00 UTC.

mollwollfumble said:

Timing:
First “Go” has already happened
Second “Go” Midnight UTC (in about 2 hours, 11am here?)
Third “Go” 1:30 UTC
“Landing event starts” between 6 and 7 am UTC
Lander separation after 8:30 UTC
Landing after 15:40 UTC
First images from lander about 18:00 UTC.

Great stuff

>>First images from lander about 18:00 UTC

Probably be a blurry image of the crash site that flickers and then dies.

What’s that in east coast standard?

Carmen_Sandiego said:

What’s that in east coast standard?

Midnight UTC is 10:00 AM Australian Eastern Standard time or 11:00 AM Australian Daylight Saving time. The rest follow from that.

Carmen_Sandiego said:

What’s that in east coast standard?

AEST = UTC + 10

mollwollfumble said:

Timing:
First “Go” has already happened
Second “Go” Midnight UTC (in about 2 hours, 11am here?)
Third “Go” 1:30 UTC
“Landing event starts” between 6 and 7 am UTC
Lander separation after 8:30 UTC
Landing after 15:40 UTC
First images from lander about 18:00 UTC.

Second “Go” passed successfully, but an hours delay for third “Go”, so that will be 2:30 UTC, 1.30 PM in Victoria.

Interview with Joel W. Parker, the deputy principal investigator for an ultraviolet spectrograph instrument on the European Space Agency’s Rosetta spacecraft, which is orbiting Comet 67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko.

Q. Do you think the landing will succeed?

A. I do. I’m optimistic.

Q. Why bother landing on a comet? What do we hope to learn?

A. We have only observed comets from afar. Even the previous spacecraft flybys have been brief and could only study the comet by what they saw remotely. It is like the difference between what you can learn taking pictures from an airplane versus a geologist digging directly into the ground. We will learn about the chemical and physical properties of the surface. We will measure gases as they directly escape from the ground. We will pick up samples from the surface and put them in an oven to bake out and analyze the chemicals. We will learn the “ground truth” of how the chemicals we measure in the gas around the comet are related to the chemicals in the comet. I should also mention, it will take those samples from below the surface, so it will be able to see how the surface differs from deeper layers (up to about 23 centimeters, or a little more than nine inches, below the surface).

Q. Why haven’t we ever done this before?

A. There always has to be a first time: So this is the first time to land on a comet. It is incredibly difficult with the low gravity, the unknown surface, the motion of the comet and spacecraft, and the lack of an active control system to land (having that would have made the lander much heavier and more complex). Simply put: If it was easy, it would have been done already.

Q. When did this start to seem like a not-crazy or not-impossible feat?

A. To me, when Rosetta woke up after two and a half years of hibernation — nearly completely shut off and silent in the cold distances of the solar system. Not only was I pleased the spacecraft woke up, I’m impressed all of the instruments are working. Nobody woke up dead. That is when it really struck me: This nearly impossible feat may actually work!

Full interview: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/12/science/space/landing-on-a-comet-inside-rosetta-orbiters-philae-landing-mission.html?_r=0

I find this very exciting and interesting and kudos to the human race for undertaking such an endeavour. I wonder how many people besides sciency types would even care and claim its a waste of money

Rosetta mission: setback as landing probe fails to respond initially

A last-minute glitch in the 10-year mission of the Rosetta spacecraft has
ensured a nerve-shredding experience for scientists when they try to land it on
a comet.

Rosetta’s Philae landing module did not power up properly when its controllers
at the European Space Agency switched it on for the first time on Tuesday,
causing concern about whether it will work during the landing attempt.

Since it was launched in 2004, Rosetta has travelled four billion miles in its
quest to find out, among other things, whether comets could have sparked life on
Earth.

If all goes to plan, the Philae probe will detach from Rosetta at 9.03am on
Wednesday, with touchdown scheduled for 4.02pm.

Matt Taylor, a Rosetta project scientist, said: “We had a hiccup when we first
powered it up. There was a little bit of a delay with it coming online. We don’t
know what caused it and we are seeking to find out the cause.

“Obviously it’s a concern for the next step. But everything appears to be
working OK now so we’re keeping our fingers crossed.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/space/11223537/Rosetta-mission-setback-as-landing-probe-fails-to-respond-initially.html

Michael V said:

Carmen_Sandiego said:

What’s that in east coast standard?

AEST = UTC + 10

What time is that in Logan?

giggle

Dropbear said:

Michael V said:

Carmen_Sandiego said:

What’s that in east coast standard?

AEST = UTC + 10

What time is that in Logan?

1956

Dropbear said:

Michael V said:

Carmen_Sandiego said:

What’s that in east coast standard?

AEST = UTC + 10

What time is that in Logan?

He runs a lot

Live stream, nothing happening at this stage:

http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-watch-live-as-rosetta-sends-a-lander-to-a-comet-20141111-htmlstory.html

They haven’t even got a photo of the proposed crash site up on the screen yet, novices.

apparently the paste in the papier mache isn’t quite dry yet.

Bubblecar said:

Live stream, nothing happening at this stage:

http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-watch-live-as-rosetta-sends-a-lander-to-a-comet-20141111-htmlstory.html

This looks like a hillbilly turnout.
A couple of cheap ebay monitors, a bank of what look like low res train station displays and a 50 amp power cord going to one desk.

I don’t want to be alarmist or anything but this thing is going to crash, you know that don’t you, it’s going to CRASH.

Peak Warming Man said:

I don’t want to be alarmist or anything but this thing is going to crash, you know that don’t you, it’s going to CRASH.

A slow motion crash

at least it wont burn.

They’re playing Piano Bar type music in the background now, this is not looking good.

Peak Warming Man said:

They’re playing Piano Bar type music in the background now, this is not looking good.

They spotted a bunch of protestors on the comets landing site

> http://rosetta.esa.int/

Live coverage from now until the first pictures come back from the lander on the surface.

I think they realise they are on a wing and a prayer or as Skeptic Peat says they are on a wing.

Well one of those live feeds is bogus, if you start it, then stop, wait 5 and restart it carries on from where you stopped it.

Is there an actual live, happening now feed?

FMD, they have got some guy on in shorts and all his legs tattooed, this is definitely not looking good.

Please Lord don’t let them play the Benny Hill theme at separation.

There is a Geeky Woman there with glasses

Peak Warming Man said:

FMD, they have got some guy on in shorts and all his legs tattooed, this is definitely not looking good.

Which link are you using?

mollwollfumble said:

> http://rosetta.esa.int/

Live coverage from now until the first pictures come back from the lander on the surface.

This one.

It won’t be landing for many hours yet, you’re not missing much.

its showing a simulation at the moment

That chick in the purple top should be wearing a black mini dress, it would suit her

Bubblecar said:

It won’t be landing for many hours yet, you’re not missing much.

Yes but there is going to be an ejaculation in just over an hour, you don’t want to miss that.

