An interesting article on the ABC.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-27/macho-culture-to-blame-for-alcohol-fuelled-violence-dr-anne-fox/6270072
I sorta agree with this. I’ve drunk in bars all over the world and it does appear to be the anglo-celt cultures where fists get raised very readily.
OTOH, there are quite a few cultures that are arguably more “macho” than Australia. Eastern European, Latino, Arab, African, African American, Indian etc.
sibeen said:
An interesting article on the ABC.http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-27/macho-culture-to-blame-for-alcohol-fuelled-violence-dr-anne-fox/6270072
I sorta agree with this. I’ve drunk in bars all over the world and it does appear to be the anglo-celt cultures where fists get raised very readily.
Methinks I may be in your pen with this one, Mr Been.
“This creates a sort of illusion of correlation that it’s the alcohol causing the problem. But look, if 100,000 people go out drinking in the night-time economy on a Friday night and one person throws a punch, we call it alcohol-fuelled violence, but what about the other 99,999 people who were drinking at the time who managed to stay perfectly controlled?”
Woodie said:
“…but what about the other 99,999 people who were drinking at the time who managed to stay perfectly controlled?”
Alcohol-fuelled bonhomie?
From my experience it really is the anglo-celts cultures who do the biff better than the rest under the influence of alcohol. Not saying that the people, per se, have to be AC, just the culture.
Other cultures can be complete pricks, but it’s other influences that set them off.
“Other cultures can be complete pricks…”
e.g. Japanese (personal experience),
…“but it’s other influences that set them off.”
i.e. them being Japanese.
Woodie said:
sibeen said:
An interesting article on the ABC.http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-27/macho-culture-to-blame-for-alcohol-fuelled-violence-dr-anne-fox/6270072
I sorta agree with this. I’ve drunk in bars all over the world and it does appear to be the anglo-celt cultures where fists get raised very readily.
Methinks I may be in your pen with this one, Mr Been.
“This creates a sort of illusion of correlation that it’s the alcohol causing the problem. But look, if 100,000 people go out drinking in the night-time economy on a Friday night and one person throws a punch, we call it alcohol-fuelled violence, but what about the other 99,999 people who were drinking at the time who managed to stay perfectly controlled?”
Alcohol-fueled coma.
captain_spalding said:
Woodie said:
“…but what about the other 99,999 people who were drinking at the time who managed to stay perfectly controlled?”Alcohol-fuelled bonhomie?
Alcohol-fuelled bon scott?
stumpy_seahorse said:
Oh, Bon was a multi-fuel mechanism, no doubt about it.
Woodie said:
sibeen said:
An interesting article on the ABC.http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-27/macho-culture-to-blame-for-alcohol-fuelled-violence-dr-anne-fox/6270072
I sorta agree with this. I’ve drunk in bars all over the world and it does appear to be the anglo-celt cultures where fists get raised very readily.
Methinks I may be in your pen with this one, Mr Been.
“This creates a sort of illusion of correlation that it’s the alcohol causing the problem. But look, if 100,000 people go out drinking in the night-time economy on a Friday night and one person throws a punch, we call it alcohol-fuelled violence, but what about the other 99,999 people who were drinking at the time who managed to stay perfectly controlled?”
they were egging the one guy on…
‘perfectly controlled’ is a bit of a stretch
sibeen said:
From my experience it really is the anglo-celts cultures who do the biff better than the rest under the influence of alcohol. Not saying that the people, per se, have to be AC, just the culture.Other cultures can be complete pricks, but it’s other influences that set them off.
“Your inhibitions are just social rules. Anthropologists for decades now have been finding through international cross-cultural studies that the way you behave when you’re drunk is mostly the way that your culture teaches you to behave,” she said.
“We see that it’s not so much the patterns of drinking or the levels or consumption that determine how people behave, but other features of culture that are magnified through drunkenness,” she said..
sibeen said:
From my experience it really is the anglo-celts cultures who do the biff better than the rest under the influence of alcohol. Not saying that the people, per se, have to be AC, just the culture.Other cultures can be complete pricks, but it’s other influences that set them off.
“Your inhibitions are just social rules. Anthropologists for decades now have been finding through international cross-cultural studies that the way you behave when you’re drunk is mostly the way that your culture teaches you to behave,” she said.
