I am intersex: Shon Klose’s story

“I would like to see a world where no one identifies as either male or female, but that we just acknowledge each other as human beings.”

Recent estimates suggest that as many as 1.7 per cent of people are born with attributes that don’t fit the typical definitions of male and female.

But for many intersex people, the challenges arise not from their bodies, but from a world that struggles to tolerate difference.

Alice Springs-based musician Shon Klose is an intersex advocate who is speaking out for a better understanding of this vastly misunderstood syndrome.

more…

Fuck me???

so “the being” Shon Klose says she is challenged by a world that >>> struggles to tolerate difference <<<.

>>> struggles to tolerate difference <<<

Yet Shon Klose wants to see a world where no one identifies as >>> either male or female <<<

wants to see a world where no one >>> is different <<<

Intolerant?

Because Shon Klose was born with no clear sex she wants eveyone else in the world to be the same.

No thanks Shon Klose

I think it’s clear that she means a world in which no-one feels obliged to attach great significance to whether they’re male or female.

The_observer said:

Fuck me???

so “the being” Shon Klose says she is challenged by a world that >>> struggles to tolerate difference <<<.

>>> struggles to tolerate difference <<<

Yet Shon Klose wants to see a world where no one identifies as >>> either male or female <<<

wants to see a world where no one >>> is different <<<

Intolerant?

Because Shon Klose was born with no clear sex she wants eveyone else in the world to be the same.

No thanks Shon Klose

There is a difference. Women can have babies, men can’t.

Bubblecar said:

I think it’s clear that she means a world in which no-one feels obliged to attach great significance to whether they’re male or female.

No.

“I would like to see a world where no one identifies as either male or female”

The_observer said:

Fuck me???

so “the being” Shon Klose says she is challenged by a world that >>> struggles to tolerate difference <<<.

>>> struggles to tolerate difference <<<

Yet Shon Klose wants to see a world where no one identifies as >>> either male or female <<<

wants to see a world where no one >>> is different <<<

Intolerant?

Because Shon Klose was born with no clear sex she wants eveyone else in the world to be the same.

No thanks Shon Klose

umm no… the quote suggests that there is an intolerance for difference from the norm

The_observer said:

“I would like to see a world where no one identifies as either male or female”

Yes but it’s clear that what she means by that is a world in which no-one feels obliged to attach great significance to whether they’re male or female.

diddly-squat said:

The_observer said:

Fuck me???

so “the being” Shon Klose says she is challenged by a world that >>> struggles to tolerate difference <<<.

>>> struggles to tolerate difference <<<

Yet Shon Klose wants to see a world where no one identifies as >>> either male or female <<<

wants to see a world where no one >>> is different <<<

Intolerant?

Because Shon Klose was born with no clear sex she wants eveyone else in the world to be the same.

No thanks Shon Klose

umm no… the quote suggests that there is an intolerance for difference from the norm

Intolerance is the human norm

Tamb said:

The_observer said:

Fuck me???

so “the being” Shon Klose says she is challenged by a world that >>> struggles to tolerate difference <<<.

>>> struggles to tolerate difference <<<

Yet Shon Klose wants to see a world where no one identifies as >>> either male or female <<<

wants to see a world where no one >>> is different <<<

Intolerant?

Because Shon Klose was born with no clear sex she wants eveyone else in the world to be the same.

No thanks Shon Klose

There is a difference. Women can have babies, men can’t.

No; both men & woman can have a baby, only females give birth.

Yes, that’s a big difference.

I can tolerate that difference.

Bubblecar said:

The_observer said:

“I would like to see a world where no one identifies as either male or female”

Yes but it’s clear that what she means by that is a world in which no-one feels obliged to attach great significance to whether they’re male or female.

that’s you interpretation, not mine.

>I can tolerate that difference.

…it’s just differences from the norm that get you agitated.

Bubblecar said:

The_observer said:

“I would like to see a world where no one identifies as either male or female”

Yes but it’s clear that what she means by that is a world in which no-one feels obliged to attach great significance to whether they’re male or female.