We know if suddenly it switches to a repeat of the Eurovision song contest somethings go wrong

Cymek said:

We know if suddenly it switches to a repeat of the Eurovision song contest somethings go wrong

ABBA SOS

AwesomeO said:

Well one of those live feeds is bogus, if you start it, then stop, wait 5 and restart it carries on from where you stopped it.

Is there an actual live, happening now feed?

Click on the “live” button at the right hand end of the slider to see live. I thought it would continue with discussion, but it’s now back to people moving around the control room. To review the latest interviews and images look along the time slider from 11:46 to 12:43.

mollwollfumble said:

AwesomeO said:

Well one of those live feeds is bogus, if you start it, then stop, wait 5 and restart it carries on from where you stopped it.

Is there an actual live, happening now feed?

Click on the “live” button at the right hand end of the slider to see live. I thought it would continue with discussion, but it’s now back to people moving around the control room. To review the latest interviews and images look along the time slider from 11:46 to 12:43.

Cheers.

david can you send that email address to me? I’ve already lost the details

david_paterson@netspace.net.au

Are we there yet?

Peak Warming Man said:

mollwollfumble said:

> http://rosetta.esa.int/

Live coverage from now until the first pictures come back from the lander on the surface.

This one.

I suspect they’re getting ready to give us more info in a minute or two.

They use nominal as if it means normal.
In engineering nominal means it’s not set in stone.
A nominal dimension may change, it’s an approximation for now.

Did I hear separation?

mollwollfumble said:

Peak Warming Man said:

mollwollfumble said:

> http://rosetta.esa.int/

Live coverage from now until the first pictures come back from the lander on the surface.

This one.

I suspect they’re getting ready to give us more info in a minute or two.

Yep. Lander separated 2 1/2 minutes ago but we won’t be sure that it did until 26 minutes from now.

i have a dust grain named after me.

:-)

Instrument packages

Peak Warming Man said:

They use nominal as if it means normal.
In engineering nominal means it’s not set in stone.
A nominal dimension may change, it’s an approximation for now.

They’re French, you must excuse them.

I’m falling in love with the geeky woman wearing glasses who is standing up next to that guy wearing the suit

Separation?

Peak Warming Man said:

They use nominal as if it means normal.
In engineering nominal means it’s not set in stone.
A nominal dimension may change, it’s an approximation for now.

You’re right, as always, PWM.

Fuck me, it’s not rocket science!

CrazyNeutrino said:

I’m falling in love with the geeky woman wearing glasses who is standing up next to that guy wearing the suit

Separation?

Yeah, looks like they are post partum and one step closer to the crash.

Invasion day has begun

Separation worked. Lost connection with lander as expected.
In 2 hrs data from lander as it descends.
Then 6 1/2 hours landing.

Next update 10pm Victoria time.

mollwollfumble said:

Separation worked. Lost connection with lander as expected.
In 2 hrs data from lander as it descends.
Then 6 1/2 hours landing.

Next update 10pm Victoria time.

Ah good. I’ll be home by then.

Why does it lose connection?

there is radio

just a guess. there is a radio link between lander and orbiter. the orbiter sends the info to earth. they can’t test the connection between lander and orbiter while still attached. antennas not aligned, power levels too high that close…other. so they separate and then the systems come online, get tested, and the link is established.

JudgeMental said:

just a guess. there is a radio link between lander and orbiter. the orbiter sends the info to earth. they can’t test the connection between lander and orbiter while still attached. antennas not aligned, power levels too high that close…other. so they separate and then the systems come online, get tested, and the link is established.

Alternative guess, it passes behind the comet when viewed from Earth, alternatively they need time to get the high gain antenna pointed in the correct direction.

Or it has just crashed and burned.

it wont burn!!! no bloody oxygen in space.

JudgeMental said:

it wont burn!!! no bloody oxygen in space.

And no kindling.

JudgeMental said:

it wont burn!!! no bloody oxygen in space.

unless there’s oxidiser tanks

JudgeMental said:

it wont burn!!! no bloody oxygen in space.

Rocket fuels carry their own oxygen.

AwesomeO said:

JudgeMental said:

it wont burn!!! no bloody oxygen in space.

Rocket fuels carry their own oxygen.

oxidiser

no all carry oxygen. and i would say that the low grav environment means it might just be hydrozine thrusters.

JudgeMental said:

it wont burn!!! no bloody oxygen in space.

The comet is more than likely made from hydrogen, oxygen and other volatiles. It will be a disaster.

you need certain levels of oxidiser for stuff to burn

an oxidiser tank could split but the affects limited, there wouldn’t be much burning for very long unless the oxidiser is contained with the fuel

wookiemeister said:

you need certain levels of oxidiser for stuff to burn

an oxidiser tank could split but the affects limited, there wouldn’t be much burning for very long unless the oxidiser is contained with the fuel

effects

Electrical power for the spacecraft comes from two solar arrays totalling 64 square metres (690 sq ft). Main propulsion consists of 24 bipropellant 10 N thrusters. The spacecraft carried 1,670 kilograms (3,680 lb) of propellant at launch, composed of monomethylhydrazine fuel and dinitrogen tetroxide oxidiser, providing a maximum delta-v of 2,300 metres per second (7,500 ft/s). Four of the thrusters are used for delta-v burns.

rosetta engines.

most thrusters use chemicals that form a reaction on mixing. more reliable than trying to get a burn to happen.

i would imagine the thrusters on Philae would be the same. the shuttle used the same for attitude control.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrazine#Rocket_fuel

monopropellant so no mixing.

Wow that is pretty exciting!

Re-established contact with lander.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopropellant_rocket

Next live update 1 am Victoria time.

Landing confirmed!

Waiting for first images.

The harpoons apparently failed to fire:

Luckily, the probe’s sensors detected a soft landing. But mission control hasn’t gotten confirmation that the probe’s harpoons deployed — let alone that they stuck. The Rosetta team is concerned that the probe might roll out of place, but they’re considering re-firing the harpoons to try again. If the surface is too soft, it’s possible that the probe won’t be able to anchor itself at all — which would make it hard to stay upright. And if the team refires the harpoons, it’s possible that the probe will actually just get knocked into a bad position.

If Philae flips over, it has no way to right itself.

But even if the morning ends with disappointment, Rosetta has been — and will continue to be — a resounding success, researchers say.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2014/11/12/the-rosetta-comet-landing-is-mere-minutes-away-from-making-history/

They’re looking a bit glum in the control room but there’s been no news for some time. And no sound. Deep discussions with lots of hand gestures.

A woman is eating an apple.

Bubblecar said:

A woman is eating an apple.

Well, that’s it then. They might as well pack up and go home. The whole thing’s obviously failed.

Image of lander after separation:

22 minutes into feed from http://rosetta.esa.int/ have started to receive first images after separation. At that time one blurred good contrast and one sharp excessive contrast of whole comet. All working well on both orbiter and lander.