“We see that it’s not so much the patterns of drinking or the levels or consumption that determine how people behave, but other features of culture that are magnified through drunkenness,” she said..
sibeen said:
From my experience it really is the anglo-celts cultures who do the biff better than the rest under the influence of alcohol. Not saying that the people, per se, have to be AC, just the culture.Other cultures can be complete pricks, but it’s other influences that set them off.
“Your inhibitions are just social rules. Anthropologists for decades now have been finding through international cross-cultural studies that the way you behave when you’re drunk is mostly the way that your culture teaches you to behave,” she said.
“We see that it’s not so much the patterns of drinking or the levels or consumption that determine how people behave, but other features of culture that are magnified through drunkenness,” she said..
Woodie said:
sibeen said:
An interesting article on the ABC.http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-27/macho-culture-to-blame-for-alcohol-fuelled-violence-dr-anne-fox/6270072
I sorta agree with this. I’ve drunk in bars all over the world and it does appear to be the anglo-celt cultures where fists get raised very readily.
Methinks I may be in your pen with this one, Mr Been.
“This creates a sort of illusion of correlation that it’s the alcohol causing the problem. But look, if 100,000 people go out drinking in the night-time economy on a Friday night and one person throws a punch, we call it alcohol-fuelled violence, but what about the other 99,999 people who were drinking at the time who managed to stay perfectly controlled?”
What about them? No one is saying the majority are punch artists. Just that when you track things as alcohol consumption increases or in areas where it is consumed, violence increases.
C_S, I worked in Japan on a few occasions, and except for having to deal with management within the country I never had a problem. Albeit there were probably shitloads calling me a gajin (sp) behind my back.
What I did enjoy was going into meetings with senior management. They didn’t know my ‘status’ and thus would be very confused. Used to lend no end of enjoyment to a meeting :)
Three times counts as more!
triple post Woodie… *makes drinky drinky motion *
Arts said:
they were egging the one guy on…
‘perfectly controlled’ is a bit of a stretch
I see your point, Aunty Arts. Fair enough. 100,000 people out drinking on a Friday night, and one throws a punch. Another 10 egging the guy on. Let’s make that 20. So what were the other 99,980 doing?
sibeen said:
C_S, I worked in Japan on a few occasions, and except for having to deal with management within the country I never had a problem.
Some of the salarymen can go quite loopy with few under their belt. I ended up herding a fewback to the hotel, apologising to the desk staff for them being noisy, piddling in the outside garden, being sick into a pot plant, that sort of thing. And i was supposed to be the guest.
Woodie said:
So what were the other 99,980 doing?
Not triple posting :)
Filming it and posting it to social media…
AwesomeO said:
True.
However…… from 1 in 100,000 to 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 in 100,000 Hardly statistically significant if it were anything else.
captain_spalding said:
sibeen said:
C_S, I worked in Japan on a few occasions, and except for having to deal with management within the country I never had a problem.
Some of the salarymen can go quite loopy with few under their belt. I ended up herding a fewback to the hotel, apologising to the desk staff for them being noisy, piddling in the outside garden, being sick into a pot plant, that sort of thing. And i was supposed to be the guest.
Oh, shit. if that was the problem I had shedloads of that. They really just did not have any idea how to say “no”. I’d be drinking beer, and they’d be drinking scotch. It used to amaze me that even mid sized hotels would have a larger a range of scotch behind the bar than the biggest hotel in Oz.
Woodie said:
Arts said:they were egging the one guy on…
‘perfectly controlled’ is a bit of a stretch
I see your point, Aunty Arts. Fair enough. 100,000 people out drinking on a Friday night, and one throws a punch. Another 10 egging the guy on. Let’s make that 20. So what were the other 99,980 doing?
they are busy having their own good time.
I grew up in hotels (literally, I lived in them) and have seen a lot of drunk people. the truth is alcohol and situation can make anyone become aggressive.. but, apart from the ones who are simply prats looking for an altercation, most people are not out to have a fight.
In short I agree with you.. it’s just one or two who cause the problems… there is more violence at protest rallys.. where very little alcohol is involved…
sibeen said:
Oh, shit. if that was the problem I had shedloads of that.
It seems to be fairly common there, and very much tolerated, with the excuse that it’s all about relase of stress from the working environment. Sounds like a convenient excuse for dick-headery to me.
On the other hand, they seemed to mostly be stupid drunks rather than fighting drunks. I remember thinking that it was like being a kindy teacher with class of shit-faced 5-year-olds.
