Date: 22/12/2014 15:31:47
From: Dropbear
ID: 650494
Subject: The secular humanists ten commandments

So what do we think?

Atheists have written their own version of the ten commandments. These commandments were chosen from submissions to Atheist Mind Humanist Heart’s (AMHH) Re-Think Prize, a crowdsourcing project.
Read more at http://www.inquisitr.com/1692212/atheists-rewrite-ten-commandments-mythbusters-adam-savage-judged-new-commands/#K6xLGkbTOVulxlA1.99


Be open-minded and be willing to alter your beliefs with new evidence.

Strive to understand what is most likely to be true, not to believe what you wish to be true.

The scientific method is the most reliable way of understanding the natural world.

Every person has the right to control over their body.

God is not necessary to be a good person or to live a full and meaningful life.

Be mindful of the consequences of all your actions and recognize that you must take responsibility for them.

Treat others as you would want them to treat you, and can reasonably expect them to want to be treated. Think about their perspective.

We have the responsibility to consider others, including future generations.

There is no one right way to live.

Leave the world a better place than you found it.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 15:35:16
From: furious
ID: 650495
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

Unnecessary…

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 15:39:09
From: Postpocelipse
ID: 650497
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

Dropbear said:


So what do we think?

Atheists have written their own version of the ten commandments. These commandments were chosen from submissions to Atheist Mind Humanist Heart’s (AMHH) Re-Think Prize, a crowdsourcing project.
Read more at http://www.inquisitr.com/1692212/atheists-rewrite-ten-commandments-mythbusters-adam-savage-judged-new-commands/#K6xLGkbTOVulxlA1.99

God is not necessary to be a good person or to live a full and meaningful life.

No immediate issues with any of it apart from the phrasing here. Had they stated “an individual does not require a belief in God to be living a full and meaningful life” I would have entirely agreed seeing as the sentiment was obviously intended to minimise bigotry. The way it has been phrased sounds like they are still trying to convince themselves by convincing others……

I will scrutinise the rest from a holier-than-thou perspective shortly……….. :P

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 15:43:43
From: Postpocelipse
ID: 650499
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

furious said:

  • So what do we think?

Unnecessary…

The compilation attempts to match the moral compass provided by the old testament. It would be less contrived if they sought to provide modern context to these idealisms rather than compete with an outdated Id.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 15:53:15
From: Cymek
ID: 650501
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

God is not necessary to be a good person or to live a full and meaningful life

In a universe indifferent to our very existence we should strive to be a good person or to live a full and meaningful life as life is damn hard otherwise

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 15:55:55
From: Tamb
ID: 650503
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

Cymek said:



God is not necessary to be a good person or to live a full and meaningful life

In a universe indifferent to our very existence we should strive to be a good person or to live a full and meaningful life as life is damn hard otherwise

>>Every person has the right to control over their body.
Not really.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 15:57:13
From: Cymek
ID: 650504
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

Tamb said:


Cymek said:


God is not necessary to be a good person or to live a full and meaningful life

In a universe indifferent to our very existence we should strive to be a good person or to live a full and meaningful life as life is damn hard otherwise

>>Every person has the right to control over their body.
Not really.

Perhaps add in every person of sound mind has the right to control over their body.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 15:59:22
From: Tamb
ID: 650505
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

Cymek said:


Tamb said:

Cymek said:


God is not necessary to be a good person or to live a full and meaningful life

In a universe indifferent to our very existence we should strive to be a good person or to live a full and meaningful life as life is damn hard otherwise


>>Every person has the right to control over their body.
Not really.

Perhaps add in every person of sound mind has the right to control over their body.

And provided that control does not have the body contravene the other commandments.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 16:01:18
From: Postpocelipse
ID: 650506
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

A more informative set of instructions may be more applicable to the contemporary setting. For instance, rather than simply stating “don’t lie” you might provide meaningful contrast in the statement “the result of honesty is more valuable than that of manipulation”. etc..

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 16:03:06
From: Tamb
ID: 650507
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

Postpocelipse said:


A more informative set of instructions may be more applicable to the contemporary setting. For instance, rather than simply stating “don’t lie” you might provide meaningful contrast in the statement “the result of honesty is more valuable than that of manipulation”. etc..

Good point Post.
If ever a woman asks you “Does my bum look big in this?” LIE

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 16:03:52
From: Cymek
ID: 650508
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

Thou shalt not seek to impose thy will on others

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 16:05:48
From: Postpocelipse
ID: 650509
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

Tamb said:


Postpocelipse said:

A more informative set of instructions may be more applicable to the contemporary setting. For instance, rather than simply stating “don’t lie” you might provide meaningful contrast in the statement “the result of honesty is more valuable than that of manipulation”. etc..

Good point Post.
If ever a woman asks you “Does my bum look big in this?” LIE

Not a crime. Technically a sin mortal.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 16:05:58
From: Tamb
ID: 650510
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

Cymek said:


Thou shalt not seek to impose thy will on others

Except when acting in accordance with the law.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 16:06:31
From: Cymek
ID: 650512
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

Tamb said:


Postpocelipse said:

A more informative set of instructions may be more applicable to the contemporary setting. For instance, rather than simply stating “don’t lie” you might provide meaningful contrast in the statement “the result of honesty is more valuable than that of manipulation”. etc..

Good point Post.
If ever a woman asks you “Does my bum look big in this?” LIE

I’ve wondered would people prefer a government that tells the truth about its past misdeeds even if those misdeeds were something like genocide or continue to lie and hide the distasteful truth.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 16:07:13
From: furious
ID: 650513
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

Probably prefer the misdeeds to not happen in the first place…

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 16:07:22
From: Postpocelipse
ID: 650514
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

Cymek said:


Thou shalt not seek to impose thy will on others

Unless they are doing very ignorant things that need intervention. Functional debatability is a requirement……

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 16:11:26
From: Postpocelipse
ID: 650518
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

furious said:

  • I’ve wondered would people prefer a government that tells the truth about its past misdeeds even if those misdeeds were something like genocide or continue to lie and hide the distasteful truth.

