Date: 31/12/2014 10:28:57
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 653716
Subject: Non-Euclidean geometry and structural strength.

Non-Euclidean geometry and structural strength.

Consider the hollow sphere of metal. It’s strong, far stronger than a flat sheet of metal of the same thickness. There are several ways to explain this, one of these is that a sphere has a geometrical resistance to being bent. If a load is placed on the sphere, the part nearest the load is in compression and parts further away are in tension (known as hoop tension) and the sphere resists the load until the combination of compression and tension causes the material to compress and stretch enough for it finally to buckle. A sphere supports a very much higher buckling load than a plate or cylinder of the same thickness.

This geometric resistance to being bent is due to the sphere’s surface being a non-Euclidean geometry. A sphere’s surface is described by Riemennian geometry with positive curvature, any straight lines (ie. geodesics) forming a triangle on the surface will have angles at the corners that add up to more than 180 degrees.

A surface doesn’t have to be flat in order to have zero curvature. An open cylinder has zero curvature everywhere. In mathematical terms, every surface with flat curvature is known as ‘ruled’.

Given that flat surfaces are extremely weak, I find it startling and depressing how many structures are made from combinations of flat and cylindrical surfaces. Combining flat surfaces gives a structure that is stronger than individual flat surfaces, but still far weaker than surfaces with nonzero curvature.

It’s so rare for non-zero curvature to be used in structural design that it’s easily possible to list all the best examples. Domes in building construction were already in decline in the Gothic period from the 12th to 16th centuries. Modern geodesic domes are not the same, made to approximate a dome shape using flat panels. The TWA terminal in New York is one of the extremely few modern buildings that rely on non-Euclidean geometry for strength. Russian spacecraft such as Soyuz make great use of spherical shapes for strength. Car panels have a non-Euclidean shape, but even there in many cases the three-dimensional curvature of the shape is mere window dressing, rather than an essential part of the structural strength. The base of PET bottles uses both positive and negative curvature to achieve a high strengh not possible with a cylinder attached to a flat base.

Another less obvious example is diamond plate. This was originally designed as a cheap non-slip flooring, but it does rely on non-Euclidean geometry for strength. Diamond plate has the look to me of a product that was specifically done to avoid a patent. There are other more obvious combinations of bumps that give slightly stronger plates, usually based on tessellations, the important point for all strong arrangements of bumps is that there is no straight line on the surface along which the surface curvature in nearly zero. So, for instance, bumps must not be arranged in a triangular pattern.

So, how else can non-Euclidean geometry be used in construction? One simple example would be to create strong lightweight panels by spot-welding (or gluing) two diamond plates together with bumps touching bumps. Whether made of steel or aluminium, these made in different thicknesses would be suitable for a wide range of applications in making, for instance, lightweight floors of high-rise buildings and major parts of big trucks and other heavy machinery. For a non-structural application, note that these panels would make superb heat exchangers.

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Date: 31/12/2014 11:08:48
From: Cymek
ID: 653732
Subject: re: Non-Euclidean geometry and structural strength.

What about spheres inside two flat panels to re-enforce floor/roof panelling

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Date: 31/12/2014 18:13:20
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 653892
Subject: re: Non-Euclidean geometry and structural strength.

Not entirely relevant but a mate of mine is an acoustic engineer, from Malaysia.
Years ago when I was there we were talking about how to make better speakers and I thought perhaps that it might be possible to build a much stiffer cone or flat cone than the current materials, but from carbon.
Instead of a simple carbon sheet, make it a very thin sheet but a honeycomb type and pressurise the internal structure as that will stiffen it up quite a lot. A bit like the difference between a softdrink can that’s open compared to unopened.

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Date: 31/12/2014 21:54:21
From: macx
ID: 653968
Subject: re: Non-Euclidean geometry and structural strength.

Been done!

“Although the construction details of the Chobham Common armour remain a secret, it has been described as being composed of ceramic tiles encased within a metal matrix and bonded to a backing plate and several elastic layers. Due to the extreme hardness of the ceramics used, they offer superior resistance against shaped charges such as high explosive anti-tank (HEAT) rounds and they shatter kinetic energy penetrators. Only the M1 Abrams, Challenger 1, and Challenger 2 tanks have been disclosed as being thus armoured. The armour was first tested in the context of the development of a British prototype vehicle, the FV4211. Despite being a British invention, the armour type was first implemented on the American Abrams tank.”