52 minutes into feed. – weird art thing.
1:01 into feed – new interviews.
I wish they wouldn’t keep sating “first ever attempt at landing on a comet”. It’s the second, Hayabusa was the first.
1:12 into feed – Einstein look-alike shows image of orbiter from lander.
1:29 into feed – recap of hugging moments.
Getting feed to Europe from Australia via Argentina.
1:47 into feed – image of lander (above).
1:52 into feed – discussions of other ESA missions.
1:57 into feed – image of Rosetta construction.
Going to take and analyse two soil samples “tomorrow”. Onboard heater up to 400 K. To measure hardness of soil to 1.5 to 2 metres deep. To sniff atmosphere after landing.
2:34 into feed looking worried.
3:00 into feed – hugs all around.

Still a lot of listless milling about & chatting. No pitchers from the surface yet.

General atmosphere seems to be indecision and disappointment. Head-scratching, arm-waving, glum faces.

Media briefing in about 8 minutes…

3:05 into feed – announcement that lander is on surface and talking to us, landing gear deployed.
Then speeches from politicians and heads of departments.
3:37 into feed – Landing unexpectedly gentle. Anchors did not shoot so not tied down to comet.
This could end up being a replay of Hayabusa, lander down then up then down. Fingers crossed.

Now, break for an hour, then first images from lander.

mollwollfumble said:

3:05 into feed – announcement that lander is on surface and talking to us, landing gear deployed.
Then speeches from politicians and heads of departments.
3:37 into feed – Landing unexpectedly gentle. Anchors did not shoot so not tied down to comet.
This could end up being a replay of Hayabusa, lander down then up then down. Fingers crossed.

Now, break for an hour, then first images from lander.

The washing machine has landed!

Still no briefing, 4 minutes late.

Now going…

Postponed for another 20 minutes.

We’re on…

First image will be presented.

ESA director reports that they landed on the right comet.

Data’s coming in, but the radio link is fluctuating. They think it may have landed twice (bounced and turned, then landed again).

And that’s it for now. The image presented was an approach image from 3 km.

Bubblecar said:

And that’s it for now. The image presented was an approach image from 3 km.

That’s this one, I think

Some images after touchdown.

It’s like a science fiction landscape from above

Let’s hope they’re anchored safe. By the sounds of it they’ve moved since landing

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-13/rosettas-philae-probe-touches-down-on-comets-surface/5887210

“Celestial mathematics”
“Launched in 2004… took more than a decade…” Are we not in 2014?

Also, when the comet loops around the sun next year, will Rosetta and Philae fry?

Discovered in 1969, Comet 67P (Churyumov-Gerasimenko) is a Jupiter family comet measuring 4.5km across. It has an orbital period of 6.5 years and its closest point to the Sun at perihelion is 1.2458 AU (186m kilometres). Although Comet 67P won’t be visible with the naked eye from Earth, the Rosetta Spacecraft will make sure it is seen around the world in unprecedented detail.

so it wont fry as such.

Bubblecar said:

But even if the morning ends with disappointment, Rosetta has been — and will continue to be — a resounding success, researchers say.

What an amazing feat. It would be wrong to consider it a failure now.

How fast was its maximum speed?

it’s doing about 18.36km/sec atm and heading towards perihelion so that will rise a bit.

That’s disturbing, I can no longer find the “after touchdown” images on the web.

mollwollfumble said:

That’s disturbing, I can no longer find the “after touchdown” images on the web.

Yes I am confused, Bubblecar posted some piccies after landing, but I cannot find them, but there are reports that they are having problems and seeming to say no after landing pictures available. On such basis conspiracy theories form.

It also has drills on its legs to help anchor it as well, they may not be effective if the surface is soft though.

Awesome

the harpoons didn’t fire or did something go wrong

it has a gas thruster so if they fire the harpoons again they might use the gas thruster to counter the harpoon firing

Im wondering if an ion engine thruster could keep an object on a surface of a comet?

an ion thruster would work. the thrusters on it now are pretty low power, 10n or less so i believe.

you don’t need much as the weight of the lander is only 2 grams.

JudgeMental said:

you don’t need much as the weight of the lander is only 2 grams.

??? According to the wiki page, the total mass of Philae is about 97kg. The table at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philae_(spacecraft)#Design lists the mass of the various components, all of which have mass >1kg.

mass doesn’t equal weight.

On the comet, it would weight significantly less.

mass = kilograms

weight = newtons.

The weight is effected by gravity.

JudgeMental said:

mass doesn’t equal weight.

True, but the units are different too. Perhaps you should use the right ones?

well i was just using the one that most are familiar with sorry. you still didn’t get it though.

JudgeMental said:

well i was just using the one that most are familiar with sorry. you still didn’t get it though.

You’re right, I don’t. The lander’s weight seems irrelevant in space, only its mass. The rocket equation makes no reference to weight, only mass. It’s true that the gravity of the comet means the weight of the lander is very small, but why is that relevant?

AwesomeO said:

Yes I am confused, Bubblecar posted some piccies after landing, but I cannot find them, but there are reports that they are having problems and seeming to say no after landing pictures available. On such basis conspiracy theories form.

No that was molly, and they must have been wrongly captioned because they were all snaps from the landing approach, not from the surface.

btm said:

JudgeMental said:

well i was just using the one that most are familiar with sorry. you still didn’t get it though.

You’re right, I don’t. The lander’s weight seems irrelevant in space, only its mass. The rocket equation makes no reference to weight, only mass. It’s true that the gravity of the comet means the weight of the lander is very small, but why is that relevant?

The low gravity means that, for instance, it would need very little thrust to “hover” in one place with respect to the comet.

because little nudges, the drills, firing the thrusters, unbalanced can cause a lot of trouble for conducting the experiments.

Fair enough. Thanks.

Next media briefing will be around midnight tonight our time.

T-minus 1 hour and counting until the next media briefing. Is Philae still in radio contact with humanity? Will there be surface pictures? Only time will tell.

Bubblecar said:

Next media briefing will be around midnight tonight our time.

Whereabouts on the web will I find this briefing?

http://rosetta.esa.int/

should have a live feed, time is shown at link.

JudgeMental said:

http://rosetta.esa.int/

should have a live feed, time is shown at link.

Ta.

They’re late again. Still waiting.

Here we go.

Hopefully it is just software fixes. One thing I have noticed in trawling for information, and a problem that will get worse, is it is harder to tell between what is real and which is cgi impressions.

Well, maybe not.

Now they’re replaying highlights again.

Bubblecar said:

Now they’re replaying highlights again.

I have found the site to be a bit unhelpful labelling stuff as live when it is recorded and a bad layout. Nasa does it much better.

Oh, this is quite amazing. I’ve not paid it much attention due to other things happening.
Thanks for the link, Boris.

so is what i’m watching atm live or have i just clicked something and gone back in time? it’s a guy with a mo speaking.

JudgeMental said:

so is what i’m watching atm live or have i just clicked something and gone back in time? it’s a guy with a mo speaking.

This is it, he’s showing some great images.

It’s brilliant that it’s landed upright, transmitting science, and good images, although a lot of it is in shadow. Much more processing to be done to bring out the detail. One of the lander’s feet is hanging over the “edge” and not resting on anything.