Probably prefer the misdeeds to not happen in the first place…

I think the only inclusion I would phrase irrevocably would “DO NOT AVOID ACCOUNTABILITY!!!!”

The ability to take responsibility makes a child an adult and an animal human.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 16:15:41
From: Cymek
ID: 650521
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

Postpocelipse said:


furious said:
  • I’ve wondered would people prefer a government that tells the truth about its past misdeeds even if those misdeeds were something like genocide or continue to lie and hide the distasteful truth.

Probably prefer the misdeeds to not happen in the first place…

I think the only inclusion I would phrase irrevocably would “DO NOT AVOID ACCOUNTABILITY!!!!”

The ability to take responsibility makes a child an adult and an animal human.

Responsibility as an individual ranging right up to our entire species.
Its the lack of responsibility as a collective species that causes numerous problems.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 16:19:31
From: Dropbear
ID: 650523
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

Obey the law? No
Obey just laws, from a justly established government? yes

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 16:21:56
From: Postpocelipse
ID: 650524
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

Dropbear said:


Obey the law? No
Obey just laws, from a justly established government? yes

Cooperate with any and all reason…………

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 16:22:02
From: Tamb
ID: 650525
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

Dropbear said:


Obey the law? No
Obey just laws, from a justly established government? yes

That’s what I meant but was trying to simplify it.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 16:25:09
From: Postpocelipse
ID: 650527
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

Postpocelipse said:


Dropbear said:

Obey the law? No
Obey just laws, from a justly established government? yes

Cooperate only with good reason…………

might be more applicable…

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 16:25:35
From: Cymek
ID: 650528
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

Strive for knowledge not ignorance, and do not misuse that knowledge at the expense of others

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 16:32:30
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 650529
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

remember the sunscreen.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 16:35:02
From: Postpocelipse
ID: 650533
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

ChrispenEvan said:


remember the sunscreen.

hasn’t got the same sense of drama as “remember Carthage!”

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 16:38:13
From: Bubblecar
ID: 650537
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

This is a very American thing. True humanists don’t rely on (or approve of) “commandments”.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 16:45:11
From: Dropbear
ID: 650547
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

Bubblecar said:


This is a very American thing. True humanists don’t rely on (or approve of) “commandments”.

Your interpretation of something is not the “true” interpretation bubblecar, and personally I wish you’d stop that shit ..

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 16:47:12
From: Bubblecar
ID: 650548
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

Dropbear said:


Bubblecar said:

This is a very American thing. True humanists don’t rely on (or approve of) “commandments”.

Your interpretation of something is not the “true” interpretation bubblecar, and personally I wish you’d stop that shit ..

If they’d call them “ten pieces of good advice” I’d be more agreeable, but Americans are too prone to deriving alternatives to religion from religion itself.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 16:47:18
From: Cymek
ID: 650549
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

Dropbear said:


Bubblecar said:

This is a very American thing. True humanists don’t rely on (or approve of) “commandments”.

Your interpretation of something is not the “true” interpretation bubblecar, and personally I wish you’d stop that shit ..

I am not sure that even true humanists are mature enough to be responsible and do the right thing without some sort of guidelines.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 16:49:33
From: ratty one
ID: 650550
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

[I get bothered when people totally dismiss empirical evidence for pseudo stuff Where as bear , I am open to the fact some treatments may need be evidenced as to why they currently appear to work and accept proven facts as true until otherwise proven. I don’t understand why total dismissing of scientific evidence seems logical to some people.

Not all people are good regardless of religious views though. I don’t get that one and how does society determine what being good is? I mean that question as a serious one because good is often described and determined by what social; norms and expectant social norms are. Those social norms vary around the world greatly.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 16:55:35
From: Cymek
ID: 650553
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

ratty one said:

That one question what is good would have an entire set of rules/guidelines itself.
Harm minimisation to the present and future individuals of humanity for example.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 17:06:19
From: Tamb
ID: 650558
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

Postpocelipse said:


ChrispenEvan said:

remember the sunscreen.

hasn’t got the same sense of drama as “remember Carthage!”

Or “Maintain the rage”

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 17:14:57
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 650559
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

I encourage anyone over 26 to try this and thank you for indulging my attempt.Ladies and gentlemen of the class of ’97:

Wear sunscreen.

If I could offer you only one tip for the future, sunscreen would be it. The long-term benefits of sunscreen have been proved by scientists, whereas the rest of my advice has no basis more reliable than my own meandering experience. I will dispense this advice now.

Enjoy the power and beauty of your youth. Oh, never mind. You will not understand the power and beauty of your youth until they’ve faded. But trust me, in 20 years, you’ll look back at photos of yourself and recall in a way you can’t grasp now how much possibility lay before you and how fabulous you really looked. You are not as fat as you imagine.

Don’t worry about the future. Or worry, but know that worrying is as effective as trying to solve an algebra equation by chewing bubble gum. The real troubles in your life are apt to be things that never crossed your worried mind, the kind that blindside you at 4 p.m. on some idle Tuesday.

Do one thing every day that scares you.

Sing.

Don’t be reckless with other people’s hearts. Don’t put up with people who are reckless with yours.

Floss.

Don’t waste your time on jealousy. Sometimes you’re ahead, sometimes you’re behind. The race is long and, in the end, it’s only with yourself.

Remember compliments you receive. Forget the insults. If you succeed in doing this, tell me how.

Keep your old love letters. Throw away your old bank statements.

Stretch.

