Anyone used one of the Cronin’s Key Guides?

There are guides to Australian Trees, Australian Wildflowers, Australian Rainforest Plants, Australian Wildlife, Australian Mammals, Australian Reptiles & Frogs and perhaps others.

Are any of them worth buying?

mollwollfumble said:

Anyone used one of the Cronin’s Key Guides?

There are guides to Australian Trees, Australian Wildflowers, Australian Rainforest Plants, Australian Wildlife, Australian Mammals, Australian Reptiles & Frogs and perhaps others.

Are any of them worth buying?

it was one of our reference books at uni.
browser through a couple, good detail, handy for the work I was doing

Cronin’s Key Guides are very basic and aimed at people with little or no knowledge of the subject matter, but who wish to get some appreciation of it. They generally cover only the most common species and are not suitable for conducting any serious identification. If you want to get to that level there are numerous specialised publications, some dealing Australia wide when there are a smaller number of species like frogs and reptiles, but with botany, there will only be State coverage, or only part State coverage. Australia wide in botany might be applicable in certain groups of plants where species numbers are not excessive like Carnivorous Plants, etc. However in most instances the cost of the publications are considerably higher than the Cronin’s.

PermeateFree said:

Cronin’s Key Guides are very basic and aimed at people with little or no knowledge of the subject matter, but who wish to get some appreciation of it. They generally cover only the most common species….

Yes, that’s what I’m thinking of. My knowledge of wildlife in general and plants in particular is negligible. I have a fair knowledge of Australian birds, but that’s about it. I could recognise no more than about twelve species of Australian mammals and fewer than that of Australian trees and lizards, even less for Australian shrubs, snakes, amphibians, rodents and fungi.

I’m looking for a guide to species that I might see every day, such as spiders, insects and weeds, rather than those that I’m unlikely to see in a lifetime.

mollwollfumble said:

PermeateFree said:

Cronin’s Key Guides are very basic and aimed at people with little or no knowledge of the subject matter, but who wish to get some appreciation of it. They generally cover only the most common species….

Yes, that’s what I’m thinking of. My knowledge of wildlife in general and plants in particular is negligible. I have a fair knowledge of Australian birds, but that’s about it. I could recognise no more than about twelve species of Australian mammals and fewer than that of Australian trees and lizards, even less for Australian shrubs, snakes, amphibians, rodents and fungi.

I’m looking for a guide to species that I might see every day, such as spiders, insects and weeds, rather than those that I’m unlikely to see in a lifetime.

There are many small cheap paperbacks that cover those, but as invertebrates are such a large undocumented area, you are not going to get anything that will give a reasonable coverage to species or even genera, families might be the best you will get. Visit a local (large) bookshop and see what they have and if they deal with species in your area.

There are some good Field Guides, but you will need quite a few dollars in your pocket, which might only then cover a few species in your area. Make sure they have distribution maps, as they will make id much easier.

Frogs
Reptiles
Birds
Cockroaches
Beetles
Moths
Butterflies
Katydids
Dragonflies
Stick Insects
Flies
Wasps
Ants
Spiders
Etc

Whilst some of the above are quite comprehensive, others are more basic and only cover some common species. There are more detailed books, but you are talking hundreds of dollars for them.

There are several good books on weeds and a number on native vegetation, but with the latter many species will not be adequately covered.

I quite like my Weed Bible:

“Weeds. An illustrated guide to the weeds of Australia” byt B.A. Auld and R.W. Medd

It doesn’t just do introduced species. Often you can ID an Australian plant from it because it is considered a weed of pasture or a weed in the ‘wrong’ part of the country.

And I like The Graham Pizzey and Frank Knight Field Guide to the Birds of Australia. Partly because it is a good book and pretty easy to use, and partly because I knew Graham and liked him.

PermeateFree said:

There are some good Field Guides, but you will need quite a few dollars in your pocket, which might only then cover a few species in your area. Make sure they have distribution maps, as they will make id much easier.

Frogs
Reptiles
Birds
Cockroaches
Beetles
Moths
Butterflies
Katydids
Dragonflies
Stick Insects
Flies
Wasps
Ants
Spiders
Etc

Whilst some of the above are quite comprehensive, others are more basic and only cover some common species. There are more detailed books, but you are talking hundreds of dollars for them.

There are several good books on weeds and a number on native vegetation, but with the latter many species will not be adequately covered.

If you’re looking for a guide for your area only, perhaps your local council has a publication. Ours does, for a few of the well-known reserves. They list many of the flora and fauna with photos.

