http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/russia-sends-warships-towards-australia-before-g20-meeting-20141112-11lc4z.html

So what?

If they request a port visit, then we should approve it without too many problems.

This is a media beatup, pure & simple.

I knew this day would come

and would listen to me?

no

I propose we fortify bare island immediately

wookiemeister said:

I knew this day would come

and would listen to me?

no

I don’t recall you saying Russia would invade SEQ.

Witty Rejoinder said:

wookiemeister said:

I knew this day would come

and would listen to me?

no

I don’t recall you saying Russia would invade SEQ.

oh I’m sure I might have , its highly possible even in the absence of any proof

Witty Rejoinder said:

wookiemeister said:

I knew this day would come

and would listen to me?

no

I don’t recall you saying Russia would invade SEQ.

oh I’m sure I might have , its highly possible even in the absence of any proof

I can see a repeat of the Harold Holt mystery.

probably a submarine getting around too.

transition said:

probably a submarine getting around too.

Everyone stay out of the water, that will fool them.

imagine if a huge Russian submarine aircraft carrier suddenly appeared off Sydney

could you imagine the chaos that would break out in the domain section of the Sydney morning herald?

transition said:

probably a submarine getting around too.

With an American one following it.

AwesomeO said:

transition said:

probably a submarine getting around too.

With an American one following it.

with a Russian one following that

wookiemeister said:

could you imagine the chaos that would break out in the domain section of the Sydney morning herald?

The property section? Do you envisage panicked selling by scared Sydneysiders?

Witty Rejoinder said:

wookiemeister said:

could you imagine the chaos that would break out in the domain section of the Sydney morning herald?

The property section? Do you envisage panicked selling by scared Sydneysiders?

its happened before

wookiemeister said:

AwesomeO said:

transition said:

probably a submarine getting around too.

With an American one following it.

with a Russian one following that

I don’t think they can, american subs are magnitudes more capable.

property beyond the blue mountains surges in value

you could make supergun emplacements in the blue mountains to maintain the value of the real estate in sydney

FFS – they are a friendly nation at this time. They are in international waters. It consists of two warships and two support craft.

WTF is threatening about that?

Obviousman said:

FFS – they are a friendly nation at this time. They are in international waters. It consists of two warships and two support craft.

WTF is threatening about that?

Nothing at all. I was referring to a long standing U.S. policy that every soviet sub would be trailed by an American one. I do not know if that policy has been extended to russian subs.

I saw it mentioned today and thought someone was joking

in the grand scheme of thinks two boats doesn’t mean very much

they might just be listening in on our radio traffic trying to break it

wookiemeister said:

I saw it mentioned today and thought someone was joking

in the grand scheme of thinks two boats doesn’t mean very much

they might just be listening in on our radio traffic trying to break it

Perhaps they’re worried we will launch a surprise attack on Russia.

Australia only works overseas if it has the backing of the americans beyond a few islands off our coast the Australian has little to no reach or capability if working alone

ANZUS is basically an insurance in the face of having no capability – we commit troops to doomed campaigns – they protect us if we get attacked

wookiemeister said:

Australia only works overseas if it has the backing of the americans beyond a few islands off our coast the Australian has little to no reach or capability if working alone

ANZUS is basically an insurance in the face of having no capability – we commit troops to doomed campaigns – they protect us if we get attacked

Ahhh no, anzus is a commitment to consult.

wookiemeister said:

Australia only works overseas if it has the backing of the americans beyond a few islands off our coast the Australian has little to no reach or capability if working alone

You have no idea. Seriously.

The Gruaniad d=says they are off Bouganville, that’s about 2000 km away from the G20. They might be able to get to SEQ by the time everyone has left.

You have no idea. Seriously.

been saying that about him for years. though usually less polite.

Obviousman said:

wookiemeister said:

Australia only works overseas if it has the backing of the americans beyond a few islands off our coast the Australian has little to no reach or capability if working alone

You have no idea. Seriously.

oh I have an idea, it just goes what the propaganda tells you

people in the military are brainwashed into believing a cocktail of lies too

the fact is Australia as a military force on its own in a foreign country would be cut to pieces or fighting a naval battle elsewhere

when you look at military history great power have lost incredible tonnage, Australian naval capacity would reduce to zero in a serious conflict very quickly, no doubt various sea skimming missiles would vaporise what we would have

don’t worry abbott will “stop the boats”.