Biologically we are male or female though

The_observer said:

that’s you interpretation, not mine.

Yes but then again I read the article, and understood what she was saying.

The_observer said:

Tamb said:

The_observer said:

Fuck me???

so “the being” Shon Klose says she is challenged by a world that >>> struggles to tolerate difference <<<.

>>> struggles to tolerate difference <<<

Yet Shon Klose wants to see a world where no one identifies as >>> either male or female <<<

wants to see a world where no one >>> is different <<<

Intolerant?

Because Shon Klose was born with no clear sex she wants eveyone else in the world to be the same.

No thanks Shon Klose

There is a difference. Women can have babies, men can’t.

No; both men & woman can have a baby, only females give birth.

Yes, that’s a big difference.

I can tolerate that difference.

Yes Observer that’s what I meant.
It’s a fundamental difference & not subject to personal whim..

Cymek said:

Biologically we are male or female though

Not all of us, and she’s just arguing that intersex people shouldn’t feel pressured to change their bodies to imitate the norm.

I wonder if she has invented a new word to replace ‘he’ & ‘she’?

so I can always avoid labelling everyone as male or female.

This women had no internal reproductive system so she does have a biology differing from the norm, she herself should be allowed to choose being classed as human instead of male or female but I don’t think most other people would agree this should be the case for everyone.

Bubblecar said:

>I can tolerate that difference.

…it’s just differences from the norm that get you agitated.

No. I have no problem with how the hon Klose entity was born.

She is a freak of nature. I have no trouble with that.

The doctors operated on her with the best intentions to help her fit into,,yes – a norm.

I don’t fit into the norm around here, & I cop heaps, as I expect to.

I’m ok with that.

Cymek said:

Bubblecar said:

The_observer said:

“I would like to see a world where no one identifies as either male or female”

Yes but it’s clear that what she means by that is a world in which no-one feels obliged to attach great significance to whether they’re male or female.

Biologically we are male or female though

this is the underlying issue here; the article relates to gender identity, not which biological category one fits into.

The_observer said:

I wonder if she has invented a new word to replace ‘he’ & ‘she’?

so I can always avoid labelling everyone as male or female.

Possibly, to be all-inclusive S/he/it.

Tamb said:

Yes Observer that’s what I meant.
It’s a fundamental difference & not subject to personal whim..

And intersex people are fundamentally different from that male/female norm, but have traditionally been expected to surgically alter their bodies to resemble the norm, even though (as in the case of the person in the article) their internal organ arrangement still means they’re not male or female.

Bubblecar said:

Cymek said:

Biologically we are male or female though

Not all of us, and she’s just arguing that intersex people shouldn’t feel pressured to change their bodies to imitate the norm.

No are people pressured though, if you are secure in who you are as person you wouldn’t care, its our bullshit media that focuses on celebrity beauty and perfection that doesn’t help

Bubblecar said:

The_observer said:

that’s you interpretation, not mine.

Yes but then again I read the article, and understood what she was saying.

well I can also read & what she said -

“I would like to see a world where no one identifies as either male or female”

pretty straight forward.

you keep interpreting that quote how ever you like.

Bubblecar said:

Tamb said:

Yes Observer that’s what I meant.
It’s a fundamental difference & not subject to personal whim..

And intersex people are fundamentally different from that male/female norm, but have traditionally been expected to surgically alter their bodies to resemble the norm, even though (as in the case of the person in the article) their internal organ arrangement still means they’re not male or female.

The key word is “expected”.

Cymek said:

This women had no internal reproductive system so she does have a biology differing from the norm, she herself should be allowed to choose being classed as human instead of male or female but I don’t think most other people would agree this should be the case for everyone.

Again I think she’s talking more about attitudes, not how people are classified for bureaucratic purposes :)

You can identify as male or female without necessarily regarding your sex as your defining characteristic. Her point is that if people were more relaxed about such things they wouldn’t find intersex people so unsettling.

