I’ve found copying the lip exercise that orang’s and chimps practice is an enjoyable exercise. Orangutang in particular exhibit highly developed lip musculature and a particularly peaceful social outlook.

Subsequently to the title question, is social development a more apllicable measure of IQ than comprehension of abstracted scales and guages and the relationship of these to the phenomena of nature?

Orang utans are solitary animals. Usually one male will oversee an area containing females (a harem if you like), but they prefer to only come together to mate.
As such they haven’t developed the fine facial muscles for communication (which is why people often say they look ‘sad’ – they aren’t sad… that’s how they look)

As for the lips.. they will ‘kiss’ and hiss at you as a sign of dominance. They are not ice ‘kisses’ that is their first ‘warning’ as such.

Chimpanzees, on the other hand, are highly social creatures and enjoy facial expressions similar to humans, thier lip movements are motivated by completely different reasons

so… no

Many quite primitive critters have highly developed lips.

Arts said:

so… no

yes the title question should have been posed as does lip exercise develop social areas of the brain. A comparison for this would be with dolphins. They are social but involve violence in their social interactions. Within the ape family there is a greater range of facial development. I am isolating lip exercise as a factor that minimises violence in social interaction. Your comparisons are not concise without greater examination.

Bubblecar said:

Many quite primitive critters have highly developed lips.

!http://i2.cdnds.net/13/13/618×668/fish-mick-jagger-kips.jpg

Which is why I introduced dolphin and whale as mammals.

“does lip exercise develop social areas of the brain”

no.

In answer to your second question, it’s generally agreed that increasingly complex social interaction was one of the key catalysts for the development of more powerful human brains.

Arts said:

“does lip exercise develop social areas of the brain”

no.

data?

Arts said:

“does lip exercise develop social areas of the brain connected to resolution conflict”

That would reflect a more accurate assessment of my question.

in the two species you named in the op, both use their lips in ‘similar’ way but for very different reasons due to their social constructs. One is very social, the other not at all.. but they both move their lips.

then you introduced violence in dolphins for some reason….

Postpocelipse said:

Arts said:

“does lip exercise develop social areas of the brain connected to resolution conflict”

That would reflect a more accurate assessment of my question.

ok

no

Arts said:

Postpocelipse said:

Arts said:

“does lip exercise develop social areas of the brain connected to resolution conflict”

That would reflect a more accurate assessment of my question.

ok

no

bullshit. how have you measured that. The species that has learnt the best ways to kiss has dominated the planet!

The BBC Horizon program did a reasonable doco on the subject.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75XxjJYuV7I&list=PLB20439E638039F36

It’s about an hour long, but very interesting. Part 2 deals with all attempts at training apes to speak and how they failed. Seems we humans have a gene for it, and other animals don’t

I’d be interested to know at what level Neanderthals could use language.

chimpanzees participate in organised violence

• I’d be interested to know at what level Neanderthals could use language.

Like an early form of cockney…

giraffes have very agile lips with a lot of control, they participate in acts of dominance in a violent manner

party_pants said:

The BBC Horizon program did a reasonable doco on the subject.

I’d be interested to know at what level Neanderthals could use language.

Obvious area to measure this question from as regard evolutionary origin of language. Does the impulse to kiss during mating maximise the motivation for language construction?

• Does the impulse to kiss during mating maximise the motivation for language construction?

What?

furious said:

• I’d be interested to know at what level Neanderthals could use language.

Like an early form of cockney…

early? more like genre specific form of cockney. You’d probably call it Python Cocknee or something.

Arts said:

giraffes have very agile lips with a lot of control, they participate in acts of dominance in a violent manner

they don’t cuddle or look at their partner either

furious said:

• I’d be interested to know at what level Neanderthals could use language.

Like an early form of cockney…

Hahahahahahahahaha!

:) :)

Postpocelipse said:

party_pants said:

The BBC Horizon program did a reasonable doco on the subject.

I’d be interested to know at what level Neanderthals could use language.

Obvious area to measure this question from as regard evolutionary origin of language. Does the impulse to kiss during mating maximise the motivation for language construction?

No.The lips are only peripheral to language. I suggest you watch the program I posted. Is quite good and covers a lot of aspects of the subject. It explains a lot more than I can be bothered to type.

Postpocelipse said:

bullshit. how have you measured that.

observation, lecture attendance and food interaction with orang utans for the last five years Having never come across a link such as this… not saying you are wrong.. if you can find some data supporting it, then I’d be interested to read it and, if plausible, change my mind..