JudgeMental said:

don’t worry abbott will “stop the boats”.

Gold!

JudgeMental said:

You have no idea. Seriously.

been saying that about him for years. though usually less polite.

there are three types of people here

those that tell me to fuck off

those that tolerate me

and those that refuse to acknowledge me at all

people can go through these phases within hours

i just see you as a narcissistic little dick.

JudgeMental said:

i just see you as a narcissistic little dick.

tips hat

wookiemeister said:

JudgeMental said:

You have no idea. Seriously.

been saying that about him for years. though usually less polite.

there are three types of people here

those that tell me to fuck off

those that tolerate me

and those that refuse to acknowledge me at all

people can go through these phases within hours

What are you doing here anyway, I thought I heard reports of you on the radio being arrested in Brisbane for throwing pot plants at the police.

party_pants said:

wookiemeister said:

JudgeMental said:

You have no idea. Seriously.

been saying that about him for years. though usually less polite.

there are three types of people here

those that tell me to fuck off

those that tolerate me

and those that refuse to acknowledge me at all

people can go through these phases within hours

What are you doing here anyway, I thought I heard reports of you on the radio being arrested in Brisbane for throwing pot plants at the police.

Why waste good pot plants ?

party_pants said:

wookiemeister said:

JudgeMental said:

You have no idea. Seriously.

been saying that about him for years. though usually less polite.

there are three types of people here

those that tell me to fuck off

those that tolerate me

and those that refuse to acknowledge me at all

people can go through these phases within hours

What are you doing here anyway, I thought I heard reports of you on the radio being arrested in Brisbane for throwing pot plants at the police.

unlikely you can make a fortune selling them to the government – in the department of education they are virtually a black market currency

pommiejohn said:

The Gruaniad d=says they are off Bouganville, that’s about 2000 km away from the G20. They might be able to get to SEQ by the time everyone has left.

About 36 hours.

At the APEC meeting in 2009 the Russian navy docked for a visit.
When Medvedev visited SF in 2010 the navy docked.

It seems to me that the unfriendliness of the ship’s presence is not that they are so close but rather that they won’t come much closer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6U9T3R3EQg

Protect & Survive – 1970’s UK Public infommercials On Nuclear War Preparation

MartinB said:

At the APEC meeting in 2009 the Russian navy docked for a visit.
When Medvedev visited SF in 2010 the navy docked.

It seems to me that the unfriendliness of the ship’s presence is not that they are so close but rather that they won’t come much closer.

They don’t want to be shirt fronted.

sibeen said:

MartinB said:

At the APEC meeting in 2009 the Russian navy docked for a visit.
When Medvedev visited SF in 2010 the navy docked.

It seems to me that the unfriendliness of the ship’s presence is not that they are so close but rather that they won’t come much closer.

They don’t want to be shirt fronted.

I appreciate the humour in the reply but one suspects that neither Putin nor anyone in the Russian navy give two s@&$s about Abbott’s bravado.

strictly speaking , if you are in the city when it comes under nuclear attack, its curtains

cities would be attacked by more than one device, obviously multiple aerial detonation around a cities limits with possibly one in the centre

you get hit from all angles, the city becomes a kill zone.

nuclear weapons are designed for maximum kill rate rather than inflicting physical damage per se.

ICBMs are the preferred method of delivery

MartinB said:

sibeen said:

MartinB said:

At the APEC meeting in 2009 the Russian navy docked for a visit.
When Medvedev visited SF in 2010 the navy docked.

It seems to me that the unfriendliness of the ship’s presence is not that they are so close but rather that they won’t come much closer.

They don’t want to be shirt fronted.

I appreciate the humour in the reply but one suspects that neither Putin nor anyone in the Russian navy give two s@&$s about Abbott’s bravado.

