http://tofspot.blogspot.com.au/2013/08/the-great-ptolemaic-smackdown.html

Quite a long read, in nine parts.

Gets into the history of heliocentric models of the solar system and the smackdown of Galileo by the church. Galileo doesn’t come out smelling of roses btw.

I am reading a most excellent book, The Trial of the Cannibal Dog about Captain Cook in the south seas. Banks was a randy bugger, rooting all over the joint and even getting into threesomes. And the Moaris considered Cook a softcock when he decided to forgive a community that killed and ate one of his crew mates. His crew mates were not too happy as well. The Moaris were all set for a good battle in retribution, instead he invited them on board and gave them gifts.

Just finished reading a very informative book myself.

Australians Secret War, by Hal G.P. Colebatch

How unionists sabotaged our troops in World War II

My father fought at El Alamein,,, wish he was still alive to discuss it with

The_observer said:

Just finished reading a very informative book myself.

Australians Secret War, by Hal G.P. Colebatch

How unionists sabotaged our troops in World War II

My father fought at El Alamein,,, wish he was still alive to discuss it with

There has been considerable controversy over the references (or lack of) in the writing of that book.

buffy said:

The_observer said:

Just finished reading a very informative book myself.

Australians Secret War, by Hal G.P. Colebatch

How unionists sabotaged our troops in World War II

My father fought at El Alamein,,, wish he was still alive to discuss it with

There has been considerable controversy over the references (or lack of) in the writing of that book.

Yes, I’m sure it very controversial with the left, the commies & the union movement

http://www.crikey.com.au/2014/12/09/mike-carlton-the-shoddy-anti-union-fiction-that-won-the-pms-top-history-award/?wpmp_switcher=mobile

i worked at Artlook in perth for a while. the owner, Helen Weller, was a mate of Hals. pretty strange mob that lot. very “arty”.

buffy said:

http://www.crikey.com.au/2014/12/09/mike-carlton-the-shoddy-anti-union-fiction-that-won-the-pms-top-history-award/?wpmp_switcher=mobile

quoting Crikey & of all people Mike Carlton

if thats the best you can do don’t bother

Well, it’s just the other side of the Quadrant coin, who praised it, I gather.

Hal Colebatch’s new book, Australia’s Secret War, tells the shocking, true, but until now largely suppressed and hidden story of the war waged from 1939 to 1945 by a number of key Australian trade unions against their own society and against the men and women of their own country’s fighting forces at the time of its gravest peril. His conclusions are based on a broad range of sources, from letters and first-person interviews between the author and ex-servicemen to official and unofficial documents from the archives of World War II.

Between 1939 and 1945 virtually every major Australian warship, including at different times its entire force of cruisers, was targeted by strikes, go-slows and sabo­tage. Australian soldiers operating in New Guinea and the Pacific Islands went without food, radio equipment and munitions, and Aus­tralian warships sailed to and from combat zones without ammunition, because of strikes at home. Planned rescue missions for Australian prisoners-of-war in Borneo were abandoned because wharf strikes left rescuers without heavy weapons. Officers had to restrain Australian and American troops from killing striking trade unionists.

The_observer said:

Hal Colebatch’s new book, Australia’s Secret War, tells the shocking, true, but until now largely suppressed and hidden story of the war waged from 1939 to 1945 by a number of key Australian trade unions against their own society and against the men and women of their own country’s fighting forces at the time of its gravest peril. His conclusions are based on a broad range of sources, from letters and first-person interviews between the author and ex-servicemen to official and unofficial documents from the archives of World War II.

Between 1939 and 1945 virtually every major Australian warship, including at different times its entire force of cruisers, was targeted by strikes, go-slows and sabo­tage. Australian soldiers operating in New Guinea and the Pacific Islands went without food, radio equipment and munitions, and Aus­tralian warships sailed to and from combat zones without ammunition, because of strikes at home. Planned rescue missions for Australian prisoners-of-war in Borneo were abandoned because wharf strikes left rescuers without heavy weapons. Officers had to restrain Australian and American troops from killing striking trade unionists.

