Date: 10/03/2015 11:43:16
From: Bubblecar
ID: 691257
Subject: Narcissistic Children

Seems a dubious study to me because the assumption is apparently that “narcissism” is restricted to kids whose merits relative to others are over-valued. But there’s no reason to assume that children who really are particularly high achievers are somehow immune from narcissism.

>Too much praise helps create narcissistic kids

Overvaluing and overpraising children can contribute to the development of narcissism, researchers have found.

A study, published today in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Science , answers a long-standing question of whether narcissistic traits develop as a result of too much or too little parental attention.

Narcissism is named after the proud, vain hunter Narcissus, a figure in Greek mythology who fell so in love with his own reflection in a still pool of water that he eventually drowned in it.

Lead researcher and post-doctoral researcher Eddie Brummelman says he became fascinated with narcissism in children and wanted to explore how it emerged.

“It’s children who feel they are better than others, but they also demand constant attention and admiration from others,” says Brummelman, from the University of Amsterdam.

“In essence, they are very vulnerable, says Brummelman.

“For instance, when they are criticised or feel humiliated, they tend to become aggressive.”

There have been two competing theories about the parental influence on narcissistic traits; one suggests that narcissism evolves as a defence mechanism to cope with a lack of parental warmth and affection, while the other posits that it’s actually the result of too much praise.

“Social learning theory suggests that the narcissism develops when parents believe their children are more important than others, more special than others, more entitled than others,” Brummelman says.

The study enrolled 565 Dutch children aged 7-11 years and at least one parent, telling them that it was a study of self-image and how parents raise their children.

The children were given questionnaires designed to measure their self-esteem, and to evaluate how much affection they experienced from their parents, while the parents completed questionnaires designed to pick up on overvaluation but also to assess how affectionate parents were towards their children.

“The questionnaire has items like, ‘my child is more special than others’, ‘my child is a great example for others to follow’,” Brummelman says.

Researchers then asked parents to evaluate how smart they thought their child was, and compared it to the child’s actual IQ, but also tested how much parents valued their child’s knowledge levels.

“We gave them a long list of many different topics to choose from that the children should be familiar with when they are eight years old, and we included some topics that do not exist,” Brummelman says,

“You see that these overvaluing parents, they claim the children have knowledge of all kinds of different topics, including these non-existent ones.”

Full report: http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2015/03/10/4193979.htm

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Date: 10/03/2015 12:31:08
From: transition
ID: 691273
Subject: re: Narcissistic Children

hmm….

haven’t read the article, bet though the extent they explored the internal monologue and self-reporting regard internal mental states was about as helpful as TV and all. Nope, probably ticked a few boxes, and if the children weren’t then the adults were.

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Date: 10/03/2015 12:59:19
From: transition
ID: 691282
Subject: re: Narcissistic Children

alright done read that
you know everything is ‘entertainment’
go so feeding ‘m brat
abundant tend good sense derailment
they ‘m be what want
plenty that adult make money providin’
media too all them lot
food, clothes, movies it is never endin’
good no surely be not
article also it more of the same tendin’

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Date: 10/03/2015 13:08:13
From: buffy
ID: 691288
Subject: re: Narcissistic Children

Stopped reading at IQ tests….

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Date: 10/03/2015 13:54:27
From: Arts
ID: 691330
Subject: re: Narcissistic Children

they didn’t say anything about IQ tests, just that the subjects IQ was part of the comparative study.

This is interesting : “We gave them a long list of many different topics to choose from that the children should be familiar with when they are eight years old, and we included some topics that do not exist,” Brummelman says,

“You see that these overvaluing parents, they claim the children have knowledge of all kinds of different topics, including these non-existent ones.”

They found that there was a significant relationship between parental overvaluation and narcissistic traits in their children, but Brummelman stresses that it was a relatively small association.

“It’s good for parents to know that they don’t run the risk of creating a narcissist overnight,” he says.

“It’s a very modest association, but it does show that over time, overvaluation can make an important contribution to the development of narcissism, but … it’s not the only cause.”