That’s the problem. If anyone gave two shits about Abbott, he’d be looking for unemployment benefits.

the most effective launch pad being a submarine virtually undetectable under good command and engineering

its why the british still maintain their fleet with nuclear missiles

if Britain suffers an attack from say the middle east or any other place its commanders would no doubt receive the order to attack at a preset time

the retaliatory strike would do some damage – no doubt targets would have been weighed up for maximum effect

using nuclear weapons its a matter of in for a penny , in for a pound, if you are going to use them you make sure maximum effect is meted out

Will they be picking up asylum seekers on the way, and releasing them off Brisbane in orange life boats with just enough fuel to get to shore?

party_pants said:

Will they be picking up asylum seekers on the way, and releasing them off Brisbane in orange life boats with just enough fuel to get to shore?

do you remember my old idea of asylum seekers over whelming the navy by sheer numbers?

if they were co ordinated tens of thousands of asylum seekers could land virtually unopposed

the navy would be overwhelmed

you could create large swarms of seekers that slowly gather force and momentum on the high seas, the slow chug chugging of leaky boats rising to a crescendo on the moonlit oceans destination : australia

Good chance to surface a Collins class sub undetected in the middle of the Russian formation

Jesus Christ you talk a complete load of shit most times, Wookie.

Dropbear said:

Jesus Christ you talk a complete load of shit most times, Wookie.

I bet you never were any good at creative writing at school?

wookiemeister said:

I propose we fortify bare island immediately

The Ark is already waiting there for Big Brother. Seems Putin has been planning this for a while.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bare_Island_(New_South_Wales)

Australian airforce.

By roughbarked.

Dropbear said:

Jesus Christ you talk a complete load of shit most times, Wookie.

You may talk a load of complete shit at times Wookie, but no one can say you lack imagination.

we can cos it’s the same shit over and over.

wookiemeister said:

Dropbear said:

Jesus Christ you talk a complete load of shit most times, Wookie.

I bet you never were any good at creative writing at school?

There’s nothing creative about this BS

Dropbear said:

wookiemeister said:

Dropbear said:

Jesus Christ you talk a complete load of shit most times, Wookie.

I bet you never were any good at creative writing at school?

There’s nothing creative about this BS

the slow chug chugging of leaky boats rising to a crescendo on the moonlit oceans

I’m know my English teacher would have been impressed with that bit :)

Speedy said:

Dropbear said:

wookiemeister said:

I bet you never were any good at creative writing at school?

There’s nothing creative about this BS

the slow chug chugging of leaky boats rising to a crescendo on the moonlit oceans

I’m know my English teacher would have been impressed with that bit :)

I think that when you write hyperbole you need to harness more well known typed of writing , you go full 180 and present the whole thing in a romantic light

wookiemeister said:

Speedy said:

Dropbear said:

There’s nothing creative about this BS

the slow chug chugging of leaky boats rising to a crescendo on the moonlit oceans

I’m know my English teacher would have been impressed with that bit :)

I think that when you write hyperbole you need to harness more well known typed of writing , you go full 180 and present the whole thing in a romantic light

Drop bear probably hated his English teacher

As for me I was only good for studying literature , thinking about the way the English was structured and good string along some kind of creative thought in a structured whimsical – stuff completely absent in the way try teach English and test for it now.

English taught for quite some time on the back of the new wave of educational thought has catere to the dry, brittle form of “ 50 shades of grey” or similar guff that resembles a soap opera script.

The iPhone is making a hash of what I’m writing

Slowly came the armada of ramshackle boats rising on the ocean most bathed in the fortune of the rising sun.