Do people on this forum think like everyone else in society, personally we seem more accepting of differences (I am being serious) and so we don’t see lots of things as problems or wrong just different and different isn’t wrong. If a person doesn’t identify as male or female I had no problem with that its not my business anyway and they wouldn’t come such a decision without a lot of soul searching

>pretty straight forward.

If you don’t care about meaning, yes. But this means you’re addressing an issue that isn’t actually present in what she’s saying in the article.

Cymek said:

Do people on this forum think like everyone else in society, personally we seem more accepting of differences (I am being serious) and so we don’t see lots of things as problems or wrong just different and different isn’t wrong. If a person doesn’t identify as male or female I had no problem with that its not my business anyway and they wouldn’t come such a decision without a lot of soul searching

I pretty much agree unless the powers that be make acceptance compulsory.

The intersex phenomenon could easily be prevented. Never again would any foetus fail to develop to either a male or female.

Either a Babie doll,,, or a truck or action hero figure, could be surgically implanted into the womb shortly after pregnancy.

If this is thought to be too intrusive perhaps just something either blue or pink would suffice.

the gender issue can easily be solved

Anyway if humans eventually take control of our own evolution, would we choose to maintain two sexes, even if it were not actually necessary for reproductive purposes? There’d be a strong case for a standard model, given all the stress and conflict that sexual inequality has historically entailed.

Bubblecar said:

Anyway if humans eventually take control of our own evolution, would we choose to maintain two sexes, even if it were not actually necessary for reproductive purposes? There’d be a strong case for a standard model, given all the stress and conflict that sexual inequality has historically entailed.

Lets hope we can take control of our evolution, being human is our minds, thoughts, emotions, creativity and so on, our bodies are nothing more than a life support system and a means to propogate our species

you’re a bastard observer

you’re very intolerant and ignorant of sexuality diversity observer

and when I can be bothered Ill go through your post line by line

Either way Shon Klose hasn’t had an easy time of it and you have to admire the courage shown

CrazyNeutrino said:

you’re very intolerant and ignorant of sexuality diversity observer

and when I can be bothered Ill go through your post line by line

laughing out load weirdo

> ….our bodies are nothing more than a life support system and a means to propogate our species..”

what say “nothing more” be meant to mean
of intention may you elaborate if dare’n can
oh dear friend its fullness to hear I am keen

The_observer said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

you’re very intolerant and ignorant of sexuality diversity observer

and when I can be bothered Ill go through your post line by line

laughing out load weirdo

wrong thing to do with someone who has aspergers

I will now go through your post line by line

transition said:

> ….our bodies are nothing more than a life support system and a means to propogate our species..”

what say “nothing more” be meant to mean
of intention may you elaborate if dare’n can
oh dear friend its fullness to hear I am keen

I suppose as I have grown up watching and reading science fiction where humanity had adapted itself to the environment altering our bodies but still retaining our humanness I don’t think what makes us human is our physical bodies but our minds.

The_observer said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

you’re very intolerant and ignorant of sexuality diversity observer

and when I can be bothered Ill go through your post line by line

laughing out load weirdo

fixed

laughing, outload, weirdo

Anyway, does this mean that a woman can give birth and also be a father if she so wishes?

roughbarked said:

Anyway, does this mean that a woman can give birth and also be a father if she so wishes?

predestination

CrazyNeutrino said:

The_observer said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

you’re very intolerant and ignorant of sexuality diversity observer

and when I can be bothered Ill go through your post line by line

laughing out load weirdo

wrong thing to do with someone who has aspergers

I will now go through your post line by line

your not an observer at all

Fuck me???

NO, she cannot have sex with anyone, you bastard

so “the being” Shon Klose says she is challenged by a world that >>> struggles to tolerate difference <<<.
>>> struggles to tolerate difference <<<

The sentence

But for many intersex people, the challenges arise not from their bodies, but from a world that struggles to tolerate difference.

My response

A world that struggles to tolerate difference is referring to people that are intolerant to difference

=============
Yet Shon Klose wants to see a world where no one identifies as >>> either male or female <<<
wants to see a world where no one >>> is different <<<
Intolerant?