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“The concept of ceramic armour goes back to 1918, when Major Neville Monroe Hopkins discovered that a plate of ballistic steel was much more resistant to penetration if covered with a thin (1–2 millimetres) layer of enamel.

Since the early sixties there were, in the US, extensive research programmes ongoing aimed at investigating the prospects of employing composite ceramic materials as vehicle armour. This research mainly focused on the use of an aluminium metal matrix composite reinforced by silicon carbide whiskers, to be produced in the form of large sheets. The reinforced light metal sheets were to be sandwiched between steel layers. This arrangement had the advantage of having a good multiple-hit capability and of being able to be curved, allowing the main armour to benefit from a sloped armour effect. However, this composite with a high metal content was primarily intended to increase the protection against KE-penetrators for a given armour weight; its performance against shaped charge attack was mediocre and would have to be improved by means of a laminate spaced armour effect, as researched by the Germans within the joint MBT-70 project.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chobham_armour

see also:

Structure Ceramic armour tiles of MEXAS

“The exact composition of MEXAS is secret, but it is known that MEXAS consist of a splinter foil-like specialized Nylon, ceramics (Aluminium oxide), and a backing like kevlar. MEXAS also includes spall-liner. MEXAS is normally not the only protection of a vehicle, it is normally overlaid on rolled homogeneous armour.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MEXAS

and….

AMAP is making use of new advanced steel alloys, Aluminium-Titanium alloys, nanometric steels, ceramics and nano-ceramics. The new high-hardened steel needs 30% less thickness to offer the same protection level as ARMOX500Z High Hard Armour steel. While Titanium requires only 58% as much weight as rolled homogeneous armour (RHA) for reaching the same level of protection, Mat 7720 new, a newly developed Aluminium-Titanium alloy, needs only 38% of the weight. That means that this alloy is more than twice as protective as RHA of the same weight.

AMAP is also making use of new nano-ceramics, which are harder and lighter than current ceramics, while having multi-hit capability. Normal ceramic tiles and a liner backing have a mass-efficiency (EM) value of 3 compared to normal steel armour, while it fulfills STANAG 4569. The new nano-crystalline ceramic materials should increase the hardness compared to current ceramics by 70% and the weight reduction is 30%, therefore the EM value is larger than 4. Furthermore the higher fracture toughness increases the general multi-hit capability. Some AMAP-modules might consist of this new ceramic tiles glued on a backing liner and overlaid by a cover, a concept which is also used by MEXAS. Lightweight SLAT armour is also part of the AMAP family. In excess new nano-ceramic armour overlaying a vehicle’s base armour, which is backed up by a spall-liner, can archieve a weight reduction of more than 40% to meet the Level 3 of STANAG 4569. Furthermore AMAP’s glue and lining components are working efficiently even at high temperatures (like 80 °C (176 °F)).

AMAP is a modular protection concept, therefore several modules, some of them in different variants according the required protection level, are formed. The efficiency may be increased if more types of AMAP-modules are used.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Modular_Armor_Protection

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Happy New Year to y’all

macx

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Date: 31/12/2014 23:00:30
From: Bubblecar
ID: 653978
Subject: re: Non-Euclidean geometry and structural strength.

HNY macx :)

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Date: 1/01/2015 09:33:28
From: Ian
ID: 654146
Subject: re: Non-Euclidean geometry and structural strength.

>It’s so rare for non-zero curvature to be used in structural design that it’s easily possible to list all the best examples.

The most common use of large scale spherical architecture in recent times would be in sports stadia which are continuing to be built.

The Oita Bank Dome in Japan and the Singapore Sportshub are two stunning examples.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ōita_Bank_Dome


http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore_Sports_Hub

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Date: 1/01/2015 09:35:40
From: Postpocelipse
ID: 654147
Subject: re: Non-Euclidean geometry and structural strength.

Ian said:


>It’s so rare for non-zero curvature to be used in structural design that it’s easily possible to list all the best examples.

The most common use of large scale spherical architecture in recent times would be in sports stadia which are continuing to be built.

The Oita Bank Dome in Japan and the Singapore Sportshub are two stunning examples.

!http://worldofbuildings.worldofbuildings.org/bldg_images/2494-m02cy2dd.jpg

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ōita_Bank_Dome


!http://images.gizmag.com/hero/singapore_sportshub.jpg

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore_Sports_Hub

Structurally aren’t these geodesic domes?