Who wrote that?

Linky linkys to comments from all sides:

http://honesthistory.net.au/wp/colebatch-hal-australias-secret-war/

buffy said:

The_observer said:

Hal Colebatch’s new book, Australia’s Secret War, tells the shocking, true, but until now largely suppressed and hidden story of the war waged from 1939 to 1945 by a number of key Australian trade unions against their own society and against the men and women of their own country’s fighting forces at the time of its gravest peril. His conclusions are based on a broad range of sources, from letters and first-person interviews between the author and ex-servicemen to official and unofficial documents from the archives of World War II.

Between 1939 and 1945 virtually every major Australian warship, including at different times its entire force of cruisers, was targeted by strikes, go-slows and sabo­tage. Australian soldiers operating in New Guinea and the Pacific Islands went without food, radio equipment and munitions, and Aus­tralian warships sailed to and from combat zones without ammunition, because of strikes at home. Planned rescue missions for Australian prisoners-of-war in Borneo were abandoned because wharf strikes left rescuers without heavy weapons. Officers had to restrain Australian and American troops from killing striking trade unionists.

Who wrote that?

Hal Colebatch.

I’m on to ‘Online Killers’ after i finished “Histories most unusual crimes” then I have another killers book to read.. then I might find some fiction to read (though that usually ends up terribly)

I just booked a holiday down south for the last week of jan since our QLD holiday has been put on hold until later in the year
so i should get some reading in while I am on the beach

buffy said:

Well, it’s just the other side of the Quadrant coin, who praised it, I gather.

the goings on by the unions is nothing shocking,,, at least to people who have an insight into their typical behaviour,,

go slows, strikes, demarcation, threats, violence, unreasonable demands & holding people to ransom, in this case the Australian armed forces, to get what they want.

the strikes are recorded in commonwealth year books.

Although shocking the book isn’t exactly a revelation to any half informed citizen

Arts said:

I’m on to ‘Online Killers’ after i finished “Histories most unusual crimes” then I have another killers book to read.. then I might find some fiction to read (though that usually ends up terribly)

I just booked a holiday down south for the last week of jan since our QLD holiday has been put on hold until later in the year
so i should get some reading in while I am on the beach

Did you end up getting the Chicago World’s Fair/serial killer book?

Divine Angel said:

Arts said:

I’m on to ‘Online Killers’ after i finished “Histories most unusual crimes” then I have another killers book to read.. then I might find some fiction to read (though that usually ends up terribly)

I just booked a holiday down south for the last week of jan since our QLD holiday has been put on hold until later in the year
so i should get some reading in while I am on the beach

Did you end up getting the Chicago World’s Fair/serial killer book?

yes.. it’s in the pile…

Having finished Orange is the New Black, I’m hoping to finally get through Shantaram.

The_observer said:

buffy said:

Well, it’s just the other side of the Quadrant coin, who praised it, I gather.

the goings on by the unions is nothing shocking,,, at least to people who have an insight into their typical behaviour,,

go slows, strikes, demarcation, threats, violence, unreasonable demands & holding people to ransom, in this case the Australian armed forces, to get what they want.

the strikes are recorded in commonwealth year books.

Although shocking the book isn’t exactly a revelation to any half informed citizen

It’s in the fiction section of the library.

I’m on to ‘Online Killers’ after i finished “Histories most unusual crimes” then I have another killers book to read..

your weird.

JudgeMental said:

I’m on to ‘Online Killers’ after i finished “Histories most unusual crimes” then I have another killers book to read..

your weird.

She’s just taking notes. Watch out at future puds nudge nudge wink wink.

Divine Angel said:

Having finished Orange is the New Black, I’m hoping to finally get through Shantaram.

Have you watched Archer?

