I would entirely agree with accepted theory in the matter of micro BH’s created in a particle collider evaporating very quickly. Due to a collider’s method of isolation of centre of momentum I would question if it is even possible to develop a micro-BH in these conditions.

I don’t agree with the supposition that micro-BH’s can’t be produced in a more stable fashion. My investigation allows that detonation of a nuclear weapon in freefall produces a micro BH. Velocity at detonation determines the produced micro BH’s relative velocity/trajectory. This can be assessed as a degrading orbit that inevitably impacts with the earth’s centre of mass.

I’m not sure what my direct question would be in this regard but posting this is a cathartic process for me that may be associated to a fear of tidal waves that began with dreams when I was very young and didn’t know what a tidal wave was.

I’ve considered the consequences of fracking in regard to mitigating impact convulsion and would caution against this on the basis that equilibrating the internal friscosity/viscosity of the globe would only remove impact absorption to the atmosphere producing massive electromagnetic flaring.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Wave

this is what happened when Godzilla farted

wookiemeister said:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Wave

this is what happened when Godzilla farted

interesting. will have to watch that.

> I would question if it is even possible to develop a micro-BH in these conditions.

You’re right, it can’t. The production of a micro-black hole by either a particle collider or a nuclear explosion would only be possible under a very peculiar and highly unlikely theory of physics. Further, from a thermonuclear explosion the implosion generated in the core isn’t even powerful enough to generate more conventional subatomic particles such as hyperons.

The very peculiar and highly unlikely hypothesis that micro-blach holes is based on this. Space needs to be assumed to have 10 dimensions (string theory) or 11 dimensions (M theory). If space actually has fewer dimensions than that, for instance 3 dimensions in the standard model of quantum mechanics, then neither a particle collider or nuclear explosion could generate black holes.

But let’s suppose that space has 10 or 11 dimensions. Then all but 3 of these are rolled up in a Calabi-Yau manifold with a length scale similar to the Planck scale, right. Under those conditions it is STILL true that neither a particle collider or nuclear explosion could generate black holes.

In order for a black hole to be accessible to a powerful particle collider, the Calabi-Yau manifold has to be unravelled, and the sizes of the rolled-up dimensions would have to be anisotropic – different in different directions. Even if this unlikely happenstance was true, it is STILL true that neither a particle collider or nuclear explosion could generate black holes.

In order for a black hole to be accessible to a powerful particle collider, the largest of these unravelled rolled up dimensions would have to satisfy the extra condition of being be of a size of order 10^20 times the Planck length, fine tuned in size to a hundred billion billion times as big as physicists think it ought to be. The likelihood of that is so close to zero as not worth stating.

And even so, a black hole could still not be created by a nuclear explosion – even a thermonuclear explosion generates nowhere near enough energy per subatomic particle. The LHC generates 15,000,000 times as much energy per subatomic particle as an atomic fission bomb, and 3,600,000 times as much energy per subatomic particle as a hydrogen bomb.

mollwollfumble said:

And even so, a black hole could still not be created by a nuclear explosion – even a thermonuclear explosion generates nowhere near enough energy per subatomic particle. The LHC generates 15,000,000 times as much energy per subatomic particle as an atomic fission bomb, and 3,600,000 times as much energy per subatomic particle as a hydrogen bomb.

It is not the explosion that creates the micro-BH. The velocity the detonation is provided in freefall is the critical factor. ie an inertialess FoR has a lower vacuum state.

> a lower vacuum state

Sorry to correct you but “a lower vacuum state” means instant death for the entire universe as the inflationary era kick-starts again destroying everything with its power. Don’t even think of “a lower vacuum state” being created by nuclear explosions. Thankfully, they don’t have anywhere near enough power for that, nuclear explosions have even less power than an average star.

mollwollfumble said:

> a lower vacuum state

Sorry to correct you but “a lower vacuum state” means instant death for the entire universe as the inflationary era kick-starts again destroying everything with its power. Don’t even think of “a lower vacuum state” being created by nuclear explosions. Thankfully, they don’t have anywhere near enough power for that, nuclear explosions have even less power than an average star.

The lower vacuum state is not a product of the explosion but of freefall. Absolute zero doesn’t get a different value but the falling matter’s relative proximity to 0 is lower. The explosion simply provides further confinement to the devices radial velocity resolution.

I would have to develop the equation you demostrated to illustrate this supposition further. I may get to that but for now just removing the exercise permanently from my mind is the priority.