Don’t feel guilty if you don’t know what you want to do with your life. The most interesting people I know didn’t know at 22 what they wanted to do with their lives. Some of the most interesting 40-year-olds I know still don’t.

Get plenty of calcium. Be kind to your knees. You’ll miss them when they’re gone.

Maybe you’ll marry, maybe you won’t. Maybe you’ll have children, maybe you won’t. Maybe you’ll divorce at 40, maybe you’ll dance the funky chicken on your 75th wedding anniversary. Whatever you do, don’t congratulate yourself too much, or berate yourself either. Your choices are half chance. So are everybody else’s.

Enjoy your body. Use it every way you can. Don’t be afraid of it or of what other people think of it. It’s the greatest instrument you’ll ever own.

Dance, even if you have nowhere to do it but your living room.

Read the directions, even if you don’t follow them.

Do not read beauty magazines. They will only make you feel ugly.

Get to know your parents. You never know when they’ll be gone for good. Be nice to your siblings. They’re your best link to your past and the people most likely to stick with you in the future.

Understand that friends come and go, but with a precious few you should hold on. Work hard to bridge the gaps in geography and lifestyle, because the older you get, the more you need the people who knew you when you were young.

Live in New York City once, but leave before it makes you hard. Live in Northern California once, but leave before it makes you soft. Travel.

Accept certain inalienable truths: Prices will rise. Politicians will philander. You, too, will get old. And when you do, you’ll fantasize that when you were young, prices were reasonable, politicians were noble and children respected their elders.

Respect your elders.

Don’t expect anyone else to support you. Maybe you have a trust fund. Maybe you’ll have a wealthy spouse. But you never know when either one might run out.

Don’t mess too much with your hair or by the time you’re 40 it will look 85.

Be careful whose advice you buy, but be patient with those who supply it. Advice is a form of nostalgia. Dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it’s worth.

But trust me on the sunscreen.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 17:20:06
From: furious
ID: 650561
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

Well, if you are going to post lyrics:

Fitter, happier, more productive,
Comfortable,
Not drinking too much,
Regular exercise at the gym
(Three days a week),
Getting on better with your associate employee contemporaries,
At ease,
Eating well
(No more microwave dinners and saturated fats),
A patient better driver,
A safer car
(Baby smiling in back seat),
Sleeping well
(No bad dreams),
No paranoia,
Careful to all animals
(Never washing spiders down the plughole),
Keep in contact with old friends
(Enjoy a drink now and then),
Will frequently check credit at (moral) bank (hole in the wall),
Favours for favours,
Fond but not in love,
Charity standing orders,
On Sundays ring road supermarket
(No killing moths or putting boiling water on the ants),
Car wash
(Also on Sundays),
No longer afraid of the dark or midday shadows
Nothing so ridiculously teenage and desperate,
Nothing so childish, at a better pace,
Slower and more calculated,
No chance of escape,
Now self-employed,
Concerned (but powerless),
An empowered and informed member of society
(Pragmatism not idealism),
Will not cry in public,
Less chance of illness,
Tires that grip in the wet
(Shot of baby strapped in back seat),
A good memory,
Still cries at a good film,
Still kisses with saliva,
No longer empty and frantic like a cat tied to a stick,
That’s driven into frozen winter shit
(The ability to laugh at weakness),
Calm,
Fitter,
Healthier and more productive
A pig in a cage on antibiotics.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 17:25:45
From: Michael V
ID: 650564
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

I encourage anyone over 26 to try this and thank you for indulging my attempt.Ladies and gentlemen of the class of ’97:

Wear sunscreen.

(snip)
———

Good one, CE. :) :) :)

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 17:41:45
From: Postpocelipse
ID: 650577
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

Tamb said:


Postpocelipse said:

ChrispenEvan said:

remember the sunscreen.

hasn’t got the same sense of drama as “remember Carthage!”

Or “Maintain the rage”

before we end up with ‘remember the abc’??

;)

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 18:03:26
From: transition
ID: 650599
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

it’d be a metaphysically impoverished humanist that wanted for commandments.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 18:05:20
From: ms spock
ID: 650600
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

transition said:


it’d be a metaphysically impoverished humanist that wanted for commandments.

Or a satirical one!

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 18:08:56
From: Dropbear
ID: 650603
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

transition said:


it’d be a metaphysically impoverished humanist that wanted for commandments.

No, just one that understands the point being made. Any functioning collective needs rules anyway. Humanists are not anarchists

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 18:09:14
From: transition
ID: 650604
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

>Or a satirical one!

did cross my mind, but thought i’d offer a prophylactic for those that couldn’t make the leap, or lept prematurely for their personal entertainment.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 18:11:23
From: transition
ID: 650607
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

>No, just one that understands the point being made. Any functioning collective needs rules anyway. Humanists are not anarchists

now worries, you and me can get down to the details of each as written, proposition by proposition and see if they stand up

after i’ve had my pizza, if you like

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 18:11:28
From: ms spock
ID: 650608
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

Dropbear said:


transition said:

it’d be a metaphysically impoverished humanist that wanted for commandments.

No, just one that understands the point being made. Any functioning collective needs rules anyway. Humanists are not anarchists

And even writing them up, and sharing them, gets people to think.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 18:14:21
From: Cymek
ID: 650617
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

ms spock said:


Dropbear said:

transition said:

it’d be a metaphysically impoverished humanist that wanted for commandments.

No, just one that understands the point being made. Any functioning collective needs rules anyway. Humanists are not anarchists

And even writing them up, and sharing them, gets people to think.

Plus if your humanist movement is in it for the long haul they need to be written down so they don’t get distorted and misused.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 18:41:50
From: Ian
ID: 650633
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

11. Thou shalt not remove the Tag from thine Upholstered Goods, lest thine Buttocks be rent from Thy Body and used as Play-Things by Wild Orang-Utans

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 18:57:41
From: transition
ID: 650637
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

“Be open-minded and be willing to alter your beliefs with new evidence”

Starting with the first part of the line quoted above, it maybe has a few problems.