I think we should be allowing our kids to accept that they are ‘worthy of any position – should they put in the necessary effort to get there’ eg not “you can do anything” (because that’s simply not true) but “you are worthy of getting there with the correct effort and focus”

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Date: 10/03/2015 14:05:25
From: Bubblecar
ID: 691347
Subject: re: Narcissistic Children

>I think we should be allowing our kids to accept that they are ‘worthy of any position – should they put in the necessary effort to get there’ eg not “you can do anything” (because that’s simply not true) but “you are worthy of getting there with the correct effort and focus”

Yes but basic aptitude and ability are essential too. E.g., most people have no hope of ever becoming classical concert soloists no matter how much effort they put into it.

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Date: 10/03/2015 14:09:41
From: Bubblecar
ID: 691352
Subject: re: Narcissistic Children

Bubblecar said:


>I think we should be allowing our kids to accept that they are ‘worthy of any position – should they put in the necessary effort to get there’ eg not “you can do anything” (because that’s simply not true) but “you are worthy of getting there with the correct effort and focus”

Yes but basic aptitude and ability are essential too. E.g., most people have no hope of ever becoming classical concert soloists no matter how much effort they put into it.

….and actually becoming one of the world’s highest achievers in this or that field doesn’t in any way ensure that the individual won’t be highly narcissistic about it :)

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Date: 10/03/2015 14:11:32
From: Arts
ID: 691357
Subject: re: Narcissistic Children

Bubblecar said:


>I think we should be allowing our kids to accept that they are ‘worthy of any position – should they put in the necessary effort to get there’ eg not “you can do anything” (because that’s simply not true) but “you are worthy of getting there with the correct effort and focus”

Yes but basic aptitude and ability are essential too. E.g., most people have no hope of ever becoming classical concert soloists no matter how much effort they put into it.

I don’t agree. Basic aptitude and ability can come with practice. having a natural ability doesn’t automatically mean you will be the best.. it does, however, give one more motivation to be the best.

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Date: 10/03/2015 14:13:07
From: roughbarked
ID: 691360
Subject: re: Narcissistic Children

Arts said:

Basic aptitude and ability can come with practice. having a natural ability doesn’t automatically mean you will be the best.. it can, however, give one more motivation to be the best.

•fixed*

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Date: 10/03/2015 14:17:57
From: Cymek
ID: 691370
Subject: re: Narcissistic Children

Arts said:


Bubblecar said:

>I think we should be allowing our kids to accept that they are ‘worthy of any position – should they put in the necessary effort to get there’ eg not “you can do anything” (because that’s simply not true) but “you are worthy of getting there with the correct effort and focus”

Yes but basic aptitude and ability are essential too. E.g., most people have no hope of ever becoming classical concert soloists no matter how much effort they put into it.

I don’t agree. Basic aptitude and ability can come with practice. having a natural ability doesn’t automatically mean you will be the best.. it does, however, give one more motivation to be the best.

What about reward for hard work, my son whose in Year 12 this year works extremely hard and the school noted this and arranged for him and six or so other students to received a paid for breakfast at a restaurant, he also earne himself $200 for his hardwork last year in English.

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Date: 10/03/2015 14:19:17
From: Bubblecar
ID: 691374
Subject: re: Narcissistic Children

Arts said:


Bubblecar said:

>I think we should be allowing our kids to accept that they are ‘worthy of any position – should they put in the necessary effort to get there’ eg not “you can do anything” (because that’s simply not true) but “you are worthy of getting there with the correct effort and focus”

Yes but basic aptitude and ability are essential too. E.g., most people have no hope of ever becoming classical concert soloists no matter how much effort they put into it.

I don’t agree. Basic aptitude and ability can come with practice. having a natural ability doesn’t automatically mean you will be the best.. it does, however, give one more motivation to be the best.

Without the required natural ability, there are many achievements that would simply be too improbable no matter how hard one tries. Most people realise this and so don’t waste monumental efforts on extremely difficult tasks for which they’re not suited.

And of course there are many creative achievements that are totally dependent on the individual having a creative sort of mindset. Or sporting achievements that require a sporting mindset, etc etc.

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Date: 10/03/2015 18:14:51
From: SCIENCE
ID: 691498
Subject: re: Narcissistic Children

SSB

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Date: 10/03/2015 18:18:00
From: Michael V
ID: 691499
Subject: re: Narcissistic Children

SCIENCE said:


SSB
That has lots of meanings. Care to share which one?