Postpocelipse said:

Arts said:

giraffes have very agile lips with a lot of control, they participate in acts of dominance in a violent manner

they don’t cuddle or look at their partner either

actually they are very gentle when trying to woo a mate… they even rub her genitals with their head horns to get her in the mood.. a sort of foreplay .. nice for her

party_pants said:

Postpocelipse said:

party_pants said:

The BBC Horizon program did a reasonable doco on the subject.

I’d be interested to know at what level Neanderthals could use language.

Obvious area to measure this question from as regard evolutionary origin of language. Does the impulse to kiss during mating maximise the motivation for language construction?

No.The lips are only peripheral to language. I suggest you watch the program I posted. Is quite good and covers a lot of aspects of the subject. It explains a lot more than I can be bothered to type.

But where is the point where language is most required to become an evolutionary necessity. Mating for humans has become enormously complex. Does that not draw a connection between language development and lip muscle complexities connection to brain development?

Arts said:

Postpocelipse said:

bullshit. how have you measured that.

observation, lecture attendance and food interaction with orang utans for the last five years Having never come across a link such as this… not saying you are wrong.. if you can find some data supporting it, then I’d be interested to read it and, if plausible, change my mind..

this is no-specific to human development as the maximal expression not orangutan.

furious said:

• I’d be interested to know at what level Neanderthals could use language.

Like an early form of cockney…

Diabolical, it wasn’t ‘alf bleedin’ brass monkeys stuck in them caves all day with the narky ball and chain, they ‘ad to go the banter to stop goin’ barmy, know what I mean?

Postpocelipse said:

party_pants said:

Postpocelipse said:

Obvious area to measure this question from as regard evolutionary origin of language. Does the impulse to kiss during mating maximise the motivation for language construction?

No.The lips are only peripheral to language. I suggest you watch the program I posted. Is quite good and covers a lot of aspects of the subject. It explains a lot more than I can be bothered to type.

But where is the point where language is most required to become an evolutionary necessity. Mating for humans has become enormously complex. Does that not draw a connection between language development and lip muscle complexities connection to brain development?

No. Not really.

Arts said:

Postpocelipse said:

Arts said:

giraffes have very agile lips with a lot of control, they participate in acts of dominance in a violent manner

they don’t cuddle or look at their partner either

actually they are very gentle when trying to woo a mate… they even rub her genitals with their head horns to get her in the mood.. a sort of foreplay .. nice for her

Does lip sensitivity promote empathic behaviours. good way to put it.

Postpocelipse said:

party_pants said:

Postpocelipse said:

Obvious area to measure this question from as regard evolutionary origin of language. Does the impulse to kiss during mating maximise the motivation for language construction?

No.The lips are only peripheral to language. I suggest you watch the program I posted. Is quite good and covers a lot of aspects of the subject. It explains a lot more than I can be bothered to type.

But where is the point where language is most required to become an evolutionary necessity. Mating for humans has become enormously complex. Does that not draw a connection between language development and lip muscle complexities connection to brain development?

Not necessarily.

Perhaps a pertinent question to ask might be: “Do any other animals kiss?” And then compare those results to the observations you have made, and the idea you have.

wait.. did you just move the goal posts?

Bubblecar said:

furious said:

• I’d be interested to know at what level Neanderthals could use language.

Like an early form of cockney…

Diabolical, it wasn’t ‘alf bleedin’ brass monkeys stuck in them caves all day with the narky ball and chain, they ‘ad to go the banter to stop goin’ barmy, know what I mean?

Know what you mean? Where ya think I blimmin come from? “The future” you’re always talkin about? It’s a blimmin paradoxical impossibility I’ve telled ya! We will be here livin out of caves till the end’o tha blimmin universe. “You’ll” just have ta get used ta it.

Arts said:

wait.. did you just move the goal posts?

yes I did not define the question functionally in the OP properly. The subsequent question supplied in the OP was the defining analysis to the title question.

Postpocelipse said:

ChrispenEvan said:

dunno, but not all human societies have kissing as part of their interactions.

It just occurred to me that the need to describe an emotion might be a greater factor in language development than the need to communicate on other subjects. This might also be connected to the role of religion in language development and the origin of religion’s domination of the human psyche.

Michael V said:

Bubblecar said:

Well, there you go!