Try finding your local group of this mob (for plants)

http://anpsa.org.au/

And your local bird watchers group (for birds, obviously)

And Fungimap (for fungi)

Mine the information. Those groups should have a good idea about what is good, local and easy for the beginner.

PermeateFree said:

mollwollfumble said:

PermeateFree said:

Cronin’s Key Guides are very basic and aimed at people with little or no knowledge of the subject matter, but who wish to get some appreciation of it. They generally cover only the most common species….

Yes, that’s what I’m thinking of. My knowledge of wildlife in general and plants in particular is negligible. I have a fair knowledge of Australian birds, but that’s about it. I could recognise no more than about twelve species of Australian mammals and fewer than that of Australian trees and lizards, even less for Australian shrubs, snakes, amphibians, rodents and fungi.

I’m looking for a guide to species that I might see every day, such as spiders, insects and weeds, rather than those that I’m unlikely to see in a lifetime.

There are many small cheap paperbacks that cover those, but as invertebrates are such a large undocumented area, you are not going to get anything that will give a reasonable coverage to species or even genera, families might be the best you will get. Visit a local (large) bookshop and see what they have and if they deal with species in your area.

I like the books that show the range of each species on a map.

What made me wonder about Cronin’s is that his tree guide found me four trees that I’ve seen recently but had forgotten the names of – willow myrtle, brush box, long-leafed corkwood and coastal tea tree. The first two of those are in my yard.

> species in your area

I have the “wildlife of Melbourne” and “wildlife of Brisbane” books, but they only cover animals, the Melbourne one is better.

> “Weeds. An illustrated guide to the weeds of Australia” by B.A. Auld and R.W. Medd. It doesn’t just do introduced species. Often you can ID an Australian plant from it because it is considered a weed of pasture or a weed in the ‘wrong’ part of the country.

Oh wonderful, I must look it up. The “weeds of national significance” lists are useless.

> There are more detailed books, but you are talking hundreds of dollars for them.

That’s what libraries are for. I’ve noticed an inverse correlation between detail of book and number of photographs.

> If you’re looking for a guide for your area only, perhaps your local council has a publication. Ours does, for a few of the well-known reserves. They list many of the flora and fauna with photos.

There’s one for Sandringham flora, which is nearby, but it only includes rarer endemics, making it practically useless.

> Try finding your local group of this mob (for plants). http://anpsa.org.au/

None within an hours drive of here. I might have more luck at one of the local garden centres.

PermeateFree said:

There are some good Field Guides, but you will need quite a few dollars in your pocket, which might only then cover a few species in your area. Make sure they have distribution maps, as they will make id much easier.

Frogs
Reptiles
Birds
Cockroaches
Beetles
Moths
Butterflies
Katydids
Dragonflies
Stick Insects
Flies
Wasps
Ants
Spiders
Etc

Any favourites?

> “Weeds. An illustrated guide to the weeds of Australia” by B.A. Auld and R.W. Medd. It doesn’t just do introduced species. Often you can ID an Australian plant from it because it is considered a weed of pasture or a weed in the ‘wrong’ part of the country.

1) I don’t see it for sale anywhere.
2) It’s 600 pages and the chapter list starts with:

A Milestone in the Development of Weed Control Technology
History of the Discovery and Development of Triazine Herbicides
Production Development and Registration of Triazine Herbicides
Weed Control Trends and Practices in North America
Farming Trends and Practices in Northern Europe

This isn’t a book about plants at all, it’s a book about the chemistry of herbicides.

No, it’s a weed field guide, and some years ago was considered The book for that. Might be out of print.

I can see where your problem is……the list at the bottom here is definitely NOT the chapters in Auld and Medd.

http://books.google.com.au/books/about/Weeds.html?id=dKCV3RzS6LwC

From the contents page of the book in front of me:

Forward
Acknowledgements
Preface
Abbreviations
Introduction
Guide to plant groups

PTERIDOPHYTES (ferns)

various types, various pages, Adiantaceae to Salviniaceae

MONOCOTYLEDONS

various types, various pages, Agavaceae to Lomandraceae(Xanthorrrhoeaceae)

DICOTYLEDONS

various types, various pages, Aizoaceae to Zygophyllaceae

Bibilography
Glossary
Index of plant names

I have no idea what the listing on the Google books page relates to but it definitely is not Auld and Medd.

> There are more detailed books, but you are talking hundreds of dollars for them.