Woodie said:

Postpocelipse said:

A massive BH is one thing. I strongly advise against playing silly buggers with micro-BH’s.

Well, the thing about a black hole – it’s main distinguishing feature – is it’s black. And the thing about space, the colour of space, your basic space colour – is it’s black. So how are you supposed to see them?

Gee. Being able to see them would make it easy. Only answer I have is to either avoiding creating them or contain them if you do. Probably only a little harder than containing a nuclear detonation.

This little scenario put a spin on my act I didn’t expect and niggled at me till I figured out the contributing factors.. I may as well provide the assumptions I had made for taking apart.

The length contraction equation moll provided is what I assumed would measure the velocity required to turn an accelerating mass into a micro BH. When his initial estimate provided 98.99987 % of the speed of light before length contraction would destabilise I thought for a moment that it was nearly impossible. Then he came back with,

“ With constant force and an initial acceleration of 9.8 m/s^2, and ignoring mass loss due to fuel usage, the crossover point is 16.9. It takes the spacecraft 16.9 years to travel 16.9 light years.”

From the approach that I had taken 16.9 had to be measured against the 27000 light years to provide a measurement of the vacuum confinement of the earth relative to the radial velocity of the MW galaxy. The second equation suggested that the threshold could be crossed at .0.06259259259259259% of the speed of light in critical conditions.

That got me a little alarmed and I went and read up on the tests since 45 on wiki and tried to assume that Molls advice that micro-bh’s required enormous amounts of energy meant that could rule out anything simply in the kiloton range as not approaching that threshold. The 57 megatons russia popped might be closer.

The issue with that AFAIUI, it is not the tonnage that violates the threshold when a detonation is dropping toward the earth. Fission demands that nuclei are violating the boundaries set by the four forces. The only other factor is vacuum, which in this FoR is already being compressed. By the time the weapon has reached it’s detonation zone what force is it’s velocity exerting on the boundaries that are already being violated by the fission reaction?

I’ll assume it’s negligible. I don’t think that will eliminate my distaste for 9 quakes and the accompanying walls of water. AFAICFO there were not tests dropped from planes bar Tsar Bomba. Not that I looked past what wiki had links to. If megatons made a difference against kilotons then that might mean I wouldn’t be alive to observe any 9+ to link to that detonation. I’m not sitting around waiting for another quake. I’m still not clear on what effect the vacuum compression of gravitational acceleration has on fission or fusion.

word salad.

ChrispenEvan said:

word salad.

how so?

I’m asking for specific criticism so that I can understand where I am assuming something. Word salad means about as much as, “here I’m Chrispen Evan and you have to smell my baaaaallls!” to my comprehension fuckwit.

Postpocelipse said:

I’m asking for specific criticism so that I can understand where I am assuming something. Word salad means about as much as, “here I’m Chrispen Evan and you have to smell my baaaaallls!” to my comprehension fuckwit.

Wait, is this for real again? Or are we back to you making up stuff for fiction again?

it’s all wrong. how’s that?

AwesomeO said:

Postpocelipse said:

I’m asking for specific criticism so that I can understand where I am assuming something. Word salad means about as much as, “here I’m Chrispen Evan and you have to smell my baaaaallls!” to my comprehension fuckwit.

Wait, is this for real again? Or are we back to you making up stuff for fiction again?

None of us actually do this other than be off track by miles. Which is applicable to anyone.

ChrispenEvan said:

it’s all wrong. how’s that?

Your balls can pop your eyeballs out by travelling through your body. Did you know that morsel?

Postpocelipse said:

ChrispenEvan said:

it’s all wrong. how’s that?

Your balls can pop your eyeballs out by travelling through your body. Did you know that morsel?

That they don’t need to travel far, is better known.

AwesomeO said:

Postpocelipse said:

I’m asking for specific criticism so that I can understand where I am assuming something. Word salad means about as much as, “here I’m Chrispen Evan and you have to smell my baaaaallls!” to my comprehension fuckwit.

Wait, is this for real again? Or are we back to you making up stuff for fiction again?

leave it to the professionals postie

roughbarked said:

AwesomeO said:

Postpocelipse said:

I’m asking for specific criticism so that I can understand where I am assuming something. Word salad means about as much as, “here I’m Chrispen Evan and you have to smell my baaaaallls!” to my comprehension fuckwit.

Wait, is this for real again? Or are we back to you making up stuff for fiction again?

None of us actually do this other than be off track by miles. Which is applicable to anyone.