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Date: 10/03/2015 21:43:44
From: wookiemeister
ID: 691602
Subject: re: Narcissistic Children

I invented the question mark

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Date: 10/03/2015 21:45:10
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 691605
Subject: re: Narcissistic Children

wookiemeister said:


I invented the question mark

Why.

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Date: 10/03/2015 21:45:37
From: wookiemeister
ID: 691606
Subject: re: Narcissistic Children

Peak Warming Man said:


wookiemeister said:

I invented the question mark

Why.


why indeed

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Date: 10/03/2015 21:48:01
From: wookiemeister
ID: 691609
Subject: re: Narcissistic Children

I think I first became of my brilliance as I was busily rolling my first manager into an old carpet I found on the side of the road

when you are using carpet to transport people you should avoid any kind of thick underlay or shag pile – they are a devil to move thanks to their weight and natural ability to absorb water – thus making them heavier (the last thing you need)

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Date: 12/03/2015 08:07:21
From: Divine Angel
ID: 692164
Subject: re: Narcissistic Children

Bubblecar said:

“For instance, when they are criticised or feel humiliated, they tend to become aggressive.”

Anecdote:
When I was in pre-school, I absolutely hated this one particular girl but couldn’t remember why. Years later, when I was in year 7, I met a girl and one day, we were talking about pre-school and I discovered she was the girl I hated. Turns out my dad had told me I was the prettiest girl in the world and her dad had told her she was the prettiest girl in the world. Obviously we can’t both be the prettiest… so I hit her for lying.

Bubblecar said:

“The questionnaire has items like, ‘my child is more special than others’, ‘my child is a great example for others to follow’,” Brummelman says.


Sometimes, that’s true. I wonder if bogans would answer yes to both questions without being sarcastic? It’s their children who tend to wear clothing announcing how awesome their parents are, so one would think it goes both ways…

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Date: 12/03/2015 08:13:11
From: roughbarked
ID: 692166
Subject: re: Narcissistic Children

Divine Angel said:

Anecdote:
When I was in pre-school, I absolutely hated this one particular girl but couldn’t remember why. Years later, when I was in year 7, I met a girl and one day, we were talking about pre-school and I discovered she was the girl I hated. Turns out my dad had told me I was the prettiest girl in the world and her dad had told her she was the prettiest girl in the world. Obviously we can’t both be the prettiest… so I hit her for lying.

Sometimes, that’s true. I wonder if bogans would answer yes to both questions without being sarcastic? It’s their children who tend to wear clothing announcing how awesome their parents are, so one would think it goes both ways…

I can’t recall ever hating anyone. At best I’ve only ever been hamfisted at defending myself and usually fail.
Sometimes one can get brand new designer label stuff at St. Vinnies for $5

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Date: 12/03/2015 08:44:47
From: transition
ID: 692168
Subject: re: Narcissistic Children

>Turns out my dad had told me I was the prettiest girl in the world and her dad had told her she was the prettiest girl in the world. Obviously we can’t both be the prettiest… so I hit her for lying.

there is though what drove or motivated the need for comparison at all (or intense comparison), which can be a number of things, and then too fueled by proximity.

half of so-thought ‘civilization’ seems driven by contrast, comparison, relative perspectives, which frankly is the seat of envy, jealousy and such, and who needs those knobs tweaked upward in sensitivity by social environment and more broadly culture.

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Date: 12/03/2015 11:18:59
From: Cymek
ID: 692189
Subject: re: Narcissistic Children

In regards to high intelligence it’s seen as wrong to brag or give praise to those that possess it, but often perfectly fine to act like a spoilt brat or diva if you are good at sports or are actor. Whilst I understand the media overhype or distort the demands and actions of celebrities they often get away with behaviour that anyone else would get labelled as being a prick.

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Date: 12/03/2015 11:22:41
From: Arts
ID: 692191
Subject: re: Narcissistic Children

Cymek said:


In regards to high intelligence it’s seen as wrong to brag or give praise to those that possess it, but often perfectly fine to act like a spoilt brat or diva if you are good at sports or are actor. Whilst I understand the media overhype or distort the demands and actions of celebrities they often get away with behaviour that anyone else would get labelled as being a prick.

do they? usually when they behave badly, the media calls them on it.