Problem 1.

‘Open-minded’ is a dubious idealization.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 19:04:49
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 650641
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

transition said:


“Be open-minded and be willing to alter your beliefs with new evidence”

Starting with the first part of the line quoted above, it maybe has a few problems.

Problem 1.

‘Open-minded’ is a dubious idealization.

Depends what is meant by the term (we all know that you shouldn’t be so open minded that your brains fall out), but since they explain that they mean you should be open to new evidence, I don’t see a problem with it.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 19:07:22
From: Bubblecar
ID: 650642
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

The Rev Dodgson said:


Depends what is meant by the term (we all know that you shouldn’t be so open minded that your brains fall out), but since they explain that they mean you should be open to new evidence, I don’t see a problem with it.

Except that “commanding” people to be open-minded strikes an authoritarian note that is altogether inappropriate.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 19:10:58
From: transition
ID: 650644
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

>Depends what is meant by the term (we all know that you shouldn’t be so open minded that your brains fall out), but since they explain that they mean you should be open to new evidence, I don’t see a problem with it.

Translated, you’re generalizing that it’s a useful statement…

Back to the word-concept, doesn’t ‘open-minded’ invoke a flipside ‘closed-minded’, and doesn’t that tend a dichotomy, and stereotypes from….

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 19:16:55
From: wookiemeister
ID: 650647
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

1 wookiemeister – right again

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 19:53:36
From: Dropbear
ID: 650672
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

Be open-minded and be willing to alter your beliefs with new evidence.

I wonder about the wording to that. I don’t like the word belief, conjures up ideas of faith.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 19:56:56
From: party_pants
ID: 650675
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

Dropbear said:


Be open-minded and be willing to alter your beliefs with new evidence.

I wonder about the wording to that. I don’t like the word belief, conjures up ideas of faith.

Don’t cling to what you believed to be true in the face of new evidence to contrary.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 20:00:55
From: Dropbear
ID: 650679
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

party_pants said:


Dropbear said:

Be open-minded and be willing to alter your beliefs with new evidence.

I wonder about the wording to that. I don’t like the word belief, conjures up ideas of faith.

Don’t cling to what you believed to be true in the face of new evidence to contrary.

Yer…

I am trying to remember who used to say, if your theory contradicts experimental evidence, it’s wrong (bad paraphrase). May have been Feynman

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 20:03:42
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 650682
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

It doesn’t matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn’t matter how smart you are. If it doesn’t agree with experiment, it’s wrong.

feynman

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 20:04:34
From: Dropbear
ID: 650684
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

ChrispenEvan said:


It doesn’t matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn’t matter how smart you are. If it doesn’t agree with experiment, it’s wrong.

feynman

Thanks – that’s the one

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 20:05:42
From: Dropbear
ID: 650685
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

Dropbear said:


ChrispenEvan said:

It doesn’t matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn’t matter how smart you are. If it doesn’t agree with experiment, it’s wrong.

feynman

Thanks – that’s the one

Worthy of commandment #1 :)

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 20:06:03
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 650686
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

feynman is one of my faves.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 20:06:12
From: wookiemeister
ID: 650687
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

2 let the mob decide

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 20:08:35
From: Dropbear
ID: 650688
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

ChrispenEvan said:


feynman is one of my faves.

Indeed, like Sagan after him, he was an entertaining stoner

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 20:09:11
From: party_pants
ID: 650689
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

Dropbear said:


Dropbear said:

ChrispenEvan said:

It doesn’t matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn’t matter how smart you are. If it doesn’t agree with experiment, it’s wrong.

feynman

Thanks – that’s the one

Worthy of commandment #1 :)

Yeah, I’d go along with that.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 20:48:11
From: wookiemeister
ID: 650702
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

wookiemeister said:


2 let the mob decide

that was Jesus’ problem , no people skills

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 20:59:02
From: transition
ID: 650703
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

Only touched on one problem with statement 1. There’re more.

Statement 2.

“Strive to understand what is most likely to be true, not to believe what you wish to be true”

It’s a confused statement.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 21:01:49
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 650704
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

Not being a secular humanist I cant help you to work out your moral compass but good luck and God speed.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 21:24:56
From: Dropbear
ID: 650706
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

Peak Warming Man said:


Not being a secular humanist

Give it time, and a bit of thought

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 21:25:20
From: sibeen
ID: 650707
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

Always store beer in a dark place.

By the data to date, there is only one animal in the Galaxy dangerous to man—man himself. So he must supply his own indispensable competition. He has no enemy to help him.

Men are more sentimental than women. It blurs their thinking.

Certainly the game is rigged. Don’t let that stop you; if you don’t bet, you can’t win.

Any priest or shaman must be presumed guilty until proved innocent.

Always listen to experts. They’ll tell you what can’t be done and why. Then do it!

Get a shot off fast. This upsets him long enough to let you make your second shot perfect.

There is no conclusive evidence of life after death. But there is no evidence of any sort against it. Soon enough you will know. So why fret about it?

If it can’t be expressed in figures, it is not science; it is opinion.

It has long been known that one horse can run faster than another—but which one? Differences are crucial.

A fake fortune teller can be tolerated. But an authentic soothsayer should be shot on sight. Cassandra did not get half the kicking around she deserved .

Delusions are often functional. A mother’s opinions about her children’s beauty, intelligence, goodness, et cetera ad nauseam, keep her from drowning them at birth.

Most “scientists” are bottle washers and button sorters.

A “pacifist male” is a contradiction in terms. Most self-described “pacifists” are not pacific; they simply assume false colors. When the wind changes, they hoist the Jolly Roger.

