Date: 11/12/2014 09:43:25
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 643429
Subject: Composition of Comet

Rosetta Mission Data Rules Out Comets as a Source for Earth’s Water
By KENNETH CHANGDEC. 10, 2014
Photo
The water that fills Earth’s oceans almost certainly did not come from melted comets, scientists working on the European Space Agency’s Rosetta mission reported on Wednesday.

Water vapor streaming off Comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko, the subject of a yearlong examination by the Rosetta spacecraft, contains a much higher fraction of “heavy hydrogen” than water on Earth does.

“That now probably rules out” comets as the primary source of terrestrial water, said Kathrin Altwegg, a scientist at the University of Bern in Switzerland and the principal investigator for the Rosetta instrument that made the measurements.

With comets unlikely, most astronomers now think the Earth’s water came from asteroids.

The new findings, published in the journal Science, are among the first from Rosetta, which arrived at Comet 67P in August. Last month, Rosetta successfully sent a small lander named Philae to the surface of the comet.

The lander failed to hold on, bounced high off the surface and settled in a shaded area — depriving it of sunlight to replenish its batteries and cutting short its scientific mission.

The Rosetta spacecraft’s Philae lander is attempting to land on Comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko.

But the Rosetta orbiter continues its observations, and mission managers are hopeful that Philae will rouse itself from hibernation in May, when the comet is closer to the sun and the lander’s solar panels are able to generate more electricity.

“It’s a nice start to this phase of the mission,” Matt Taylor, the project scientist, said of the water findings.

Earth’s water has long been a puzzle. Scientists had long presumed that the planet was dry when it formed 4.5 billion years ago, and that the water came later, perhaps during the “late heavy bombardment” period more than 3.8 billion years ago. Comets, often called dirty snowballs, seemed a likely candidate.

But comets’ water turned out to be different from Earth’s. Some water molecules have a heavier version of hydrogen called deuterium that replaces one of the two hydrogen atoms, forming what is known as heavy water.

Comets that originate in the Oort cloud, the outermost reaches of the solar system, have twice the concentration of heavy water found in Earth water. Thus, when the Rosetta spacecraft was launched in 2004 on its long journey, most planetary scientists had already crossed comets off the list of possibilities.

But in 2011, a team using the Herschel Space Observatory, an infrared telescope operated by the European Space Agency, took a look at water vapor from the comet Hartley 2 and found that its deuterium signal perfectly matched Earth’s water. That opened the possibility that Earth’s water could have come from closer comets, like Hartley 2, whose orbit does not go much farther out than Jupiter’s.

The new measurements of 67P, another Jupiter-family comet, appear to rule out comets again. Its fraction of heavy water is three times that of Earth, higher than those of the Oort cloud comets.

“Ten years ago I would not have been surprised at all by this result, because that’s what I expected,” Dr. Altwegg said. “But then three years ago we got this Hartley 2 measurement, and that was a real big surprise. Now we’re back to what I actually expected.”

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Much of the solar system’s water, including up to half of Earth’s, appears to predate the solar system, formed within expanses of interstellar space billions of years ago. The sun, like the universe over all, has very low levels of deuterium

However, under certain conditions — cold temperatures along with radiation that knocks electrons off hydrogen — chemical reactions create water molecules with a much higher fraction of deuterium.

In a paper published in September, scientists led by L. Ilsedore Cleeves, a graduate student at the University of Michigan, found that these conditions did not exist in the early solar system, so the high-deuterium water must have been present in the cloud of matter that collapsed to form the solar system. While the outer solar system was cold enough, there was no radiation to eliminate f the electrons.

“Our paper showed that the outer part of the disk cannot be an engine for creating the deuterium fingerprint,” said Edwin A. Bergin, a professor of astronomy at Michigan who was another of the paper’s authors.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/11/science/rosetta-mission-data-rules-out-comets-as-a-source-for-earths-water.html

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Date: 11/12/2014 09:44:26
From: Dropbear
ID: 643430
Subject: re: Composition of Comet

“rules out” huh

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Date: 11/12/2014 09:45:08
From: Divine Angel
ID: 643431
Subject: re: Composition of Comet

Indeed. Based on a sample size of 1.

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Date: 11/12/2014 09:46:06
From: jjjust moi
ID: 643433
Subject: re: Composition of Comet

Divine Angel said:


Indeed. Based on a sample size of 1.