JudgeMental said:

I’m on to ‘Online Killers’ after i finished “Histories most unusual crimes” then I have another killers book to read..

your weird.

You’re

no more hugs for arts. i shall require a 5 metre exclusion zone.

Dropbear said:

Divine Angel said:

Having finished Orange is the New Black, I’m hoping to finally get through Shantaram.

Have you watched Archer?

No, but I hear it’s pretty good.

Divine Angel said:

Dropbear said:

Divine Angel said:

Having finished Orange is the New Black, I’m hoping to finally get through Shantaram.

Have you watched Archer?

No, but I hear it’s pretty good.

It’s my sense of humour ;) so most will hate it :) heh

I’ll give it a go as a break from Extreme Couponing.

You’re

its a meme.

JudgeMental said:

You’re

its a meme.

A Dawkins meme

jjjust moi said:

The_observer said:

buffy said:

Well, it’s just the other side of the Quadrant coin, who praised it, I gather.

the goings on by the unions is nothing shocking,,, at least to people who have an insight into their typical behaviour,,

go slows, strikes, demarcation, threats, violence, unreasonable demands & holding people to ransom, in this case the Australian armed forces, to get what they want.

the strikes are recorded in commonwealth year books.

Although shocking the book isn’t exactly a revelation to any half informed citizen

It’s in the fiction section of the library.

Professor Ross Fitzgerald

Review of AUSTRALIA’S SECRET WAR: HOW UNIONS SABOTAGED OUR TROOPS IN WORLD WAR II BY HAL COLEBATCH
QUADRANT BOOKS
H/B, 2013, RRP $44.95 ISBN 9780980677874

It is useful to be reminded that, as a result of the Nazi-Soviet Non-Aggression Pact, signed on 21 August 1939, Hitler and Stalin were allies. This meant that, at that time, Australian Communists loyal to Moscow were obliged to support the German war machine.

As Hal G P Colebatch points out, in his provocative new book ‘Australia’s Secret War’, this arrangement lasted until Hitler invaded Russia on 22 June 1941. From then on, all members of the Communist Party of Australia and all militant communists in the trade union movement were supposed to actively support the Allied cause. But this, he argued, did not apply to all communist trade unionists, especially members of the Seamen’s Union and the Waterside Workers’ Union.

In this well-produced and copiously referenced book, Colebatch is at least half right. Until the Soviet Union entered the war in June 1941 communists were totally opposed to the war, and the waterside workers in particular were resentful about the tough way they had been treated by their bosses during the 1930s Depression.

After June 1941, some leading Western Australian communist union leaders like Paddy Troy in Fremantle, were heart and soul behind the Allied war effort, and did what they could to stop loafing and sabotage at the docks. But other communist unionists, in Townsville for example, remained utterly bloody-minded and seem to have been as bad as they are portrayed in ‘Australia’s Secret War’.

http://www.rossfitzgerald.com/2014/07/australias-secret-war/

should employ better librarians

its a meme.

it’s

JudgeMental said:

I’m on to ‘Online Killers’ after i finished “Histories most unusual crimes” then I have another killers book to read..

your weird.

maybe, but it’s just a hobby I enjoy learning about

jjjust moi said:

The_observer said:

buffy said:

Well, it’s just the other side of the Quadrant coin, who praised it, I gather.

the goings on by the unions is nothing shocking,,, at least to people who have an insight into their typical behaviour,,

go slows, strikes, demarcation, threats, violence, unreasonable demands & holding people to ransom, in this case the Australian armed forces, to get what they want.

the strikes are recorded in commonwealth year books.

Although shocking the book isn’t exactly a revelation to any half informed citizen

It’s in the fiction section of the library.

in any case just moi, I’m interested in knowing what exactly is written in the book (have you read it?) you would have trouble believing ?

