Hi.

Cleaner energy is an area of interest to the world.
I was just viewing a discovery of a bacteria that can modify water to become hydrogen fuel (supposedly).
I then thought hmm… Even if this bacteria discovery were to spearhead the cost viability of producing hydrogen fuel. How could the world remain viable using only hydrogen fuel sourced from water? Would the potential of water resources’ exceed potentially those of oil in our future? one resource is finite (oil) but water may not be in a viable liquid state and at the quantities required to become a sole source of clean energy.

What do you lot think on this subject?

> What do you think on the subject?

http://xkcd.com/1007/

The Sun is also a finite emitter of photons … Ultimately!!

The latest fuel bacteria produces isopropyl.

Highly productive isopropyl alcohol-producing bacterium

All living things are powered by a similar (but more complex) process.

The hydrogen, when it is used for the generation of energy, becomes water again, so I’m not sure what is unsustainable.

As to whether this particular process is more economic than other sustainable energy conversion and storage methods, that depends on the efficiency of the process. If it is significantly more efficient than the best that plants can do, then it might be an important development.

Wouldn’t it be safer to use helium fuel?
It’s less flammable than hydrogen.

Aquila said:

Wouldn’t it be safer to use helium fuel?
It’s less flammable than hydrogen.

ROFL

Aquila said:

Wouldn’t it be safer to use helium fuel?
It’s less flammable than hydrogen.

Curiously enough, one of the heavier noble gases, xenon, is used as a rocket fuel.

The Rev Dodgson said:

All living things are powered by a similar (but more complex) process.

The hydrogen, when it is used for the generation of energy, becomes water again, so I’m not sure what is unsustainable.

As to whether this particular process is more economic than other sustainable energy conversion and storage methods, that depends on the efficiency of the process. If it is significantly more efficient than the best that plants can do, then it might be an important development.

Water vapour or liquid?

i would imagine vapour, depending on pressure and temp, then as these fell condensed out into liquid. but that is just a guess.

JudgeMental said:

i would imagine vapour, depending on pressure and temp, then as these fell condensed out into liquid. but that is just a guess.

Well at least you know it is a guess. That puts us both on par for once. ;)

only because i have watched kettles boil.

JudgeMental said:

only because i have watched kettles boil.

:) been there done that too.

I am aware a condenser easily will return the vapour to a liquid state…but that would need to be additional to the hydrogen engine

I should look at the motor set up.

monkey skipper said:

I am aware a condenser easily will return the vapour to a liquid state…but that would need to be additional to the hydrogen engine

Yes the system needs to return the water. It isn’t a lot more complicated than a carburettor really.

monkey skipper said:

I should look at the motor set up.

good idea.

the rev was referring to current hydrogen engines. they would have a condenser to return the vapour to liquid. i would imagine.

though most would just let the water go to waste.

JudgeMental said:

the rev was referring to current hydrogen engines. they would have a condenser to return the vapour to liquid. i would imagine.

And then….??

JudgeMental said:

though most would just let the water go to waste.

It is hardly a pollutant.

roughbarked said:

JudgeMental said:

though most would just let the water go to waste.

It is hardly a pollutant.

Water—->hydrogen———>dumped water?b

the reason being is that they burn hydrogen and not split water into hydrogen and oxygen to be burnt again. that is an energy negative reaction. so hydrogen engines get compressed hydrogen which use some other energy source to produce.

it isn’t a matter of being a pollutant but a product that is not needed.

Iceland is most in favour of hydrogen fuel as I recall due to the abundance of water resources I thought, which suggests they are using water to source hydrogen. Is that correct?

i dunno about iceland but if they used hydrothermal for their power then that would be a relatively green method to split water. same as solar. it is when you use fossil fuels that it defeats the purpose.

monkey skipper said:

Iceland is most in favour of hydrogen fuel as I recall due to the abundance of water resources I thought, which suggests they are using water to source hydrogen. Is that correct?

It is the source most freely available.

JudgeMental said:

it isn’t a matter of being a pollutant but a product that is not needed.

thanks.

just looked up power in iceland. renewable geothermal.

JudgeMental said:

it is when you use fossil fuels that it defeats the purpose.

Yeah well.

JudgeMental said:

i dunno about iceland but if they used hydrothermal for their power then that would be a relatively green method to split water. same as solar. it is when you use fossil fuels that it defeats the purpose.

Iceland from what I remember wants the world to embrace their hydrogen based fuel globally therefore they must have viable means to produce the fuel. Should research their current stance though.

monkey skipper said:

JudgeMental said:

i dunno about iceland but if they used hydrothermal for their power then that would be a relatively green method to split water. same as solar. it is when you use fossil fuels that it defeats the purpose.

Iceland from what I remember wants the world to embrace their hydrogen based fuel globally therefore they must have viable means to produce the fuel. Should research their current stance though.

Think the problems are more about the engines than making the fuel.

the thing is about hydrogen engines it that you will need a new distribution network. using hydrogen in fuel cells is a better option rather than burning it.

I noted a uni team in Australia have improved solar cell energy conversion efficiencies again….which is good thing

JudgeMental said:

the thing is about hydrogen engines it that you will need a new distribution network. using hydrogen in fuel cells is a better option rather than burning it.

You mean like a battery?

monkey skipper said:

I noted a uni team in Australia have improved solar cell energy conversion efficiencies again….which is good thing

Oi Oi Oi.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_cell

A fuel cell is a device that converts the chemical energy from a fuel into electricity through a chemical reaction with oxygen or another oxidizing agent.

Hydrogen produced from the steam methane reforming of natural gas is the most common fuel, but for greater efficiency hydrocarbons can be used directly such as natural gas and alcohols like methanol. Fuel cells are different from batteries in that they require a continuous source of fuel and oxygen/air to sustain the chemical reaction whereas in a battery the chemicals present in the battery react with each other to generate an electromotive force (emf). Fuel cells can produce electricity continuously for as long as these inputs are supplied.