Bubblecar said:

It’s brilliant that it’s landed upright, transmitting science, and good images, although a lot of it is in shadow. Much more processing to be done to bring out the detail. One of the lander’s feet is hanging over the “edge” and not resting on anything.

It is transmitting images?

1m/s decent and a 1km bounce. :-)

AwesomeO said:

Bubblecar said:

It’s brilliant that it’s landed upright, transmitting science, and good images, although a lot of it is in shadow. Much more processing to be done to bring out the detail. One of the lander’s feet is hanging over the “edge” and not resting on anything.

It is transmitting images?

Yes, they’ve just shown a panorama of the landscape surrounding the lander. Briefing going here: http://rosetta.esa.int/

JudgeMental said:

1m/s decent and a 1km bounce. :-)

-

So this is rocket science?

Well done.

Bubblecar said:

AwesomeO said:

Bubblecar said:

It’s brilliant that it’s landed upright, transmitting science, and good images, although a lot of it is in shadow. Much more processing to be done to bring out the detail. One of the lander’s feet is hanging over the “edge” and not resting on anything.

It is transmitting images?

Yes, they’ve just shown a panorama of the landscape surrounding the lander. Briefing going here: http://rosetta.esa.int/

Will look in a sec, but yeah landing alone is brilliant, a 10 year dance, speeds up to 31 thousand kmh, moving through asteroid belts and planets, deaccelerating from 2 million km away to move into orbit, assessing landing spots and a successful landing. Bloody awesome.

Well Philae’s going to be doing science for as long as it can, but because of its final position it’s receiving far less sunlight for its batteries than they were hoping for. But it should be operational for some time and maybe even quite a long time. A fine result under the circumstances. Here’s one of the images from the surface, with one of the lander’s legs in view:

Spooky picture.

what do they think it is made of?

Nice detail, geologists would already be on the case. Again what an achievement. Not bad for an ape.

party_pants said:

Spooky picture.

what do they think it is made of?

Rock, dust, ice.

Bubblecar said:

party_pants said:

Spooky picture.

what do they think it is made of?

Rock, dust, ice.

Green cheese.

What are comets made of?
CO and azane, and dry ice and methane
That’s what little conets are made of.

Bubblecar said:

Well Philae’s going to be doing science for as long as it can, but because of its final position it’s receiving far less sunlight for its batteries than they were hoping for. But it should be operational for some time and maybe even quite a long time.

Pardon my just-woken-up ignorance, but isn’t the comet spinning, which would allow varying degrees of sunlight to reach the lander?

yes, but it isn’t in a clear spot so gets a lot more shadow time.

It bounced a kilometre high from a walking pace free fall. Amazing

party_pants said:

Spooky picture.

what do they think it is made of?

Snips and snails and puppy dogs tails

Tough audience.

They might use one the the instruments to push it off the surface, and what happens then is anybody’s guess

it should have been equipped with an ion thruster, that would have kept it at its original landing position

no doubt the next probe will have one

CrazyNeutrino said:

They might use one the the instruments to push it off the surface, and what happens then is anybody’s guess

it should have been equipped with an ion thruster, that would have kept it at its original landing position

no doubt the next probe will have one

yeh, what do those space agency numpties know anyway.

poikilotherm said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

They might use one the the instruments to push it off the surface, and what happens then is anybody’s guess

it should have been equipped with an ion thruster, that would have kept it at its original landing position

no doubt the next probe will have one

yeh, what do those space agency numpties know anyway.

Bloody engineers…useless!

Divine Angel said:

Bubblecar said:

Well Philae’s going to be doing science for as long as it can, but because of its final position it’s receiving far less sunlight for its batteries than they were hoping for. But it should be operational for some time and maybe even quite a long time.

Pardon my just-woken-up ignorance, but isn’t the comet spinning, which would allow varying degrees of sunlight to reach the lander?

It has a 12 hour rotational period.

It also has an unusual shape, and some areas are permanently in darkness or only illuminated for a brief time during the “day”.

Have you seen the conspiracy videos about how the entire mission is a cover for investigating aliens.
Supposedly 10 years ago an unknown signal was detected out in deep space and traced to the comet, they sent the mission under the guise of scientific discovery. The initial landing raw footage shows aliens buildings on the comet and they then retouched them out.

LOL

Divine Angel said:

LOL

I’d love for them to be true but conspiracy people give far too much capability to governments to carry out said conspiracies

sibeen said:

poikilotherm said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

They might use one the the instruments to push it off the surface, and what happens then is anybody’s guess

it should have been equipped with an ion thruster, that would have kept it at its original landing position

no doubt the next probe will have one

yeh, what do those space agency numpties know anyway.

Bloody engineers…useless!

Thats why it bumped back out into space for a kilometer and ended up way over there

it should have a had a miniature radar, and a mini calculator to work out its decent speed and slow itself down with a mini gas thruster, then an ion thruster keeps it on the surface until it can attached itself

CrazyNeutrino said:

sibeen said:

poikilotherm said:

yeh, what do those space agency numpties know anyway.

Bloody engineers…useless!

Thats why it bumped back out into space for a kilometer and ended up way over there

it should have a had a miniature radar, and a mini calculator to work out its decent speed and slow itself down with a mini gas thruster, then an ion thruster keeps it on the surface until it can attached itself

Or perhaps the anchor(s) fires when the lander is above the surface and winch it down, the problem I suppose it is doesn’t penetrate the surface and it knocks the lander away

It’s quite small, really, scarcely more than a Philae minion.

isn’t the lander named after the roman goddess of pastry?

dv said:

It’s quite small, really, scarcely more than a Philae minion.

Oh dear…

dv said:

It’s quite small, really, scarcely more than a Philae minion.

Gold flap

Large panoramic view of the terrain around the lander. This has undergone only initial processing, better images will be available later. Second image includes a graphic of the lander, showing its orientation.

mollwollfumble said:

Some images after touchdown.

Aha, the top image posted above was when the lander was still 40 metres above the comet. That explains why it’s different to more recent images.
The bottom image posted above can be seen to be a detailed blow-up of the one above it. Again, that’s why it differs from more recent images.

Where have the aliens been photoshopped out?

mollwollfumble said:

mollwollfumble said:

Some images after touchdown.
!https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B2Q81NwIgAED8Vl.jpg
!https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B2Q7tdNIMAAYbTe.jpg

Aha, the top image posted above was when the lander was still 40 metres above the comet. That explains why it’s different to more recent images.
The bottom image posted above can be seen to be a detailed blow-up of the one above it. Again, that’s why it differs from more recent images.

They’re also snaps of a different landing site – the actual chosen site (which Philae landed on, only to bounce off and not land again for two hours, in a completely different area).

mollwollfumble said:

mollwollfumble said:

Some images after touchdown.

Aha, the top image posted above was when the lander was still 40 metres above the comet. That explains why it’s different to more recent images.
The bottom image posted above can be seen to be a detailed blow-up of the one above it. Again, that’s why it differs from more recent images.