The sentence

“I would like to see a world where no one identifies as either male or female, but that we just acknowledge each other as human beings.”

I guess that sentence went right over your head observer
Intolerant?
No
Shon Klose is referring to a world where everyone is gender equal, as human beings

==========\\
Because Shon Klose was born with no clear sex she wants everyone else in the world to be the same.

No she does not, she want people to understand her view

=
No thanks Shon Klose

You were born the way you were weren’t you “Arse hole”

And “You” are not her, nor ever will be, and “You” will never understand what she is going through

Now observer, imagine someone born without a penis or a vagina

And your have the cheek to say fuck me

She cannot have sex at all your bastard

Also think of the chemical balance of her body

That went over your head too didn’t it

Fuck off Observer

you cannot Observe anything all all

CrazyNeutrino said:

The_observer said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

you’re very intolerant and ignorant of sexuality diversity observer

and when I can be bothered Ill go through your post line by line

laughing out load weirdo

wrong thing to do with someone who has aspergers

I will now go through your post line by line

Yo assman.

try not to respond to the troll, CN… Observer is a grubby little cu..grub who is just trying to offend.

out there be hyper comparison
hyper contrastin’, hyper relative perspective
roamin’n wanders unrestrainin’
‘em are wild beasts holdin’ ‘gether collective
under workin’ guise egalitarian
look where the absolutist get a quick reckon

CrazyNeutrino said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

The_observer said:

laughing out load weirdo

wrong thing to do with someone who has aspergers

I will now go through your post line by line

your not an observer at all

Fuck me???

NO, she cannot have sex with anyone, you bastard

so “the being” Shon Klose says she is challenged by a world that >>> struggles to tolerate difference <<<.
>>> struggles to tolerate difference <<<

The sentence

But for many intersex people, the challenges arise not from their bodies, but from a world that struggles to tolerate difference.

My response

A world that struggles to tolerate difference is referring to people that are intolerant to difference

=============
Yet Shon Klose wants to see a world where no one identifies as >>> either male or female <<<
wants to see a world where no one >>> is different <<<
Intolerant?

The sentence

“I would like to see a world where no one identifies as either male or female, but that we just acknowledge each other as human beings.”

I guess that sentence went right over your head observer
Intolerant?
No
Shon Klose is referring to a world where everyone is gender equal, as human beings

==========\\
Because Shon Klose was born with no clear sex she wants everyone else in the world to be the same.

No she does not, she want people to understand her view

=
No thanks Shon Klose

You were born the way you were weren’t you “Arse hole”

And “You” are not her, nor ever will be, and “You” will never understand what she is going through

Now observer, imagine someone born without a penis or a vagina

And your have the cheek to say fuck me

She cannot have sex at all your bastard

Also think of the chemical balance of her body

That went over your head too didn’t it

Fuck off Observer

you cannot Observe anything all all

fuck me!

CrazyNeutrino said:

Recent estimates suggest that as many as 1.7 per cent of people are born with attributes that don’t fit the typical definitions of male and female.

No. That’s nowhere near the correct order of magnitude. I doubt if it’s even one tenth of that, more likely a hundredth or a thousandth of that.

The_observer said:

No; both men & woman can have a baby, only females give birth.

Last year, 54 people identifying as males gave birth.
Ref

Also, my 2c…

The other day there was a news story about a transgender male jailed for assaulting an elderly woman. Why does it matter that he is transgender? Just say “a male has been sentenced…”

mollwollfumble said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

Recent estimates suggest that as many as 1.7 per cent of people are born with attributes that don’t fit the typical definitions of male and female.

No. That’s nowhere near the correct order of magnitude. I doubt if it’s even one tenth of that, more likely a hundredth or a thousandth of that.

Let me see if I can come up with a better “rough estimate”.

A relatively common neonatal sex anomaly is Turner Syndrome (chromosomes X0). These people are physiologically female so don’t count as “intersex”. Occurrence is between 0.01 and 0.025 percent. Severe mental retardation.