Australia has a number of naval vessels being built at the moment, not that we want to find out but I wonder how capable we’d be if a large scale navel engagement took place against an enemy with superior numbers

Cymek said:

Australia has a number of naval vessels being built at the moment, not that we want to find out but I wonder how capable we’d be if a large scale navel engagement took place against an enemy with superior numbers

Most likely fucked

The Australian navy would be met with a blizzard of sea skimming missiles and other weapons erupting along the sides of the ships like Chinese fire crackers

wookiemeister said:

Cymek said:

Australia has a number of naval vessels being built at the moment, not that we want to find out but I wonder how capable we’d be if a large scale navel engagement took place against an enemy with superior numbers

Most likely fucked

The Australian navy would be met with a blizzard of sea skimming missiles and other weapons erupting along the sides of the ships like Chinese fire crackers

What is a worry is that we don’t have the capacity to make any weapons of war, if we became isolated we’d be in real trouble

Capability plus intent equals threat.

we have some subs

wookiemeister said:

wookiemeister said:

Speedy said:

the slow chug chugging of leaky boats rising to a crescendo on the moonlit oceans

I’m know my English teacher would have been impressed with that bit :)

I think that when you write hyperbole you need to harness more well known typed of writing , you go full 180 and present the whole thing in a romantic light

Drop bear probably hated his English teacher

Dropbear would accuse you of using hyperbowl

I don’t think there is any controversy that if a major power decided to take us on, without allies we would be a lot of trouble. If you want to become self sufficient in defence you need to spend the money and that ain’t going to happen when the capability and intent environment is benign.

Its a pity Ethel Murmen is dead then we could at least jam their radar if we had her on our warships

AwesomeO said:

I don’t think there is any controversy that if a major power decided to take us on, without allies we would be a lot of trouble.

Did you mean “in” a lot of trouble?

talking of jamming radar

whilst watching “the battle of the beams”, it mentioned chaff I’m sure

well the chaff wasn;t just any old bit of aluminium sheet, it was cut to an exact length so it acted like a perfect aerial, reflector for the wavelength used by german radar

with some spare time on my hands I decided to cut off the security tag on my jacket I had and open it up

I was expecting to see some sophisticated chip – it had some bits of aluminium strip of a certain length

I wondered if the length of the strip acted like an aerial for some store security device, that is a wavelength was sent out and the tag with the perfect aerial spoke back?

wookiemeister said:

talking of jamming radar

whilst watching “the battle of the beams”, it mentioned chaff I’m sure

well the chaff wasn;t just any old bit of aluminium sheet, it was cut to an exact length so it acted like a perfect aerial, reflector for the wavelength used by german radar

with some spare time on my hands I decided to cut off the security tag on my jacket I had and open it up

I was expecting to see some sophisticated chip – it had some bits of aluminium strip of a certain length

I wondered if the length of the strip acted like an aerial for some store security device, that is a wavelength was sent out and the tag with the perfect aerial spoke back?

How did you get a store security device?

Obviousman said:

wookiemeister said:

talking of jamming radar

whilst watching “the battle of the beams”, it mentioned chaff I’m sure

well the chaff wasn;t just any old bit of aluminium sheet, it was cut to an exact length so it acted like a perfect aerial, reflector for the wavelength used by german radar

with some spare time on my hands I decided to cut off the security tag on my jacket I had and open it up

I was expecting to see some sophisticated chip – it had some bits of aluminium strip of a certain length

I wondered if the length of the strip acted like an aerial for some store security device, that is a wavelength was sent out and the tag with the perfect aerial spoke back?

How did you get a store security device?

it was sewn onto the garment next to the washing details tag

Did you steal the item? For arguments sake, not like you were admitting any wrongdoing or anything like that.

apparently the way to defeat all of these kinds of security measures is to have a “boost bag” an al foil lined bag that blocks radio signals

you put the device in the bag

Obviousman said:

Did you steal the item? For arguments sake, not like you were admitting any wrongdoing or anything like that.

no it was on sale at katmandu

Books sometimes have little antennas in them, looks like a sticker with a coil under it.

• apparently the way to defeat all of these kinds of security measures is to have a “boost bag” an al foil lined bag

No. That’s a goon bag…

there are other types of tag where its loaded with dye

professional shoplifters rarely get caught, its the casual shoplifter that’s most likely caught according to the literature. the professional shoplifter is up to date with the new security measures, the casual shop lifter isn’t

wookiemeister said:

Obviousman said:

Did you steal the item? For arguments sake, not like you were admitting any wrongdoing or anything like that.

no it was on sale at katmandu

Then the tag must have been deactivated. You couldn’t do that if it were a reflector at the appropriate wavelength.