If those photos were taken from parts the WA mallee country, you would say the white bits were limestone. Now wouldn’t that get everyone excited if that were also the case there?

Bubblecar said:

mollwollfumble said:

mollwollfumble said:

Some images after touchdown.
!https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B2Q81NwIgAED8Vl.jpg
!https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B2Q7tdNIMAAYbTe.jpg

Aha, the top image posted above was when the lander was still 40 metres above the comet. That explains why it’s different to more recent images.
The bottom image posted above can be seen to be a detailed blow-up of the one above it. Again, that’s why it differs from more recent images.

They’re also snaps of a different landing site – the actual chosen site (which Philae landed on, only to bounce off and not land again for two hours, in a completely different area).

No wonder all the technicians went very quiet after the first landing. :)

Hello comet!

dv said:

Hello comet!

Hello joke!

I’ve just come to this thread. Hope this question hasn’t already been asked.

To achieve this feat, would the calculations have been based on Newtonian mechanics, or would Relativity Theory have been invoked?

newton would do. the speeds and strength of gravity wouldn’t need relativistic calcs.

JudgeMental said:

newton would do. the speeds and strength of gravity wouldn’t need relativistic calcs.

Communication satellites do.

unlikely. gps sats use both gravitational and speed dilation calcs. can’t see why comm would need to.

JudgeMental said:

newton would do. the speeds and strength of gravity wouldn’t need relativistic calcs.

Astonishing. The notion that this feat of shooting a mosquito in flight with a blowpipe from a distance of a couple of miles could be achieved on the basis of physical principles derived by a genius 300 years ago, strikes me as really amazing.

Newtonian physics seems more useful than Relativity. . Has anything useful been achieved using Relativity Theory? (Which couldn’t have been done with Newtonian mechanics.)

JudgeMental said:

newton would do. the speeds and strength of gravity wouldn’t need relativistic calcs.

I agree, unless they were going close to large bodies for orbital assists then relativistic effects would be white noise.

if you have high speeds, a good fraction of the speed of light, and high gravity fields, neutron stars, BH etc, then you need relativity. the reason GPS use relativity is that the sats are traveling faster than the earths rotation and are high than ground level. these two mean that the time signal will not correspond to surface time. the difference whilst small is enough to put you out in postion by hundreds of metres and growing as the difference grows.

http://www.metaresearch.org/cosmology/gps-relativity.asp

General Relativity (GR) predicts that clocks in a stronger gravitational field will tick at a slower rate. Special Relativity (SR) predicts that moving clocks will appear to tick slower than non-moving ones. Remarkably, these two effects cancel each other for clocks located at sea level anywhere on Earth. So if a hypothetical clock at Earth’s north or south pole is used as a reference, a clock at Earth’s equator would tick slower because of its relative speed due to Earth’s spin, but faster because of its greater distance from Earth’s center of mass due to the flattening of the Earth. Because Earth’s spin rate determines its shape, these two effects are not independent, and it is therefore not entirely coincidental that the effects exactly cancel. The cancellation is not general, however. Clocks at any altitude above sea level do tick faster than clocks at sea level; and clocks on rocket sleds do tick slower than stationary clocks.

For GPS satellites, GR predicts that the atomic clocks at GPS orbital altitudes will tick faster by about 45,900 ns/day because they are in a weaker gravitational field than atomic clocks on Earth’s surface. Special Relativity (SR) predicts that atomic clocks moving at GPS orbital speeds will tick slower by about 7,200 ns/day than stationary ground clocks. Rather than have clocks with such large rate differences, the satellite clocks are reset in rate before launch to compensate for these predicted effects. In practice, simply changing the international definition of the number of atomic transitions that constitute a one-second interval accomplishes this goal. Therefore, we observe the clocks running at their offset rates before launch. Then we observe the clocks running after launch and compare their rates with the predictions of relativity, both GR and SR combined. If the predictions are right, we should see the clocks run again at nearly the same rates as ground clocks, despite using an offset definition for the length of one second.

Tom Van Flandern has a bit of history and not all his stuff can be trusted.

JudgeMental said:

if you have high speeds, a good fraction of the speed of light, and high gravity fields, neutron stars, BH etc, then you need relativity. the reason GPS use relativity is that the sats are traveling faster than the earths rotation and are high than ground level. these two mean that the time signal will not correspond to surface time. the difference whilst small is enough to put you out in postion by hundreds of metres and growing as the difference grows.

When you’re using the speed of light as timing measurements, over just a 100km or so, then you need to take the effect of relativistic dilation into account

i like how you have to use both SR and GR to get it right.

so time for a photon must slow down even more if it passes through a gravitational field ?

no.

if time slows at light speed and if time slows in a gravitational field

yes.

the lorentz transformation doesn’t apply to photons.

so a photon approaching a mass doesn’t get faster but its time gets slower

something approaching at less than light speed speeds up as it is being accelerated towards the mass

but heres the thing

if as you move towards the speed of light your apparent mass increases relative to the rest of the universe, doesn’t your gravitational field cause other things to experience a slowing of time as you pass?

or anything that travels at c.

neither time nor speed for a photon changes. its frequency does.

relativistic mass increase is an out dated idea. your energy content increases.

I thought it was still in vogue

I had always been told as you approach c your apparent mass increases to the rest of the universe

so if you are radiating a bigger gravitational field then you must be making other things experience a slowing in time

if gravity is a wave

whats its frequency?

an increase in an objects energy content will result in an increase in the gravitational field of that object.

http://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/1ecpf9/does_increased_mass_at_high_speed_also_increase/

so two objects passing each other having increased gravitational fields would make the other’s time slow

if you had two people approach each other holding clocks

the gravitational field of person A would make person Bs clock slow because Person A’s gravitational field would make person B experience a strong gravitational field and vica versa

person A would see person Bs clock and see it was running slow and vica versa?

quite unknown to person A , he would have entered the gravitational field of person B and would have experienced time slowing

the closer the other person is as they pass the more the other person’s gravitational field slows the other persons time

the further the other person is from the other the less the gravitational field and hence the less the slowing of time due to the gravitational field?

if you are in a spaceship flying along you are creating an apparent mass and gravitational field in a small bubble around you, fields drop off rapidly?

person A would see person Bs clock and see it was running slow and vica versa?

i don’t think so as you measure the others clock by your clock, so if both are running slow by the same amount…

really though you can only compare clocks after the experiment. you would see no difference.

in your scenarios you can only compare the moving clocks with a “stationary” observer.

JudgeMental said:

person A would see person Bs clock and see it was running slow and vica versa?

i don’t think so as you measure the others clock by your clock, so if both are running slow by the same amount…

really though you can only compare clocks after the experiment. you would see no difference.

well I was thinking that the gravitational field from person A drops off fairly rapidly anyway likewise for B

you might only get any effect if the two people were passing close to each other anyway

how much you slow the other persons time is also relative to how far away from them you are I guess?

http://tokyo3.org/forums/holiday/?main=http%3A//tokyo3.org/forums/holiday/topics/5296/

Those clever Europeans:

Philae probe drills into comet, turns toward light

The spacecraft that landed on a comet performed two tricky maneuvers Friday, by drilling into the rocky surface and rotating itself to catch more sunlight.