I’m simply satisfying my curiosity on what effect the accumulation of kinetic energy has on fission and fusion. AFAICT kinetic energy is connected to the compression of vacuum. I’m assuming it must contribute some factor in the critical moments of fission or fusion, whether that be large or small. What would any characters I imagined have to argue about if I didn’t have accurate data for them to conflagellate around?

wookiemeister said:

AwesomeO said:

Postpocelipse said:

I’m asking for specific criticism so that I can understand where I am assuming something. Word salad means about as much as, “here I’m Chrispen Evan and you have to smell my baaaaallls!” to my comprehension fuckwit.

Wait, is this for real again? Or are we back to you making up stuff for fiction again?

leave it to the professionals postie

What? I don’t have the right to spend my spare time writing science-fiction? Not sending my kid to your school of confidence building.

Postpocelipse said:

roughbarked said:

AwesomeO said:

Wait, is this for real again? Or are we back to you making up stuff for fiction again?

None of us actually do this other than be off track by miles. Which is applicable to anyone.

I’m simply satisfying my curiosity on what effect the accumulation of kinetic energy has on fission and fusion. AFAICT kinetic energy is connected to the compression of vacuum. I’m assuming it must contribute some factor in the critical moments of fission or fusion, whether that be large or small. What would any characters I imagined have to argue about if I didn’t have accurate data for them to conflagellate around?

It comes down to;
Do you fully underconstumble all ?

roughbarked said:

It comes down to;
Do you fully underconstumble all ?

we’ll see by the final chapters I guess. Constumbulation is prone to long periods of profundlecontrariness whilst it progresses to the ever inevitable cavulcascadoclimax.

Postpocelipse said:

roughbarked said:

It comes down to;
Do you fully underconstumble all ?

we’ll see by the final chapters I guess. Constumbulation is prone to long periods of profundlecontrariness whilst it progresses to the ever inevitable cavulcascadoclimax.

mmm. Next?

Postpocelipse said:

wookiemeister said:

AwesomeO said:

Wait, is this for real again? Or are we back to you making up stuff for fiction again?

leave it to the professionals postie

What? I don’t have the right to spend my spare time writing science-fiction? Not sending my kid to your school of confidence building.

If it’s sci-fi then you aren’t actually required to follow the laws of physics.
You ar right on track for that.

roughbarked said:

Postpocelipse said:

roughbarked said:

It comes down to;
Do you fully underconstumble all ?

we’ll see by the final chapters I guess. Constumbulation is prone to long periods of profundlecontrariness whilst it progresses to the ever inevitable cavulcascadoclimax.

mmm. Next?

in the ’60’s and ’70s you’d spark up and chat about grooviness and far-out stuff. Not sure how things go these days with ciggies being so unpopular.

Postpocelipse said:

roughbarked said:

Postpocelipse said:

we’ll see by the final chapters I guess. Constumbulation is prone to long periods of profundlecontrariness whilst it progresses to the ever inevitable cavulcascadoclimax.

mmm. Next?

in the ’60’s and ’70s you’d spark up and chat about grooviness and far-out stuff. Not sure how things go these days with ciggies being so unpopular.

Go with it. I’ll see if I can keep up with you.

Spiny Norman said:

Postpocelipse said:

wookiemeister said:

leave it to the professionals postie

What? I don’t have the right to spend my spare time writing science-fiction? Not sending my kid to your school of confidence building.

If it’s sci-fi then you aren’t actually required to follow the laws of physics.
You ar right on track for that.

once again. criticism works when it is specific. I have to assume you have your hand on it and are assuming I’m getting all excited and frustated. Charming…….

roughbarked said:

Postpocelipse said:

roughbarked said:

mmm. Next?

in the ’60’s and ’70s you’d spark up and chat about grooviness and far-out stuff. Not sure how things go these days with ciggies being so unpopular.

Go with it. I’ll see if I can keep up with you.

ok you want a tidbit. I’m picturing two scientists romantically involved. One has the idea I’ve had in my head and has figured out a way to test it. The other has access to one or another of the bigger colliders required to test it. The one has to convince the other to let him have access without authority and without letting on that he/she thinks it might destroy the collider. blah blah. various arguments and significant drama blah blah. One blown up reactor occurs. At this point crazy theory character has to explain to the academic authorities what he did and why. Long segway of dramas blah blah. Character who let crazy theory character blow up collider saves the day and figures out how to prevent the micro-bh recoil of Tsar-Bomba.