AwesomeO said:

Books sometimes have little antennas in them, looks like a sticker with a coil under it.

That’s RFID tags.

AwesomeO said:

Books sometimes have little antennas in them, looks like a sticker with a coil under it.

the way to defeat a tag like this is to either remove it or burn it out

as I was told when its swiped through the check out a small antenna under the counter overwhelms the small circuit and burns it out – if the item is replaced on the shelf the device now has no protection

if you know the frequency and walked into a store you might be able to blow the chips of thousands of items I suppose

Obviousman said:

AwesomeO said:

Books sometimes have little antennas in them, looks like a sticker with a coil under it.

That’s RFID tags.

I deal with these all day at work. They’re not the only security device used….there are hidden ones from the printers :D

the british invented RFID in WW2

it was to stop enemy aircraft tagging along behind their own aircraft

each aircraft had an RFID tag that received a message and automatically retransmitted a “friend” signal

bombers I think

if you tried flying in without the tag you got shot at

I suppose you could make a device that you carried in that went through many different frequencies that would over power the fragile circuit and burn it out

the tag I looked at is supposedly the more reliable type

I suppose, you might even spoof the store security by setting if off with the echo signal its looking for ie the security alarm is going off all the time

wookiemeister said:

the british invented RFID in WW2

it was to stop enemy aircraft tagging along behind their own aircraft

each aircraft had an RFID tag that received a message and automatically retransmitted a “friend” signal

bombers I think

if you tried flying in without the tag you got shot at

That was the first IFF signal. It also made the aircraft vulnerable because it transmitted a return signal and thus could be detected.

the Russians are probably flying more sorties and sending ships into strange place to provoke a response from the communication network of the military

watching the enigma section of the secret war , that’s what you do

the british would fly an aircraft somewhere have it do something then return, they would then look for radio traffic that’s encrypted and then guess what the message would be

eg

Russian bombers

tupolev bear

height 30,000 feet

speed X kmph

time of contact

so your computers cracking the code would start looking for these basic items of an encrypted message

Obviousman said:

wookiemeister said:

the british invented RFID in WW2

it was to stop enemy aircraft tagging along behind their own aircraft

each aircraft had an RFID tag that received a message and automatically retransmitted a “friend” signal

bombers I think

if you tried flying in without the tag you got shot at

That was the first IFF signal. It also made the aircraft vulnerable because it transmitted a return signal and thus could be detected.

its possible the germans might have bene able to do it once, but it mentions in another section of the series that the germans honed in on british bombers radar signals to attack them. the british realised fairly quickly what was going on and switched frequencies

What do the security screens in supermarkets detect? It cannot be barcodes because otherwise the operator wouldnt need to move them over the reader. And it cannot be metal and stuff cos you can push a trolley through, wearing belts and wallets and stuff and it doesn’t go off.

AwesomeO said:

What do the security screens in supermarkets detect? It cannot be barcodes because otherwise the operator wouldnt need to move them over the reader. And it cannot be metal and stuff cos you can push a trolley through, wearing belts and wallets and stuff and it doesn’t go off.

RFID I think

the screens pump out a frequency that gives power to a chip that has its own aerial. the aerial captures the radiated energy from the transmitter and this powers the chip to send its own signal to a receiver, on a different frequency I’d bet

AwesomeO said:

What do the security screens in supermarkets detect? It cannot be barcodes because otherwise the operator wouldnt need to move them over the reader. And it cannot be metal and stuff cos you can push a trolley through, wearing belts and wallets and stuff and it doesn’t go off.

I don’t know. I haven’t studied it. I don’t try to steal stuff.

Michael V said:

AwesomeO said:

What do the security screens in supermarkets detect? It cannot be barcodes because otherwise the operator wouldnt need to move them over the reader. And it cannot be metal and stuff cos you can push a trolley through, wearing belts and wallets and stuff and it doesn’t go off.

I don’t know. I haven’t studied it. I don’t try to steal stuff.

I have not studied it but I take an interest in things and wonder why.