Another common is Kleinfelter’s Syndrome (chromosomes XXY, XXXY, XXXXY etc). These people are physiologically male so also don’t count as “intersex”. Occurrence is between 0.05 and 0.1 percent. Severe mental retardation.

XYY chromosome doesn’t count because such people are physiologically and psychologically normal males.

Chimeras who contain two cell lines, one of which is XX and one of which is XY, occur through the fusion in utero of fraternal twins or through the incorporation of a mothers cells in a male baby. Occurrence rate is unknown, as most people who are chimeras are completely unaware of the fact. An extremely small fraction become intersex. This has only been reported in unusual cases like the 1998 IVF case, where a male human had some partially developed female organs due to chimerism.

A supernumerary nipple is an additional nipple occurring in mammals, including humans. Often mistaken for moles. Although very common, the people with this mutation could not in any way be classed as intersex.

In humans, biological sex is determined by five factors present at birth: the number and type of sex chromosomes; the type of gonads—ovaries or testicles; the sex hormones, the internal reproductive anatomy (such as the uterus in females), and the external genitalia.
People whose five characteristics are not either all typically male or all typically female at birth are intersex.

You will note that the above is not a fair definition of intersex because XYY people are completely male physically and psychologically.

“Gender identity” is quite different to and, I would claim, uncorrelated with intersex at birth.

mollwollfumble said:

mollwollfumble said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

Recent estimates suggest that as many as 1.7 per cent of people are born with attributes that don’t fit the typical definitions of male and female.

No. That’s nowhere near the correct order of magnitude. I doubt if it’s even one tenth of that, more likely a hundredth or a thousandth of that.

Let me see if I can come up with a better “rough estimate”.

A relatively common neonatal sex anomaly is Turner Syndrome (chromosomes X0). These people are physiologically female so don’t count as “intersex”. Occurrence is between 0.01 and 0.025 percent. Severe mental retardation.

Another common is Kleinfelter’s Syndrome (chromosomes XXY, XXXY, XXXXY etc). These people are physiologically male so also don’t count as “intersex”. Occurrence is between 0.05 and 0.1 percent. Severe mental retardation.

XYY chromosome doesn’t count because such people are physiologically and psychologically normal males.

Chimeras who contain two cell lines, one of which is XX and one of which is XY, occur through the fusion in utero of fraternal twins or through the incorporation of a mothers cells in a male baby. Occurrence rate is unknown, as most people who are chimeras are completely unaware of the fact. An extremely small fraction become intersex. This has only been reported in unusual cases like the 1998 IVF case, where a male human had some partially developed female organs due to chimerism.

A supernumerary nipple is an additional nipple occurring in mammals, including humans. Often mistaken for moles. Although very common, the people with this mutation could not in any way be classed as intersex.

In humans, biological sex is determined by five factors present at birth: the number and type of sex chromosomes; the type of gonads—ovaries or testicles; the sex hormones, the internal reproductive anatomy (such as the uterus in females), and the external genitalia.
People whose five characteristics are not either all typically male or all typically female at birth are intersex.

You will note that the above is not a fair definition of intersex because XYY people are completely male physically and psychologically.

“Gender identity” is quite different to and, I would claim, uncorrelated with intersex at birth.

woman with turner syndrome do not suffer severe mental retardation

vive la difference

But people who don’t fit into the norm should not be isolated.

I don’t agree with 1.7% trying to change the rest of us to suit their own differences, but I think the rest of us should be more tolerant of those who are different

rumpole said:

vive la difference

But people who don’t fit into the norm should not be isolated.

I don’t agree with 1.7% trying to change the rest of us to suit their own differences, but I think the rest of us should be more tolerant of those who are different

which is indeed fair.

rumpole said:

vive la difference

But people who don’t fit into the norm should not be isolated.

I don’t agree with 1.7% trying to change the rest of us to suit their own differences, but I think the rest of us should be more tolerant of those who are different

I agree with that