Woodie said:
I see your point, Aunty Arts.
snigger
I still remember when she was in her blushing youth :)
scratches a bit of scab at top of bald patch
Arts said:
triple post Woodie… *makes drinky drinky motion *
Makes WTF HDTH motion. :) Blames Stoopid satellite interweb connecting webernets thing. Ya know… my posts have gotta go half way to the moon and back every time. They can get lost in translation sometimes. Ya know, moonbeams, space junk, solar flares and their interfering ways. I use the Apollo 13 excuse. “Houston…. we have a problem”. :).
sibeen said:
scratches a bit of scab at top of bald patch
There’s my dreams ruined for tonight.
captain_spalding said:
Some of the salarymen can go quite loopy with few under their belt. I ended up herding a fewback to the hotel, apologising to the desk staff for them being noisy, piddling in the outside garden, being sick into a pot plant, that sort of thing. And i was supposed to be the guest.
Did they get violent and wanna smack the crap outa anyone that mighta looked at them the wrong way?
captain_spalding said:
sibeen said:scratches a bit of scab at top of bald patch
There’s my dreams ruined for tonight.
LOL
captain_spalding said:
sibeen said:Oh, shit. if that was the problem I had shedloads of that.
It seems to be fairly common there, and very much tolerated, with the excuse that it’s all about relase of stress from the working environment. Sounds like a convenient excuse for dick-headery to me.
On the other hand, they seemed to mostly be stupid drunks rather than fighting drunks. I remember thinking that it was like being a kindy teacher with class of shit-faced 5-year-olds.
That’s the thing, cap’n. I used to spend a bit of time staying up in the Roppongi (sp) region of Tokyo. Shitloads of drunken bastards walking out of clubs, yet no-one ever tried to give me grief. Maybe because I’m a reasonable size, but I doubt that. They just don’t walk out of clubs and immediately want a bit of biff.
Woodie said:
Did they get violent and wanna smack the crap outa anyone that mighta looked at them the wrong way?
As i’ve just said, no, generally they were silly/happy when off their faces, just not in the least bit socially responsible, but, no-one seemed to mind as long as someone said “oops, sorry” on behalf of the group. One or two opinions expressed that were a bit confrontational, but they may have lost something in translation by someone with more spirits inside him than i think is medically safe.
Arts said:
they are busy having their own good time.
I grew up in hotels (literally, I lived in them) and have seen a lot of drunk people. the truth is alcohol and situation can make anyone become aggressive.. but, apart from the ones who are simply prats looking for an altercation, most people are not out to have a fight.
In short I agree with you.. it’s just one or two who cause the problems… there is more violence at protest rallys.. where very little alcohol is involved…
Yes…. well why aren’t we addressing these “prats” rather than punishing all those that do not have a problem. Oh…… and I disagree that alcohol and situation can make ANYONE become aggressive.
and yet there’s the story of the General who got the job of running a Mint in the colony’s most isolated location. His wife, who came kicking and screaming, was sad to have no friends, because none of the ‘proper ladies’ would visit her for scones and tea at an establishment where there were also ‘common workers’. So the General gave all his men every Thursday afternoon down at the local pub, so his wife could have her croquet and ladies afternoons… not one of those workers took a day off (allegedly) so alcohol can also bond a group of people.. very very bonding
sibeen said:
scratches a bit of scab at top of bald patch
So what did you do with scabby bit? What’s that you say? OIC…….. that’s nice. Was it tasty?
sibeen said:
That’s the thing, cap’n. I used to spend a bit of time staying up in the Roppongi (sp) region of Tokyo. Shitloads of drunken bastards walking out of clubs, yet no-one ever tried to give me grief. Maybe because I’m a reasonable size, but I doubt that. They just don’t walk out of clubs and immediately want a bit of biff.
I think our case is rested, Mr Been.
Woodie said:
Arts said:they are busy having their own good time.
I grew up in hotels (literally, I lived in them) and have seen a lot of drunk people. the truth is alcohol and situation can make anyone become aggressive.. but, apart from the ones who are simply prats looking for an altercation, most people are not out to have a fight.