Nursing does not diminish the beauty of a woman’s breasts; it enhances their charm by making them look lived in and happy.

A generation which ignores history has no past—and no future.

A poet who reads his verse in public may have other nasty habits.

What a wonderful world it is that has girls in!

Small change can often be found under seat cushions.

History does not record anywhere at any time a religion that has any rational basis. Religion is a crutch for people not strong enough to stand up to the unknown without help. But, like dandruff, most people do have a religion and spend time and money on it and seem to derive considerable pleasure from fiddling with it.

It’s amazing how much “mature wisdom” resembles being too tired.

If you don’t like yourself, you can’t like other people.

Your enemy is never a villain in his own eyes. Keep this in mind; it may offer a way to make him your friend. If not, you can kill him without hate—and quickly.

A motion to adjourn is always in order.

No state has an inherent right to survive through conscript troops and, in the long run, no state ever has. Roman matrons used to say to their sons: “Come back with your shield, or on it.” Later on this custom declined. So did Rome.

Of all the strange “crimes that human beings have legislated out of nothing, “blasphemy” is the most amazing—with “obscenity” and “indecent exposure” fighting it out for second and third place.

Cheops’ Law: Nothing is ever built on schedule or within budget.

It is better to copulate than never.

All societies are based on rules to protect pregnant women and young children. All else is surplus age, excrescence, adornment, luxury or folly which can—and must—be dumped in emergency to preserve this prime function. As racial survival is the only universal morality, no other basic is possible. Attempts to formulate a “perfect society” on any foundation other than “women and children first!” is not only witless, it is automatically genocidal. Nevertheless, starry-eyed idealists (all of them male) have tried endlessly—and no doubt will keep on trying.

All men are created unequal.

Money is a powerful aphrodisiac. But flowers work almost as well.

A brute kills for pleasure. A fool kills from hate.

There is only one way to console a widow. But remember the risk.

When the need arises—and it does—you must be able too shoot your own dog. Don’t farm it out—that doesn’t make it nicer, it makes it worse.

Everything in excess! To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks.

It may be better to be a live jackal than a dead lion, but it is better still to be a live lion. And usually easier.

One man’s theology is another man’s belly laugh.

Sex should be friendly. Otherwise stick to mechanical toys; it’s more sanitary.

Men rarely (if ever) manage to dream up a God superior to themselves. Most Gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child.

Never appeal to a man’s “better nature.” He may not have one. Invoking his “self—interest” gives you more leverage.

Little girls, like butterflies, need no excuse.

You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don’t ever count on having both at once.

Avoid making irrevocable decisions while tired or hungry. N.B.: Circumstances can force your hand. So think ahead!

Place your clothes and weapons where you can find them in the dark.

An elephant: A mouse built to government specifications.

Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded—here and there, now and then—are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty. This is known as “bad luck.”

In a mature society, “civil servant” is semantically equal to “civil master.”

When a place gets crowded enough to require ID’s, social collapse is not far away. It is time to go elsewhere. The best thing about space travel is that it made it possible to go elsewhere.

A woman is not property, and husbands who think otherwise are living in a dreamworld.

The second best thing about space travel is that the distances involved make war very difficult, usually impractical, and almost always unnecessary. This is probably a loss for most people, since war is our races most popular diversion, one which gives purpose and color to dull and stupid lives. But it is a great boon to the intelligent man who fights only when he must—never for sport.

A zygote is a gamete’s way of producing more gamete’s. This may be the purpose of the universe.

There are hidden contradictions within the minds of people who “love nature” while deploring the “artificialities” with which “Man has spoiled ‘Nature.” The obvious contradiction lies in their choice of words, which imply that Man and his artifacts are not part of “Nature”—but beavers and their damns are. But the contradictions go deeper than this prima-facie absurdity. In declaring his love for a beaver damn (erected by beavers for beaver’s purposes) and his hatred for dams erected by men (for the purpose of men) the “Naturist” reveals his hatred for his own race—i.e., his own self-hatred. In the case of “Naturists” such self—hatred is understandable; they are such a sorry lot. But hatred is too strong an emotion to feel toward them; pity and contempt are the most they rate. As for me, willy-nilly I am a man, not a beaver, and H. Sapiens is the only race I have or can have. Fortunately for me, I like being part of a race made up of men and women— it strikes me as a fine arrangement and perfectly “natural.” Believe it or not, there were “Naturists” who opposed the first flight to old Earth’s Moon as being “unnatural” and a “despoiling of nature.”

No man is an island—” Much as we may feel and act as individuals, our race is a single organism, always growing and branching—which must be pruned regularly to be healthy. This necessity need not be argued; anyone with eyes can see that any organism which grows without limit always dies within •its own poisons. The only rational question is whether pruning is best done before or after birth. Being an incurable sentimentalist I favor the former of these methods—killing makes me queasy, even when it’s a case of “He’s dead and I’m alive and that’s the way I wanted it to be.” But this may be a matter of taste. Some shamans think that it is better to be killed in a war, or to die in childbirth, or to starve in misery, than never to have lived at all. They may be right. But I don’t have to like it—and I don’t.

Democracy is based on the assumption that a million men are wiser than one man. How’s that again? I missed something.

Autocracy is based on the assumption that one man is wiser than a million men. Let’s play that over again, too. Who decides?

Any government will work if authority and responsibility are equal and coordinate. This does not insure “good” government; it simply insures that it will work. But such governments are rare—most people want to run things but want no part of the blame. This used to be called the “backseat-driver syndrome.”

What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”—what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!

God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent-it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks, please. Cash and in small bills.

Courage is the compliment of fear. A man who is fearless cannot be courageous. (He is also a fool.)