Postpocelipse said:

roughbarked said:

Postpocelipse said:

in the ’60’s and ’70s you’d spark up and chat about grooviness and far-out stuff. Not sure how things go these days with ciggies being so unpopular.

Go with it. I’ll see if I can keep up with you.

ok you want a tidbit. I’m picturing two scientists romantically involved. One has the idea I’ve had in my head and has figured out a way to test it. The other has access to one or another of the bigger colliders required to test it. The one has to convince the other to let him have access without authority and without letting on that he/she thinks it might destroy the collider. blah blah. various arguments and significant drama blah blah. One blown up reactor occurs. At this point crazy theory character has to explain to the academic authorities what he did and why. Long segway of dramas blah blah. Character who let crazy theory character blow up collider saves the day and figures out how to prevent the micro-bh recoil of Tsar-Bomba.

So, is this latter character one of the early two?

roughbarked said:

Postpocelipse said:

roughbarked said:

Go with it. I’ll see if I can keep up with you.

ok you want a tidbit. I’m picturing two scientists romantically involved. One has the idea I’ve had in my head and has figured out a way to test it. The other has access to one or another of the bigger colliders required to test it. The one has to convince the other to let him have access without authority and without letting on that he/she thinks it might destroy the collider. blah blah. various arguments and significant drama blah blah. One blown up reactor occurs. At this point crazy theory character has to explain to the academic authorities what he did and why. Long segway of dramas blah blah. Character who let crazy theory character blow up collider saves the day and figures out how to prevent the micro-bh recoil of Tsar-Bomba.

So, is this latter character one of the early two?

there are so far two central characters and interfering detail…….

Postpocelipse said:

there are so far two central characters and interfering detail…….

typical.

Have you no imagination?

roughbarked said:

Postpocelipse said:

there are so far two central characters and interfering detail…….

typical.

Have you no imagination?

No. Target audience has yet to develop an imagination. Limits your options. You have to involve personal drama and schmuckish social contortions of frivolous and confabulated proportions.

ok what about this, two scientists go mad and decide to destroy the world by the BH recoil of a nuclear bomb

a handsome and dashing service tech come electrician realises the danger posed by the experiment and sabotages the entire project by monkey wrenching the bomb and the experiment by introducing cheap Chinese electronics and dry joints that bedevil the project at every turn until the bean counters furious at the mounting costs scrap the entire project.

Postpocelipse said:

roughbarked said:

Postpocelipse said:

there are so far two central characters and interfering detail…….

typical.

Have you no imagination?

No. Target audience has yet to develop an imagination. Limits your options. You have to involve personal drama and schmuckish social contortions of frivolous and confabulated proportions.

Why do you want to write to a taget audience for? The way to fame is to draw them to you.

wookiemeister said:

ok what about this, two scientists go mad and decide to destroy the world by the BH recoil of a nuclear bomb

a handsome and dashing service tech come electrician realises the danger posed by the experiment and sabotages the entire project by monkey wrenching the bomb and the experiment by introducing cheap Chinese electronics and dry joints that bedevil the project at every turn until the bean counters furious at the mounting costs scrap the entire project.

If he didn’t die for the cause.

a subplot could be this fellow having various relationships with various supermodels that he has his way with them , then discards them for the next one

wookiemeister said:

ok what about this, two scientists go mad and decide to destroy the world by the BH recoil of a nuclear bomb

a handsome and dashing service tech come electrician realises the danger posed by the experiment and sabotages the entire project by monkey wrenching the bomb and the experiment by introducing cheap Chinese electronics and dry joints that bedevil the project at every turn until the bean counters furious at the mounting costs scrap the entire project.

so you suggest a comedy/political satire contribution? hhmmmm. little is set in stone. Could be filled out further but the possibilities are notable.

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

ok what about this, two scientists go mad and decide to destroy the world by the BH recoil of a nuclear bomb

a handsome and dashing service tech come electrician realises the danger posed by the experiment and sabotages the entire project by monkey wrenching the bomb and the experiment by introducing cheap Chinese electronics and dry joints that bedevil the project at every turn until the bean counters furious at the mounting costs scrap the entire project.

If he didn’t die for the cause.

nah this bloke had more brains than to die for the cause

wookiemeister said:

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

ok what about this, two scientists go mad and decide to destroy the world by the BH recoil of a nuclear bomb

a handsome and dashing service tech come electrician realises the danger posed by the experiment and sabotages the entire project by monkey wrenching the bomb and the experiment by introducing cheap Chinese electronics and dry joints that bedevil the project at every turn until the bean counters furious at the mounting costs scrap the entire project.