In short I agree with you.. it’s just one or two who cause the problems… there is more violence at protest rallys.. where very little alcohol is involved…
Yes…. well why aren’t we addressing these “prats” rather than punishing all those that do not have a problem. Oh…… and I disagree that alcohol and situation can make ANYONE become aggressive.
back in the day the bouncers would just throw them out. I don’t know what happens now.. I occasionally go to a Gay and Lesbian club for the dancing and fun… I’ve not seen a fight break out for over a decade…
Arts said:
and yet there’s the story of the General who got the job of running a Mint in the colony’s most isolated location. His wife, who came kicking and screaming, was sad to have no friends, because none of the ‘proper ladies’ would visit her for scones and tea at an establishment where there were also ‘common workers’. So the General gave all his men every Thursday afternoon down at the local pub, so his wife could have her croquet and ladies afternoons… not one of those workers took a day off (allegedly) so alcohol can also bond a group of people.. very very bonding
*wouldn’t visit
Woodie said:
sibeen said:scratches a bit of scab at top of bald patch
So what did you do with scabby bit? What’s that you say? OIC…….. that’s nice. Was it tasty?
I still have a little bit stuck under my fingernail nibbles, but the rest of it was real nice.
Woodie said:
sibeen said:That’s the thing, cap’n. I used to spend a bit of time staying up in the Roppongi (sp) region of Tokyo. Shitloads of drunken bastards walking out of clubs, yet no-one ever tried to give me grief. Maybe because I’m a reasonable size, but I doubt that. They just don’t walk out of clubs and immediately want a bit of biff.
I think our case is rested, Mr Been.
this thread’s not finished till someones arrested
Woodie said:
Now I wonder why I never thought of using that excuse?
Arts said:
triple post Woodie… *makes drinky drinky motion *
Makes WTF HDTH motion. :) Blames Stoopid satellite interweb connecting webernets thing. Ya know… my posts have gotta go half way to the moon and back every time. They can get lost in translation sometimes. Ya know, moonbeams, space junk, solar flares and their interfering ways. I use the Apollo 13 excuse. “Houston…. we have a problem”. :).
Arts said:
back in the day the bouncers would just throw them out. I don’t know what happens now.. I occasionally go to a Gay and Lesbian club for the dancing and fun… I’ve not seen a fight break out for over a decade…
I think our case is rested, Aunty Arts.
I did my drinkin’ apprenticeship in the barn pubs eastern suburbs of Melbourne. If you weren’t there by 7:30 you were late. The joints shut at 10pm. Not a Saturday night went by without a punch up and doin’ donuts in the carpark. Tis got absolutely nothing at all to do with opening hours. Moved on to other bars/nightclubs and parties for the next 25 years, where up to 20,000+ were there they pretty much never closed, including as much grog including spirits available as you could want, and as many drugs consumed that you could possible shove up your nose. Not once did I see or encounter anything that came close to resembling aggressive behaviour.
Woodie said:
Arts said:back in the day the bouncers would just throw them out. I don’t know what happens now.. I occasionally go to a Gay and Lesbian club for the dancing and fun… I’ve not seen a fight break out for over a decade…
I think our case is rested, Aunty Arts.
I did my drinkin’ apprenticeship in the barn pubs eastern suburbs of Melbourne. If you weren’t there by 7:30 you were late. The joints shut at 10pm. Not a Saturday night went by without a punch up and doin’ donuts in the carpark. Tis got absolutely nothing at all to do with opening hours. Moved on to other bars/nightclubs and parties for the next 25 years, where up to 20,000+ were there they pretty much never closed, including as much grog including spirits available as you could want, and as many drugs consumed that you could possible shove up your nose. Not once did I see or encounter anything that came close to resembling aggressive behaviour.
The worst that I ever saw happen at bikies kegs. yeah that’s like taking a ute load ofs 18 gallon kegs and gear out into the bush along with a gaggle of drunken geese on motorbikes. Everything alcoholic would be drunk wrung out and drunk again. Back to the worst that happened was that if you fell down first you became the urinal until you woke up again.
Woodie said:
……………. where they pretty much never closed, including as much grog including spirits available as you could want, ……………..
Ooopps… thinking about it….. that’s not quite true. There were frequent occasions where they would get a phone call, and to expect a few visitors. They’d come round, collect your drinks, or get you to drink up, and pull down the shutters on the bars. “Sorry we’re closed”.
Once the visit was over, up would go the shutters and pretty much back to normal.
roughbarked said:
Back to the worst that happened was that if you fell down first you became the urinal until you woke up again.