And Bonobos, too, apparently. They are supposed to be randy buggers too. You may have to read about these animals. (Both the fish and the bonobos.)

Michael V said:

Michael V said:

Bubblecar said:

Well, there you go!

And Bonobos, too, apparently. They are supposed to be randy buggers too. You may have to read about these animals. (Both the fish and the bonobos.)

are they kissing or exchanging chemicals?

monkey skipper said:

Michael V said:

Michael V said:

Well, there you go!

And Bonobos, too, apparently. They are supposed to be randy buggers too. You may have to read about these animals. (Both the fish and the bonobos.)

are they kissing or exchanging chemicals?

What’s the difference ?

Dropbear said:

monkey skipper said:

Michael V said:

And Bonobos, too, apparently. They are supposed to be randy buggers too. You may have to read about these animals. (Both the fish and the bonobos.)

are they kissing or exchanging chemicals?

What’s the difference ?

coral spawn in the water …. the fish might be pre-emptive spawning to chemically commence the full biological process …. some fish have fish in their gullet as do some amphibians the mouth thing may not be human like at all.

humans don’t kiss for reproduction only for example

Dropbear said:

monkey skipper said:

Michael V said:

And Bonobos, too, apparently. They are supposed to be randy buggers too. You may have to read about these animals. (Both the fish and the bonobos.)

are they kissing or exchanging chemicals?

What’s the difference ?

Got it in one huh.

monkey skipper said:

Dropbear said:

monkey skipper said:

are they kissing or exchanging chemicals?

What’s the difference ?

coral spawn in the water …. the fish might be pre-emptive spawning to chemically commence the full biological process …. some fish have fish in their gullet as do some amphibians the mouth thing may not be human like at all.

humans don’t kiss for reproduction only for example

Kissing can chemically commence the full biological process :)

monkey skipper said:

humans don’t kiss for reproduction only for example

that does not define the basis of the question of language development being motivated more by emotional description than technical.

Dropbear said:

monkey skipper said:

Dropbear said:

What’s the difference ?

coral spawn in the water …. the fish might be pre-emptive spawning to chemically commence the full biological process …. some fish have fish in their gullet as do some amphibians the mouth thing may not be human like at all.

humans don’t kiss for reproduction only for example

Kissing can chemically commence the full biological process :)

perhaps but not kiising is sexual there are many plutonic occasions for kissing though as well

Dropbear said:

monkey skipper said:

Dropbear said:

What’s the difference ?

coral spawn in the water …. the fish might be pre-emptive spawning to chemically commence the full biological process …. some fish have fish in their gullet as do some amphibians the mouth thing may not be human like at all.

humans don’t kiss for reproduction only for example

Kissing can chemically commence the full biological process :)

I think. :D

Postpocelipse said:

monkey skipper said:

humans don’t kiss for reproduction only for example

that does not define the basis of the question of language development being motivated more by emotional description than technical.

interpreting text was a late late late development and adaptation apparently not deemed crucial for survival then I would guess this has changed with further development of the modern human

Kissing can chemically commence the full biological process

this. pheromones.

>>The most distinctive feature of the kissing gourami is its mouth. Other than being terminal (forward-facing) rather than superior (upward-facing) as in other gourami families, the kissing gourami’s mouth is highly protrusible as its family name suggests, the lips are lined with horny teeth

>>The fish use their toothed lips to rasp algae from stones and other surfaces. This rasping action, which (to humans) looks superficially like kissing, is also used by males to challenge the dominancy of conspecifics.

>>Kissing gouramis are territorial; some are tolerant towards fish of similar size, but others will bully, chase, and torment, causing significant stress on tank mates. Male kissers will occasionally challenge each other; however, the “kissing” itself is never fatal, but the constant bullying can stress the other fish to death. They often do in fact kill other fish by sucking the mucus off of their skin as food, which opens the victim fish up to infections.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kissing_gourami

chewing has a lot to do with the capacity to develop early muscles to move the mouth muscles to form sounds…I am guessing this point maybe relevant to some degree.

monkey skipper said:

Postpocelipse said:

monkey skipper said:

humans don’t kiss for reproduction only for example

that does not define the basis of the question of language development being motivated more by emotional description than technical.

interpreting text was a late late late development and adaptation apparently not deemed crucial for survival then I would guess this has changed with further development of the modern human

yes exactly. If I’ve got you straight.