The_observer said:

jjjust moi said:

The_observer said:

the goings on by the unions is nothing shocking,,, at least to people who have an insight into their typical behaviour,,

go slows, strikes, demarcation, threats, violence, unreasonable demands & holding people to ransom, in this case the Australian armed forces, to get what they want.

the strikes are recorded in commonwealth year books.

Although shocking the book isn’t exactly a revelation to any half informed citizen

It’s in the fiction section of the library.

Professor Ross Fitzgerald

Review of AUSTRALIA’S SECRET WAR: HOW UNIONS SABOTAGED OUR TROOPS IN WORLD WAR II BY HAL COLEBATCH
QUADRANT BOOKS
H/B, 2013, RRP $44.95 ISBN 9780980677874

It is useful to be reminded that, as a result of the Nazi-Soviet Non-Aggression Pact, signed on 21 August 1939, Hitler and Stalin were allies. This meant that, at that time, Australian Communists loyal to Moscow were obliged to support the German war machine.

As Hal G P Colebatch points out, in his provocative new book ‘Australia’s Secret War’, this arrangement lasted until Hitler invaded Russia on 22 June 1941. From then on, all members of the Communist Party of Australia and all militant communists in the trade union movement were supposed to actively support the Allied cause. But this, he argued, did not apply to all communist trade unionists, especially members of the Seamen’s Union and the Waterside Workers’ Union.

In this well-produced and copiously referenced book, Colebatch is at least half right. Until the Soviet Union entered the war in June 1941 communists were totally opposed to the war, and the waterside workers in particular were resentful about the tough way they had been treated by their bosses during the 1930s Depression.

After June 1941, some leading Western Australian communist union leaders like Paddy Troy in Fremantle, were heart and soul behind the Allied war effort, and did what they could to stop loafing and sabotage at the docks. But other communist unionists, in Townsville for example, remained utterly bloody-minded and seem to have been as bad as they are portrayed in ‘Australia’s Secret War’.

http://www.rossfitzgerald.com/2014/07/australias-secret-war/

should employ better librarians

Read what a true historian has to say: http://honesthistory.net.au/wp/who-are-the-liars-response-to-colebatch/

This topic blew up last year BTW.

wouldn’t bother JJLM, TO is just trolling.

The_observer said:

jjjust moi said:

It’s in the fiction section of the library.

just moi, I’m interested in knowing what exactly is written in the book (have you read it?) you would have trouble believing ?

JudgeMental said:

wouldn’t bother JJLM, TO is just trolling.

and you’re a left wing unionist tosser, probably pissed

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=203176

, probably pissed

lol, funny cos Fitzy is an ex alcoholic.

JudgeMental said:

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=203176

, probably pissed

lol, funny cos Fitzy is an ex alcoholic.

and Peter Stanley moved from Liverpool, England, the working man“s capital of Britain with his parents to Whyalla, south aust when he was a kid.

His dad was a working man, unionist. His views are bent

His views are bent

your “opinion”. whereas fitzy being an alcoholic is fact. mainly cos he wrote about himself. you need to learn to differenciate between “opinion” and fact.

differentiate

JudgeMental said:

His views are bent

your “opinion”. whereas fitzy being an alcoholic is fact. mainly cos he wrote about himself. you need to learn to differenciate between “opinion” and fact.

having to resort to his >> no longer existing condition<< ,,, hopeless

Peter Stanley must have been pissed he missed out on the history book prise.

His dad probably was the union steward at the steelmill

unfortunately being an alcoholic means you are probably always going to be an alcoholic. of course that doesn’t mean you drink.

JudgeMental said:

unfortunately being an alcoholic means you are probably always going to be an alcoholic. of course that doesn’t mean you drink.

quite true.. I think they never consider themselves cured.. just sober…

you really need to learn a bit more about a wider range of subjects.

The_observer said:

JudgeMental said:

His views are bent

your “opinion”. whereas fitzy being an alcoholic is fact. mainly cos he wrote about himself. you need to learn to differenciate between “opinion” and fact.

having to resort to his >> no longer existing condition<< ,,, hopeless

Peter Stanley must have been pissed he missed out on the history book prise.