The spacecraft that landed on a comet performed two tricky maneuvers Friday, by drilling into the rocky surface and rotating itself to catch more sunlight.

Both operations carried considerable risks, because they could have toppled the probe or push it out into the void. But without them the Philae lander that scored a historic first by touching down on a comet Wednesday risked skipping a key scientific experiment and running out of battery.

Scientists at the European Space Agency said the maneuvers appeared to have worked.

“My rotation was successful (35 degrees). Looks like a whole new comet from this angle,” read a message posted on the lander’s official Twitter account.

Earlier, the scientists tweeted: “First comet drilling is a fact!”

http://seattletimes.com/html/nationworld/2025020830_apxcometlanding.html

Bubblecar said:

Those clever Europeans:

Philae probe drills into comet, turns toward light

The spacecraft that landed on a comet performed two tricky maneuvers Friday, by drilling into the rocky surface and rotating itself to catch more sunlight.

The spacecraft that landed on a comet performed two tricky maneuvers Friday, by drilling into the rocky surface and rotating itself to catch more sunlight.

Both operations carried considerable risks, because they could have toppled the probe or push it out into the void. But without them the Philae lander that scored a historic first by touching down on a comet Wednesday risked skipping a key scientific experiment and running out of battery.

Scientists at the European Space Agency said the maneuvers appeared to have worked.

“My rotation was successful (35 degrees). Looks like a whole new comet from this angle,” read a message posted on the lander’s official Twitter account.

Earlier, the scientists tweeted: “First comet drilling is a fact!”

http://seattletimes.com/html/nationworld/2025020830_apxcometlanding.html

Top hole!

Sorry I should’ve posted this a couple of days ago.

A live feed, xkcd style.

I like what the ESA director said at the briefing: “We landed on the right comet.”

Bubblecar said:

I like what the ESA director said at the briefing: “We landed on the right comet.”

Start with the good news.

they are opening a refugee detention on a comet

We have learnt a lot from this

its landing decent speed needs to be much slower

so the original calculations for that need redoing

it obviously needs a ion thruster or something like it to keep it on the surface, so that needs to be incorporated into a new design

the surface tension/ stickiness aspect of the comets surface needs looking at for loose, icy, rocky, dusty materials and more ways for a lander to secure itself to the surface of a comet with little gravity

reminder about the lander bumping up a kilometer and settling down over to a not so favorable position

Maybe some soft crumple zone to prevent bounce?

maybe fire a rocket with a rope that ploughs into the comet to act like an anchor?

I think rocketry makes it too complicated … I mean there should be no need for it at these kind of low approach speeds. They just need to stop the bounce

if mining and science experiments is to take place on these comets then we really need to look at low gravity behavior a lot more closely

maybe the International space station could do some experiments on low gravity landings and bounce effect

and come up with some real calculations

guess work is not good enough when your pouring billions into a long term experiment

they did have stuff to stop the bounce. it just didn’t deploy.

JudgeMental said:

they did have stuff to stop the bounce. it just didn’t deploy.

an airbag?

JudgeMental said:

they did have stuff to stop the bounce. it just didn’t deploy.

So maybe what they need to focus on is making that shit deploy

bit hard doing gravity experiments in a micro grav environment like the ISS. i mean if you look at vids of the ISS you see stuff just floating about.

10 years in space can have unforeseen effects on stuff.

wookiemeister said:

maybe fire a rocket with a rope that ploughs into the comet to act like an anchor?

the rocket will need to first be detached from the probe, otherwise the firing will send the probe backwards

your in space

not on earth, so thinking has to be “in space with no gravity”

but yes that is similar to the harpoons the probe has

it is difficult to land on a comet

there is gravity in space.

:-)

JudgeMental said:

there is gravity in space.

:-)

Yes your right

depends where you are, and what else is around you

the comet has low gravity

but the lander still bounced a kilometer above its surface

I think the lander really needed an ion thruster

CN spacecraft equivalent

JudgeMental said:

CN spacecraft equivalent

what is wrong with my ideas?

wookiemeister said:

maybe fire a rocket with a rope that ploughs into the comet to act like an anchor?

Like a Harpoon thing?

Carmen_Sandiego said:

wookiemeister said:

maybe fire a rocket with a rope that ploughs into the comet to act like an anchor?

Like a Harpoon thing?

Which is what the probe has but failed to work

to have some value with your input you first need to know what has been actually done.

Anyway, good it is getting more sunlight now.

JudgeMental said:

CN spacecraft equivalent

I would prefer this

JudgeMental said:

to have some value with your input you first need to know what has been actually done.

Well there has only been one mission to a comet so far

a lot of thinking will follow for a second attempt

Carmen_Sandiego said:

wookiemeister said:

maybe fire a rocket with a rope that ploughs into the comet to act like an anchor?

Like a Harpoon thing?

yeah but from a tube so the exhaust just moves the harpoon itself

Carmen_Sandiego said:

wookiemeister said:

maybe fire a rocket with a rope that ploughs into the comet to act like an anchor?

Like a Harpoon thing?

yeah but from a tube so the exhaust just moves the harpoon itself

What’s the harpoon made from?

wookiemeister said:

Carmen_Sandiego said:

wookiemeister said:

maybe fire a rocket with a rope that ploughs into the comet to act like an anchor?

Like a Harpoon thing?

yeah but from a tube so the exhaust just moves the harpoon itself

the probe is fitted with a gas thruster to counter the harpoon firing

well I imagine that’s the case unless anyone wants to argue over it

CrazyNeutrino said:

wookiemeister said:

Carmen_Sandiego said:

Like a Harpoon thing?

yeah but from a tube so the exhaust just moves the harpoon itself

the probe is fitted with a gas thruster to counter the harpoon firing

well I imagine that’s the case unless anyone wants to argue over it

if the harpoon was mounted in a tube most of the gas would simply exit the end of the tube, no thruster required

and the thruster failed to work and they are far simpler than an ion thruster, so….

Just have a pole about five metres or so long sticking out from the bottom of the spacecraft. On the tip of the pole, have a sensor that when it contacts the surface of the asteroid fires off a small shaped charge and then a spike. Ditch the pole then winch the spacecraft down onto the surface to hold it down tight.

Or use magnets, but no-one knows how they work ….!

if you timed it right

the harpoon could fire just before contact and slow the lander

the lander was descending at 1m/s so would be a lot easier to have a thruster facing up, which they did, than to try and slow it any more. they had the right systems in place.

JudgeMental said:

and the thruster failed to work and they are far simpler than an ion thruster, so….

I did not say it was easy

I read that if you are in space and have a metal surface and another metal surface and push them together they will stick to each other like they were welded together

some weird effect of being in space

casimir force.

Perhaps we need a Puppy Thruster 3000

>its landing decent speed needs to be much slower

Actually the problem seems to have been that the first landing was too soft – they landed very gently on dust without enough force to activate the thruster & harpoons.