PermeateFree said:

>>The most distinctive feature of the kissing gourami is its mouth. Other than being terminal (forward-facing) rather than superior (upward-facing) as in other gourami families, the kissing gourami’s mouth is highly protrusible as its family name suggests, the lips are lined with horny teeth

>>The fish use their toothed lips to rasp algae from stones and other surfaces. This rasping action, which (to humans) looks superficially like kissing, is also used by males to challenge the dominancy of conspecifics.

>>Kissing gouramis are territorial; some are tolerant towards fish of similar size, but others will bully, chase, and torment, causing significant stress on tank mates. Male kissers will occasionally challenge each other; however, the “kissing” itself is never fatal, but the constant bullying can stress the other fish to death. They often do in fact kill other fish by sucking the mucus off of their skin as food, which opens the victim fish up to infections.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kissing_gourami

that represents a social complex that avoids violence.

monkey skipper said:

chewing has a lot to do with the capacity to develop early muscles to move the mouth muscles to form sounds…I am guessing this point maybe relevant to some degree.

I get the flashback…….“chew your food 50 times each mouthfull”

monkey skipper said:

chewing has a lot to do with the capacity to develop early muscles to move the mouth muscles to form sounds…I am guessing this point maybe relevant to some degree.

What we eat and have developed and evolved to cope to eat would be relevant. some apes use the lips to separate the skin from fruits and foods that they eat , for example. I am guessing our mouths discern what does or does not enter…

Postpocelipse said:

monkey skipper said:

chewing has a lot to do with the capacity to develop early muscles to move the mouth muscles to form sounds…I am guessing this point maybe relevant to some degree.

I get the flashback…….“chew your food 50 times each mouthfull”

it is well understood children who have difficulty transitioning from smooth foods to lumps and bumps often have speech delays…you need muscle control to form the actions for sounds as well as the auditory influences etc etc… before we ate meat and needed to tear meat from the bones our mouths and lips may have been forming and flexing differently.. apes and monkeys could be viewed for these differences.

to discern what went in mouthes keeps the species going (makes sense)

monkey skipper said:

Postpocelipse said:

monkey skipper said:

chewing has a lot to do with the capacity to develop early muscles to move the mouth muscles to form sounds…I am guessing this point maybe relevant to some degree.

I get the flashback…….“chew your food 50 times each mouthfull”

it is well understood children who have difficulty transitioning from smooth foods to lumps and bumps often have speech delays…you need muscle control to form the actions for sounds as well as the auditory influences etc etc… before we ate meat and needed to tear meat from the bones our mouths and lips may have been forming and flexing differently.. apes and monkeys could be viewed for these differences.

to discern what went in mouthes keeps the species going (makes sense)

of autism and all sorts of things I think.

Postpocelipse said:

monkey skipper said:

Postpocelipse said:

I get the flashback…….“chew your food 50 times each mouthfull”

it is well understood children who have difficulty transitioning from smooth foods to lumps and bumps often have speech delays…you need muscle control to form the actions for sounds as well as the auditory influences etc etc… before we ate meat and needed to tear meat from the bones our mouths and lips may have been forming and flexing differently.. apes and monkeys could be viewed for these differences.

to discern what went in mouthes keeps the species going (makes sense)

of autism and all sorts of things I think.

not limited to….there are many children with speech delays and not necessarily experience life with symptoms that fit the profile of autism…..children with dyspraxia often experience auditory, speech and visual discrimination delays

monkey skipper said:

Postpocelipse said:

monkey skipper said:

it is well understood children who have difficulty transitioning from smooth foods to lumps and bumps often have speech delays…you need muscle control to form the actions for sounds as well as the auditory influences etc etc… before we ate meat and needed to tear meat from the bones our mouths and lips may have been forming and flexing differently.. apes and monkeys could be viewed for these differences.

to discern what went in mouthes keeps the species going (makes sense)

of autism and all sorts of things I think.

not limited to….there are many children with speech delays and not necessarily experience life with symptoms that fit the profile of autism…..children with dyspraxia often experience auditory, speech and visual discrimination delays

No I mean as an origin these things can be linked to the parts of the brain that are associated to chemical sensory processing.

My vote is diet needs plays the biggest role in lip development of a species but probably a dual diversification and/or adaptation was co-created that links with social/sexual experimentation .

monkey skipper said:

My vote is diet needs plays the biggest role in lip development of a species but probably a dual diversification and/or adaptation was co-created that links with social/sexual experimentation .