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Date: 12/03/2015 11:23:12
From: bob(from black rock)
ID: 692192
Subject: re: Narcissistic Children

Cymek said:


In regards to high intelligence it’s seen as wrong to brag or give praise to those that possess it, but often perfectly fine to act like a spoilt brat or diva if you are good at sports or are actor. Whilst I understand the media overhype or distort the demands and actions of celebrities they often get away with behaviour that anyone else would get labelled as being a prick.

10/10, “ but why is it so?”

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Date: 12/03/2015 11:24:34
From: Cymek
ID: 692194
Subject: re: Narcissistic Children

Arts said:


Cymek said:

In regards to high intelligence it’s seen as wrong to brag or give praise to those that possess it, but often perfectly fine to act like a spoilt brat or diva if you are good at sports or are actor. Whilst I understand the media overhype or distort the demands and actions of celebrities they often get away with behaviour that anyone else would get labelled as being a prick.

do they? usually when they behave badly, the media calls them on it.

True but studios/teams seem to minimise it instead of saying do it again and your out and we’ll sue you.

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Date: 12/03/2015 11:25:48
From: furious
ID: 692197
Subject: re: Narcissistic Children

“Cousins was driving slowly and was contacted on his mobile phone by police officers who were concerned his vehicle might have been stolen.”

I find it funny that the police had his phone number…

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Date: 12/03/2015 11:26:19
From: furious
ID: 692199
Subject: re: Narcissistic Children

Yeah, wrong thread, etc.

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Date: 12/03/2015 11:27:06
From: Arts
ID: 692200
Subject: re: Narcissistic Children

Cymek said:


Arts said:

Cymek said:

In regards to high intelligence it’s seen as wrong to brag or give praise to those that possess it, but often perfectly fine to act like a spoilt brat or diva if you are good at sports or are actor. Whilst I understand the media overhype or distort the demands and actions of celebrities they often get away with behaviour that anyone else would get labelled as being a prick.

do they? usually when they behave badly, the media calls them on it.

True but studios/teams seem to minimise it instead of saying do it again and your out and we’ll sue you.

yes, that’s the job of the PR agent.. to downplay bad stuff and up play good stuff.. (Unless you are PR for the Kardashians – they seem to work o the premise that it doesn’t matter why, as long as we are still in the news) of course some PR’s enjoy pushing the ‘bad boy’ image.. rich tapestry… they still get charged, face courts etc (Winona Rider, lindsay Lohan etc) but they do have ‘sway’ more so than someone who is not rich and famous

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Date: 12/03/2015 11:30:56
From: furious
ID: 692204
Subject: re: Narcissistic Children

Just look at that Jeremy Clarkson. Allegedly offending people left right and centre but the bosses kept on giving him one more chance. It took him lashing out at one of the bosses for him to be pulled up. Time will tell if they give him one more one more chance…

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Date: 12/03/2015 11:32:23
From: kii
ID: 692208
Subject: re: Narcissistic Children

furious said:


Yeah, wrong thread, etc.

Ooo….I don’t know. Without reading the whole of this thread or really knowing Ben Cousins…just taking a stab in the dark here…I think it’s apt :P

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Date: 12/03/2015 11:33:46
From: furious
ID: 692209
Subject: re: Narcissistic Children

Actually, I think you’re probably correct on that score…

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Date: 12/03/2015 11:35:39
From: btm
ID: 692211
Subject: re: Narcissistic Children

furious said:


Just look at that Jeremy Clarkson. Allegedly offending people left right and centre but the bosses kept on giving him one more chance. It took him lashing out at one of the bosses for him to be pulled up. Time will tell if they give him one more one more chance…

Over 500000 people have signed an online petition to reinstate him.

Looking at him reminds me of steering a horse-drawn carriage: you’re always looking at a horse’s arse.

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Date: 12/03/2015 11:41:12
From: Cymek
ID: 692212
Subject: re: Narcissistic Children

“It’s children who feel they are better than others, but they also demand constant attention and admiration from others,” says Brummelman, from the University of Amsterdam.

This is interesting as doesn’t our modern social media world do the above, constant attention and admiration from others for any and/all banal posts on Facepants, Shitter and so on.

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