It’s not just bikies, ya know. :) Sorta like Troughman?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TroughmanI may have…. may not have. I’ll think I’ll use “I don’t recall” as my excuse at the enquiry.
Woodie said:
Woodie said:……………. where they pretty much never closed, including as much grog including spirits available as you could want, ……………..Ooopps… thinking about it….. that’s not quite true. There were frequent occasions where they would get a phone call, and to expect a few visitors. They’d come round, collect your drinks, or get you to drink up, and pull down the shutters on the bars. “Sorry we’re closed”.
Once the visit was over, up would go the shutters and pretty much back to normal.
In my youth we’d all end up at the “coro club” after all other places were shut. Looking around in that place I recall seeing the famous trio of detectives Sargeants Ellis and Borthwick and special constable Robbins there every night.
Arts said:
Woodie said:
Arts said:they were egging the one guy on…
‘perfectly controlled’ is a bit of a stretch
I see your point, Aunty Arts. Fair enough. 100,000 people out drinking on a Friday night, and one throws a punch. Another 10 egging the guy on. Let’s make that 20. So what were the other 99,980 doing?
they are busy having their own good time.
I grew up in hotels (literally, I lived in them) and have seen a lot of drunk people. the truth is alcohol and situation can make anyone become aggressive.. but, apart from the ones who are simply prats looking for an altercation, most people are not out to have a fight.
In short I agree with you.. it’s just one or two who cause the problems… there is more violence at protest rallys.. where very little alcohol is involved…
I grew up opposite a pub, The Windsor Castle in Paddo. It was mostly peaceful, but it the 60s and there were a lot of hippy artists and love-ins on the footpath. And jazz, lots of jazz chilling everyone out.Though there was a murder out in the middle of the road near our front door :/
kii said:
Arts said:
Woodie said:I see your point, Aunty Arts. Fair enough. 100,000 people out drinking on a Friday night, and one throws a punch. Another 10 egging the guy on. Let’s make that 20. So what were the other 99,980 doing?
they are busy having their own good time.
I grew up in hotels (literally, I lived in them) and have seen a lot of drunk people. the truth is alcohol and situation can make anyone become aggressive.. but, apart from the ones who are simply prats looking for an altercation, most people are not out to have a fight.
In short I agree with you.. it’s just one or two who cause the problems… there is more violence at protest rallys.. where very little alcohol is involved…
I grew up opposite a pub, The Windsor Castle in Paddo. It was mostly peaceful, but it the 60s and there were a lot of hippy artists and love-ins on the footpath. And jazz, lots of jazz chilling everyone out.Though there was a murder out in the middle of the road near our front door :/
You’ll remember the arts factory then?
Alcohol doesn’t make people violent, what is does is affects people’s impulse control. This is of course especially a problem for people with violent tendencies.
diddly-squat said:
Alcohol doesn’t make people violent, what is does is affects people’s impulse control. This is of course especially a problem for people with violent tendencies.
I should also just note that cultural factors, not just individual factors, play a large role in the nature of these violent tendencies.
That is, i think the Australian macho “bring back the biff” stereotype plays a particular part in this country.
roughbarked said:
kii said:
Arts said:they are busy having their own good time.
I grew up in hotels (literally, I lived in them) and have seen a lot of drunk people. the truth is alcohol and situation can make anyone become aggressive.. but, apart from the ones who are simply prats looking for an altercation, most people are not out to have a fight.
In short I agree with you.. it’s just one or two who cause the problems… there is more violence at protest rallys.. where very little alcohol is involved…
I grew up opposite a pub, The Windsor Castle in Paddo. It was mostly peaceful, but it the 60s and there were a lot of hippy artists and love-ins on the footpath. And jazz, lots of jazz chilling everyone out.Though there was a murder out in the middle of the road near our front door :/
You’ll remember the arts factory then?
Yes…..sort of. I never went, but some of my school friends did.
kii said:
roughbarked said:
kii said:I grew up opposite a pub, The Windsor Castle in Paddo. It was mostly peaceful, but it the 60s and there were a lot of hippy artists and love-ins on the footpath. And jazz, lots of jazz chilling everyone out.Though there was a murder out in the middle of the road near our front door :/
You’ll remember the arts factory then?
Yes…..sort of. I never went, but some of my school friends did.
If you were still at school then the arts factory was way past your bedtime.
diddly-squat said:
diddly-squat said:Alcohol doesn’t make people violent, what is does is affects people’s impulse control. This is of course especially a problem for people with violent tendencies.