The two highest achievements of the human mind are the twin concepts of “loyalty” and “duty.” Whenever these twin concepts fall into disrepute—get out of there fast. You may possibly save yourself, but it is too late to save that society. It is doomed.

People who go broke in a big way never miss any meals. It is the poor jerk who is shy half a slug who must tighten his belt.

The truth of a proposition has nothing to do with it’s credibility. And vice versa.

Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human. At best he is a tolerable sub-human who has learned to wear shoes, bathe, and not make messes in the house.

Moving parts in rubbing contact require lubrication to avoid excessive wear. Honorifics and formal politeness provide lubrication where people rub together. Often the very young, the untraveled, the naive, the unsophisticated deplore these formalities as “empty,” “meaningless,” or “dishonest,” and scorn to use them. No matter how “pure” their motives, they thereby throw sand into machinery that does not work too well at best.

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects!

The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had Time Enough, he could Love all of the majority who are decent and just.

Masturbation is cheap, clean, convenient, and free of any possibility of wrong-doing—and you don’t have to go home in the cold. But it’s lonely.

Beware of altrusim. It is based on self-deception, the root of all evil.

If tempted by something that feels “altruistic” examine your motives and root out that self-deception. Then, if you still want to do it, wallow in it!

The most preposterous notion that H. Sapiens has ever dreamed up is that the Lord God of Creation, Shaper and Ruler of all the Universes, wants the saccharine adoration of His creatures, can be swayed by their prayers, and becomes petulant if He does not receive this flattery. Yet this absurd fantasy, without a shred of evidence to bolster it, pays all the expenses of the oldest, largest, and least productive industry in all of history.

The second most preposterous notion is that copulation is inherently sinful.

Writing is not necessarily something to be ashamed of—but do it in private and wash your hands afterwards.

$100 placed at 7% interest compounded quarterly for 200 years will increase to more ‘than $100,000,000—by which time it will be worth nothing.

Dear, don’t bore him with trivia or burden him with your past mistakes. The happiest way to deal with a man is never to tell him anything he does not need to know.

Darling, a true lady takes off her dignity with her clothes and does her whorish best. At other times you can be as modest and dignified as your persona requires.

Everybody lies about sex.

If men were the automatons that behaviorists claim they are, the behaviorist psychologists could not have invented the amazing nonsense called “behaviorist psychology.” So they are wrong from scratch—as clever and as wrong as phlogiston chemists.

The shamans are forever yacking about their snake-oil “miracles.” I prefer the real McCoy—a pregnant woman.

If the universe has any purpose more important than topping the woman you love and making a baby with her hearty help, I’ve never heard of it.

Thou shalt remember the 11th commandment and keep it Wholly.

A touchstone to determine the actual worth of an “intellectual”—find out how he feels about astrology.

Taxes are not levied for the benefit of the taxed.

There is no such thing as ‘‘Social Gambling. Either you are there to cut the other blokes heart out and eat it—or you’re a sucker. If you don’t like this choice—don’t gamble.

When a ship lifts, all bills are paid. No regrets.

The first time I was a drill’ instructor I was too inexperienced for the job—the things I taught those lads must have got some of them killed. War is too serious a matter to be taught by the inexperienced.

A competent and self confident person is incapable of jealousy in anything. Jealousy is invariably a symptom of neurotic insecurity.

Money is the sincerest of all flattery. Women love to be flattered. So do men.

You live and learn or you don’t live long.

Whenever women have insisted on absolute equality with men, they have invariably wound up on the dirty end of the stick. What they are and what they can do makes them superior to men, and their proper tactic is to demand special privileges, all the traffic will bear. They should never settle merely for equality. For women, “equality” is a disaster.

Peace is an extension of war by political means. Plenty of elbowroom is pleasanter—and much safer.

One man’s “magic” is another man’s engineering. “Supernatural” is a null word.

The phrase “we (I) (you) simply must—”designates something that need not be done. “That goes without saying” is a red warning. “Of course” means you had best check it yourself. These small—change cliches and others like them, when read correctly, are reliable channel markers.

Do not handicap your children by making their lives easy.

Rub her feet.

If you happen to be one of the fretful who can do creative work, never force an idea; you’ll abort it if you do. Be patient and you’ll give birth to it when the time is ripe. Learn to wait.

Never crowd youngsters about their private affairs—sex especially. When they are growing up they are nerve ends all over, and resent (quite properly) any invasions of their privacy. Oh sure, they’ll make mistakes—but that’s their business, not yours. (You made your own mistakes, did you not?)

Never underestimate the power of human stupidity!

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 21:31:21
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 650709
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

Dropbear said:


Peak Warming Man said:

Not being a secular humanist

Give it time, and a bit of thought

Could you just leave me the brochure, I’ll read it late, and shut the gate on your way out thanks.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 21:40:11
From: Dropbear
ID: 650712
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

Peak Warming Man said:


Dropbear said:

Peak Warming Man said:

Not being a secular humanist

Give it time, and a bit of thought

Could you just leave me the brochure, I’ll read it late, and shut the gate on your way out thanks.

Need anything done around the house ?

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 21:41:46
From: sibeen
ID: 650713
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

My previous post was an excerpt from the notes of Lazarus Long, a novel by Robert Heinlein.

As a rather impressionable young man back in 1979 this novel made a huge impression on me, and was one of the straws that tipped me over into the atheist I became. Haven’t ever rescinded that decision, and still love the memories that book brings.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 21:45:22
From: sibeen
ID: 650714
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

sibeen said:


My previous post was an excerpt from the notes of Lazarus Long, a novel by Robert Heinlein.

Eeek, badly bloody worded.