She who has the most luscious lips wins

monkey skipper said:

My vote is diet needs plays the biggest role in lip development of a species but probably a dual diversification and/or adaptation was co-created that links with social/sexual experimentation .

The requirement to describe the pheromones being exchanged was more complex than the ability to make sounds that indicated pleasure.

Postpocelipse said:

monkey skipper said:

Postpocelipse said:

of autism and all sorts of things I think.

not limited to….there are many children with speech delays and not necessarily experience life with symptoms that fit the profile of autism…..children with dyspraxia often experience auditory, speech and visual discrimination delays

No I mean as an origin these things can be linked to the parts of the brain that are associated to chemical sensory processing.

ah….well in that sense yes. humans are purely sensory at birth and mouth objects to develop an understand of shape, texture and taste…the tongue touching objects mouthed can help form a picture of an object or the development of that region of the brain to develop that capacity

Dropbear said:

monkey skipper said:

My vote is diet needs plays the biggest role in lip development of a species but probably a dual diversification and/or adaptation was co-created that links with social/sexual experimentation .

She who has the most luscious lips wins

I just figured out one of the swollen bit’s on a female Megamind.

Postpocelipse said:

PermeateFree said:

>>The most distinctive feature of the kissing gourami is its mouth. Other than being terminal (forward-facing) rather than superior (upward-facing) as in other gourami families, the kissing gourami’s mouth is highly protrusible as its family name suggests, the lips are lined with horny teeth

>>The fish use their toothed lips to rasp algae from stones and other surfaces. This rasping action, which (to humans) looks superficially like kissing, is also used by males to challenge the dominancy of conspecifics.

>>Kissing gouramis are territorial; some are tolerant towards fish of similar size, but others will bully, chase, and torment, causing significant stress on tank mates. Male kissers will occasionally challenge each other; however, the “kissing” itself is never fatal, but the constant bullying can stress the other fish to death. They often do in fact kill other fish by sucking the mucus off of their skin as food, which opens the victim fish up to infections.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kissing_gourami

that represents a social complex that avoids violence.

That is as violent as those fish can get. That is NOT avoiding violence.

Postpocelipse said:

monkey skipper said:

My vote is diet needs plays the biggest role in lip development of a species but probably a dual diversification and/or adaptation was co-created that links with social/sexual experimentation .

The requirement to describe the pheromones being exchanged was more complex than the ability to make sounds that indicated pleasure.

I meant communication and replication of sounds identified to be a determined language within a human group…or decipherable sounds of some sort as animals still do and certainly primates whom have a species of monkey that are suggested to be the first attempting language similar to the suggested early human like noises/utterances or whatever

PermeateFree said:

Postpocelipse said:

PermeateFree said:

>>The most distinctive feature of the kissing gourami is its mouth. Other than being terminal (forward-facing) rather than superior (upward-facing) as in other gourami families, the kissing gourami’s mouth is highly protrusible as its family name suggests, the lips are lined with horny teeth

>>The fish use their toothed lips to rasp algae from stones and other surfaces. This rasping action, which (to humans) looks superficially like kissing, is also used by males to challenge the dominancy of conspecifics.

>>Kissing gouramis are territorial; some are tolerant towards fish of similar size, but others will bully, chase, and torment, causing significant stress on tank mates. Male kissers will occasionally challenge each other; however, the “kissing” itself is never fatal, but the constant bullying can stress the other fish to death. They often do in fact kill other fish by sucking the mucus off of their skin as food, which opens the victim fish up to infections.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kissing_gourami

that represents a social complex that avoids violence.

That is as violent as those fish can get. That is NOT avoiding violence.

do both swim away?

Dropbear said:

monkey skipper said:

My vote is diet needs plays the biggest role in lip development of a species but probably a dual diversification and/or adaptation was co-created that links with social/sexual experimentation .

She who has the most luscious lips wins

Oh yes. Yes, yes, yes…

Michael V said:

Dropbear said:

monkey skipper said:

My vote is diet needs plays the biggest role in lip development of a species but probably a dual diversification and/or adaptation was co-created that links with social/sexual experimentation .

She who has the most luscious lips wins

Oh yes. Yes, yes, yes…

golf chuckle

Michael V said:

Dropbear said:

monkey skipper said:

My vote is diet needs plays the biggest role in lip development of a species but probably a dual diversification and/or adaptation was co-created that links with social/sexual experimentation .