CrazyNeutrino said:

JudgeMental said:

and the thruster failed to work and they are far simpler than an ion thruster, so….

I did not say it was easy

I read that if you are in space and have a metal surface and another metal surface and push them together they will stick to each other like they were welded together

some weird effect of being in space

satellites use ion thruster up in space but they tend to use them often

I guess part of the problem is testing them now and then, when they are not in use for long periods of time, as in deploying on a lengthy space mission

this is another experiment the International space station could do

or van der waals force.

Divine Angel said:

Perhaps we need a Puppy Thruster 3000

Too much bouncing

Bubblecar said:

>its landing decent speed needs to be much slower

Actually the problem seems to have been that the first landing was too soft – they landed very gently on dust without enough force to activate the thruster & harpoons.

ok so they need really really finely tuned sensors

something else the space station could experiment with

>>-Or use magnets, but no-one knows how they work………!

Well that’s right, magnetism is closely related to water divining and we don’t know how that works either.

Peak Warming Man said:

>>-Or use magnets, but no-one knows how they work………!

Well that’s right, magnetism is closely related to water divining and we don’t know how that works either.

Where you bin PWM? You missed all the excitement.

I’ve bee out of contact with the world, what’s the latest from the crash site?

I can’t wait to read PWM’s Secrets of the Universe tome.

Peak Warming Man said:

I’ve bee out of contact with the world, what’s the latest from the crash site?

G20 is going ahead smoothly, we don’t know if Dropbear has been arrested over the Putin demonstration this morning.

Oh, you’re talking the comet thing

Peak Warming Man said:

I’ve bee out of contact with the world, what’s the latest from the crash site?

They’ve managed to do the first drilling and rotated Philae enough to receive more sunlight.

I’ve been waiting a long time for someone to do some series study on the effects of reduced gravity (but not microgravity) on human physiology.

dv said:

I’ve been waiting a long time for someone to do some series study on the effects of reduced gravity (but not microgravity) on human physiology.

Guess you’ll be waiting until someone lands on Mars then.

Spiny Norman said:

dv said:

I’ve been waiting a long time for someone to do some series study on the effects of reduced gravity (but not microgravity) on human physiology.

Guess you’ll be waiting until someone lands on Mars then.

Well actually I was thinking it should be done before they go to Mars…

dv said:

Spiny Norman said:

dv said:

I’ve been waiting a long time for someone to do some series study on the effects of reduced gravity (but not microgravity) on human physiology.

Guess you’ll be waiting until someone lands on Mars then.

Well actually I was thinking it should be done before they go to Mars…

How?
Unless someone either builds a base on the Moon or has a large space station in orbit with centrifugal force for artificial gravity.

Spiny Norman said:

dv said:

Spiny Norman said:

Guess you’ll be waiting until someone lands on Mars then.

Well actually I was thinking it should be done before they go to Mars…

How?
Unless someone either builds a base on the Moon or has a large space station in orbit with centrifugal force for artificial gravity.

Moon is cheaper.

Spiny Norman said:

dv said:

Spiny Norman said:

Guess you’ll be waiting until someone lands on Mars then.

Well actually I was thinking it should be done before they go to Mars…

How?
Unless someone either builds a base on the Moon or has a large space station in orbit with centrifugal force for artificial gravity.

Doesn’t necessarily be that large a spaceship. The radial arm can be extended using ballast on a long cable.

—————————————————————————————-o

>>we don’t know if Dropbear has been arrested over the Putin demonstration this morning.

I’m not bailing him out again, I’m sick of it.

dv said:

Spiny Norman said:

dv said:

Well actually I was thinking it should be done before they go to Mars…

How?
Unless someone either builds a base on the Moon or has a large space station in orbit with centrifugal force for artificial gravity.

Doesn’t necessarily be that large a spaceship. The radial arm can be extended using ballast on a long cable.

—————————————————————————————-o

Yeah ….. but I really want Wookie’s opinion thank you very much.

But yes it would require them to build something.

dv said:

But yes it would require them to build something.

Pedant.

would look more like a pendant

So what’s it’s present status?
Over.

Peak Warming Man said:

So what’s it’s present status?
Over.

As I reported:

Peak Warming Man said:
I’ve bee out of contact with the world, what’s the latest from the crash site?

They’ve managed to do the first drilling and rotated Philae enough to receive more sunlight.

Bubblecar said:

Peak Warming Man said:

So what’s it’s present status?
Over.

As I reported:

Peak Warming Man said:
I’ve bee out of contact with the world, what’s the latest from the crash site?

They’ve managed to do the first drilling and rotated Philae enough to receive more sunlight.

Copy that.
Over and out.

But wait, here’s an update:

→Our lander’s asleep

With its batteries depleted and not enough sunlight available to recharge, Philae has fallen into ‘idle mode’ for a potentially long silence. In this mode, all instruments and most systems on board are shut down.

“Prior to falling silent, the lander was able to transmit all science data gathered during the First Science Sequence,” says DLR’s Stephan Ulamec, Lander Manager, who was in the Main Control Room at ESOC tonight.

“This machine performed magnificently under tough conditions, and we can be fully proud of the incredible scientific success Philae has delivered.”

ESA_Rosetta_Philae_CIVA_FirstPanoramic_woLanderContact was lost at 00:36 UTC / 01:36 CET, not long before the scheduled communication loss that would have happened anyway as Rosetta orbited below the horizon.

From now on, no contact would be possible unless sufficient sunlight falls on the solar panels to generate enough power to wake it up.

The possibility that this may happen was boosted this evening when mission controllers sent commands to rotate the lander’s main body, to which the solar panels are fixed. This may have exposed more panel area to sunlight.

The next possible communication slot begins on 15 November at about 10:00 UTC / 11:00 CET. The orbiter will listen for a signal, and will continue doing so when its orbit enables communication visibility in the future.

The hugely successful Rosetta mission will continue, as the spacecraft tracks comet 67P/C-G on its journey to the Sun. Rosetta is the first spacecraft to rendezvous with and orbit a comet and has already returned incredible scientific data

CrazyNeutrino said:

Divine Angel said:

Perhaps we need a Puppy Thruster 3000

Too much bouncing

too many puppies , not enough thruster

Spiny Norman said:

dv said:

Spiny Norman said:

Guess you’ll be waiting until someone lands on Mars then.

Well actually I was thinking it should be done before they go to Mars…

How?
Unless someone either builds a base on the Moon or has a large space station in orbit with centrifugal force for artificial gravity.

don’t go to mars, go to venus, no need to have anything spinning, its got the same gravity as earth give or take

Spiny Norman said:

dv said:

Spiny Norman said:

Guess you’ll be waiting until someone lands on Mars then.

Well actually I was thinking it should be done before they go to Mars…

How?
Unless someone either builds a base on the Moon or has a large space station in orbit with centrifugal force for artificial gravity.

don’t go to mars, go to venus, no need to have anything spinning, its got the same gravity as earth give or take

dv said:

Spiny Norman said:

dv said:

Well actually I was thinking it should be done before they go to Mars…

How?
Unless someone either builds a base on the Moon or has a large space station in orbit with centrifugal force for artificial gravity.