AwesomeO said:

What do the security screens in supermarkets detect? It cannot be barcodes because otherwise the operator wouldnt need to move them over the reader. And it cannot be metal and stuff cos you can push a trolley through, wearing belts and wallets and stuff and it doesn’t go off.

belts and metallic stuff aren’t aerials

an aerial to be effective needs to be a very precise length for the electrons inside it to be moved around

the chaff dropped by aircraft in WW2 had to be cut to precise lengths for it to act as an aerial, reflector for the radar signal

aerials are normally fixed in length and will transmit / receive only a certain frequency

AwesomeO said:

What do the security screens in supermarkets detect? It cannot be barcodes because otherwise the operator wouldnt need to move them over the reader. And it cannot be metal and stuff cos you can push a trolley through, wearing belts and wallets and stuff and it doesn’t go off.

belts and metallic stuff aren’t aerials

an aerial to be effective needs to be a very precise length for the electrons inside it to be moved around

the chaff dropped by aircraft in WW2 had to be cut to precise lengths for it to act as an aerial, reflector for the radar signal

aerials are normally fixed in length and will transmit / receive only a certain frequency

AwesomeO said:

Michael V said:

AwesomeO said:

What do the security screens in supermarkets detect? It cannot be barcodes because otherwise the operator wouldnt need to move them over the reader. And it cannot be metal and stuff cos you can push a trolley through, wearing belts and wallets and stuff and it doesn’t go off.

I don’t know. I haven’t studied it. I don’t try to steal stuff.

I have not studied it but I take an interest in things and wonder why.

next time you go through security at an airport wrap something electronic in a bundle of something made from leather and see what they do

wookiemeister said:

AwesomeO said:

What do the security screens in supermarkets detect? It cannot be barcodes because otherwise the operator wouldnt need to move them over the reader. And it cannot be metal and stuff cos you can push a trolley through, wearing belts and wallets and stuff and it doesn’t go off.

belts and metallic stuff aren’t aerials

an aerial to be effective needs to be a very precise length for the electrons inside it to be moved around

the chaff dropped by aircraft in WW2 had to be cut to precise lengths for it to act as an aerial, reflector for the radar signal

aerials are normally fixed in length and will transmit / receive only a certain frequency

Where is the RFID on a can of beans? Or any of the other things you get in a supermarket?

• Where is the RFID on a can of beans? Or any of the other things you get in a supermarket?

DNE

AwesomeO said:

wookiemeister said:

AwesomeO said:

What do the security screens in supermarkets detect? It cannot be barcodes because otherwise the operator wouldnt need to move them over the reader. And it cannot be metal and stuff cos you can push a trolley through, wearing belts and wallets and stuff and it doesn’t go off.

belts and metallic stuff aren’t aerials

an aerial to be effective needs to be a very precise length for the electrons inside it to be moved around

the chaff dropped by aircraft in WW2 had to be cut to precise lengths for it to act as an aerial, reflector for the radar signal

aerials are normally fixed in length and will transmit / receive only a certain frequency

Where is the RFID on a can of beans? Or any of the other things you get in a supermarket?

they don’t mark bean cans with security tags – to my knowledge

an active security tag going through the doors means its most likely being stolen.

the real way to reduce loss from stealing is to push home shopping – you only get what you pay for

i gave a link to security devices used in store. rfid are more a stock control item.

if you had autonomous vehicles that could deliver goods it would be viable

if the vehicle was electric it could be eco friendly and as its route is known a programme could calculate the shortest route between nodes

every day groceries could be delivered in this way then

no charging down the supermarket every 5 mins

you could have three wheeler devices delivering the smaller purchases at speed

you could eventually build housing estates on the basis that home shopping is prevalent

hmmmm not in this thread.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_article_surveillance

JudgeMental said:

hmmmm not in this thread.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_article_surveillance

the tag I cut open must be deactivated by a magnet perhaps or a solenoid running on AC?

wookiemeister said:

I saw it mentioned today and thought someone was joking

in the grand scheme of thinks two boats doesn’t mean very much

they might just be listening in on our radio traffic trying to break it

I thought they were just wing men for Putins Arrival