She who has the most luscious lips wins

Oh yes. Yes, yes, yes…

settle petals

monkey skipper said:

Michael V said:

Dropbear said:

She who has the most luscious lips wins

Oh yes. Yes, yes, yes…

settle petals

You might assume the females of the species would develop a different complexity of language while the males were out pointing and frowning expressively with lots of head and handmovements. Back to topic and all.

>I’ve found copying the lip exercise that orang’s and chimps practice is an enjoyable exercise.

a related’n possibly interesting question
is of that inhibitory social dimension’n the mechanism
of the taboo re pulling faces do mention
seems powerful thing why is it this way do you reckon

transition said:

>I’ve found copying the lip exercise that orang’s and chimps practice is an enjoyable exercise.

a related’n possibly interesting question
is of that inhibitory social dimension’n the mechanism
of the taboo re pulling faces do mention
seems powerful thing why is it this way do you reckon

yeah I see what you mean

Bubblecar said:

Many quite primitive critters have highly developed lips.

How can you call that critter primitive?

It’s got four eyes.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Bubblecar said:

Many quite primitive critters have highly developed lips.

!http://i2.cdnds.net/13/13/618×668/fish-mick-jagger-kips.jpg

How can you call that critter primitive?

It’s got four eyes.

Spectacles are evidence of technology.

‘We shaved our pubic hair: Read our lips: No Bush’

I’m still ot eve exactly sure what the question is..

are you hypothesizing that animals with good lip control are ‘nicer’ to each other in sexual behaviour?

grrrr

nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

Arts said:

I’m still ot eve exactly sure what the question is..

are you hypothesizing that animals with good lip control are ‘nicer’ to each other in sexual behaviour?

I’m hypothesisng that the muscle most closely associated to hormone sensing are the lip muscles. This has played a role in the development of language that identifies emotional description as providing greater motivation to language construction than the requirement to discuss technical detail.

Thus the examination of a species lip complexity should be correlative to the dynamics of it’s social development.

Postpocelipse said:

Arts said:

I’m still ot eve exactly sure what the question is..

are you hypothesizing that animals with good lip control are ‘nicer’ to each other in sexual behaviour?

I’m hypothesisng that the muscle most closely associated to hormone sensing are the lip muscles. This has played a role in the development of language that identifies emotional description as providing greater motivation to language construction than the requirement to discuss technical detail.

Thus the examination of a species lip complexity should be correlative to the dynamics of it’s social development.

check out flehmen response and vomeronasal organ

Postpocelipse said:

I’ve found copying the lip exercise that orang’s and chimps practice is an enjoyable exercise. Orangutang in particular exhibit highly developed lip musculature and a particularly peaceful social outlook.

*chuckle
Giraffe’s and horses have quite dexterous lip muscles also

Postpocelipse said:

Subsequently to the title question, is social development a more aplicable measure of IQ than comprehension of abstracted scales and guages and the relationship of these to the phenomena of nature?

No idea.

btw, is 100 still the statistical norm for IQ

If human IQ is rising in the general population, you would expect the statistical average to rise also, yes/no?

I don’t think I’ve ever done an ‘official’ IQ test, I vaguely remember doing a test in early high school which may have been for IQ but can’t remember the details of it.
I believe there is more than one type of IQ test.

vomeronasal organ

s that in frogs? i could look it up but i want to guess first. i know, pretty sure anyway, frogs have vomeral “teeth” (sp)

right lots of mammals and vomerine teeth.close.

:-)

Arts said:

check out flehmen response and vomeronasal organ

wut?!
Can you speak-a dee Engrish, prease?

- _ -

Aquila said:

Arts said:

check out flehmen response and vomeronasal organ

wut?!
Can you speak-a dee Engrish, prease?

- _ -

I am… just type them into google and prepare to be amazed

Arts said:

Aquila said:

Arts said:

check out flehmen response and vomeronasal organ

wut?!
Can you speak-a dee Engrish, prease?

- _ -

I am… just type them into google and prepare to be amazed

yeah right-e-o……after I make a cup of tea

lol

Arts said:

Aquila said:

Arts said:

check out flehmen response and vomeronasal organ

wut?!
Can you speak-a dee Engrish, prease?

- _ -

I am… just type them into google and prepare to be amazed

or highlight and hit “search google for”. Thanks for the ref Arts. Entirely appropriate. :)

no