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Date: 1/01/2015 09:36:56
From: Carmen_Sandiego
ID: 654148
Subject: re: Non-Euclidean geometry and structural strength.

Postpocelipse said:


Ian said:

>It’s so rare for non-zero curvature to be used in structural design that it’s easily possible to list all the best examples.

The most common use of large scale spherical architecture in recent times would be in sports stadia which are continuing to be built.

The Oita Bank Dome in Japan and the Singapore Sportshub are two stunning examples.

!http://worldofbuildings.worldofbuildings.org/bldg_images/2494-m02cy2dd.jpg

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ōita_Bank_Dome


!http://images.gizmag.com/hero/singapore_sportshub.jpg

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore_Sports_Hub

Structurally aren’t these geodesic domes?

No. :)

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Date: 1/01/2015 09:41:49
From: Postpocelipse
ID: 654150
Subject: re: Non-Euclidean geometry and structural strength.

Carmen_Sandiego said:


Postpocelipse said:

Ian said:

>It’s so rare for non-zero curvature to be used in structural design that it’s easily possible to list all the best examples.

The most common use of large scale spherical architecture in recent times would be in sports stadia which are continuing to be built.

The Oita Bank Dome in Japan and the Singapore Sportshub are two stunning examples.

!http://worldofbuildings.worldofbuildings.org/bldg_images/2494-m02cy2dd.jpg

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ōita_Bank_Dome


!http://images.gizmag.com/hero/singapore_sportshub.jpg

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore_Sports_Hub

Structurally aren’t these geodesic domes?

No. :)

Sorry. Wrong term. I am referring to the framework visible on the Singapore structure which resembles the panelling on framework that is refernced in the OP as not being spherically supportive. ie; the doming is appearance rather than structure.

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Date: 1/01/2015 09:52:35
From: Postpocelipse
ID: 654152
Subject: re: Non-Euclidean geometry and structural strength.

What is our technological size limit for building a true sphere?

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Date: 1/01/2015 10:01:32
From: wookiemeister
ID: 654154
Subject: re: Non-Euclidean geometry and structural strength.

someone at work saw a UFO this week supposedly , about a kilometre from the workshop

couldn’t get a picture – driving

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Date: 1/01/2015 10:01:55
From: wookiemeister
ID: 654155
Subject: re: Non-Euclidean geometry and structural strength.

wookiemeister said:


someone at work saw a UFO this week supposedly , about a kilometre from the workshop

couldn’t get a picture – driving


wrong thread

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Date: 1/01/2015 10:58:48
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 654162
Subject: re: Non-Euclidean geometry and structural strength.

Postpocelipse said:


Sorry. Wrong term. I am referring to the framework visible on the Singapore structure which resembles the panelling on framework that is refernced in the OP as not being spherically supportive. ie; the doming is appearance rather than structure.

I agree that he seemed to be saying that (although it wasn’t entirely clear), but if that is what he meant, he was wrong.

Provided the segments are small enough, a dome approximation made up of flat segments has negligible difference from a true dome.

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Date: 1/01/2015 11:03:26
From: Postpocelipse
ID: 654163
Subject: re: Non-Euclidean geometry and structural strength.

thanks Rev……

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Date: 2/01/2015 21:07:18
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 655009
Subject: re: Non-Euclidean geometry and structural strength.

Postpocelipse said:


What is our technological size limit for building a true sphere?

A hollow sphere I assume. That’s a fascinating question. In the distant past there were spheres built as pressure vessels that could hold perhaps 100 people.

Some planetariums have been nearly complete spheres, up to and perhaps exceeding 40 metres in diameter.

If spheres are allowed to be inflatable then they could be built much larger than that.

But let’s take an engineering approach and suppose the sphere is a pressure vessel of steel and needs to support an external load of a full atmosphere 101 kPa with vacuum inside. Adjusting Timoshenko’s formula for sphere buckling to take account of manufacturing tolerances, gives 1.01*10^5 / 2*10^11 = 0.3*(h/a)^2 where h is the wall thickness and a is the sphere radius. So for a wall thickness of 1 cm the sphere diameter is 15 metres, 2 cm to 30 metres etc. For lower loads the sphere diameter could be larger.

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