My previous post was an excerpt from the novel “Time Enough for Love” , a novel by Robert Heinlein; which includes the above quotes from Lazarus Long.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 22:18:21
From: transition
ID: 650719
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

>My previous post was an excerpt from the novel “Time Enough for Love” , a novel by Robert Heinlein; which includes the above quotes from Lazarus Long.

and a very good read, that you posted

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2014 23:19:39
From: transition
ID: 650759
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

2. Strive to understand what is most likely to be true, not to believe what you wish to be true.

Above leans some on ‘wish’, presumably one can wish to understand what is most likely to be true, and as things go individuals and assorted individuals working toward whatever for the future do hope for something, and that wishing for something often accompanies views regards what is most likely to be true.

3. The scientific method is the most reliable way of understanding the natural world.

There has to be some features of cognition that incline this, that predate terms like scientific method, rationalism, logic etc – predate any formalisms – so whatever it is didn’t originate from the word-concept, and the ‘constructions’ that come with those terms.

Marginally on topic Q – Do humans guess at each others internal mental states and motivations and such using ‘the scientific method’?

4. Every person has the right to control over their body.

Fair enough, though i’d replace ‘every person’ with ‘individuals’, and hope the latter word is not entirely absent on the trip to the bottom here.

5. God is not necessary to be a good person or to live a full and meaningful life.

True, but as a metaphor for consciousness and other things it may be useful.

6. Be mindful of the consequences of all your actions and recognize that you must take responsibility for them.

The actions/consequences thing does lend to some interesting behavioural influences, and ideology and ideological controls. Probably worth mentioning that behavioural norms and the law too are there to limit responsibilities and keep things well greased.

7. Treat others as you would want them to treat you, and can reasonably expect them to want to be treated. Think about their perspective.

Space, operating space. Beyond some point to expect others to treat you like you treat them is probably madness, but it does have a qualifier in ‘and can reasonably expect them to want to be treated’ if it were added ‘and can reasonably expect them to want to treat you’.

‘Think about their perspective’ is good, particularly the idea another has a perspective, somewhat fluid, unconcluded, unfixed even. Often quite a lot of functional dither in perspective, the fleshy things have internal mental states.

8. We have the responsibility to consider others, including future generations.

Those that lived and died on the trip here too, including prehuman life.

9. There is no one right way to live.

‘Right way’ and ‘live’ seem to be suggesting some singular right way to live, it’s not entirely clear. There are ideas out there, norms, conventions and laws and enforcements to do with going wayward of the range of accepted right ways to live.

10. Leave the world a better place than you found it.

Fair enough. Quite a range of ideas of what ‘a better place’ might be, how to do that, and not everyone contributes their best that way through worldliness, well the core need not be a big world view.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/12/2014 10:53:19
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 652475
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

Dropbear said:


So what do we think?

Atheists have written their own version of the ten commandments. These commandments were chosen from submissions to Atheist Mind Humanist Heart’s (AMHH) Re-Think Prize, a crowdsourcing project.
Read more at http://www.inquisitr.com/1692212/atheists-rewrite-ten-commandments-mythbusters-adam-savage-judged-new-commands/#K6xLGkbTOVulxlA1.99


Be open-minded and be willing to alter your beliefs with new evidence.

Strive to understand what is most likely to be true, not to believe what you wish to be true.

The scientific method is the most reliable way of understanding the natural world.

Every person has the right to control over their body.

God is not necessary to be a good person or to live a full and meaningful life.

Be mindful of the consequences of all your actions and recognize that you must take responsibility for them.

Treat others as you would want them to treat you, and can reasonably expect them to want to be treated. Think about their perspective.

We have the responsibility to consider others, including future generations.

There is no one right way to live.

Leave the world a better place than you found it.


I don’t see anything in the above preventing me from torturing animals. I have a few tenets that I try to follow.

1. In everything you do, do more good than harm.

2. Work towards improving the quality of life of humans and all other living beings.

3. Have no enemies.

> Treat others as you would want them to treat you

I run into serious problems because I follow this too slavishly. For instance, I can’t teach someone to get a new job if I don’t want or need to get a new job myself, even if getting a new job would be the best possible thing for them. “Treat others as you would want them to treat you” misses the differences in individual talents and circumstances between individuals. Let me try a more extreme example – I might like to be fed chocolate but that doesn’t mean that I should feed my cat or dog chocolate, and just because I can’t stand dog food doesn’t mean that I shouldn’t feed it to a dog.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/12/2014 10:57:01
From: roughbarked
ID: 652477
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

mollwollfumble said:


Dropbear said:

So what do we think?

Atheists have written their own version of the ten commandments. These commandments were chosen from submissions to Atheist Mind Humanist Heart’s (AMHH) Re-Think Prize, a crowdsourcing project.
Read more at http://www.inquisitr.com/1692212/atheists-rewrite-ten-commandments-mythbusters-adam-savage-judged-new-commands/#K6xLGkbTOVulxlA1.99


Be open-minded and be willing to alter your beliefs with new evidence.

Strive to understand what is most likely to be true, not to believe what you wish to be true.

The scientific method is the most reliable way of understanding the natural world.

Every person has the right to control over their body.

God is not necessary to be a good person or to live a full and meaningful life.

Be mindful of the consequences of all your actions and recognize that you must take responsibility for them.

Treat others as you would want them to treat you, and can reasonably expect them to want to be treated. Think about their perspective.

We have the responsibility to consider others, including future generations.

There is no one right way to live.

Leave the world a better place than you found it.


I don’t see anything in the above preventing me from torturing animals. I have a few tenets that I try to follow.

1. In everything you do, do more good than harm.

2. Work towards improving the quality of life of humans and all other living beings.

3. Have no enemies.

> Treat others as you would want them to treat you

I run into serious problems because I follow this too slavishly. For instance, I can’t teach someone to get a new job if I don’t want or need to get a new job myself, even if getting a new job would be the best possible thing for them. “Treat others as you would want them to treat you” misses the differences in individual talents and circumstances between individuals. Let me try a more extreme example – I might like to be fed chocolate but that doesn’t mean that I should feed my cat or dog chocolate, and just because I can’t stand dog food doesn’t mean that I shouldn’t feed it to a dog.