His dad probably was the union steward at the steelmill

Stanley won it (shared) in 2011

How to grow pot plants by Professor J. Reefer

Woodworking for the Mentally Impaired – by Khudiz Arminaff.

The book describes subtle cultural misunderstandings. The British when trading often felt like they were being ripped off as the natives would take off with goods without payment. But the natives operated under the big man arrangement where a powerful chief, (Cook) would bestow gifts and not expect a payment or return favour for many months, and for very powerful gifts for years. It was a native way of demonstrating power, a bit like saying, meh, I give you this,I have lots to spare and when you get your shit together in the fullness of time you can pay me back.

Just browsed through some reviews for the book – Bad Characters: Sex, Crime, Mutiny and Murder in the Great War.
This is the book the federal Labor government awarded Peter Stanley his 2011 Prime Minister’s Prize for Australian History for.

Interesting reading.

Peter Stanley writes of the bad behaviour by Australia’s original Anzacs.

’‘Australians were 10 times more likely to go absent in the Great War than British soldiers, or the Canadians or New Zealanders,’‘

According to the publisher’s blurb: ’‘These were the men who went absent and deserted, caught or concealed VD, got drunk and fought their comrades, who stole, malingered, behaved insolently toward officers or committed more serious offences, including rape and murder.’‘

Part of the reason for the terrible discipline of the Australian troops, Stanley says, was that ’‘these men were volunteers who brought with them into uniform the same ideas, attitudes and beliefs they had had as civilians. Right to the end of the war, the Australians still responded to the army as if it was an annoying employer’‘.

The AIF was, of course, famously “ill disciplined” – they viewed the army as a job, which meant they expected to agitate for pay and conditions, be informed, and challenge the bosses.

Many of the stories relate to discipline, pranks, industrial action and the like that give a sense of what the culture of the AIF was like.

.

LOL

Obviously these looses & their sons were unionists working on the wharves & in the coal mines, the railways, steel mills during WW II.

Thanks for the link sibeen. I’ll have a read.

I’m reading an in-depth treatise on the hypothesis that if you’re actually willing to try consuming food that is visually unappealing, you may end up concluding that the said food is indeed more than just palatable, but that it is actually enjoyable. It lists various scenarios in which the protagonist is first manifestly unwilling, then finally glad to consume the said visually unappealing food.

Dropbear said:

I’m reading an in-depth treatise on the hypothesis that if you’re actually willing to try consuming food that is visually unappealing, you may end up concluding that the said food is indeed more than just palatable, but that it is actually enjoyable. It lists various scenarios in which the protagonist is first manifestly unwilling, then finally glad to consume the said visually unappealing food.

I have recently discovered a land-mark work on the varying characteristics of fish.

Witty Rejoinder said:

Dropbear said:

I’m reading an in-depth treatise on the hypothesis that if you’re actually willing to try consuming food that is visually unappealing, you may end up concluding that the said food is indeed more than just palatable, but that it is actually enjoyable. It lists various scenarios in which the protagonist is first manifestly unwilling, then finally glad to consume the said visually unappealing food.

I have recently discovered a land-mark work on the varying characteristics of fish.

There’s so much to learn, and so little time

The_observer said:

Just browsed through some reviews for the book – Bad Characters: Sex, Crime, Mutiny and Murder in the Great War.
This is the book the federal Labor government awarded Peter Stanley his 2011 Prime Minister’s Prize for Australian History for.

Interesting reading.

Peter Stanley writes of the bad behaviour by Australia’s original Anzacs.