If he didn’t die for the cause.

nah this bloke had more brains than to die for the cause

that’s what dashing means doesn’t it?

Postpocelipse said:

wookiemeister said:

roughbarked said:

If he didn’t die for the cause.

nah this bloke had more brains than to die for the cause

that’s what dashing means doesn’t it?

it is a bit of a gay frolic if you want to go there ever so briefly.

Postpocelipse said:

wookiemeister said:

ok what about this, two scientists go mad and decide to destroy the world by the BH recoil of a nuclear bomb

a handsome and dashing service tech come electrician realises the danger posed by the experiment and sabotages the entire project by monkey wrenching the bomb and the experiment by introducing cheap Chinese electronics and dry joints that bedevil the project at every turn until the bean counters furious at the mounting costs scrap the entire project.

so you suggest a comedy/political satire contribution? hhmmmm. little is set in stone. Could be filled out further but the possibilities are notable.

but he has a dark side to him, in his spare time he prowls the dark mean streets saving people from muggers, robbers and various people continually let out by the legal system

he has built his own gaol in an abandoned nuclear shelter

he funds the gaol by selling the prisoners blood by some dodgy deal he has with a local blood bank

roughbarked said:

Postpocelipse said:

wookiemeister said:

nah this bloke had more brains than to die for the cause

that’s what dashing means doesn’t it?

it is a bit of a gay frolic if you want to go there ever so briefly.

yup. you broke my stride and choked me on a chuckle.

lol

Are you Matthew Reilly?

Spiny Norman said:

Are you Matthew Reilly?

whu?

but it’s like the A team – no one dies regardless of what happens

in one programme he steals the nuclear bomb of the mad scientists and leaves a dummy riddled with problems and sets one off in some location underground in the desert for a laugh

Spiny Norman said:

Are you Matthew Reilly?

Matthew Riley. He’s polite looking. Don’t know if that fits my description.

I have many ideas for a series of programmes that would amuse but I’d be flagged

wookiemeister said:

I have many ideas for a series of programmes that would amuse but I’d be flagged

It is OK. I’m with you. The others be damned. ;)

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

I have many ideas for a series of programmes that would amuse but I’d be flagged

It is OK. I’m with you. The others be damned. ;)

Fancy is fleet before the scorn of the condemner.

Postpocelipse said:

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

I have many ideas for a series of programmes that would amuse but I’d be flagged

It is OK. I’m with you. The others be damned. ;)

Fancy is fleet before the scorn of the condemner.

Since when did you give a shit?

The central technical question is how kinetic energy is not distributed to mass by the tension of the vacuum? Doesn’t seem particularly hard to answer directly.

roughbarked said:

Postpocelipse said:

roughbarked said:

It is OK. I’m with you. The others be damned. ;)

Fancy is fleet before the scorn of the condemner.

Since when did you give a shit?

Since ““FOREVER”“ so nyeh nyeh nyene nyeh!!!!

Postpocelipse said:

The central technical question is how kinetic energy is not distributed to mass by the tension of the vacuum? Doesn’t seem particularly hard to answer directly.

but why would I?

Postpocelipse said:

roughbarked said:

Postpocelipse said:

Fancy is fleet before the scorn of the condemner.

Since when did you give a shit?

Since ““FOREVER”“ so nyeh nyeh nyene nyeh!!!!

Spirit. :)

roughbarked said:

Postpocelipse said:

The central technical question is how kinetic energy is not distributed to mass by the tension of the vacuum? Doesn’t seem particularly hard to answer directly.

but why would I?

hhhmmmmmmm…………..

don’t know…… your mum made ya?

roughbarked said:

Postpocelipse said:

roughbarked said:

Since when did you give a shit?

Since ““FOREVER”“ so nyeh nyeh nyene nyeh!!!!

Spirit. :)

:D worth it. ;)

Postpocelipse said:

roughbarked said:

Postpocelipse said:

The central technical question is how kinetic energy is not distributed to mass by the tension of the vacuum? Doesn’t seem particularly hard to answer directly.

but why would I?

hhhmmmmmmm…………..

don’t know…… your mum made ya?

but my dad taught me about vacuum.

roughbarked said:

Postpocelipse said:

roughbarked said:

but why would I?

hhhmmmmmmm…………..

don’t know…… your mum made ya?

but my dad taught me about vacuum.

vacuum advance? Fair-e-muff. There is a lot to learn about vacuum so somebodies mum might have taught you something.