I think you are going to untenable extremes.

As you would want them to treat you would at first be, with understanding.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/12/2014 11:11:58
From: transition
ID: 652482
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

>I think you are going to untenable extremes.
As you would want them to treat you would at first be, with understanding

can’t have expectational devices brutalizing the orders of intentionality, have ones thoughts and views insteaded, is that what you mean, master roughbarked

Reply Quote

Date: 28/12/2014 11:26:04
From: Dropbear
ID: 652483
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

I’m not sure about “have no enemies”. Even if you only do “good”, you’ll have enemies.

Strive to be at peace with others, in so far as you can without abandoning your principles.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/12/2014 11:42:48
From: roughbarked
ID: 652491
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

Dropbear said:


I’m not sure about “have no enemies”. Even if you only do “good”, you’ll have enemies.

Strive to be at peace with others, in so far as you can without abandoning your principles.

You sound like an understanding type bloke.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/12/2014 11:44:00
From: roughbarked
ID: 652492
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

transition said:


>I think you are going to untenable extremes.
As you would want them to treat you would at first be, with understanding

can’t have expectational devices brutalizing the orders of intentionality, have ones thoughts and views insteaded, is that what you mean, master roughbarked

start a sentence with a negative? incomprehensible. The rest of it was OK though.
Reply Quote

Date: 28/12/2014 12:21:22
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 652507
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

Dropbear said:


I’m not sure about “have no enemies”. Even if you only do “good”, you’ll have enemies.

Strive to be at peace with others, in so far as you can without abandoning your principles.

The “have no enemies” easiest way is that it takes two to argue. Respect is a two way street, respect someone and they’ll respect you back. The importance of this is that if you divide the people of the world into “us” and “them”, the most ethical system of behaviour is where the group of people labeled as “us” is as large as possible and that group of people labeled “them” is as small as possible. For instance, to Papillon the murderer, the only people he included in “us” were his blood brothers and to the Godfather the only people included in “us” were counted as family – all else was “them”. The Papillon and Godfather ethics are not those of secular humanists.

I MUST add that to “only do good” is a shockingly bad mistake. Every action has both good and bad consequences, the “only do good” ethical system is therefore equivalent to “do nothing”, which is a horrible ethics. Or to put it even more strongly, because “only do good” is equivalent to “do nothing”, it is also exactly equivalent to “only do bad”. For good ethics you need to maximise net good, maximise the difference between the good and the bad consequences of your actions. The postmodern neo-luddites who call themselves “greens” and “activists” and promote “do nothing” ethics are not secular humanists.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/12/2014 12:28:40
From: roughbarked
ID: 652510
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

mollwollfumble said:


Dropbear said:

I’m not sure about “have no enemies”. Even if you only do “good”, you’ll have enemies.

Strive to be at peace with others, in so far as you can without abandoning your principles.

The “have no enemies” easiest way is that it takes two to argue. Respect is a two way street, respect someone and they’ll respect you back. The importance of this is that if you divide the people of the world into “us” and “them”, the most ethical system of behaviour is where the group of people labeled as “us” is as large as possible and that group of people labeled “them” is as small as possible. For instance, to Papillon the murderer, the only people he included in “us” were his blood brothers and to the Godfather the only people included in “us” were counted as family – all else was “them”. The Papillon and Godfather ethics are not those of secular humanists.

I MUST add that to “only do good” is a shockingly bad mistake. Every action has both good and bad consequences, the “only do good” ethical system is therefore equivalent to “do nothing”, which is a horrible ethics. Or to put it even more strongly, because “only do good” is equivalent to “do nothing”, it is also exactly equivalent to “only do bad”. For good ethics you need to maximise net good, maximise the difference between the good and the bad consequences of your actions. The postmodern neo-luddites who call themselves “greens” and “activists” and promote “do nothing” ethics are not secular humanists.

if you have no interpretation for enemy or do good, then you are on the way to a better understanding.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/12/2014 12:46:34
From: PM 2Ring
ID: 652515
Subject: re: The secular humanists ten commandments

mollwollfumble said:


I MUST add that to “only do good” is a shockingly bad mistake. Every action has both good and bad consequences, the “only do good” ethical system is therefore equivalent to “do nothing”, which is a horrible ethics. Or to put it even more strongly, because “only do good” is equivalent to “do nothing”, it is also exactly equivalent to “only do bad”. For good ethics you need to maximise net good, maximise the difference between the good and the bad consequences of your actions. The postmodern neo-luddites who call themselves “greens” and “activists” and promote “do nothing” ethics are not secular humanists.

Trolley problem
Wikipedia said:


The trolley problem is a thought experiment in ethics. The general form of the problem is this: There is a runaway trolley barreling down the railway tracks. Ahead, on the tracks, there are five people tied up and unable to move. The trolley is headed straight for them. You are standing some distance off in the train yard, next to a lever. If you pull this lever, the trolley will switch to a different set of tracks. However, you notice that there is one person on the side track.

You have two options:
(1) Do nothing, and the trolley kills the five people on the main track.
(2) Pull the lever, diverting the trolley onto the side track where it will kill one person.
Which is the correct choice?

The problem was first introduced by Philippa Foot in 1967, but also extensively analysed by Judith Thomson, Peter Unger, and Frances Kamm as recently as 1996. Outside of the domain of traditional philosophical discussion, the trolley problem has been a significant feature in the fields of cognitive science and, more recently, of neuroethics. It has also been a topic on various TV shows dealing with human psychology.

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