3

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Date: 11/12/2014 09:46:47
From: dv
ID: 643435
Subject: re: Composition of Comet

Very interesting.

The author does seem to be drawing very firm conclusions from one datapoint and it will be interesting to hear how this is received by others in the field.

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Date: 11/12/2014 09:52:44
From: dv
ID: 643440
Subject: re: Composition of Comet

Note that if you have water that is a mixture of isotopes, the evaporate will be lower in deuterium than the liquid (higher mass and hence lower speed at a given temperature). This fact is used in geology for various dating and locating purposes. We expect that the ice of a comet will be higher in deuterium % now than it was when first formed. But I assume the authors have taken this into account.

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Date: 11/12/2014 11:21:56
From: Bubblecar
ID: 643533
Subject: re: Composition of Comet

>Much of the solar system’s water, including up to half of Earth’s, appears to predate the solar system, formed within expanses of interstellar space billions of years ago.

Think of that next time you flush the lavatory.

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Date: 11/12/2014 11:29:29
From: Cymek
ID: 643550
Subject: re: Composition of Comet

Couldn’t the deuterium have become diluted amongst all the water on Earth which is vastly more than on one comet where the ratio would be higher

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Date: 11/12/2014 11:32:45
From: Bubblecar
ID: 643553
Subject: re: Composition of Comet

Cymek said:


Couldn’t the deuterium have become diluted amongst all the water on Earth which is vastly more than on one comet where the ratio would be higher

Um, only if Earth’s water has less deuterium. Which is the point.

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Date: 11/12/2014 11:34:41
From: Bubblecar
ID: 643557
Subject: re: Composition of Comet

Permeate might be out bush somewhere, bob presumably still doesn’t have a working pooter. Crazy might just be having a break.

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Date: 11/12/2014 11:36:12
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 643559
Subject: re: Composition of Comet

I’m happy to say “rules out”. There have always been two possible explanations of where Earth’s water came from. In one possible explanation it came from comets. In the second possible explanation it came from outgassing from the interior. We’ve heard recently on the forum that mantle rocks have an extraordinarily high water-holding capacity – which argues in favour of the outgassing hypothesis. In addition, the extremely small amount of water on the Moon argues that Earth’s water has not primarily come from the infall of comets. This, the isotopic composition of comet water, is the third indicator pointing in the same direction. That’s good enough for me.

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Date: 11/12/2014 11:36:41
From: Bubblecar
ID: 643561
Subject: re: Composition of Comet

Bubblecar said:


Permeate might be out bush somewhere, bob presumably still doesn’t have a working pooter. Crazy might just be having a break.

But presumably none of them are actually hiding on the comet, sorry.

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Date: 11/12/2014 11:36:50
From: Cymek
ID: 643562
Subject: re: Composition of Comet

Bubblecar said:


Cymek said:

Couldn’t the deuterium have become diluted amongst all the water on Earth which is vastly more than on one comet where the ratio would be higher

Um, only if Earth’s water has less deuterium. Which is the point.

Yes, but couldn’t an accumulation of comets all with high ratios of deuterium seeded Earth with water and it became diluted to resemble the water the exists on Earth today. You could a few comets like the one in the thread with high ratios and most don’t

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Date: 11/12/2014 11:38:54
From: Bubblecar
ID: 643564
Subject: re: Composition of Comet

Cymek said:


Yes, but couldn’t an accumulation of comets all with high ratios of deuterium seeded Earth with water and it became diluted to resemble the water the exists on Earth today. You could a few comets like the one in the thread with high ratios and most don’t

They’ve presumably done the necessary calculations and concluded that half of Earth’s water predates the solar system.

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Date: 11/12/2014 16:32:10
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 643736
Subject: re: Composition of Comet

>>But comets’ water turned out to be different from Earth’s. Some water molecules have a heavier version of hydrogen
called deuterium that replaces one of the two hydrogen atoms, forming what is known as heavy water.

What?

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Date: 12/12/2014 02:37:55
From: dv
ID: 644045
Subject: re: Composition of Comet

I think what they mean is that some of the water is heavy water, ie has deuterium instead of H-1.

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Date: 12/12/2014 09:21:43
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 644093
Subject: re: Composition of Comet

dv said:


I think what they mean is that some of the water is heavy water, ie has deuterium instead of H-1.

Yes I know what they are saying but it’s just a terrible terrible way of explaining it.
I always tell the people at the bus shelter that isotopes should always be explained at the atomic level and not the molecular level.

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