>>That’s what libraries are for. I’ve noticed an inverse correlation between detail of book and number of photographs.<<

Let me know how you get on :)

PermeateFree said:

> There are more detailed books, but you are talking hundreds of dollars for them.

>>That’s what libraries are for. I’ve noticed an inverse correlation between detail of book and number of photographs.<<

Let me know how you get on :)

Have just bought two field guides, neither a Cronin’s. The Cronin’s for Australian mammals, Australian wildlife and Australian reptiles & snakes didn’t contain enough material useful to me for me to justify the cost. The shop didn’t have Cronin’s trees or wildflowers.

Bought
“A field guide to insects in Australia” by Zborowski & Storey.
and
“Gardener’s companion to weeds: How to identify and control more than 150 common weeds and invasive plants in Australia” by Ermert.

Quick reviews.

With only 150 weeds and poor quality photos the weed book isn’t great. Normal advice “use glyphosate” hardly needs stating. But the choice of what counts as a “weed” is superb, there are more than a few weeds here that I was unable to find on the web.

Much of the insect book isn’t new to me, but I like the layouts and photos. There’s a photo for most insect families. In one instance it has a photo of two ladybird species that I posted on the forum recently, together with a pupa. More than 1000 insect species get mentioned.

Please excuse flame here.

Who was the idiot who first decreed that plant field guides ought to be ordered alphabetically by GENUS? It’s a %$#@ stupid idea that sees related plants placed hundreds of pages away from each other.

Linneaus didn’t. In his book about flowering plants “Species Plantarium”, 1753, the flowers are ordered by number of stamens.

Stirling Macoboy did. Flowers are ordered alphabetically by genus in “What flower is that?”, 1988, which makes it a bastard of a thing to use for identification.

Damnit, there ought to be a standard ordering for plants like there is for birds and for insects. Bird guides follow a fairly standard taxonomic system, all the non-passerines before the passerines. Insect guides start with the wingless insects, springtails.

A standard ordering for plant ID must be something like:
single-celled green alga
multicellular green alga
moss & liverwort
club moss
fern & horsetail
gymnosperm
monocot
dicot starting with water lilies and moving through cacti and sunflowers to roses

Not b___ alphabetically ordered by genus.

Cronon’s Australian Trees orders by alphabetically by family and then alphabetically by genus. Much better but far from ideal.
The Weed guide orders plants by environment (aquatic, lawn, garden, pasture) then alphabetically by genus.

Cronin’s “Key Guide to Australian Wildflowers” starts with a key to petal numbers and/or flower type, and colour and then sends you to the relevent 2 to 20 pages of the book. You then look at the pictures.

I don’t have any problem with the plants being grouped according to similar characteristics – family. And the most logical thing after that is alphabetical by genus. Anyway, if you are IDing a plant the fastest way is to simply flip through the pictures in a good book. If you know, for instance, that the square stemmed plants will be Lamiaceae, you just go to that section and flip. Or you go to Fabiaceae for the pea flowers. My books seem to be grouped by family.

Internet is not a lot of use until you have narrowed things down a bit, although sometimes a search on “5 petals, yellow, Australia” might put you in the ballpark. But it’s far quicker to skim pictures in a book.

Botany is a science and as such is arranged methodically. Your problem is you are looking at popular identification aids, some good, some not so good. Serious reference books have keys to families, then to genera and finally to species, so if you want to reach that standard, you must fork out some serious money to compensate the years of study required to produce such publications.

Few libraries stock these botanical publications as they are of limited public interest and often require some expertise in botanical terms to use them. They are usually owned by the individual for ongoing investigation and/or available from the libraries of scientific institutions. They are generally not suitable for people wishing to id an odd plant they have discovered.

Below are the basic botanical divisions, which are usually dealt with separately due to the numbers involved.

The Bryophytes (Mosses and liverworts)
http://www.theplantlist.org/browse/B/

Monocotyledon Plants
http://education-portal.com/academy/lesson/monocotyledon-plants-examples-definition-pictures.html

Dicotyledon definition biology
http://www.biology-online.org/dictionary/Dicot

> Internet is not a lot of use until you have narrowed things down a bit, although sometimes a search on “5 petals, yellow, Australia” might put you in the ballpark. But it’s far quicker to skim pictures in a book.

Yes. I’ve noticed that. For instance, in my own front yard there is an invasive plant that I couldn’t find on the internet. Had to look through to the end of the weeds book to find it was Chlorophytum comosum. Good as a pot plant but don’t let it loose in the garden.