’‘Australians were 10 times more likely to go absent in the Great War than British soldiers, or the Canadians or New Zealanders,’‘

According to the publisher’s blurb: ’‘These were the men who went absent and deserted, caught or concealed VD, got drunk and fought their comrades, who stole, malingered, behaved insolently toward officers or committed more serious offences, including rape and murder.’‘

Part of the reason for the terrible discipline of the Australian troops, Stanley says, was that ’‘these men were volunteers who brought with them into uniform the same ideas, attitudes and beliefs they had had as civilians. Right to the end of the war, the Australians still responded to the army as if it was an annoying employer’‘.

The AIF was, of course, famously “ill disciplined” – they viewed the army as a job, which meant they expected to agitate for pay and conditions, be informed, and challenge the bosses.

Many of the stories relate to discipline, pranks, industrial action and the like that give a sense of what the culture of the AIF was like.

.

LOL

Obviously these looses & their sons were unionists working on the wharves & in the coal mines, the railways, steel mills during WW II.

I take it just moi you aren’t familiar with the above mentioned book either.

The_observer said:

The_observer said:

Just browsed through some reviews for the book – Bad Characters: Sex, Crime, Mutiny and Murder in the Great War.
This is the book the federal Labor government awarded Peter Stanley his 2011 Prime Minister’s Prize for Australian History for.

Interesting reading.

Peter Stanley writes of the bad behaviour by Australia’s original Anzacs.

’‘Australians were 10 times more likely to go absent in the Great War than British soldiers, or the Canadians or New Zealanders,’‘

According to the publisher’s blurb: ’‘These were the men who went absent and deserted, caught or concealed VD, got drunk and fought their comrades, who stole, malingered, behaved insolently toward officers or committed more serious offences, including rape and murder.’‘

Part of the reason for the terrible discipline of the Australian troops, Stanley says, was that ’‘these men were volunteers who brought with them into uniform the same ideas, attitudes and beliefs they had had as civilians. Right to the end of the war, the Australians still responded to the army as if it was an annoying employer’‘.

The AIF was, of course, famously “ill disciplined” – they viewed the army as a job, which meant they expected to agitate for pay and conditions, be informed, and challenge the bosses.

Many of the stories relate to discipline, pranks, industrial action and the like that give a sense of what the culture of the AIF was like.

.

LOL

Obviously these looses & their sons were unionists working on the wharves & in the coal mines, the railways, steel mills during WW II.

I take it just moi you aren’t familiar with the above mentioned book either.
[/quote)
I really dgaf about either book.

I only tried to point out that there was considerable disagreement about the quality of the Greatbach choice, not only by Stanley.

jjjust moi said:

The_observer said:

The_observer said:

Just browsed through some reviews for the book – Bad Characters: Sex, Crime, Mutiny and Murder in the Great War.
This is the book the federal Labor government awarded Peter Stanley his 2011 Prime Minister’s Prize for Australian History for.

Interesting reading.

Peter Stanley writes of the bad behaviour by Australia’s original Anzacs.

’‘Australians were 10 times more likely to go absent in the Great War than British soldiers, or the Canadians or New Zealanders,’‘

According to the publisher’s blurb: ’‘These were the men who went absent and deserted, caught or concealed VD, got drunk and fought their comrades, who stole, malingered, behaved insolently toward officers or committed more serious offences, including rape and murder.’‘

Part of the reason for the terrible discipline of the Australian troops, Stanley says, was that ’‘these men were volunteers who brought with them into uniform the same ideas, attitudes and beliefs they had had as civilians. Right to the end of the war, the Australians still responded to the army as if it was an annoying employer’‘.

The AIF was, of course, famously “ill disciplined” – they viewed the army as a job, which meant they expected to agitate for pay and conditions, be informed, and challenge the bosses.

Many of the stories relate to discipline, pranks, industrial action and the like that give a sense of what the culture of the AIF was like.

.

LOL

Obviously these looses & their sons were unionists working on the wharves & in the coal mines, the railways, steel mills during WW II.

I take it just moi you aren’t familiar with the above mentioned book either.

dgf?

ok