I should also just note that cultural factors, not just individual factors, play a large role in the nature of these violent tendencies.
That is, i think the Australian macho “bring back the biff” stereotype plays a particular part in this country.
I think drinking a lot of alcohol can impair judgment.
dv said:
diddly-squat said:
diddly-squat said:Alcohol doesn’t make people violent, what is does is affects people’s impulse control. This is of course especially a problem for people with violent tendencies.
I should also just note that cultural factors, not just individual factors, play a large role in the nature of these violent tendencies.
That is, i think the Australian macho “bring back the biff” stereotype plays a particular part in this country.
I think drinking a lot of alcohol can impair judgment.
You think?
What I need to think is that I need to be at the pathology clinic at 7:30 am. One must respect the rules of fasting and sleeping prior to the event.
kii said:
Arts said:
Woodie said:I see your point, Aunty Arts. Fair enough. 100,000 people out drinking on a Friday night, and one throws a punch. Another 10 egging the guy on. Let’s make that 20. So what were the other 99,980 doing?
they are busy having their own good time.
I grew up in hotels (literally, I lived in them) and have seen a lot of drunk people. the truth is alcohol and situation can make anyone become aggressive.. but, apart from the ones who are simply prats looking for an altercation, most people are not out to have a fight.
In short I agree with you.. it’s just one or two who cause the problems… there is more violence at protest rallys.. where very little alcohol is involved…
I grew up opposite a pub, The Windsor Castle in Paddo. It was mostly peaceful, but it the 60s and there were a lot of hippy artists and love-ins on the footpath. And jazz, lots of jazz chilling everyone out.Though there was a murder out in the middle of the road near our front door :/
I saw my fair share of violence. I was five when I saw a man stabbed in the carpark (I used to watch the carpark from the roof of the pub that I got to from my bedroom window) I watched a ‘gang’ fight and saw brains explode and saw a guy break, in anger, one of the big windows at the front of the pub, because he couldn’t get the change out of the pay phone. I saw the aftermath of a shooting of one of our on site bouncers went to check out when the alarm went off ..
so I saw some pretty horrific things.. but for the most part people just have fun.
However, one punch incidents that occur and have tragic circumstances usually occur because of alcohol and short tempers.
for a laugh you could go into a pub, offer everyone lots of free drinks then return in half an hour in an iron man suit and start a fight
being a mechanical fist I’d figure you’d have an impressive list of dead and maimed within 5 minutes
wookiemeister said:
for a laugh you could go into a pub, offer everyone lots of free drinks then return in half an hour in an iron man suit and start a fightbeing a mechanical fist I’d figure you’d have an impressive list of dead and maimed within 5 minutes
You mean you’d go into a pub carrying an ironing board and sunbeam?
I’ve drunk in bars all over the world and it does appear to be the anglo-celt cultures where fists get raised very readily.OTOH, there are quite a few cultures that are arguably more “macho” than Australia. Eastern European, Latino, Arab, African, African American, Indian etc.
Perhaps that’s because anglo-celt cultures don’t habitually carry knives, unlike some other “macho” cultures.
Some truths in that article, but goes off the rails terribly when it uses the word “just”. Funny ol’ word it is, rarely is it merely as it pretends, it sort of is meant to help things glide unimpeded into your head often, wonderfully uncomplicating little beast, quite different I’m sure to an alcohol-induced chemical lobotomy.
““Your inhibitions are just social rules. Anthropologists for decades now have been finding through international cross-cultural studies that the way you behave when you’re drunk is mostly the way that your culture teaches you to behave,” she said”
In fact the statement “your inhibitions are just social rules” is wrong.
Haven’t read the full thread, and didn’t read the full article, because when I got to:
“Alcohol – as all of the scientific literature shows, which we’ve reviewed very extensively in the report – cannot be considered a cause of violence. If it was, we’d see uniform levels of violence among all drinkers.”
I decided that anyone who comes out with such obvious crap is not worth reading any further.
The Rev Dodgson said:
Haven’t read the full thread, and didn’t read the full article, because when I got to:“Alcohol – as all of the scientific literature shows, which we’ve reviewed very extensively in the report – cannot be considered a cause of violence. If it was, we’d see uniform levels of violence among all drinkers.”
I decided that anyone who comes out with such obvious crap is not worth reading any further.
clever reading and valuation.