Doesn’t necessarily be that large a spaceship. The radial arm can be extended using ballast on a long cable.

—————————————————————————————-o

a French satellite had a balancing arm neatly cut in two by space junk

Bubblecar said:

Peak Warming Man said:

So what’s it’s present status?
Over.

As I reported:

Peak Warming Man said:
I’ve bee out of contact with the world, what’s the latest from the crash site?

They’ve managed to do the first drilling and rotated Philae enough to receive more sunlight.

I hope they don’t release the space spiders from their prison

ALL THE NAYSAYERS CAN GO OVER THERE

WRITE ON THE BACKBOARD A THOUSAND TIMES

I WILL NOT NAY SAY, I WILL NOT NAY SAY

Robotic spacecraft Philae shut down on Saturday after radioing results of its first and probably last batch of scientific experiments from the surface of a comet, scientists say.

Batteries aboard the European Space Agency’s (ESA) comet lander drained, shutting down the washing machine-sized probe after an adventurous and largely unscripted 57-hour mission.

More at link

I thought they moved it into more light?

ok

I will write on the blackboard a thousand times

Philae spotted after first landing on 67P

The Rosetta spacecraft spotted Philae and its shadow shortly after the lander touched down on Comet 67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko and bounced up again. The first image is taken on Nov. 12, 2014 at 10:30 a.m. EDT (3:30 p.m. UTC) and the second five minutes later. Credit: SA/Rosetta/NAVCAM; pre-processed by Mikel Canania

Universe Today

JudgeMental said:

The Rosetta spacecraft spotted Philae and its shadow shortly after the lander touched down on Comet 67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko and bounced up again. The first image is taken on Nov. 12, 2014 at 10:30 a.m. EDT (3:30 p.m. UTC) and the second five minutes later. Credit: SA/Rosetta/NAVCAM; pre-processed by Mikel Canania

Universe Today

What’s the big red circle?

Carmen_Sandiego said:

JudgeMental said:

The Rosetta spacecraft spotted Philae and its shadow shortly after the lander touched down on Comet 67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko and bounced up again. The first image is taken on Nov. 12, 2014 at 10:30 a.m. EDT (3:30 p.m. UTC) and the second five minutes later. Credit: SA/Rosetta/NAVCAM; pre-processed by Mikel Canania

Universe Today

What’s the big red circle?

Dust cloud where it first hit.

yes, it a pic of it mid bounce.

JudgeMental said:

yes, it a pic of it mid bounce.

cool – that explains it :)

here is some good news

Scientists ‘confident’ comet lander will wake up in spring

BERLIN (AP) — A burst of sunshine in the spring could be just the wakeup call for Europe’s comet lander.

Scientists raised hopes Monday that as the Philae lander nears the sun its solar panel-powered battery will recharge, and the first spacecraft to touch down on a comet will send a second round of scientific data back to Earth.

Since landing with a bounce on the comet Wednesday, Philae has already sent back reams of data that scientists are eagerly examining. But there were fears its mission would be cut short because it came to rest in the shadow of a cliff. Its signal went silent Saturday after its primary battery ran out.

Shortly before that happened, the European Space Agency decided to attempt to tilt the lander’s biggest solar panel toward the sun — a last-ditch maneuver that scientists believe may have paid off.

“We are very confident at some stage it will wake up again and we can achieve contact,” Stephan Ulamec, the lander manager, told The Associated Press.

more…

High-res views from Rosetta, showing Philae’s journey across the comet towards the first bounce site, then exiting stage right:

don’t know whether to call it lucky or unlucky.

Bubblecar said:

High-res views from Rosetta, showing Philae’s journey across the comet towards the first bounce site, then exiting stage right:

!http://www.esa.int/var/esa/storage/images/esa_multimedia/images/2014/11/osiris_spots_philae_drifting_across_the_comet/15058700-1-eng-GB/OSIRIS_spots_Philae_drifting_across_the_comet.jpg

Wow!

Awesomely amazing!

:)

Gosh, I hope it gets sufficient sunlight later in the comet’s journey to recharge batteries and continue the mission.

Philae comet probe ‘sniffed’ organic molecules before shutting down, scientists say

Initial test results from comet robot lab Philae showed traces of organic molecules and a surface much harder than imagined, scientists said.

more:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-19/philae-comet-probe-sniffed-organic-molecules/5901628

I hope they release more details on those organics.

dv said:

I hope they release more details on those organics.

Me too.

Still, at least ESA give regular releases, not like CNSA.

Reporter: What did we learn from the isotope ratio tests performed by Chang’e 3?

CNSA: Too many questions, why you ask questions? You go now.

Do you know whether the experiment can distinguish between l- and d- forms of complex molecules?

Haven’t checked but I doubt it. Chirality can’t be determined from spectra.

Hmm, trying to access a story about Rosetta discovering the comet is actually an alien probe and its crashed twice, conspiracy confirmed

Explainer: What Philae did in its 60 hours on Comet 67P
November 19, 2014 – 12:00AM
Mark Lorch

The drama of Philae’s slow fall, bounce and unfortunate slide into hibernation was one of the most thrilling science stories of a generation. But what in its short 60 hours of life on Comet 67P did it achieve?

The short answer is analytical chemistry.

Read more:

http://www.smh.com.au/national/explainer-what-philae-did-in-its-60-hours-on-comet-67p-20141118-11omv8.html#ixzz3JV9C1RSk

Dessert:

Local chocolate.
Local Licorice
Local dried dried mango
Local dried Black Sapote

Witty Rejoinder said:

Explainer: What Philae did in its 60 hours on Comet 67P
November 19, 2014 – 12:00AM
Mark Lorch

The drama of Philae’s slow fall, bounce and unfortunate slide into hibernation was one of the most thrilling science stories of a generation. But what in its short 60 hours of life on Comet 67P did it achieve?

The short answer is analytical chemistry.

Read more:

http://www.smh.com.au/national/explainer-what-philae-did-in-its-60-hours-on-comet-67p-20141118-11omv8.html#ixzz3JV9C1RSk

the thing has gone belly up already?

maybe they should go in slower – next time?

or send two

wookiemeister said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Explainer: What Philae did in its 60 hours on Comet 67P
November 19, 2014 – 12:00AM
Mark Lorch

The drama of Philae’s slow fall, bounce and unfortunate slide into hibernation was one of the most thrilling science stories of a generation. But what in its short 60 hours of life on Comet 67P did it achieve?

The short answer is analytical chemistry.

Read more:

http://www.smh.com.au/national/explainer-what-philae-did-in-its-60-hours-on-comet-67p-20141118-11omv8.html#ixzz3JV9C1RSk

the thing has gone belly up already?

No no, it’s just resting.
Beautiful solar panels.

Philae Lander Early Science Results: Ice, Organic Molecules and Half a Foot of Dust